Struggling to Identify Patterns - seeking guidance

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
1

To start, thank you for this fantastic resource. I never knew how many people struggle so much with finding quality sleep until the last few years and it is amazing that you took the time to help so many people.

I am seeking guidance to help narrow my search. For my situation, I mostly sleep alone as a single guy 5’10’’ ~180 lbs, and I mostly sleep on my sides, and very occasionally on my back for a few hours. I think I have a broad chest, ribs and shoulders relative to my waist and hips. But I also store most of my fat right around my stomach and chest area. So I often am either not sinking in my shoulders and upper body enough, my waist and stomach doesn’t feel lifted up enough, or my hips sink in too much. I have a herniated disc from an injury and a rotator cuff injury that I’m healing and strengthening, so these areas are particularly important for me to support and to relieve pressure. BTW, I have been a serial returner. I have probably been through 10+ beds in the last 4 years. I have returned so many online beds it is ridiculous. Right now I am sleeping on a very firm mattress with 2" latex medium topper from Amazon. I have to sleep with tons of pillows and I toss and turn throughout the night.

So far I have identified a few mattresses that get some things right but seem to be missing other things. I’ve found:
I like:

  • Cool temperature tops
  • More of a dead thud feeling - dense foams seem to provide this best
  • Plush or super plush for shoulders
  • Zoned support
  • Ones that “push up” on my stomach area to keep my body aligned

Dislike:

  • Springiness
  • Latex in the comfort layer with Innerspring directly under in the support layer
  • Buckling column gel
  • Non-responsiveness to movement if too much memory foam

Mostly okay with: :

  • Foam in comfort layer with Innerspring in support layer if no springiness
  • All latex with dense dunlop latex in support layer
  • Latex over dense foam support layer

In terms of comfort and pressure relieving for my shoulder and upper ribs area, I found I really like the Super Plush or Eurotop softness. But I’m concerned that over a full night’s sleep that my hips will sink in too far or my stomach area will not be “pushed up” enough.

Here are a few mattresses I like most so far, with notes about what worked and what didn’t… I forgot to get the specs on the first few and I couldn’t find them online.
These are for comfort:

  1. MLily Fusion Luxe Ice-Cover Hybrid
  • Loved the cool feeling
  • Sunk in a little - felt really good on shoulder - soft and comfortable
  • Lumbar support more responsive but still didn’t fill in “gap” all the way
  1. Posh + Lavish - All latex dunlop base and talalay comfort layer (also had an additional 2" talalay topper to make it even more plush)
  • Not enough lumbar support but super soft and comfy
  1. Revenue by Corsicana - Revitalize Plush Renue Collection
  • Love sinking in feeling
  • Relief on shoulder and upper chest
  • Not enough lumbar support
  • Movement was just right

These for support:

  1. Casper Nova (All Foam Base)
  • Has zoned lumbar area that felt like it was “pushing up” on my stomach area and like that it was keeping it in line
    -Specs were not that detailed and I couldn’t find more online:
    - Top layer of Airscape plush velvety soft premium foam with preforations
    - Second layer of Airscape memory foam - 3 ergonomic zones - softer under shoulders, firmer under waist
    - Third layer of Zoned Support Pro - 7 support zones to reinforce 2nd layer
    - Fourth layer is durable base foam
  1. Aireloom San Mateo Streamline Plush
  • Also felt like it “pushed up” on my stomach and kept my body more aligned
  • Plush and felt very soft too on my shoulders
  • Specs are too detailed and difficult to understand
    - Quit Layers (Ultra conforming Knit w Tencel; Hi/Loft FR Fibers; Super Soft Quilting Foam; Convoluted Foam; True-Stretch Cotton Tricot; Silk/Wool Fibers)
    - Comfort Layers (Plush Talalay Latex; Luxury Firm Aireluxe Foam; 8lb Cotton Upholstery Layer; Airbraid Performance Fabric; Microcoils 17 Gauage)
    - Support System (HD Encased Perimeter Suppport; 8" Super-Flex Individually Wrapped Coils 15 Gauge; 842 Coils
    -Seems like it is just lots of foam above latex foam above an innerspring

These also were somewhat of a good mix but not perfect:

