You are correct the 3" of 2.5lb memory foam is lower than our durability guidelines. So we at TMU would be cautious about the long term durability of these memory foam components, assuming all you quoted information is correct.
Here’s the thing, I have felt many samples over the years of some great 2.5 and 3.0lb memory foam, and I know some of these mfgrs. make these beds and they feel great to a lot of people, but long term durability is sometimes sacrificed when trying to hit a certain cost and feel. It’s not a bad bed, but for high BMI’s TMU advises caution.
I was looking at the Novaform Serafina Pearl Firm mattress sold by Costco. The breakdown of the layers are:
2’’ Gel memory foam - 3lbs density
3’’ Air channel foam - 5lbs density
9’’ Support foam - 2lb density
The bottom two layers seem to be of high quality but I’m wondering about the first. I know TMU guidelines recommends against 3lbs or lower density for an inch or so of memory foam, so I’m wondering if the memory foam layer in this mattress would be low quality for someone with an average BMI/weight?
12.7 cm (5 in.) high-density bio support foam
7.6 cm (3 in.) high-density trizone bio plush comfort foam
5.1 cm (2 in.) natural gel latex (Talalay Latex)
2.5 cm (1 in.) MDI CocoBreeze Foam
Unfortunately the densities aren’t available. When I asked Springwall directly they told me, “the foam densities are high because this product is roll packed and it needs high density foam to bounce back”. I thought that was odd because there’s a lot of roll packed mattresses that use low foam density so that’s not necessarily true, and I thought Springwall had a reputation for being transparent about their mattresses. I also asked whether the mattress is firm or medium-firm because the product page I linked states both (description sates med-firm while the image states med).
They told me to ask the retailer if I wanted more info. Again, I found that odd since as the manufacturer they should be able to clarify that for me and indicate foam densities.
Anyways, would you or phoenix be able to speak to this mattress? I know in the past Phoenix has had contact with some managers from Springwall, so I thought maybe he would have some insight into this mattress.
Thank you for the question. Regarding the Novaform Serafina mattress at Costco, it’s great to see that you are referencing the mattress durability guidelines. Well done on your knowledge and understanding of these guidelines. I took a look at the Costco Novaform Serafina Memory Foam mattress and the specifications listed on the website are as follows:
“Top layer: 5.1 cm (2 in.) layer of new ComfortLuxe® Gel-Pearl for cooling comfort and support
Middle layer: 7.6 cm (3 in.) layer of LURAcor™ foam which cradles less and pushes back more, for individualized weight distribution and support, and a firm feel
Bottom layer: 22.9 cm (9 in) layer of support foam offers durability and deep support”
Were you able to confirm from Novaform / Costco that the densities you mention as the exact densities? Generally speaking, the densities listed in your post for average BMI would be right on the border. Depending on the type of sleeper one is, very active sleepers tend to wear out mattresses faster than ones that move around less. The other factor for the “product” you listed would be the ILD/IFD’s of the 5lb and 3lb comfort layers. Of course, one’s budget comes into play here also, for some people they are ok with
Regarding the Springwall product, all of the Costco links for this product are no longer listed. Also the same issue for the Springwall website. Neither site lists Natural Luxury 11 inch product anymore, so it’s difficult to make any specific judgments.
You are correct that many lower density foams do bounce back, but I can’t fault Springwall for touting the use of high-density foam for durability. Maybe they are trying too hard to link this to roll packing mattresses, but it seems like it’s one of those things people would say over the phone, almost like they have an answer to questions they think people are worried about.
Regarding the picture saying medium and the description saying medium - firm, it can be a little tricky as Costco does sign off on the photos, as it is the manufacturer that usually provides the marketing materials, but this could be an administrative error, unfortunate yes and unlikely in this case that they are trying to “pull one over” on consumers.
Thank you again and let us know if you have any updated information on the specs.
I am having problems finding the right mattress and I just discovered this website. I am not sure I am posting at the right place…
A couple of years ago a bought a firm coil mattress on Costco’s website. At first it was fine but then it became too firm. I eventually bought a memory foam topper, but it was too hot, so I put a wool blanket and egg shells on top to make it cooler… it kinda worked and tolerated it for a couple of years but last fall I decided it was enough.
I bought the Endy mattress, it was kinda good, liked the feel of the mattress, no odor, but I felt pressure points under my hips and decided to try another mattress.
I tried the Silk and Snow. I still felt a bit of pressure points but less. I didn’t like the feel of the mattress (gel) and it still smelled strong even after a couple of weeks. I returned it.
Just got a Plush Sealy mattress (Sizemore) from Costco I like the feel of the mattress but it’s way too soft. It doesn’t support me and gives me lowerback aches. I will return it.
