The industry - Introduction

A general overview of buying a mattress

No matter how much knowledge a consumer may have about mattresses, without a way to put this knowledge to practical use by knowing where to buy a mattress and why, this knowledge will be wasted. This is the reason for this section of the website. In conjunction with the forum, it can provide the specifics of where to go in any area so that consumers have a way to connect with knowledgeable and experienced manufacturers and retailers in their area that have their customer’s best interests at heart and that they may not otherwise even find out about because they are so often drowned out in the “noise” of misleading and misinformed advertising and information.

There are currently over 500 mattress manufacturers in the USA and perhaps a hundred more in Canada. While many of these represent the many subsidiaries, hidden and otherwise, of the larger mattress manufacturers, hundreds of them are also independent local and regional private companies that are owned by people who love producing mattresses and have amazing value. They know their stuff and genuinely care about the products and the value they produce. They and the better retailers that sell them are accountable to their customers and their reputation rather than the profit margins they “sell” to large corporate chain stores or the profits and return on investment of shareholders and investors. In other words … they are “mattress people” rather than “money machines”.

I have been fortunate to have had extended conversations with dozens of them and it is an understatement to say I was amazed at how willing they were as a group to share their knowledge and information about their mattresses, their business, and the industry as a whole with me. I came to quickly understand that if every mattress in the stores was made by manufacturers such as these, then not only would higher quality mattresses cost much less, but it would also be so much easier to know what was in your mattress and make a purchase that was suitable for your circumstances.

As I became more and more intrigued by what I was discovering, my conversations continued. I also quickly discovered that some of these manufacturers were struggling and that many of them had gone out of business since the last census … not because of poor quality design, construction, service, or value … or even from a worsening economy … but because more and more their value was not being recognized as they were being overwhelmed by larger companies who began to dominate the information flow and the floor space of the largest retailers with misleading information and lesser quality materials promoted as being better than they were. Many of these had been in business for several generations and had passed their knowledge on to each succeeding generation who in turn refined it and “brought it up to date”. Sadly, some of these are already gone.

In a similar way, specialty retailers, sleep shops, and other outlets that focused on value, quality and service were (and are) are being driven out of business by the information flow and dominance of lesser quality, overpriced mattresses and “name brands” that many consumers have come to believe represent their best choices. I have had dozens of conversations with many of these as well and they too are struggling as a group against the misinformation, deceptive sales practices, and false claims that have become the norm in much of the mainstream industry. When they truly offer something better … it is often considered as being “just another claim” in an industry where stories have become more important than genuine information and consumers have become jaded because they truly don’t know where to turn.

Mattress consumers deserve a reliable source of industry information.

Consumers who do not have a reliable source of information or frame of reference to determine which claims or stories are true and which are not, will often just take the “safe” approach of going to a chain store and buying a mattress “on sale” which they believe represents good value … even though it rarely is and any discount is based on a fake “regular” price. More often than not they are buying the story rather than the mattress. These hundreds of quality retail outlets are also in many cases privately owned and run by “mattress people” who love what they do and truly do their best to educate their customers and offer mattresses that represent real value … even though they are being lost in the maze … or the haze … of the overall direction of the industry. I have seen countless examples of consumers who live in a large city who don’t even know that the best retail outlets and manufacturers in their own city even exist.

The larger manufacturers, also called “name brands” or “S” companies because the names of so many of them happen to start with an “S”, and the chain stores and larger retail outlets with which they have a completely co-dependent relationship, call these local and regional manufacturers “off brands” and in this segment of the industry this is considered to be a derogatory term. It is equivalent of saying “stay away” and a not so subtle way of influencing consumers not to consider them as an option through comparative shopping. The only comparisons they were and are comfortable with are with other mattresses … made by subsidiaries of the same companies … using the same materials … and going by a different name with different ticking (covers) so they look like a different and “unique” mattress.

These mattresses are “differentiated” (a common industry term) by different stories or endorsements rather than by real differences in construction, quality or materials. Since all of these “comparisons” are similarly overpriced, and more and more consumers don’'t where else to look for value, or would even have the ability to recognize it if they did, mattresses in general are rising in price and becoming lower in quality. If you look at many of the larger manufacturer websites, you will even see the emphasis on “differentiation” and the stories they conveniently provide to do it. You will rarely find useful information about the materials they use or their methods of construction.