  1. Perfect Bliss Latex Tobago Pillow Top (Mattress Dealzz Utah Brand)
  • Pushed up a little bit on my stomach to keep it in line but not great
  • Mostly soft but a little too hard on my shouler
  • Support felt better than the other all latex I tried in this brand - this one I sank in and was held up the most - so that it filled in the “gaps” the best, mostly between my stomach and hips area
    - Quilt Package (2" super soft 15 IFD foam)
    - Pillow Top Insert (2" 24 IFD Gel Talalay Latex)
    - Latex Support and Comfort Zone (1" 19 ILD talalay latex; 1" 32 ILD Talalay latex; 3/8" zoned 32 IFD talalay latex lumbar panel; 1" 40 ILD talalay latex)
    - Foam Core Base (3" 24 IFD 1.8lb; 4" 36 IFD 1.8lb; race tracked with 60 IFD)

And the last one
2. Nectar Lush 12" Profile

  • Again a little too hard on my shoulder
  • Not a big fan of the non-responsiveness of memory foam but this one was okay
  • Liked cooling feeling
  • Pushed up a little bit to fill in the gaps, but concerned it wouldn’t hold throughout the night
    - Superior Cooling Cover
    - 3" coolflow visco with aquacool 3.5lb density
    - 2" energex 2.5lb density
    - 7" supportive & stabilizing base foam 2lb density

Like I mentioned above, all of these had something I liked and something that didn’t seem to work too well. The best was probably Casper Nova because of the “pushing up” and zoned support while still being soft on my shoulders, but it really wasn’t as soft as I would like. I don’t see a clear enough pattern to know how to continue to narrow my search from here. Does someone see a pattern or can provide some direction before I go test a bunch more beds?

2

Hey cmurr, Welcome to the Mattress Underground :slight_smile: ! Thanks for your question.

Thanks for your kind words on the site, they are much appreciated cmurr. Phoenix’s many years of tireless research and sleepless nights while helping others to find better sleep have resulted in a tremendous resource benefitting us all. Let’s get to your study.

Thanks for your helpful details outlining your personal stats and preferences and for providing a thorough analysis of your sleep history. Wasn’t going to call you out on the “serial returner” status, lol but 10+ beds in the last 4 years is a quite a bit of mattress swapping. Undoubtedly, you’ve experienced a great deal of discomfort and frustration with constant experimenting; however, it seems from the research you have presented here that you are working earnestly to identify appropriate materials and constructions for your personal preferences.

[quote]So far I have identified a few mattresses that get some things right but seem to be missing other things. I’ve found:
I like:

  • Cool temperature tops
  • More of a dead thud feeling - dense foams seem to provide this best
  • Plush or super plush for shoulders
  • Zoned support
  • Ones that “push up” on my stomach area to keep my body aligned

Dislike:

  • Springiness
  • Latex in the comfort layer with Innerspring directly under in the support layer
  • Buckling column gel
  • Non-responsiveness to movement if too much memory foam

Mostly okay with: :

  • Foam in comfort layer with Innerspring in support layer if no springiness
  • All latex with dense dunlop latex in support layer
  • Latex over dense foam support layer

In terms of comfort and pressure relieving for my shoulder and upper ribs area, I found I really like the Super Plush or Eurotop softness. But I’m concerned that over a full night’s sleep that my hips will sink in too far or my stomach area will not be “pushed up” enough.[/quote]

Excellent research provided here; you are sorting through qualities of materials in terms of comfort and support that you prefer over those you have had less success with. For other consumers who may be following your research, I highly recommend a read of these Phoenix articles detailing how materials, layering and construction play an integral role in which mattress is best suited for your preferences: “Mattress Specifications You Need To Know”, “Mattress Comfort Layers: Overview”, “Mattress Support Layers: Overview”, and “Putting the Layers Together: Overview”. I would be curious to know more about what “did work”/ “didn’t work” from the online mattresses you’ve tried; is that research indicated in your comments above regarding “likes/ dislikes/ mostly okay with” or were those conclusions drawn from your recent site visits? Perhaps if you include a listing of the brands/ type mattresses that were ruled out vs. this list of recently tried mattresses, we could identify the patterns you want to focus on: a preference for a plush yet cool comfort layer feel (perhaps talalay latex comfort layer/s); responsive lumbar support system (perhaps dunlop latex or pocket coils); and so on. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, cmurr :wink: .

Thanks,
Sensei

3

Hey Sensei, great to see the responsiveness on here. Yes, finding something has been a protracted struggle and I am looking forward to moment it is over! In the past, I just laid on something at the store and if it felt okay I would get that one, to only return it a month later. Or I would just purchase any mattress online I hadn’t yet and see if it worked. I do not remember that other mattresses that well. The few I I do remember were:

  • Purple (did not like springiness)
    -Nectar (too soft for spine)
    -Tuft and Needle Original (too soft for spine)
    -There may have been a Casper Original in there too, but I’ve forgotten now

I do not know what I’m sleeping on right now. The Nectar was too soft for my spinal alignment and so I though sleeping on something firmer would help. What I’m sleeping on know was my Grandma’s old mattress, and it’s firm for my spine but really hurts by shoulders and ribs all night. I tried 1", 2", and 3" inches of latex foam toppers and the 2" was the best compromise, but everything still hurts and my spine isn’t in great shape. :frowning: Also, I tried an adjustable base bed to sleep in “zero gravity” … yeah, not for me.

So it is hard for me to compare what I tried in the past to what I recently tested. All the conclusions I posted were from recent visits, now that I have the information to differentiate what I am laying on thanks to this site!

I guess I am struggling with how to narrow down my selections based on what I’ve found so far, and finding a place that has ALL the construction and materials to make valuable comparisons. I’m going to get the specs on the few I mentioned before and test some based on your early recommendations. I’ll post in the next couple days and maybe I’ll have narrowed it down a bit more by then.

4

I’ve been browsing your site for a long time, and finally decided to become a member when I saw this post from cmurr. My wife and I were very happy with a Simmons Beautyrest Estate Pillowtop we briefly tried out in a mattress store many years ago. We actually ended up really liking this mattress and got many years of great sleep on it. A couple of years ago it became obvious that the mattress was starting to wear out, and we reluctantly began searching for a replacement. Reluctantly, because we were afraid we’d have a difficult time finding a mattress we liked as much, since it seems most mattresses these days are constructed differently and the quality of the major manufacturers has slipped considerably.
Long story short, we too have tried several different mattresses, and haven’t had any luck at all. I sleep on my side and stomach, and my wife on her back and side, she’s 5’3" and 125 and I’m 6 feet and 225.
Every mattress so far has caused her either shoulder pain(I’m guessing mattress was too firm), or back pain(maybe mattress too soft)?
I’m wondering if there’s a chance anyone could recommend a mattress that would be as close as possible to the original Simmons Beautyrest Estate Pillowtop since it seemed to have been the perfect mattress for us, but we can’t seem to find anything nearly as suited for us.

5

Hey Spike,

Welcome to the Mattress Underground :slight_smile: ! Thanks for your question.

[quote]My wife and I were very happy with a Simmons Beautyrest Estate Pillowtop we briefly tried out in a mattress store many years ago. We actually ended up really liking this mattress and got many years of great sleep on it. A couple of years ago it became obvious that the mattress was starting to wear out, and we reluctantly began searching for a replacement. Reluctantly, because we were afraid we’d have a difficult time finding a mattress we liked as much, since it seems most mattresses these days are constructed differently and the quality of the major manufacturers has slipped considerably.
Long story short, we too have tried several different mattresses, and haven’t had any luck at all. I sleep on my side and stomach, and my wife on her back and side, she’s 5’3" and 125 and I’m 6 feet and 225. Every mattress so far has caused her either shoulder pain(I’m guessing mattress was too firm), or back pain(maybe mattress too soft)?[/quote]

Congrats on your new mattress shopping journey :slight_smile: ! Thanks for including some of your personal statistics and sleep positions, those are helpful for better pairing you both with the types materials and mattress construction suited for your preferences. With your differences in BMIs/ sleep positions, there are varying materials and constructions to consider with regard to optimal pressure relief/ spinal alignment, you can read more of Phoenix’s research in article, “Determing Your Personal Statistics”, as well as “Mattress Durability Guidelines: How Long Will a Mattress Last?”. Without knowing specifically which mattresses/ what firmnesses have caused your wife’s shoulder/ back pain during mattress testing, there is no way for me to speculate what the source of those pressure point pains could be.

If you both were fans of the Simmons Beautyrest Estate Pillowtop mattress that now needs replacing, it sounds as you would like a more traditional plush top innerspring mattress. Simmons as well as most other SSB brands offer many ever-changing mattress “Collections” to their various resellers, making approximating similar constructions somewhat of a challenge. Since you feel so strongly about the Beautyrest you have enjoyed, I’m guessing that you have already reached out to the dealer who sold you that particular one? A few questions for you, Spike: what size mattress are you considering? Have you set a budget? What qualities did you both like best about the Beautyrest Estate Pillowtop? What firmness is it? Are you located in an area where mattress manufacturers/ retailers offer COVID safe shopping environments for mattress testing? Looking forward to learning more details as you have time… :wink: .

Thanks,
Sensei

6

Hey Sensei,

Got sick with Covid at the beginning of November, so had to take a break from mattress shopping. Just now getting back to it. I think overall for comfort I prefer a pillow top or plush, so my shoulders sink in. The struggle has been finding something with the right support. I tested several pillow top mattresses this weekend, and this is what I found:

  1. Sealy Hybrid Premium Silver Chill Plush (probably favorite for support and comfort so far)
    Here are the specs from the store but they are not close to detailed enough
  • 14" mattress height
    -Quilting: Chilltech High-Laft Knit Cover
    -Comfort: DuaChill Cooling System, Advanced Memory Foam (no thickness or IDL provided), Allergen Protect
    -Support: DuraFlex Coil Edge, StableSupport Foundation, Response Pro HD Zoned Coil System, and CustomFlex Coil System

I felt like this one really “pushed up on my stomach” as a side sleeper. I think it is the zoned support and possibly the CustomFlex Coils.

Do you have other mattress recommendations like this one?
Do you know where I can find the thinkness, coil count, IDL, etc. to make comparisons (since it didn’t come from the store or online)?

Also, I have tried so many all latex mattresses and just don’t seem to like them (I feel like I should because everyone raves about them, how comfortable and supportive they are, and the high quality). But I feel like they provide great support (by pushing up on my stomach as a side sleeper) but they always push too much against my shoulder. I’m concerned about going with an innerspring and foam mattress because they seem to get dogged on since they’re not latex. Sounds crazy maybe, but is it okay that I prefer a traditional innerspring and pillow top mattress? Maybe I’m missing something about latex. I just don’t want to end up with something I regret or low quality that I hate in a year or two.

7

Hey cmurr,

Thanks for your updates :slight_smile: .

So sorry to hear that you’ve been dealing with Covid but happy that you are getting back to good health, cmurr. Thanks for sharing your research details too; good job on the mattress testing and getting closer to identifying your preference for a more plush feeling mattress.

The Sealy Hybrid Premium Silver Chill Plush mattress features layers of Sealy’s proprietary memory foams with assorted cooling/ gel technologies over their proprietary zoned pocket coil support core, rated as a medium plush firmness. Other than reading that all foams used are CertiPURE US certified, no online component specifics are available for evaluating materials and construction, not a surprise given the brand’s nature for protecting their “secret sauce” ingredients. Unfortunately as a consumer, not having the details needed to evaluate a mattress’s long-term durability doesn’t help much with making decisions (and why you are here). While I cannot comment further without knowledge of the mattress materials’ specs, I can advise that if this is the one you are considering, continue to manage the due diligence process for your research. You can review and print these helpful mattress specification questions and store visit questionsfor further conversation during store visits. Also, as a self-identified “serial returner”, ask for and get in writing the store’s exchange and return policies, to avoid any hidden future return costs.

We do not make recommendations for specific mattresses (read more about why in this tutorial here , particularly point #4) or mattress brands unless they are thoroughly vetted Trusted Members of our site. Currently, there is no compliance standard for requiring a manufacturer to publicly disclose the exact specifications of their products (their process trademarks reflect their unique use and ownership), so if Sealy chooses not to disclose them, that is within their rights. If you can’t get the answers you seek from the showroom, you may be better off with a more “transparent” mattress purchase rather than continuing the cycle of “trial and error”.

In your initial post #1, you mention a preference for

[i]"-Cool temperature tops

  • More of a dead thud feeling - dense foams seem to provide this best
  • Plush or super plush for shoulders
  • Zoned support
  • Ones that “push up” on my stomach area to keep my body aligned"[/i]

These qualities are much in keeping with a memory foam hybrid. You would “sink into” a memory foam comfort layer, providing the “dead” feeling and little motion transfer, also further reduced when paired with a pocket coil support core. Latex over pocket coils can be a livelier feeling and is perfect for those who enjoy feeling “uplifted” or “sleeping on” a mattress; however, if that’s not for you, there is nothing wrong with that. When you have time, you may want to continue testing until you do hit that sweet spot of understanding whether it’s a traditional innerspring or pillow top mattress feel that you prefer. Also, keep in mind that your new, freshly manufactured mattress will not have the exact same feel as ones you test on the showroom floor, and that the type foundation, mattress coverings, linens, pillows, etc. in your sleep environment combined will all influence the ultimate feel you experience. Hope this helps and good luck with your continued research :wink: .

Thanks,
Sensei

8

cmurr- May I ask what mattress you ultimately landed on and how you like it? It seems we have very similar tastes and I’ve been leaning heavily toward the Silver Chill myself. Curious to hear if you found something that worked for you. Thanks so much in advance.