I think I might try the Novosbed medium or buy the same Sealy mattress but the firmer version. Just wondering if you have any input? I am a bit tired of this, the amount of info, reviews, websites… is overwhelming… it is so hard finding the right mattress.
I have a tendency to feel pressure points under my hips. I am a man, I live in Montreal, my bmi can range from 21 to 25 and I have a neck injury (if that changes anything).
I only tried mattresses in a box and Costco because I can return them without any fees and I actually avoided stores because sometimes you are limited to one exchange, need to pays fees and/or are forced to buy their expensive protectors.
Welcome to The Mattress Underground! If you have narrowed down your next selection to the Novosbed medium and the firmer version of the firm cucoon by Sealy, you are comparing 2 very different options. As a former member of this site, Novosbed had met our stringent criteria for quality and component transparency. Addionally, you have post-purchase options with Novosbed to adjust the firmness that you do not have with Sealy. Given that you do not have any qualms about purchasing and returning mattresses, but anticipating that after so many attempts you seek to find something ideal, higher quality and integrity may weigh more heavily in your next decision. If you are looking for a Canadian company that is a current TMU trusted member and has similar products, you may want to consider MFC, https://en.memoryfoamcomfort.ca/
Hope this helps!
Is there any truth to the rumor that Avocado natural cotton covers actually contain polyester? Michael of Design Sleep told me that, but I have not been able to confirm it. Why would he tell me that if it’s not true?
I do not have any first-hand knowledge regarding this particular cover. . It will say what the construction of the fabric is on their law tag. Avocado does have la lot ofl inks to certifications on their site.
Regarding the GOTS certification, textile products only need to have a minimum of 70%, quote below from the webiste - The Standard - GOTS, so its makes perfect sense that it may have some polyester, it’s really hard to get the “stretch” needed on knitted fabric with just cotton.
Looking for a queen mattress for two, and it’s looking like Brooklyn Bedding as they have a pretty good sale going on right now.
What’s the biggest difference between the “Signature” and “Bowery Hybrid”? The price gap is about $100, and it seems like the only difference is the top layer material?
We are both mostly side and some front sleepers, so I’m wondering if there’s any reason to get the Signature over the Bowery Hybrid.
Thanks for the post. What did Brooklyn Bedding tell you the difference is? There as been some discussion of these new mattresses since Q4 2018.
Below are my cut and paste from their website. The signature has the 2" Titanflex, which is one of the newer memory/poly foams. You can read more about the newer generation of new generations of polyfoams here.
The signature has the 2" Titanflex and 2" Energex foam, and the Bowery hybrid just has the 2" comfort foam (whatever that is) and also foam in the quilt package. Signature also markets some temperature regulating qualities. Clearly, there is a fairly big difference between these two products. I have not slept on them side by side. Which one is better for you is an entirely different question. Have you tried these mattresses?
Signature:
Offered in three levels of firmness to let you decide the level of support you need
Features a 2" top layer of patented TitanFlex™ foam, combining all the contouring properties of memory foam with the responsiveness of latex
Designed with a 2" layer of firmer transitional Energex™ foam for deeper compression support
Engineered with a 6" base of up to 1,024 individually encased Ascension™ coils for increased support and decreased motion transfer
Infused with cooling TitaniumGel™ to moderate your body temperature throughout the sleep experience
Finished with a 1" high density foam base for added durability and reinforcement of individual coils
Bowery Hybrid
Offered in a universal, medium firmness that balances just the right amount of pressure point relief with optimal support
Features a 1" layer of quilted, gel memory foam that resists body impressions and provides optimal cooling comfort while you sleep.
Designed with a 2" layer of comfort foam to create a gentler transition to the mattress core.
Features open cell technology for increased airflow and breathability.
Engineered with a 6" base of up to 1,024 individually encased Ascension™ coils for increased support and decreased motion transfer.
Finished with a 1" high density foam base for added durability and reinforcement of individual coils.
I have not tried them as there’s not a showroom for them near me, however, in contacting support, they pointed me towards the Bowery Hybrid as they claim it’s more suitable to combo sleepers, which my partner and I would likely qualify as.
We are coming from a 6ish year old Tempurpedic with gel top that has starting to feel too firm, causing shoulder and hip pain. So a softer hybrid mattress made sense after I stayed at a relatives house and slept on a more traditional innerspring and slept great.
Ultimately, the price would come out to about $150 cheaper for the Bowery Hybrid which has me about ready to pull the trigger on it. I’ve heard good things about Brooklyn Bedding and had no such luck finding a similarly priced, quality, hybrid mattress.
Thanks for the response and the additional info, re; Tempurpedic. It is so hard to comment on soft plush and firm, as everyone’s definition is relative to each individual. Let us know if you have any additional questions and give us an update after you have some time adjusting to your new mattress.