The introduction of one sided mattresses under the guise of “greater convenience” was a major example of this to the point where some consumers actually believe that one sided mattresses are superior to two sided constructions. These lesser quality one sided mattresses quickly became as expensive as their two sided counterparts people were used to buying. The widespread use of low quality polyfoam, memory foam, and airbeds, are a few more examples of “changes” in the industry that have certainly had some benefits but the exaggerated claims attached to them, and the prices that go with these exaggerated claims, have further added to the perception that price and quality go hand in hand. There are many other examples of the industry’s ongoing search for ways to use lesser quality materials to produce lower priced mattresses that sell for higher prices while at the same time convincing consumers through a story or endorsement that their deficiencies are either “normal” or desirable.

More and more of the kind of accurate and specific information that is truly needed will appear on this website over time however I also realized that in spite of my focus on finding out the truth, that I was developing a “bias” and a “favorite” brand along the way that actually had a name. This brand was called “off brand” and was made in very high quality and with exceptionally high value by hundreds of manufacturers and sold by thousands of independent specialty stores and sleep shops around the country. This recognition and the realization that consumers needed to be re-connected with the manufacturers and the retail outlets that sold them was the beginning of “The Mattress Underground”.

Our origin story and the birth of The Mattress Underground.

What you see here so far is just the start. It is also interesting that the “alternative version” of the origin of The Mattress Underground and how it started that I posted in a forum in a light hearted moment on Christmas eve of 2010 … was more true than the “funny story” that I thought it was at the time. You can read origins of TMU - an alternative story if you wish.

The manufacturers that produce these high quality mattresses, and the retailers who sell them in a spirit of knowledge, service, and value deserve to be both recognized, rewarded, and to prosper.

The greatest beneficiary of their individual success will not only be the consumers who “discover” them and buy a better quality and value mattress, but all retailers and manufacturers who share these values, and the industry itself. Re-connecting these three parts of the industry who share common values and goals is the purpose of The Mattress Underground and the reason it began. This site and the information in the forum is a way to help you recognize and discover who and where they are.

Hello! Just joined and read this overview article, which left me with appreciation that I found this group and that rare but cherished feeling of “these are my people.” I am old enough to have had a mattress misadventure or two, and hopefully with this internet tool & community, that will happen no more!

Hi Karenmo,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

I’m happy that you’ve found us and I hope the information presented here will be assistive as you begin your mattress shopping journey.

Phoenix

Thank you so much for taking the time to do this research and develop a website to share your findings. I’ve been searching for trustworthy reviews and have had a hard time determining what’s what.
I live in California, in the San Fernando Valley area, 91335 zip code. Can you give me a few places to start?
Thank you again!

Hi onekimberly.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Thank you for your kind words. I am glad that you find our site to be assistive in your research.

I understand your confusion and lack of trust that you have with the many “review” sites that are in fact “revenue” sites that are the new more subtle face of marketing systems. A big part of the underlying problem is that consumers as a whole put too much trust in mattress reviews in the first place (either positive or negative) in the mistaken belief that they are a good way to assess whether a mattress would be a suitable or a durable choice for them so they end up choosing a mattress for all the wrong reasons based on other people’s experiences and reviews or on the “deal” they think they are getting instead of legitimate “fact based” research that would be relevant to their own unique needs, preferences, and criteria. This is more of an issue with consumers in general that can really only be solved with education about how to buy a mattress but because reviews have become so important in today’s online market they have gained a false aura of legitimacy and while they may not be the cause of the problem … many mattress companies are well aware of their ability to influence people and change buying habits and certainly take full advantage of the mindset and target market that pays significant attention to them so they are really just taking advantage of a “reality” that they know will sell mattresses for them.

While most reviewers are certainly well meaning … because most reviews aren’t relevant to anyone but the reviewer and can be “influenced” so easily and in so many ways … for the most part (with only few exceptions) mattress reviews are a classic example of garbage in / garbage out even though the “garbage” may be well meaning and true to the experience of the person writing the review. In many ways it reminds me of MLM companies which turn customers into salespeople where people will say whatever they need to say in their “testimonials” in order to sell their products and their business to others.

