Swimming in info - please help. ECO-mattress hunting...or not?

Hi. I need a mattress and I’m currently overwhelmed with information.

I’m looking for advice on purchasing an Eco-friendly (natural fiber or low-VOC) latex or memory foam (<12") FIRM king size mattress. I like having some move-ability. Too much contour is a challenge for me when I sleep. Any tips on reputable companies? I’d hate to spend a lot on a mattress that will sag or need replacement in 5-7years but I really don’t like the idea of spending 1/3 of my life inhaling synthetic fibers and chemical off-gas.

I’m not strongly opposed to a good innercoil mattress either if it has some memory foam or latex technology on top but it seems the reviews aren’t so hot. Perhaps I’m just not looking at the right inner coil mattresses?

So basically I’ve saved up some money for a king size bed. My husband and I have shared a full for far too long. My husband likes extra firm mattresses which we discovered while living in Asia, practically sleeping on plywood. I prefer firm I suppose. When we went to Sleepys they essentially told us that firm wasn’t good for us and that we’d screw up our bodies if we kept buying firm. I’m a side and stomach sleeper 5’5" 130lbs. My husband sleeps on his back occasionally. 5’9 approx 160lbs. Neither of us like pillow tops but we both seem to like memory foam. My biggest issue with the memory foam mattress we have is that it’s too thin and sheets always wrinkle or slip off. I love nice linens so nothing is a bigger pet peeve than sheets that wrinkle or slip off a mattress. While researching I’ve started getting hung up on the off-gassing and VOCs. We have a baby who often ends up in bed with us by early morning. We attempt to be a plastic free/ low plastic household. I’m not so hung up on everything being plastic free but I prefer low to no VOCs when possible. Id really like a mattress that has a reputable certification from someone such as say, Oeko-Tex 100. I’m really disturbed by essentia from the posts I just read. Why don’t they get a reputable 3rd party certification if they claim to be transparent. Wouldn’t that solve the problem somewhat?

Would love to hear your advice.

These are the beds I’ve been researching:

(If you notice any I should avoid let me know please)

Vita-talalay
Bio green tempflow - Eclipse,Serene,Copia
Bed in a box -only medium to soft
talalay / natural latex.
Simmons comfopedic - no extra firm
Tempurpedic - 3000 to 3500
Tempur choice supreme - light
Tempur contour - highly conforming
Tempflow
Flobeds
Savvy rest
Magniflex

Hi lnr103,

The first place to start your research is the tutorial post here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choices. If you follow the steps one by one your odds of making a very suitable and durable choice will be very high.

The first step outside of gathering some initial information would be to identify the better retailers or manufacturers in your area and do some mattress testing to see which type of materials or types of mattresses you prefer so you can narrow down your options.

Any type of mattress can make a great choice as long as they are a good match for you in terms of PPP and you know the specifics of all the layers in the mattress so you can confirm it uses good quality and durable materials (in the comfort layers especially which are usually the first to soften and break down).

The weak link of a mattress (including innersprings) is almost always in the upper layers of the mattress, not in the support layers.

If you are looking at and comfortable with polyfoam or memory foam then I would make sure it is either North American made or certified by CertiPur for harmful substances or VOC’s. While some people may still be sensitive to some materials that have the CertiPur certification (there will be some VOC’s in any material) or for personal reasons wish to avoid any synthetic materials completely … for most people they would be “safe enough”.

Oeko-Tex is a little higher level and more stringent certification for harmful substances and is the most common certification for latex (synthetic, natural, and blended) although there are a very few memory foam or polyfoam materials that are also Oeko-Tex certified but they are mostly European.

For those who for personal reasons want to take on the more difficult challenge of researching all the complex and often misleading issues surrounding mattress safety in much finer detail or who may have a different answer to “how safe is safe enough for me?” than most people, then post #2 here and the other posts and sources of information it links to would be a good place to start.

I agree with you about Essentia and you can read more about my thoughts and discussion with them in this thread and this thread and posts #3 and #4 here. The information and claims on their website are misleading IMO and they are a manufacturer that I would be very cautious about considering.

Out of the list you mentioned I would tend to avoid Tempurpedic, Simmons, Bedinabox (see post #2 here), or any mattress no matter who manufactures it where you aren’t able to find out the specific quality of the materials that are inside it or where the quality/density of the materials are too low.