Hi,
Ive been lurking here for a while digesting a lot of information along the way. First, I want to thank Phoenix and all the very knowledgeable admins/mods/users that spend time helping other members. It really helped me to be able to look past the deceiving marketing stuff of big box stores and online sellers.
I was looking at the bed in a box available in Canada and came across what appears to be yet another newcomer: www.aleasleep.com
I cant find reviews outside of their site/facebook and paid bloggers. Here are the specifications that Ive been able to get from them. Couldnt get the IFD/IDL unfortunately. On their Serinity model, there is only 3" of base layer which is far lower than most other mattresses ive seen. Would that be a problem? And beside that we do not know the density of their proprietary AleaFoam do you see anything wrong with this mattress? I’m a side/back sleeper 25 bmi.
Thank you!
Serinity
Cover - 100% Organic GOTS (The Global Organic Textile Standard) cotton
3" layer of 3rd generation memory foam which is comparable to a 4 lb High density foam
2" layer of 2 lb open cell Alea foam™ which is a proprietary blend of materials that mimic new generation memory foam. Zoned support in the middle to provide extra support for your hips
2" transition layer of 2 lb bio foam which is a soy based foam
3" base layer of 2 lb support foam which is a firm bio foam
Sanctuary
Cover - 100% Organic GOTS (The Global Organic Textile Standard) cotton
2" layer of 100% Organic GOLS (Global Organic Latex Standard), 10.5 lb, 3 zoned Latex
2" layer of 3rd generation memory foam which is comparable to a 4 lb High density foam
2" layer of 2 lb open cell Alea foam™ which is a proprietary blend of materials that mimic new generation memory foam
2" transition layer of 2 lb bio foam which is a soy based foam
4" base layer of 2 lb support foam which is a firm bio foam
Thank you for the kind words, and for the post. I’m am glad that the information here was useful to you and that you were already able to apply it in your search.
With the bed in the box market getting saturated one would think that the new online mattress ventures would slow down. A quick search of posts on TMU and I do not see any information or comments from other consumers commenting on Aleasleep so I am glad that you were able to get some information about the densities and layering … I’d be also interested to know ILD/IFD.
A couple of quick thoughts as I peruse their website.
The cover is 100% GOTS certified organic cotton, but they do not provide any certification link and any other information. I suggest you ask for this, as these certifications are easy to document, and it should be very clear and very easy for them to send you. The latex is 100% organic. GOLS certified, which is great…. but again, no specific information about the manufacturer or any copy of the certification. The “about us” is very vague, so we don’t know who is the owner, only that they have 100’s of years of mattress experience?
I really can’t say I see anything “wrong” with this mattress, the densities that are listed are all in ranges that fit into our durability guidelines, I am sure you have already read this section. Technically speaking, there is no problem using 3" base layer at 2lb and then using the second 2" layer of 2lb foam above it. I am just speculating here …these 2 base layers must be a different ILD/IFD which may the reason why they choose to do this in some progressive layering system. I am not sure what the “10.5lb” latex is either… might it be the weight of the actual latex topper?
I see the “office” is in Toronto but generally, it looks like some information is missing or left out for some reason, and to be on the safe side I’d also like to know where is the mattress manufactured and where their foams are sourced.
You may also want to scan through our membership listing here for Canada based members or US members who ship foam mattresses to Canada… which of course being our trusted members means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. Also, if you have questions, feel free to discuss with either Mario, from MFC, or with Laura from Dormio both leading Canadian online bedding retailer & manufacturer expert members of our site.
I’d be interested in learning about your progress or any new information that you may find about the two options you mentioned.
Not sure this is the right place for this question, but I’m looking for a mattress for my two-year-old. The bed-frame isn’t a bunk bed, but it has similar constraints to a bunk bed for mattress height. Maximum height I think would be safe would be 8 inch, but something shorter would be ideal. Preferably either Canadian or US made.
I like the idea of a memory foam bed-in-a-box mattress, but the options I’ve seen online haven’t thrilled me… the ones “recommended” elsewhere online were the Lucid 5&6 inch or the Zinus 6 inch. Being dirt-cheap and manufactured in China makes me a little hesitant about these models.
I’ve also found a PolySleep Origin (made in Canada) and Novaform (made in US), both 8 inches tall. This is a little taller than I want, but if they’re better quality then that’s worth it for me.
Anyone have opinions on these models/manufacturers or any other mattress that might be better?
Thanks for the post, I will start a new thread for kids beds, it’s always a good conversation for people to get information about. Totally understandable about the height and 8" and below sounds about right.
My short answer to your general question is take time to check out some of the trusted members, many of them have “kids” mattresses or just some lower cost lower height mattresses. We know our members compete well in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. All members use high-quality, safe materials at fair prices so they would certainly make a great quality/value choice.