I am not very sure what you’ve read since finding the site, but just in case….the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial herepost #2 here post #13 here (there is a condensed version of it at the end of that post) which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice … and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones. Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for andwhich has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well he will sleep), durability (how long he will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).

When assessing any product, also be sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

We have decided to discontinue the provision of listings of potential retailers in various geographic regions (unless they are already approved site members), because of the difficulty in maintaining such lists in a retail landscape that is constantly changing, and most importantly the confusion it was creating with the consumer members who incorrectly assumed that these businesses had indeed gone through the strict qualification process and were approved as members of The Mattress Underground. Such an assumption is unfair to both the consumers seeking assistance, as well as the very businesses and manufacturers who meet the criteria to become Trusted Members of The Mattress Underground.

You can perform a Forum Search and you can type in the “key term” any city or area you would be closer to and consider driving such as San Fernando, or Los Angeles or any other area and see what other businesses have been discussed in that region which may be helpful to you.

Whatever business you’re considering, I would always confirm that any retailer or manufacturer that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article) and also make sure that any mattress that you are considering meets the Post #13 quality/value guidelines here.

Good luck! and once you’ve had the chance to narrow things down a little further, feel free to post back with any specific questions and I or any of our Expert Members will be happy to assist you.

Phoenix

Hi all. Just joined because I am looking for a mattress and want to be armed with all the information I need to make an informed decision. I have been reading through so many things here, and would just like to know is there a list of manufacturers of these high quality mattresses listed anywhere on here, and if so, can you please direct me to it. If not, why not?

@droidx - Welcome to TMU forum. You will find a list of TMU Trusted Members at the link below, which you can review to find a recommended seller that best matches your preferences and specific needs. https://mattressunderground.com/the-underground/our-trusted-members.html

Thanks,

Ok, I think I have had enough of the mattress search for a while. I’ve learned that you cannot trust most review sites because they are all getting paid to direct you to online mattress sites, so its hard to believe any of them have unbiased reviews. I’ve also learned that their are so many online mattress companies out there with return policies that if you really dig into them are giving many people issues with minor technicalities that I am now not convinced I will get a refund if I decide I don’t like a mattress. Finally, if I do go with any mattress, it will probably be one that I can actually test in person so I don’t have to take a chance at having to send one back. Unfortunately, that leaves me with very few options, which will probably lead me to end up buying a Tempurpedic, since they are one of the few fully foam mattresses that are carried in my area. I have found a couple online that I like, but they are just as expensive as the Tempur, so whats the point of buying one online that I can’t try first? I am going to sit back for a while and clear my head of all of these mattresses and try to regroup and start again in a month or two. I have been researching for 2 months now, and have gotten much very good information from this site, so thank you for that. If I do end up buying online, I will try to do it through this site, assuming you guys refer the brand I eventually end up with. Thanks

Also,
I dont understand why I cannot start a new thread. Is there a waiting period from join time or am I just missing something?

I am having the same issue. How do I start a thread to ask a question? Is that an option? Confused

Seems to be a common point of confusion which is explained on the following “How to” page: https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/how-to-use-our-forum-to-research-or-seek-assistance

Hi Sweet Dreams.

Thanks for the clarification! As usual… I appreciate your contributions :slight_smile:

@ need2sleep1
Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:
I or any of the Expert members of the site would be glad to be of assistance.

Phoenix

Okay thanks–hope I am doing this right! Searched the forum to see if anyone had started a similar thread, but I’m not seeing it–sorry if I’m posting in the wrong place. Please feel free to move my post. I just need help! I’m a young professional on a budget, and I have lower back/hip pain due to congenital hip dysplasia. I’m about to have surgery for it and was pretty sure that my 6-year-old cheap mattress (my parents bought it for about $300 from a local appliance store) was not making anything better, and would be unbearable in a few months when I’m post-surgery. It had been comfortable for the first few years but was now hard and less supportive than I’d like.