If you let me know your city or zip code I’d be happy to let you know of any of the better options I’m aware of in your area.

Phoenix

Hi Lnr103,

You might find some useful ideas of brands at thecleanbedroom.com (assuming you’re in the USA). They have one of the widest selections I’ve seen in one place of brand name natural or organic mattresses, which has many brands you listed and some you didn’t. It may give some ideas, which in certain circumstances might help you, or they may have a showroom near you.

That said, I’d follow Phoenix’s advice and start with the tutorial… Selecting a brand first is backwards and I only posted the above URL since if you’re like me you’d like to do some background learning.

Also, to your list you may want to add natural rubber Dunlop latex in addition to talalay.

Thank you Phoenix and dn. I’ve been reading more articles on this website all morning. Currently reading the mattress shopping guidelines and an article on the pros and cons of latex. Thank you. Very informative stuff. I live in Philadelphia 19147. Budget is between 1400-2400 for a king. Potentially a bit more if it makes sense.

I found it very helpful to identify which brands were available near me and go lay on them and then consider the options. We ended up buying a pure latex bliss and absolutely love it. We have had it for five months. It is totally worth your time to overwhelm yourself with info and make an informed choice. I share your concerns about plastic and chemicals and those concerns factored into my decision.

I saw that they have a firm pure latex bliss on sale online but I hadn’t done enough research yet. I’d like to shop around more and lay on more mattresses as well. Just trying to narrow down my options first. I have to go with my 1yr old so timing is limited in the stores. I’m glad to hear you like yours. Maybe I can find one to try in Philadelphia.

Hi Lnr103,

Some of the better options and possibilities I’m aware of in the Philadelphia area are listed in post #4 here.

Phoenix

Thanks Phoenix!
I’ve printed off your list of mattress warehouses in the Philadelphia area and hope to get to a couple this weekend. Have you heard of a store in Philadelphia called Hollandia or Duxiana? They have some good mattress reviews online but look like they could be rather pricey.

After searching and searching though your site I think I’m fairly certain we will like a natural latex foam mattress. Atleast we like the idea of it. Either a talalay or talalay dunlap mix? We were set on extra firm mattresses but we may be incorrect there. POssibly we just need more exercise and a medium-firm mattress for our fairly small (but lately weak) frames. So we will be open to the suggestions of a qualified salesperson at one of these shops (or here online).

Do you have an opinion on a Vita-Talalay? We have a bunch of laying on mattresses yet to do but I’d like to go in with a general idea and I’m trying my best to gather info while juggling my lovely attention seeking 1year old on my knee. :slight_smile:

I’ve made some notes in case we are steered in another direction: must have less than 1" low density polyfoam (meaning <1.8"), memory foam (meaning alb low density) or unknown foam.

With memory foam, thicker layers are not as good as thinner layers (<4" is better)

avoid all polyfoam in comfort layer (which is the top layer on the mattress).

If we are steered in an inner coil direction, pocket followed by offset are better. Aare there any you recommend with a nice natural latex memory type foam comfort layer??


1st off, do I have any of that right?

Secondly, do you think we will be able to find a king size (fairly eco-friendly) mattress we will like for under 2200?

Thank you so very much.

Hi Lnr103,

Hollandia used to be on the list but they don’t appear to be in business any longer in Philadelphia. They had some fairly interesting mattresses that were more European in design (with zoned layers that used different types of cutouts or surface modifications) but they were also quite pricey. Duxiana is in a much more premium price range and while they use good quality materials and have good designs, they would need to be significantly better than any of the other options you have available to justify their higher prices IMO.

Vita Talalay is made by Radium which are one of the two main manufacturers of Talalay latex in the western world (the other is Latex International). Like all Talalay latex they are a very high quality and durable material. I would treat the Talalay made by LI and by Radium as close equivalents.

[quote]I’ve made some notes in case we are steered in another direction: must have less than 1" low density polyfoam (meaning <1.8"), memory foam (meaning alb low density) or unknown foam.

