SOS! I am in so much pain. Exhausted. Desperately need to choose a good mattress! Severe Rheumatoid

Hi Bcgirl -

My experience with Dunlop is that the softest Dunlop isn’t soft enough for me without spending another several hundred dollars on a topper. You surely can’t extrapolate from my experience that you’d have the same response to it, so by no means am I trying to say that Dunlop wouldn’t work for you - all I’m saying is that it isn’t working for me without a featherbed on top of it at the moment (I haven’t yet decided what will end up on top of the mattress long term, but something will, for sure). Big difference in what I bought and what you’re looking at already is that you’re planning on having wool on top - I’m sure that would change the feel of the latex.

I would hope you have a chance to test out in person both Dunlop and Talalay latex. I wish I had done so. Wishing I’d done something differently always reminds me of the old nursery rhyme about how if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride. Me, I’d just need a really big stable in which to house all my horses. :blush:

Hi Clawdia,

It seems to me that you made a good quality and value choice with your mattress that was close enough to your needs and preferences that you only need some fine tuning which is “normal” with many mattress purchases.

I understand that you are disappointed and you were hoping that the mattress would be perfect as it is without having to purchase anything else to use on top of it but it’s not uncommon at all that a mattress needs some fine tuning and with your medical conditions and circumstances and the fact that each person’s experience is unique I think that your experience would be in the minority and really not that relevant to others. It also appears to me that you made a choice that was close enough to your needs and preferences that only minor fine tuning is needed which is the goal of good testing.

I also understand that you feel that you are helping by posting these “regretful” comments to many others that are considering soft Dunlop as a preference choice … but it’s really not necessary to include your comments about your disappointment each time (implying that they may also be disappointed when in fact it may be a great choice for them) … especially when so many others in your situation would be thrilled with having a mattress that only needed the addition of a featherbed (or perhaps even a wool topper) to be a great match for their needs and preferences. There are people who struggle for years with similar circumstances to yours without finding a solution to their sleeping issues that is as close to their ideal as you have already discovered.

When you first purchased your mattress you were “suggesting” to many others that they consider the same mattress you purchased because it was so “perfect”. When you developed hip pain a month later you are now “suggesting” (through your implications and expressions of regret) that they may want to look in other directions or may “regret” their purchase. In both cases it’s important to understand that your (or anyone’s) experiences on a mattress are unique to you and your specific circumstances and challenges.

While you do mention that “you can’t extrapolate from my experience” … you then go on to imply otherwise just by the act of posting these types of comments and just like reviews that are only based on personal experience and opinions (see post #13 here) … this can “taint” the mattress buying experience for others who don’t yet know to trust their own personal experience by casting a “seed of doubt” for others where your mattress (or something similar) may be perfect for them … with or without anything else on top of it.

It almost appears that you are using other threads as a means to express your frustration more than as a way to inform and I would ask you to be a little cautious with this so you don’t unduly influence other purchase decisions with your own unique and somewhat challenging experiences.

Phoenix

You have my sincere apology for having said anything that I shouldn’t have.

I think this is an excellent resource, and certainly wouldn’t want to do or say anything to take away from the good information that is available here.

Again, I’m sorry.

Hello again Phoenix

I considered the Personal Value Equation again and that definitely has a lot of merit!

Looking at the online retailers, the one that seems to have a quality product that could suit our needs is www.mattresses.net
The owner recommends a split firm/medium core in the queen ultra plush latex and then adding a 3 " soft talalay topper. The cover would be cotton and it sounds like we would have to put everything together. There will be a wool pad on top of latex levels. The price would be around $1600 for queen and then maybe $130 for delivery to a nearby U.S. Shipping address I use often. Returning would involve return shipping costs but they have a 60 day comfort guarantee. I am somewhat nervous about ordering online without trying it first but that is a very good value compared to want we have been looking at. I still would need to find out what mattress duties are for import but as it’s being made in the U.S., my guess there would be little to none.

Does this sounds like it has promise and would work for us?

One more quick question: when I contacted Halstead in Calgary, it was recommended we have mattress body support mapping done before we make an online purchase. Do you know anywhere in the lower mainland/Fraser valley who has a system to do this?

Hi Bcgirl,

[quote]I am somewhat nervous about ordering online without trying it first but that is a very good value compared to want we have been looking at. I still would need to find out what mattress duties are for import but as it’s being made in the U.S., my guess there would be little to none.

Does this sounds like it has promise and would work for us? [/quote]

Mattresses.net is one of the members here and this would certainly be a good quality/value option. There would be no duty but of course there would be tax across the border and if you use a courier then there is normally a brokerage charge as well (but not if you bring it across yourself).