So, a few weeks ago, I began the task of mattress shopping. Went to several stores, tried a lot but none in my budget ($700 or less) were perfect. Finally went into a local mattress retailer because I thought they might be better than a chain. I found a medium firm Serta Perfect Sleeper there–it was very comfortable in the store. I was looking for lots of support, but a soft sleeping surface with a bit of cushion, and the 15 minutes I spent on it in the store made it feel like it fit that description. Including tax and delivery, I paid about $600 for a full. I knew it wouldn’t last forever, but I figured a few years at least, and then I will probably be able to afford something a little higher-end, or may be looking for a queen or king.

They delivered it with a new box spring, took away my old mattress and box spring, and the first night I slept on it, I cried. It was so hard on the surface, yet so unsupportive. I felt like I was falling into a cave in the middle (it’s a full size mattress), and there was no support for my back or hips. It was worse than my old mattress. I tried it for 2 more nights and it was the same story. I went back to the store and they said they would switch it out for me under their exchange policy. I had to pay a 10% restocking fee and re-delivery fee. I spent a lot of time in the store trying to choose a replacement mattress, and I chose a Sealy Crown Jewel Geneva Ruby Firm. It was a bit firm, but felt SO supportive. It really held my body in a straight line when lying on my back, but I think that’s what I need, given my issues. I laid on it for about 30 minutes and even had a reduction in pain. If anything, it was going to be TOO firm, I thought, but that can be fixed with a topper if necessary. It was a few hundred more than the one I had purchased before, but I decided to go for it and finance the difference. The total, including the exchange fee and re-delivery, ended up being about $1,000, but I figured it was worth it to finally have my mattress working with my back, not against it.

I slept (painfully) on the Serta mattress until this one came in, about a week, and counted down the days until my new mattress. It arrived a few days ago (just the mattress; they had me keep the Serta boxspring they had delivered on the first trip). After the delivery truck left, I laid on it and it was not as supportive as I remembered from the store (my back/hips were not held up as well), but then I lifted up the mattress and noticed something. The Serta boxspring has only springs on top (there are wooden slats underneath, but on the surface that touches the mattress, I can only feel large springs that easily give to the touch). I have never had a boxspring like this before–in the past, I’ve only had the ones that basically feel like fabric-coated wood slats. So, I dragged out the old piece of plywood that been under my old, old mattress, and stuck it between the mattress and boxspring. This seemed to help, and I slept okay the first night.

However, the past three nights, things have gotten worse. I don’t have enough support in the middle, and I seem to be sinking in. I can get decent support if I lie on either side of the mattress, but I still feel a little sink on whatever side of me is towards the middle. I can see this with a king or queen, but a full? It’s crazy! I should be able to sleep in the middle of my brand new mattress. I certainly could on my old mattress, before it went bad.

Basically, I am at my wits’ end, and am wondering if this is the mattress itself, or a matter of support underneath the mattress. Do I need a different boxspring or foundation? Would a metal platform bed help to add support? I should note that my bed frame does not have the middle support in it, as it’s a full size, and the salesman advised me I didn’t need it, but I’ve heard conflicting things online. Basically, I’m hoping someone can please give me advice on ways I can support this mattress. Or, if it’s the mattress itself, what can I do besides sleeping on the couch? I can’t take it back at this point–they only offer one exchange. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

Hi need2sleep1.

Thanks for detailing your experience with Serta and Sealy mattresses… this is a good example of why …who you purchase from and …the options they have if the mattress does not turn out to be as good as you hoped for, can be one of the most important parts of a successful mattress purchase. Making sure that you have the appropriate support and sleep surface comfort before the surgical procedure to ensure proper healing is certainly very important and I am sorry to hear that you’ve got so much trouble in finding something appropriate for your hip dysplasia condition. I hope the surgery goes well and that by that time you’ll have a good mattress to sleep on and recover.