With memory foam, thicker layers are not as good as thinner layers (<4" is better)

avoid all polyfoam in comfort layer (which is the top layer on the mattress).[/quote]

These are a little bit confused but close. If you are comfortable with polyfoam I would look for 1.8 lb density polyfoam or higher in a one sided mattress or 1.5 lb in a two sided mattress and no more than “an inch or so” of lower density (or unknown) materials in the comfort layers or quilting. Polyfoam can be a very good option in a lower budget mattress and I certainly wouldn’t avoid it for quality reasons in a suitable density. If you are comfortable with memory foam then the minimum guideline I would use for memory foam is 4 lbs or higher (again with the exception of "around an inch or so of lower quality materials in a mattress). It’s not so much that thicker layers of memory foam are “not as good” (for some people they may be fine) but that they can be “more risky” for some people because you may continue to sink in more deeply over the course of the night which can sometimes risk alignment.

I would tend to avoid overthinking all of this or “pre designing” your mattress and use your testing (backed up by making sure the materials are good quality) as your main consideration or as the best way to decide which type of mattresses you prefer.

This would depend entirely on which one was a good match for you in terms of PPP. The innerspring in a mattress is rarely the weak link of a mattress and any type of innerspring can make a good choice depending on the rest of the mattress design and the budget range. I never recommend specific mattresses (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here) because it’s impossible for anyone to know which one is the best match for you based on specs or theory.

You should have many good options available for under $2200 yes but your choice would also depend on what you mean by “eco frendly” because this is one of those “marketing terms” that is used for almost everything in the industry and doesn’t really have a specific meaning and is mostly just “sales talk”. If you are looking for more “natural” materials for personal reasons then innersprings, 100% natural latex, and natural fibers are probably the most natural choices in terms of materials although I would also keep in mind that natural and eco friendly aren’t necessarily the same thing and if safety is your main concern then there are some synthetic or partly synthetic materials that may be just as “safe” as natural materials.

Phoenix

PS: I switched your other post to this thread since they covered the same topics and questions

Thank you for clearing that up for me.

I’m more concerned with VOCs/off-gassing and unknown potentially unsafe synthetics,chemicals or plastics in the mattress. I prefer our mattress to be as natural as possible without sacrificing comfort. If there is a trusted very well studied synthetic involved, some bleaching of fibers or a tiny amount of synthetic somewhere deep inside a mattress then I’m sure we’ll be fine. Just trying to do my best to limit exposure to the stuff when possible.

My husband is allergic to horses so that’s not an option.

Are there particularly safe synthetics you know of that are being used in mattresses? They just starting to tell people to stop buying plastic shower curtains, soft rubber bath toys, certain make ups…they’ve created regulations on bpa but that’s old news now. I’m curious what’s next. Since we spend 1/3 of our life on a mattress If like it if what we’re sleeping on to not give us any surprises 20yrs from now.

Hi Lnr103,

If VOC’s and harmful substances are the main issue then the certification of the material would be the simplest way to make sure that a material is inside the range that most people would be comfortable with and consider to be “safe”. For memory foam and polyfoam (both of which are synthetic materials made from petrochemicals) CertiPur is the most common certification for harmful substances and VOC’s and with latex Oeko-Tex is the certification that you will see most often and is a little more stringent than CertiPur. All the latex you are likely to encounter is Oeko-Tex certified whether it is 100% natural, synthetic, or blended latex and all of it would be “safe” by most people’s standards.

Of course some people may have some health or medical issues (such as MCS or multiple chemical sensitivities) that make them more sensitive than others to some materials or for personal reasons may wish to avoid synthetic materials completely and for those where their answer to the question of “how safe is safe enough for me?” is different from the majority of people then post #2 here and the links and sources of information it leads to may also be a good place to start the research into the much more detailed, complex, and often misleading and contradictory information that is all over the web connected to the relative “safety” of mattress materials and fire retardant methods.

I guess that eliminates horsehair as an option in your mattress :). Fortunately it’s only found is some much higher budget mattresses.

Phoenix

Hi Lnr103,

Buying an all natural mattress with fewer synthetics isn’t so difficult, as a general statement… Especially if latex is good for you in terms of PPP. You basically only have a couple decision points to make, and then the rest falls into place from there.

