Needing some guidance before placing an order on a talalay topper. I’m 5’10” 165lbs and my wife is 5’4” 120lbs. (Both back and side sleepers). We have a 11” avocado eco king mattress from Costco (it’s a hybrid and says it has 2” of Dunlop 14-19 ILD on individually wrapped coils). We both wake up with achy upper backs (hips for her also) from the mattress being too firm when side sleeping). We tried a 2” Dunlap topper from sleep on latex and it helped a little but didn’t fully cure the aches. We begrudgingly tried a 3” thick viscosoft memory foam topper. It fixed the aches for my wife but it was to soft for me and I began developing the dreaded sciatic/lower back pain (the same pain from when our Leesa hybrid foam mattress began to fail after only 3 years). So with all that said, I’m trying to make the next best decision hopefully before throwing more money out the window. 2” talalay, 19 ILD to soften the mattress up I believe is what Ken recommended prior to providing this much detail on our current situation. Thanks in advance for any additional input or options.
I’ve done some additional reading from my post and I would love to get some feedback from DLX mattress concerning the LatexLux Hybrid mattress options with the ability to split sides or even switch out sides if needed. I may have missed it but I didn’t see any specs on the ILD numbers for the latex to give me an idea of where the layers stack up with our current avocado setup. Thank you!
Happy to answer any questions you have! Based on what you’re describing, I’d suggest considering a custom split for you and your wife. Our 14” Hybrid—half latex and half foam from our Premier—might be a great option. We generally recommend the 14” over the 12” for side sleepers, as the extra height provides more cushioning, which sounds like what you’re looking for based on your experience with the Avocado mattress.
As for ILD, we’re always happy to share details, but we like to give a little heads-up: ILD alone isn’t the best way to compare mattresses. This is just our personal opinion on ILD, and others may disagree, but basing decisions solely on it often leads to selecting the wrong feel or mattress. We’d caution against using ILD alone to make a direct comparison, especially with something as subjective as comfort. It’s similar to buying a pair of sneakers—a size 13 in Nike isn’t the same as a size 13 in New Balance or any other brand.
It’s worth noting that ILD is just one part of the equation when it comes to the feel and performance of a mattress and is not a measure of durability. We prefer not to highlight these numbers because, in our experience, relying too much on ILD often results in higher dissatisfaction rates among customers. The challenge is understanding that ILD is only one factor among many. Elements such as fabric, quilt patterns, upholstery methods, and foam formulation—including density—all significantly impact the overall feel of a mattress.
For example, a 1.5-pound foam with an ILD of 35 will feel different from a 2.4-pound foam with the same ILD. Similarly, 3 inches of 1.8-20 foam will feel different than 1.5 inches of 1.8-20 foam. Additionally, materials like latex, memory foam, standard polyurethane, or performance polyurethane foams with identical ILDs can still feel noticeably different.
When comparing Dunlop latex (which we use), density is a better reference point. We use:
- Soft – 55 kg/m³
- Medium – 75 kg/m³
- Firm – 85 kg/m³
- Extra Firm – 95 kg/m³
That said, even with density, thickness plays a big role. A 1" layer of 75 kg/m³ will feel very different from a 2" layer of the same density. If you’re unsure which firmness to select, we’d be happy to help guide you based on your sleep preferences.
Let us know if you have any other questions!
Thank you for the quick reply! I am sure I will have more questions once I can dive back into the analysis of all this information. The explanation of ILD makes sense. Thank you again for the info!
Hello. I love talalay. Most of my mattress (DIY) is talalay. I think 2" is a good depth. Fwiw, Talalay has more bounce than Dunlop and will likely give you the cushion you need for side sleeping.
We ended up ordering a 2” soft Talalay topper from the Latex Mattress Factory. I spoke with Jim after placing the order and he was very helpful and confirmed that he thought this was a good choice based on the info I gave him. We just put the topper on last night and this is the first night of actually sleeping and waking up not achy (so we are hopeful we have found the solution). It took our firm mattress and made it feel somewhat plush but still not squishy and unsupportive. I am amazed at how noticeable of a change (in a good way) the 2” topper feels. I’m also amazed at how different the 2” talalay feels compared to the previous 2” Dunlap we had tried which was still to firm. The info and help from this forum has been great and I won’t be buying any bedding products from anyone else except from the groups that are a part of this forum. Thank you all!
Quick update on the 2" soft (19 ILD) mattress topper. We are coming up on 30 days of usage. The shoulder and upper back aches and pains have gone away from the softness of the topper (when side sleeping), but for me they have been replaced by a slight aching in my lower right back/hip area (pillow between legs for side sleeping hasn’t helped much either). The setup feels great when you first lay down but the soreness in my lower back that quickly develops has been keeping me up. So now we are at the dilemma of what do do next. I feel like I’m in a situation where I’m going to have to choose between upper shoulder/back from pressure points or lower back from not enough support. I might talk to Jim and see if we should return and try the next firmness of medium (28 ILD).
Perhaps they can create a split topper to allow for the softness you require for your upper body and the slight increase in firmness you need in the hip area. This may be a time to get creative, and resort to a combination solution.
Although, this was something I needed as a sleeping resolution to discomfort, it was one I discovered while visiting @EuropeanSleep in Berkeley, Ca. As I was being fit for the Oxygen pillow, I mentioned how I like to sleep on a slight incline, which the Oxygen Pillow alone would not replace from my current 2-pillow stack. Steve at ESW placed this half wedge topper under the pillow and my upper body.
The height was enough to raise the O2 Pillow to my liking and actually added a welcomed cushy and contouring that was not detrimental in any way. It was actually quite nice. If you can split the topper and place it in a topper encasement, you may get all of the pressure relief you like.
All the best,
Maverick
The Flobeds convoluted latex topper might work. On the website it explains how egg crate toppers were designed to help with pressure points in bedridden hospital patients. Latex in egg crate format might more evenly distribute between your shoulders and hips.
What type of washable cover/mattress pad are you using over the talalay? With the elasticity of talalay, a woven fabric (non stretch) can cause increased pressure and a loss of contour/support (if you do have some kind of encasement, try it without for a night and see if there’s a difference). I would also (as usual) make a strong recommendation to make sure that there is ZERO flex, or sag in both the surface and the structure of whatever the mattress is resting on (look under the bed while someone gets on), as this is an underlying cause of a huge percentage of lower back and shoulder issues for side sleepers. It is also possible that you are going all the way through the 19 ILD talalay with your hip and resting on the surface of the avocado, which could point to firmer making some sense (although possible trade for shoulder pressure). There are almost always trades… 
Right now we were putting the talalay layer (bare layer) on top of the avocado eco and then putting just an allerease mattress cover over the two and then sheets…I think it’s definitely a “too soft” issue when it comes to the lower back pain bc if I sleep directly on the avocado mattress alone the lower back pain/hip pain goes away but then it’s felt in the upper back and shoulders when side sleeping from being to stiff. I’m really thinking about trying a medium ILD 2" talalay and hoping it’s the sweet spot. Going broke though shipping back all these toppers and layers trying to find the perfect setup on this avocado…
That makes sense. Hope the next one is “it”.