[quote]However, the past three nights, things have gotten worse. I don’t have enough support in the middle, and I seem to be sinking in. I can get decent support if I lie on either side of the mattress, but I still feel a little sink on whatever side of me is towards the middle. I can see this with a king or queen, but a full? It’s crazy! I should be able to sleep in the middle of my brand new mattress. I certainly could on my old mattress, before it went bad.
[/quote]

You are in a somewhat difficult position … you need to exchange a mattress and you used your only exchange for a higher value product (that you had to finance) Also if the store you purchased it for consents to a new exchange then you may be limitied by the mattresses that are sold at the retailer you are dealing with (unless they sell some good quality/value mattresses which many mainstream stores don’t) and in this case I would follow the suggestions in post #2 here and the posts it links to.
While I understand that the options at the store/retailer are limited , I am glad that you took the time to document your experience as this might be useful in isolating the cause and approaching the retailer or manufacturer if you need to ask the store to make an exception from their policies. My first suggestion is that you do a bit more detective work to try to pinpoint if the unsupportiveness is due to the foundation, mattress itself or both.

I’d suggest that you avoid a reactive mode of trying to solve the issue by buying something that may or may not solve it. I know that it is difficult when you wake up in pains, but perhaps you can find a temporary solution to get better sleep while aproachng this systematically.
1. First try to isolate the problem (Determine where the lack of support is coming from. Is it the boxspring, the mattress, or both?

[indent]a. It’s very possible that the issue could be caused by some sagging or gaps in the box-spring that doesn’t provide a suitable support surface for your mattress … this can certainly make a significant difference in how well aligned you are and how well you sleep. You can test this by placing the mattress on the floor and sleeping on it for a few nights to see if it makes any difference. It may be that the wood slats quality is not adequate and may be compounded by the lack of central support would result in excessive bending under your weight and the weight of the mattress.
b. Look for any defects in the mattress including sagging. While sagging is unlikely with a new matters, you can check for any visible signs of it and make sure to measure its depth by placing the mattress on the floor and then either run a string from edge to edge (see this video here) or use a straight edge (such as a broom handle) across the mattress and then measure the depth of the sag from the bottom of the straight edge or string. Note that a new mattress should not have any sagging, and remember that “comfort” is not something that is covered under a warranty, but excessive sagging is[/indent]

2. No 1 above will put you in a better position to go back to the retailer and present your situation. Even though you are restricted by the number of exchanges allowed by the store’s policy the good news that most stores have become consumer care oriented and, when reasonable they’ll do their best to help.

[indent]a. If it’s determined that the foundation is responsible for the lack of support, then you can ask the store to replace the box spring with something more supportive, or look for other foundation options.
b. If the mattress is the problem then I’d suggest explaining that your local retailer and politely request their advice and assistance and hopefully given your circumstance, they’ll make an exception and allow another exchange. If they allow this, then I would take the time to carefully assess all the options they have available within your budget You can start out by finding the information listed here and the exact specifications (such as foam density) and the quality of the componentry in the mattress so that you can compare it to the durability guidelines here. you may wish to consider an exchange as long as you first test the product for PPP(Pressure Relief, Posture and alignment and Personal Preferences) to assess if it meets your personal needs and preferences.
c. If there is excessive sagging then you could ask for a refund if the policy allows it and then you would have a better chance of finding something more suitable.[/indent]
3. Manufacturer step in … if the store is not assistive then the next best option would be to contact the manufacturer themselves and make clear that you’ve reached out to them as you’ve exhausted all your options regarding an unsuitable product.

I wish I could provide some specific suggestions that are more helpful, but outside of the retailer and/or manufacturer being willing to make an exception to their policy, there is not much that I can say. I look forward to any updates.

Phoenix

Thanks so much for your reply! I checked out “Post #2” and, interestingly enough, this is the mindset I had when I went in to exchange. I wanted the firmest, most supportive mattress possible, and had the idea of adding a topper if necessary to soften the surface up a bit. Also find it to be interesting that the original poster there was having trouble with Sealy, as well. Although, I must say, I wish mine had been comfortable for two years, rather than two days! :slight_smile: Two years is still terrible quality, of course.

I will try putting the mattress on the floor tonight and will see what happens. I’m really hoping this will prove that the support underneath is the issue. If there are defects with the mattress itself, unfortunately, they’re not measurable when I’m not lying on it (there’s a slight indentation in the middle, but I believe the warranty says it has to be 1.5 inches). Also, I’m not even sure what I’d exchange it for, as the retailer is a relatively small store, and I tried most of their other mattresses. Disregarding price, this was the only one that really felt comfortable and supportive enough for me. They only have the standard mattress brands (Serta, Sealy, Simmons, Tempurpedic), and then some more low-end springs.