  1. What is your tolerance for memory foam / poly foam.
  • won’t have it, regardless of how safe someone else says it may be
  • will accept it, but it must be CertiPUR (common) or Oeko-tex 100 certified (note that according to Phoenix, tempurpedic is not)
  • don’t care as long as it’s comfortable
  1. If looking at latex
  • 100% natural latex only,
  • blended with SBR rubber
  1. If chemicals are something you’re avoiding, you probably want a mattress that uses wool or an inherent rayon material for the fire barrier, and in particular not a chemical treatment FR barrier.

In any event, if you’re just trying to be safe… A common approach would be to look for a latex mattress with organic cotton and optionally wool. Those even a bit more concerned will require 100% natural rubber instead of blended (in either talalay or dunlop). Some might select a bamboo (rayon from bamboo) cover instead of cotton, though it’s certainly far less natural…bamboo tends to be lower cost than cotton. In all cases, the mattress should not be treated with a FR chemical and would typically use wool, inherent rayon, or with a prescription have no fire barrier. There are a ton of mattresses made like this… Savvy Rest, Sleeptek, Green Sleep to name the ones I know, plus most of the recommended latex selling companies here will have a similar design.

My point, if I have one, is you’ll need to determine your comfort with polyfoam/memory foam, since if you don’t want it you’ll eliminate >50% of the mattress options you may be looking at.

Thank you both. Extremely helpful. Id prefer to stay away from polyfoam all together but if a memory foam is certified to be safe by certiPUR or even better, Oeko-Tex then I’m definitely willing to consider it.

Not interested tempurpedic any longer although we do love the way it initially feels in a showroom. Just not interested in spending that much and not having it be a certified safe material.

Thank you for the info on FR barrier - Another thing to consider for sure.

Cheers

Okay so I went to both verlo locations this weekend outside of Philadelphia and they were really pleasant and helpful, particularly Foster the president. Both locations seemed to want me to go for the gel memory foam though which I had to admit felt pretty nice. At first he “thought” it was certipure certified but by the end of our meetings he said he “knew that all of their foams were certipure”. He couldn’t provide any documentation saying so but said he would look for some.

They only had one latex option and it was…hmmm….weird. I don’t know what else to say about it besides that it felt strange. It was considered a medium firmness but I felt like I was both going to bounce off the mattress and sink off the edge at the same time. It didn’t feel very contouring…just floppy. Is that the norm with latex? I think if I were to be able to go with latex it would need both more firmness and some contouring along with potentially an ultra firm perimeter edge to frame the mattress so I didn’t sink so low when trying to get out. Does that exist? And if so, does it exist in our budget of 1400-2200 for a king (including the foundation)?

They do offer to build you your own more budget mattress there which starts out fairly affordable ($1200 for 9" with only 2" total of memory foam) but adds up quickly until it simply ends up being a better value to go with a reconstructed gel memory foam they get form their warehouse. When we left we were planning on going with their iVerlo Cool Comfort Gel Foam SITKA.

Can you help me decide if the problems I have with it are justifiable concerns?

  1. no documentation available (yet) on certiPure certification (which I do want if making a purchase) but he assures me they are certified.
  2. ALL of their polyfoam is 1.5 (not 1.6 or 1.8 as you had specified in your tutorial). I think this is only used in their transition layers but I’m thinking it’s also the Acella-Flex? I could be wrong there. He talked a lot about deflection but I got lost in the numbers. 36 sounds familiar though.
  3. The mattress is only 11" thick and my biggest annoyance with my current full size 9" deep mattress is that the fitted sheets are ALWAYS wrinkled up and slip off. I think I need between 12-14" of mattress simply because of that. What do you think?

*4. SPECS: the mattress is 3" of cool gel foam on the top layer (4 lb) followed by 2" of regular memory foam (not sure of the wt) followed by 6" of Acella-Flex foam which has some Fresh Foam odor eliminating technology with activated carbon in it.

  1. none of this is the slightest bit natural, in fact its so far from natural I’m amazed I was at all convinced to consider it…but Im hoping it IS truly at least certiPure and that perhaps that is good enough. Unless there are latex mattresses out there that are comfortable and not so low budget in feel (although I’m certain they aren’t in price).