A manufacturer is generally the one that is most familiar with the specific options they have available and how well each one tends to “match” different body types and sleeping styles based on the averages of their customers that are similar to you so unless your own personal testing on similar mattresses indicates something different then their suggestions would usually have the highest odds of success. Having a split core is also a good way to accommodate different needs and preferences and in this case because the top layer is the same and the core is different the “feel” of the transition between the sides would be less than if the top layer was also split.

You certainly have some good quality/value options you are looking at (locally and online) and I’m looking forward to hearing about what you end up deciding and which one you decide is the best match for your personal value equation. :slight_smile:

Most of the pressure mapping systems are specific to a certain line of mattress and aren’t really relevant to mattresses as a whole which have different constructions. They also only measure surface pressure (which you can often feel in your own personal testing) but don’t provide input into alignment or how the pressure is distributed in the deeper body tissues or include the differences in physiology between people (pressure affects different people differently). There are a few more comments in post #2 here and post #4 here about pressure mapping systems.

They can be a useful tool for stores that have them available and where the results can translate into the specific mattress you are most interested in but they wouldn’t be the primary way I would make a purchase decision or be that useful if the mattress you are buying is different from the one you tested and the testing results can’t be easily “translated” into a mattress with a different design.

Phoenix

Hi Clawdia,

Just to make sure there is no misunderstanding … I greatly appreciate and value your questions, comments, and contributions to the forum and there is certainly nothing to apologize for.

The only reason for my caution is that one of the main goals of the site is to provide some “balance” between often complex and conflicting information and to help each person make their decisions based on their own personal experiences, preferences, and research (the difference between “how” to choose vs “what” to choose) and on the pros and cons of each of their choices rather than other people’s experiences (good or bad).

There are so many variables involved in each person’s purchase decision and preferences that sometimes too many posts that only include one person’s experiences or “regrets” can have an undue weight or influence for new members that may not yet fully realize that their own personal experiences may be completely different from anyone else.

So “no problem” :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Phoenix,

I can’t thank you enough for all your guidance and insight.

That was good information on the pressure mapping. I won’t pursue that further as we don’t live anywhere near Calgary and there have been no local options that have offered it for their beds.

I finally had a look at NW Sleep and a long call with the owner. I think we will head down there this weekend and check them out. If they have something for us it would be good. Otherwise we will likely order from mattresses.com or the Discount Foam Store with Majestic still in the running.

Our local furniture company also just ordered in a bed from Renelle that has a 8" Dunlop firm core and a 2" Talalay topper with a 4.5 pound all wool cover. He estimates the price to be upwards of $2500, so that will be a factor for sure. I’m not sure that we really would need a support layer that thick and undoubtedly that will add to the cost.

I never had a clue that buying a mattress could be so complex, but we really want a worthwhile investment that will keep us both comfortable and sleeping as well as possible for many years to come. The biggest challenge for me is having my shoulders in a soft zone and my hips not sinking too much.

I will keep you posted! Thanks again!

@bcgirl,

You might take a view of the FloBeds vzone. It might give you some options to tune your mattress that you wouldn’t otherwise have. Your remark about wanting special treatment of your shoulders vs hips reminded me of this. Alternatively, it might just be unnecessarily complex for you and not help your decision any :wink:

Also, I know the latex I have is zoned firmer in the middle area for hips vs softer upper area for shoulders. I don’t think all latex is the same in that respect (although it could be), so something you might ask of mattresses.net or others.

Hello again Phoneix

Today we drove down to NW Sleep in Delta. The owner was helpful and not pushy in the slightest.

I have been in more pain each night on a bad night so when we tried the latex pillow top called The Vale, I felt like I had landed in a cloud!

It has a 6" Ergonomic 5-zone 100% Talalay latex core
2 inches of 100% tala lay latex in the pillow top
4 inches of 100% Talalay latex in the support layers
(3) 3/4 " layers of high density foam - he couldn’t give me more detail about that.
They have a cotton cover on the showroom model but are switching to Bamboo.
The queen set is $2050.

We went back and forth between this and another few mattresses for quite a while but spent most of our time on this one. It seemed to keep us in good alignment and gave relief at the pressure points which are so sore right now - shoulders and hips. I was concerned this might be too soft for my husband but he insists he finds it comfortable and supportive.

We thought we had finally found our bed! But I find my upper back and shoulder exceptionally painful tonight. I’m not sure what it’s from. There is no "comfort warrantee " on this bed which is a bit disconcerting.

There was another model in the warehouse, I think called The Whistler, which was 100% natural Talalay but no pillow top. It felt okay, just a bit firm for me but now I wonder if a 3" Talalay topper or wool could make a difference? Thinking about what I’ve learned that you can only make a mattress softer not harder. The support core is important.

We are eager to make a decision, have been at this mattress search for several weeks now and have covered lots of KMs. Certainly would appreciate your input here, and if there are any red flags, please let me know!

Thanks, Phonenix

Thanks, dn. they look good too!

Hi Bcgirl,

These are all high quality materials and there are no weak links in the mattress. The 3/4" layer of quilting foam is less than “around an inch or so” which I use as a guideline for lower density or unknown layers so this would be fine. It’s also good value for a queen set.

Every difference in construction, layer thickness, materials, or components in a mattress can make a difference yes which is why good testing can be so important. As you mentioned, if two choices appear to be close to equal it’s usually a good idea to choose the firmer of the two but I would sleep on a mattress for at least two weeks before considering any changes (because of the break in and adjustment period and because it’s easy for a night or two’s experience to be an anomaly). A 3" soft latex topper on a mattress that was already close to being a good “match” in terms of PPP would be on the risky side in terms of alignment because it would add a lot to the thickness and softness of the comfort layer and put you further away from the support layers. Wool can certainly add some pressure point relief and also has a “relaxed” surface “feel” and good temperature regulation that many people like and do very well with.

I don’t know why your shoulders or hips are sore but I would take your time and make sure as much as possible that your testing for PPP is as close a reflection of your actual sleeping experience as possible. I would be cautious about buying a mattress if you suspect that it is somehow related to your soreness until you’ve ruled out the possibility to your satisfaction.

Phoenix

Hello again

We can only do our mattress shopping together on the weekends so we are still on the hunt.

Our local family owned furniture store has brought in elements of a latex bed for us. The base is 8"firm Dunlop. The comfort layer is 2" of 100% Talalay and it would be completed with a 4.5 lb. organic wool layer and organic cover. All of the latex is certified organic GOLS and USDA, manufactured by CocoLatex in India. Interesting that the certification says “valid until October 2013” .looks like it the latex was manufactured in July of 2012. The bed would be made by Renelle mattresses.
The comfort layer supposedly has an ILD of 25. I find it just a wee bit too firm while it would be good for my husband. Holds us both straight with no immediately obvious pressure points. The mattress is $2100. Would include delivery and removal of our old mattress. No comfort warrantee.

It needs to be a bit cushier for me, I think. Would it be better to increase the thickness of the talalay or decrease the ILD? Does it sound like a good value for the quality? I’m thinking its a bit on the high side. Are you familiar with CocoLatex? Does it matter that the foam is already almost a year and a half old?

Hi Bcgirl,

This would likely be a 6" layer and a 2" layer (latex molds are generally about 6" thick) but it really wouldn’t matter because your testing is more important than the specs of the mattress as long as you know the specifics of the material.

Again I would focus more on your own experience than on the specs so you don’t take on the challenge of trying to design your own mattress based on specs. I would tell the retailer or manufacturer that you wanted something softer and more pressure relieving and then let your body decide whether the softer alternative worked better for you. The “how” behind why it was softer would be less important but having said that I would probably tend to go with a lower ILD although this would also depend on the specifics of the other layers and on your body type and sleeping positions. When you are testing mattresses locally then your own actual testing and experience is always the most important thing to focus on and the specs are secondary (and likely to do more to confuse than help).

The value of a mattress depends on what else is available to you, what you are comparing it to, and your own personal value equation, (value is relative to each person, area, and situation in other words because a mattress isn’t a commodity which is sold by the pound). It would also depend on the size of the mattress you are purchasing and on whether it’s a set or a mattress only but if it’s a queen or larger then from a materials perspective it certainly seems reasonable to me.

Yes … they make high quality Dunlop latex and they are one of the latex manufacturers that has GOLS certified organic latex (see post #6 here and post #2 here). Their US website is Latex Global.

No it would be fine.

Phoenix

It was taking too long for our local company to get in the mattress we were interested in, so we ended up buying an “Ultraplush” mattress from mattresses.net

They were kind enough to send the Talalay 3" topper in advance. That helped with some pain relief for me. We have several concerns after receiving the rest of the mattress but I’ll address those another time. The real problem for us is the mattress cover.
The comfort level is mostly okay while sleeping on the Talalay latex. Firm for my husband, medium for my side with the 3 inch topper and a SnugSleep premium wool overlay we purchased separately while waiting for everything to arrive… However, when we put the mattress cover on, it completely affects the firmness and feel of the mattress. One night on it was unbearably painful for me, and although I’m assured it will “soften” and stretch out over time, my body can’t handle that. It is a “bamboo” cover that has Jamoma wool in it as a fire barrier ( and is sewn up “tightly”) which I guess is a fire regulation in the US but not here in Canada from what I understand. The owner wants to have a simple cotton cover made which won’t affect the comfort, but I am concerned it won’t protect the mattress either from moisture or dust and if we keep it, we want this mattress to last.

Do you have any suggestions?

Hi Bcgirl,

Using a wool quilted cover vs a thinner stretch knit cover has some “tradeoffs” and some people prefer one and some the other. It can slightly reduce the ability of softer latex to contour to your body but it also provides some temperature regulating benefits, a little bit less resilient sleeping surface by “damping” the resilience of the latex, and as you mentioned it can also be used as a fire retardant barrier in the mattress.

The additional snugsleep topper will compound the effect as well and can further reduce the contouring effect of the latex but provide more of the benefits of a wool sleeping surface.

It’s also true that the cover will loosen once it is broken in.

It may be worthwhile unzipping the mattress cover to see if this has an effect as well.

Do you mean the owner of Mattresses.net?. A stretch knit cotton cover will allow the latex to contour more but you would also lose the benefits of sleeping on the wool (outside of your snugsleep topper of course). If the cover is thick enough to be suitable for use with a mattress and protects the latex from light and ozone (which are the main “enemies” of latex) then it will be fine and your mattress protector (or snugsleep topper if you decide to use it as a mattress protector) will protect the mattress from moisture and from the skin particles that dust mites feed on.

If you want additional protection from dust mites because of more severe allergies then you can also use a thin mattress encasement but latex is already more dust mite resistant than other types of material (see post #2 here).

Phoenix

That’s good advice to try and unzip the cover. That should loosen it up. Will give that a try tonight and maybe leave off the SnugSleep for tonight and see how it goes. For me, if I had realized that the comfort of this bed would be so greatly affected by the construction of the mattress cover, I thought the Jamoma wool would add another layer of softness but I was wrong. I wouldn’t have ordered it in retrospect. My body just requires the gentlest cushioning.

I’m trying to find out more about the proposed replacement cover but the holidays have been getting in the way. All I heard was that it would be a simple cotton cover with a zipper.

Sleepclean.ca offers 100% ORGANIC COTTON LINENS AND BEDDING
ANTI-ALLERGY BEDDING COVERS which looks like top quality, well-made, good warrantee. That could be an option too with the SnugSleep topper. What do you think?

Do you think it’s concerning at all that one part of the mattress arrived dirty, obviously dropped on the ground and the two sides of the mattress have an uneven length? The cut is off by an inch and a half. I was told just to clean off the dirt with soap and water and there was no response to the unevenness issue. I want to like this mattress but I don’t want to wonder about the quality either even though I know they have good reviews. Maybe that kind of thing happens more often though and it’s not a big deal because consumers don’t usually see the inside of the mattress?

Hi Bcgirl,

[quote]Sleepclean.ca offers 100% ORGANIC COTTON LINENS AND BEDDING
ANTI-ALLERGY BEDDING COVERS which looks like top quality, well-made, good warrantee. That could be an option too with the SnugSleep topper. What do you think?[/quote]

They appear to be good quality to me and with a pore size of 4 microns would be an effective anti dust mite or bed bug encasement that would be more breathable and likely cooler than a membrane type encasement but this is not made to be a mattress cover … just a mattress encasement/protector to protect against dust mites and bed bugs. You could certainly use it in combination with the snugsleep but it wouldn’t replace a mattress cover.

How I felt about the stain would depend on the specifics, which component was stained (I’m assuming you mean the cover?), and on how I felt about keeping it vs returning it. If it is enough to affect you then I would certainly talk to them about it and then use your “best judgement” about your best course of action (keeping it vs exchanging it for another cover). If it’s the latex that is discolored then it’s normal for latex to have areas of discoloration when it is manufactured (which isn’t a stain) and this wouldn’t be an issue for me.

The difference in length is almost certainly because of how the mattress was placed into the cover because latex is very “stretchy” and can appear to be longer or shorter depending on how the mattress was assembled and placed inside the cover. It’s usually a matter of “waving” it into position so that both sides are even. It’s not uncommon at all for one side of a split latex core to appear to be longer or shorter than the other at first even though they were the same length when they were manufactured.

All the latex they use in their mattresses are high quality so there is certainly no need to wonder about the quality of your components although I would certainly talk to them if you have any concerns until they are resolved to your satisfaction.

Phoenix

It was one of the rolled up sections of the support layer of the mattress that was dirty, not the cover. It was definite dirt, not a stain.

What would be an example of a mattress cover that is “thick enough to be suitable for use with a mattress and protects the latex from light and ozone”? But would also not affect the comfort of the latex?

Hi Bcgirl,

This is where dealing with a knowledgeable and experienced manufacturer becomes important and rather than trying to research and learn about all the specs of each type of fabric and still not have a definitive answer I would just follow the recommendations of the manufacturer you are dealing with who will know from their own experience which materials are suitable for latex.

Phoenix