I wouldn’t say anything negative about Lucid and Zinus, they are well known Chinese mattress companies making and selling 100,000’s of mattresses. Generally speaking, they make mediocre quality memory foam/polyurethane foam mattresses. Neither of them is unethical or any other shady things some people say and think about Chinese factories.
It would be important to make sure the Chinese foam manufacturer is well known and on the list of CertiPur certified foam manufacturers. CertiPUR certified foams are:
✓ Made without ozone depleters
✓ Made without PBDEs, TDCPP or TCEP (“Tris”) flame retardants
✓ Made without mercury, lead, and other heavy metals
✓ Made without formaldehyde
✓ Made without phthalates regulated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission
✓ Low VOC (Volatile Organic Compound) emissions for indoor air quality (less than 0.5 parts per million)
Thanks, let me know if you have any more questions.
First off, thank you for providing such comprehensive information on the mattress buying process. A little background, I purchased a Brooklyn Bedding BME 3 years ago. It seemed like a quality mattress and my wife and I enjoyed the feel of it. It was okay with motion transfer but sleeps hot. That said, the biggest issue is that indentations have developed after 3 years which are now causing back pain. It seems strange that this would occur since we are average weight and had the proper box spring (purchased from BB) supporting the mattress. We previously had a i comfort that also developed indentations and sagging around the midsection area and we had to get rid of it after two years.
We are now looking for a new mattress. Our three main criteria are durability, sleeps cool, and provides good motion isolation. We have narrowed down our search to the Nest Alexander Hybrid, the Kiss, and the Casper. I recognize that Casper is not a trusted member but they indicate that they provide added support in the middle of the mattress which is where the indentations have occurred on our last two mattresses.
Can you provide insight on which mattress - Nest Alexander Hybrid, Kiss, or Casper Mattress would be best for the attributes that we have identified as important to us- durability, sleeps cool, and motions isolation?
Hi BG Cat,
we have recently been added to TMU as a trusted member.
You mentioned that you are looking for a mattress that has “durability, sleeps cool, and provides good motion isolation”. I would encourage you to take a look at our bed system as well since these are some of the major points that this bed system is designed for to address.
Durability - We use a very high quality natural Talalay latex from RadiumFoam (vitatalalay) which has great durability. The minimum life is 13-15 years with only very little fatigue. The latex may well last a lot longer but there is no guarantee because no substances were added to extend the natural life of latex. But we know fro our Swiss partners that the mattress may well last 20+ years for some people. The wood used for the slats and frame is untreated solid wood and should outlast yours as well as the next few generations.
Sleeps Cool - This is a very common issue that I hear about particularly by men but also women in menopause. Latex has an open cell structure which allows air to easily flow through the mattress. Secondly our latex from RadiumFoam is not made as one solid block, but instead has hundreds of little pin holes in it. This further enhances airflow as well as increases the ability to take a person’s body shape much better.
Good motion Isolation - the way we solve this problem is by providing an independent working foundation (i.e. our slat system) for each side of the bed. As you know this is important because no two people are alike, and therefore they need their own independently working support system.
Finally one thing you mentioned, though only indirectly, is the support that a bed provides - “the biggest issue is that indentations have developed after 3 years which are now causing back pain”
It does seem a rather common issue that many mattress materials cannot sustain holding a persons weight for very long without starting to fatigue. The way we solved this issue is to cut down on the mattress material (in our case latex) and replace it with a material that can hold weight without fatigue - wood. The elephant in the room then is that wood is a very hard material and does not scream of comfort! Here the trick was to turn the solid piece of wood into a flexible surface. And you can see that in our video on the profile page.
You also mentioned “had the proper box spring (purchased from BB) supporting the mattress”. My background is civil engineering and I find it highly questionable why anybody would suggest using metal coils in their bed to begin with. The reason I am saying this is because the quick rate at which metal coils fatigues. Coming from Europe we have long gotten rid of metal coil bed and supports because of the fatigue factor (among other potential problems). So that being said, it is no surprise to me that within a relatively short period of time you notice a decrease in sleep quality.
Anyways all that being said, feel free to check out what we have and let me know if you have any questions about it. I tried to make our site as a ‘here is the information, now you can decide what you want to do with it’.
Just saw an ad for Cocoon by Sealy for the first time. And so it begins. I wonder if they can really take over the mail-order memory foam market just by having a famous name.
That’s interesting now they have an ad out. Sealy, which is really Tempur Sealy, actually introduced the Cocoon mattress in August of 2016, but they must now be doing more promotion on this line.
The bigger news is that Tempurpedic introduced one of their mattresses as a bed in a box mattress. Time will tell how well they do.