Thanks ahead of time for reading this.

one positive…or I think it sounds like a safe alternative to toxic flame retardants is that verlo encases the mattress in some sort of sand layer that resists flames without using standard flame retardants. Know anything about that?

Well that would be the inherent rayon that I wrote previously. You can get more info on this forum (I don’t have the links super handy) or there’s some info here Latex and Flammability Laws

thanks dn!

Hi Lnr103,

As to the latex, it’s hard to tell … If you can, it’d be worthwhile finding out if it were all latex or only partly latex, and if it were talalay or dunlop which feel different. That way, you’d at least have some reference for what you don’t like.

But bouncy is definitely how some people describe it, and
Latex mattresses don’t usually have an ‘edge support’ system… It’s usually one or more latex plates the entire size of the mattress.

So ‘bouncy with no edge support’ is certainly a description I could understand.

That said, latex can be made to feel different using a number of techniques, so I don’t know if you simply don’t prefer the feel of all latex, or if you just tried an especially unsuitable mattress unique to that one product, or if you don’t like whatever kind of latex was used (talalay v dunlop) but would enjoy the other one.

I was just reading the site you posted a link to. The guy at verlo kept mentioning that it was talalay and he talked about the rayon FB but he didn’t mention if it were blended with anything or if it was an all natural latex or not. On all the other mattresses he had a model breakdown of what was inside in layers but this mattress didn’t have that. He did have a piece of latex on his foam pile that was just an off-white piece of foam with lots of holes in it but that could have been the insides of one of the innerspring mattresses he has with some latex involved. I’m not sure if that helps. I could always call and find out though.

I have this awful memory from when I was a kid…My cousins, there were 8 of them in one house and they slept on these pieces of exposed foam on the floor. This was at least 25years ago. When I laid on this latex mattress it reminded me of what my cousins slept on for some reason. I think that floppy border makes me think poor quality/sad product, even if its not accurate. I have my fingers crossed that something latex works for me. I’d really REALLy like to have a natural product in my home.

I saw on that site that they recommend more natural latex and less blended. I’m curious how much natural unblended latex you can get for our budget in a king. They also suggest choosing 2-3 unglued layers with a comfort exchange guarantee. Maybe I could get the right feel from that. Is there anything latex that contours like a memory foam? Even just a little??? I went online to see if “clean bedroom” had a warehouse near here and someone suggested above but the closest is in nyc.

Hi Lnr103,

Phoenix has done an incredibly wise thing to help consumers know how to shop for a mattress, but not what to shop for. I say that because I hear you want to like latex, but it remains to be seen if you find one that matches your PPP. Hopefully some of the Philadelphia options have more than a single latex mattress to buy. Does Savvy Rest have any dealers near?

Latex and memory foam are totally different. Latex is bouncy/resilient, whereas memory foam softens as you lay on it. Latex International makes a slow response talalay, which I know nothing about, but it’s supposed to be kind of closer to memory foam. And even memory foam varies by manufacturer as the ingredients and process to make are proprietary for each one.

Talalay feels basically the same being blended or all natural, Phoenix has written before, so I wouldn’t worry just yet about blended v natural. I’d keep at the tutorial post, as what I’m hearing is you’re still determining what basic things you like.

Talalay is pretty lively… Dunlop is less so. They are both good, and a matter of preference. But if you tried talalay, I can definitely understand the bouncy comment.

If you want to pursue a latex mattress, I would get the specs on what you tried. Layering, type of latex, and ild or density. It’s your first (and currently only) reference point so it’d probably be helpful to know what it was.

As to the all natural goal… It is amazing how the theory of it all seems so clear in your head until you discover that some ideas you hate, some things you thought you’d hate you love, etc. Again, you’ll have to decide if you want all natural (in which case you’re probably looking at 100% natural rubber latex and/or springs, with wool and cotton, with certifications), or if you want something that you feel is safe enough which it seems is CertiPUR and/or Oekotex.

Based on some quick math based on 100% natural rubber latex that I’ve seen and/or paid, yes I believe you could find a bed that was 100 NR within your budget… dunlop more easily than talalay, but I believe both doable. That would be the final P in PPP (I.e. You have a preference for all natural). I’d still follow the tutorial to first find a bed that satisfies posture and pressure relief.

Decisions, decisons :wink: