Hello! Just wanted you to be aware that the Original Bear mattress specs seems to have changed. When I asked a rep, it took several tries, but it now has a memory foam layer that is 2 inches, next layer is 2 in of polyfoam, and then 6in of base foam all ranging from 3.5-1.8 lb densities. He said the ILD ranges range from 9-22ILD. He would not give specifics on which layer had what. Hope this helps as I have been seeing a lot of formualtion changes happening on these mattresses and it must be hard to keep up! haha
Your site has been so informative as I continue my search for the perfect mattress for me so I hope this new info is helpful to someone too! I just got some information on the Brooklyn Signature as well with these specs. I think this is where that would go in the Forums? I apologize if its in the wrong place and I can remove it if so 
Medium Base to Top
1 Inch Base Support Foam 1.8lb
6 Inch Ascension Coil (Caliber Edge)
2 Inch 3.5LB 28ILD Energex
2 Inch 3.5LB 18ILD TitanFlex
1 Inch Quilt Foam w/Jones FR
Signature Brooklyn Bedding Stretch Knit Cotton Fabric Tack & Jump Quilted Top
Firm Base to Top
1 Inch Base Support Foam 1.8lb
6 Inch Ascension Coil (Caliber Edge)
1 Inch Transitional Foam
3 Inch 3.5LB 28ILD TitanFlex
1 Inch Quilt Foam w/Jones FR
Signature Brooklyn Bedding Stretch Knit Cotton Fabric Tight Quilted Top
Soft: 1 Inch Base Support Foam
6 Inch Ascension Coil (Caliber Edge)
2 Inch 3.5LB 18ILD Energex
2 Inch 3.5LB 13ILD TitanFlex
1 Inch Quilt Foam w/Jones FR(Fire barrier)
Signature Brooklyn Bedding Stretch Knit Cotton Fabric Tack & Jump Quilted Top
Hi Goonieguy,
Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :).
Thank you so much for the updated specs and information about Bear mattress and the Brooklyn Bedding signature mattresses. Many of these companies are changing specs at least once a year, sometimes more. So any information is really good to get.
This is a good place for this info, we at TMU and considering some other organizational changes to the forum and I may move this post to its own thread as some of this information makes sense to have their own thread.
Thank you again and have a nice weekend.
Sensei
Hello!! I found out some more specs for the Dreamfoam Sanctuary 13in. Mattress!
6 Inch High Density Base Foam 1.5lb 36ILD
2 Inch Transitional Foam 1.8lb 20ILD
2 Inch Traditional Memory Foam 3.5lb 12ILD
3 Inch Copper Graphite Memory Foam 3.5lb 11ILD
Stretch Knit Cotton Cover
Hope this helps!!
Hi goonieguy,
Thank you for both your posts on the Bear mattress and the post on the Brooklyn Bedding sanctuary 13-inch mattress. This is always great information for TMU consumers and great for us trying to provide transparent information in a world of dubious information. We are in the process of double checking all changes you mentioned and will shortly update the spec change in the appropriate places on TMU for easy reference.
Thanks again and have a great weekend.
Phoenix
It’s my pleasure! For whatever reason I have discovered I love beds and all of the info that goes along with it. The truthful info at least thank you for helping me cut through the marketing BS as I seek to help others in their quest who may not care for research as much as I!
I’ve been reading a lot of background material on this site and here’s my question:
We have been sleeping on a Sleep Science 9" Talalay Mattress from Costco for 5 years. It has a 3" layer of ILD 19 and a 6" bottom layer of ILD 32. We have loved it, but it turned out to be defective and we need to replace it now. We could always replace it with the same mattress, but there seem to be so many other options that cost less using the same materials. I called Talalay Global (the sole U.S. manufacturer) and they said the Talalay they supply to all the mattress firms is pretty much the same. So, if I find an online company that has the same specs as the Sleep Science mattress, can I expect it to feel the same? If most of the companies in the Expert list get their raw materials from the same manufacturers, should the mattress feel the same? The implication is that it doesn’t work that way, but I can’t understand why. Thanks!
Hey ahuritz,
Welcome to the forum :).
Thanks for the post, it’s a really good question, and a lot of people have asked this in the past. It just should “feel the same”…and it never does! Now it can feel very very similar to some people here are the main reason why;
- The cover construction and method of manufacturing. The Sleep Science - did it have a zipper cover with zipper on the bottom of the mattress? Other beds have a “tape edge” where one sews the top panel to the sides - this style will feel much firmer. Or maybe, like Arizona Premium…a veteran knowledgeable latex trusted memberwho uses latex layers and a zipper cover, with a zipper located at the top of mattress, I believe. Or Zipper on bottom of cover.
Then the fabric choice and th FR choice used in the mattress will affect the feel. Someone using a 330 GSM fabric and someone else using a 600GSM…different feel. Wool vs other FR fibers, how the FR layer is applied…etc.
And Cover size; if a company is using covers that are 80 x 60 inches and another has a cover that is 79.5 x 59.5 inches but will stretch…totally different feel— same latex.
The Latex itself made by Talalay Global, a high-quality manufacturer, still has a “range” for 32 ILD, all ILD’s so “technically” you could have slept on a 17ILD over 30ILD, but all within normal manufacturing ranges…but different feel. I could go on, but I am sure you get the picture, If you want to know more, I can send you to other links on TMU that explains it in more detail.
Talk to Latex Experts, like Ken, and they will know what to do.
Thanks again and good luck.
Sensei
Hello again!! i wanted to update you all on the specs for the Layla mattress! This is directly from the website Faq’s!
The Layla mattress uses a core foam with a density of 2.0 pounds. The convoluted air flow layer which supports the soft side has a density of 1.8 pounds giving you a softer feel. The Copper Infused Memory Foam (on both sides) has a density of 3.5 pounds.
Firm side 1in 3.5lb memory foam
Core Foam: 2.0 lbs poly foam
Softer side support layer 2in. 1.8 lbs polyfoam
Softer side comfort layer 3 in 3.5lb. memory foam
Hi Goonieguy.
Thank you, as always for posting updated specs about the Layla mattress. It’s always helpful for consumers to have this information, and I am glad that Layla is being transparent with their specifications.
Thank you!
Phoenix
You are welcome! I find it funny really that this is something I enjoy doing in my spare time 
Hi Goonieguy,
That is really funny, don’t worry I won’t tell anyone…oh wait …is this a public forum? This is why we love avatar names on forums!!!
Phoenix
I apologize if this isn’t the right way to post my questions, but I didn’t see a way to post a new topic and this topic seemed to closely match what I’m asking.
I’ve slowly been building my own latex mattress and I’m looking for (I think) a recommendation for a base layer firmness. I’m a 5’10" 160 lbs side sleeper. I currently have:
2" 14 ILD Talalay (still able to be returned)
3" 20 ILD Dunlop
3" 30 ILD Dunlop (still able to be returned)
When I place this setup directly on my foundation, I think I can feel the metal bars of the foundation and they create a pressure point on my hips. This seems to be worse in the center of the bed, so I’m wondering if one of my latex layers is softer/more worn in the center.
I’ve also used this setup on top of a flipped over Leesa mattress (polyfoam base on top), which seems to be lacking in support. Again, this is worse in the center of the bed. Until last night, I thought this was due to the Leesa, but now I’m leaning toward the 20 ILD Dunlop being worn out after only a year of use, but I still need to test this some more.
I’m unable to sleep on the latex+foundation setup (I tried this last night) and the setup with the Leesa mattress seems to be lacking in support. I think I need an additional base layer to replace the Leesa. Would another 3" 30 ILD Dunlop topper be a good choice or should I get something firmer? How would the firmness of a 38 or 44 ILD topper compare to the firmness of the foundation itself?
A sales rep from one of the MU partners recommended I just add an other 3" soft layer to my current setup, but that didn’t sound right to me. Would anyone else second this advice?
If it helps, here’s the progression of how I’ve been finding a mattress:
Leesa - far too firm
Leesa + 20 ILD Dunlop - much better, but still a little too firm
Leesa + 20 ILD Dunlop + 14 ILD Talalay - something seems off here, but not sure what. Possibly not enough support.
Leesa + 20 ILD Dunlop + 14 ILD Talalay + 30 ILD Dunlop - again, I think it’s not supportive enough
Leesa + 20 ILD Dunlop + 30 ILD Dunlop - I think a bit too firm
20 ILD Dunlop + 14 ILD Talalay + 30 ILD Dunlop - very uncomfortable - i can feel the foundation under my hips
Thanks!
hey theshrewdfool,
Welcome to the mattress forum:).
Thanks for the great post, and the detailed information of the process you have used so far. Well done.
Just a couple of questions, maybe you mentioned it, how long have you had the Leesa? Which foundation did you get? Which Leesa platform bed are you referencing? Is the latex covered or foam only, what is the fabric you use, or is it just three toppers over the Leesa? And three over the foundation? Then the mattress pad? or sheets? What size mattress? Is the latex a blend, or 100% natural? The Dunlop latex from where? Natural or Blended?
Thanks for the post, I have some thoughts and probably some questions?
Plus soft ild’s have to be above firmer, generally speaking, 14 ild has to be the very top or send it back for 19ild, it’s useless if you don’t use it on top. But let me know the other info, as it affects the feel of your set up, all these parts.
Thanks,
Sensei
I’ve had the Leesa for 3.5 years (queen size, and there was only one type available when I ordered it). I purchased it after suffering an injury and being in a lot of pain, and thinking my saggy Sealy wasn’t helping. I fell for all the marketing about it being the best bed in a box, but it never became comfortable for me. The pain from the injury (mostly SI joint) became much less severe/consistent a few months after I added the 20 ILD 3" Dunlop topper sometime last year.
I opened the Leesa up a couple of weeks ago and flipped around the interior mattress components so the support Polyfoam layer is on top. I thought that if some of the lack of support I felt was due to wear on the Leesa comfort layers, this might help.
I have a Zinus foundation with 3" spacing between slats (Amazon.com). Until May of last year, I had it on the foundation that came with my old Sealy mattress, which did not have 3" spacing. I have it on a frame that came with the Sealy mattress I bought in 2008.
The only thing covering the latex right now is a hypoallergenic protector and my sheets, so the latex is not fully enclosed. I plan to buy a stretch mattress cover when I’ve finalized all my layer choices. I’ve just been putting the toppers right on top of the Leesa mattress, and last night, right on top of the foundation. Would a wooden board be necessary, or is the 3" slat spacing good enough? Does that 3" spacing rule apply even for the narrow steel beams in the foundation I linked, or is that more for wider slats?
The 3" 20 ILD Dunlop was purchased last year on Amazon (I think it’s from sleeponlatex and all natural). The 2" 14 ILD is blended Talalay and was purchased 3.5 weeks ago from Mayer Bedding and the 3" 30 ILD Natural Dunlop was purchased from SleepOnLatex 2 weeks ago (with a TMU discount code).
I have been using the 14 ILD topper as the very top layer. I did think of another question regarding the 2 Dunlop layers: how different should 20 ILD and 30 ILD feel when compressed between your fingers and thumb or between two palms? I feel very little difference. SleepOnLatex did confirm for me that the new topper I have is indeed a medium firmness (it had Q3M labels on the box and plastic wrap). Unfortunately, I don’t have any of the packaging for the year old topper available. Is the difference only really noticeable when laying on it? The 14 ILD Talalay feels very different from the other two layers.
Hey theshrewdfool,
Wow, awesome information, thank you for adding the detail. It helps a lot.
Noted on the original Leesa, I totally understand…if you only knew about TMU then :). Not surprised with the improvement of the Leesa with a 3" topper, plus much better pressure relief needed with pain.
This makes perfect sense, you never know, but best to build up some layers on top of the foam. You may end up buying a block of 1.8- 2.0lb polyfoam at some time. There are some decent online foam companies that can have this.
It’s perfectly fine to have the latex like this, it helps me to understand more about the feel of the mattress. As we reference the 3" spacing, most of the time it is based around wood foundations. It is especially an issue with all latex mattress. The wooden board would be ok, but it does have some complaints about retaining moisture, not breathable. Still, not a bad idea to see if it helps, but it will firm up the overall feel of the mattress noticeably when you add the wooden board.
I like the Zinus products, I own two of them myself, and if you end up polyfoam base, with latex layers, it will be ok. But the thinner metal bars, it makes me think the 3" spacing is not as applicable on this product. Just my instinct. If you do more latex…more weight, then you may want a 1-2" layer of polyfoam to work as a stabilizing base. But for your trials…it will work fine.
The latex is an interesting question, technically speaking, you should be able to lay your hand on it and tell the difference between 20 and 30 ILD. Hand, fingers, etc., sitting on it. Its hard to weigh toppers but it “seems” like they are very similar…which is still ok.
Dunlop and Talalay aren’t directly comparable in terms of firmness using only ILD numbers because there are several factors that can affect how soft or firm a mattress (or an individual layer) feels besides just the ILD of the material (see post #4 here ) and Dunlop and Talalay that are the same thickness and ILD won’t feel the same in terms of their firmness for most people because they have a different response curve and compression modulus (how quickly a material becomes firmer as you sink into it more deeply). There is more about the difference between Dunlop and Talalay in post #7 here.
The ILD of different materials or different types and blends of latex also aren’t always directly comparable to each other (see post #6 here ) partly because ILD can be measured in different ways and partly because ILD isn’t the only factor that affects the softness or firmness of a material so again using the ILD or other specifications of a particular layer or combination of layers as a reliable indication of how any mattress will “feel” or how firm it will feel to you compared to another mattress with a different combination of layers can sometimes be more misleading than helpful.
It is hard for me to say, the fact is that latex is not the “exact same” feel throughout the core, and with Dunlop process latex, latex liquid is extruded into a 6" height queen size mold, and then heat is added, and the vulcanization begins immediately. So depending on the specific company, the “center” of the core can be the last part of the piece to fully cure…and if some pieces are sold not fully cure, sometimes latex can soften / breakdown in the center. I have no idea without looking at the latex, but the SOL latex I know is top quality, the 20ild…you are a little less sure about.
Can you feel the difference in the center of the latex topper with your hand? Also, you can put an object…like a bowling ball (or another object), and see if it sinks more for either topper and for the center of the topper…if that is something you would want to try…this is poor mans ild test :).
Thanks, let me know if I missed anything.
Sensei
Are there any memory foam mattresses that meet the 4 PCF memory foam density and 1.8 PCF memory foam density for below $900?
It seems it’s really difficult to find in 2019.
I have reached out to many companies on the list and the only ones that still seem to meet the requirements are Zotto and Silk & Snow. I am interested in Zotto but it is at the max end of my budget and apparently tends to sleep softer. I am hoping for a firmer memory foam.
I was really hopeful on Performasleep but even they have bumped down to 3 PCF memory foam in the 2nd layer. Same with Novosbed that no longer offers their 5 PCF memory foam.
Does anyone have any other suggestions? Why are mattresses moving towards a lower density and hiding their specs?
Hi! I’m looking for more information/reviews about the Bedgear M3 mattress. In theory, it sounds like a great way for my wife and I to agree on a mattress even though we disagree about ideal firmness, but it’s so new that I wasn’t sure it was worth the risk. (We did try it at our local Macy’s.) I can only find a few online reviews and I’m a bit skeptical whether they’ve been curated to make the mattress seem better. Any thoughts/experiences?
(Apologies if this is the wrong thread for this. Moderators, please feel free to move it if there’s a more appropriate place.)
Hi minah,
Welcome to the Mattress Underground Forum :).
I am sorry you are having difficulty finding the right combination of 1.8lb and 4.0lb memory foam. I assume you are looking for a queen size mattress? These companies are moving to lower density products mainly for cost reasons, they hope to de-spec the mattress and still keep it at a similar price, they also want to not communicate these changes as they know consumers will call them on it in forums like these.
A $900 queen with very good durability is actually a difficult product to find, as normal poly foam costs have risen in the past 3-4 years.
Here is a thread with information about Zotto Sleep. I also think you should look at our trusted members as they have more transparency with these companies.
I know that that Ghostbed, as you can see on the Ghostbed TMU page has 2.0lb foam for the base and they use 4lb memory foam as a comfort layer in two of their three mattresses.
Thank you and let us know if you have more questions.
Sensei
Hi Endersgame,
Welcome to our mattress forum :). No worries about the post, I moved it to its own thread, as it will be good to gather info here.
The M3 is still very new as it was only introduced in April 2019. As I peruse their website, I am seeing the same thing you are, by the photo it seems like they use different coils firmnesses as the base, and you can order 4 different firmnesses and one can do this for each side. Then its comfort layer and then cover…breathable, air flow, etc, etc.
So what are the specifications of these coils? Comfort layers? I click on the Certifications and Specifications and this is all I see:
[quote]CERTIFICATIONS
All foams are CertiPUR-US® certified:
○ Made with safe materials (no heavy metals, no formaldehyde)
○ No harmful odors or emissions
○ Made without phthalates regulated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission[/quote]
I see from the photos that the comfort layer is micro coils in the middle and foam on each side of the micro-coils, but it is important to know what these are. Have you asked Bedgear? Or asked the retailer?
We at TMU would have a hard time seeing if there are any weak links without this information. Let us know if you find out any more spec from them.
Thanks,
Sensei