I am still just so confused as to how they manage to make these mattresses feel so different on the showroom floor! Is it possible that they manufacture a higher-quality mattress for floor models, and slap the same label on it? That’s the only thing I can think of, if the mattress is the issue, especially as mine came straight from the manufacturer (I had to wait a week for it to come in to the retailer). The showroom model was a queen, and I laid in the center for at least 15 minutes with firm, blissful support. When I’m in the center of my full model, I sink constantly throughout the first 5-10 minutes.

I have also had the thought that perhaps it is the “pocketed coils.” I have never had a mattress with these before, and perhaps I should have stayed away and gotten one of the old-fashioned models that the mattress retailers say are so terrible. I am used to more bounce and resistance in a mattress. But I can’t imagine that anyone would want pocketed coils if they cause such sinking.

Again, many thanks for your very detailed and helpful response. I will report back after my first experiment!

Hi need2sleep1.

The major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with the major retailers that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren’t able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here. along with post #3 here. and post #12 here. and post #404 here.).

Tempurpedic mattresses use good quality materials but as you know they are in much higher (and mostly unjustifiable) budget ranges and for most people they certainly wouldn’t be in the best “value” range compared to many other smaller manufacturers that use similar (or in some cases better) quality materials that are in much lower budget ranges. You can read more about Tempurpedic in general in posts #1 and #2 here…

I am not very sure what is the cause of the mattress feeling firmer and more supportive in the showroom than the one that you received. The showroom models usually experience some “breaking-in” (from customer use) and would be softer rather than firmer. There are a few possiblilities to consider such as
~ you tested a firm version and received a medium or soft comfort choice. It may be worth verifying that you did not receive a softer firmness option of the same model.
~ Another consideration would be the temperature of the showroom, if when you tested the mattress the showroom was very cool it can make quite some difference in the level of comfort you experience. The feel of memory foam can vary dramatically as it is temperature and humidity sensitive. A cooler environment will lead to the mattress feeling harder when you first lie on it. Usually even if a visco-elastic foam feels hard at room temperature, it will soften with the application of your body heat and mass, which means that your clothing and the showroom coverings may have also prevented to a certain extent the heat transfer and gave a false impressin of suportiveness. Foam softening would also be faster at home when the body heat becomes trapped under the bed coverings.

As memory foam softens in response to heat and humidity from your body or room temperature, it changes from a more elastic material into a more viscous material and the length of time it is continuously compressed can also affect how much the memory foam softens as well. This change or “melting” also takes time when you lie on it and it also takes time to change back to elasticity and return to its shape when you get up. These two factors are the main reasons that lead to the slower compression and recovery (the memory quality) of memory foam. For this reason, it would need a good support layer underneath it.

I know you are in a more complicated situation than you may have anticipated, but hopefully, you’ll make some good progress after some more experimenting. Keep us posted!

Phoenix

Thanks once more, Phoenix, for a great explanation. I do think the foam layers in this mattress are something that I’m not used to–I have never had one that had any memory foam layers on top. My last one was just a basic innerspring, pretty old-fashioned. I noticed on day 1 that I cannot use my cotton mattress pad with this new one, or the foam will not conform at all. That is probably due to the heat effect that you mentioned. I noticed an improvement when using it with just a sheet. I’m not sure that ambient temperate made a difference in the showroom, though, because I remember that being a bit hot, and I keep my house pretty cool.

I double checked the tag, and they did deliver the same one I ordered. I actually found a description of it here. (This is not my retailer–just one that happens to sell it.)

I do have an update, though: I put it on the floor last night, like you suggested, and I no longer felt the sagging or sinking. It was definitely more supportive for my back and I no longer felt like my feet and chest were higher than my hips, which is what was I was experiencing before. However, it was a little too “hard,” especially for side sleeping. I must have switched to my side sometime in the night, and I woke up with that side hurting, especially my hip (I had not felt this with the box spring configuration). So I think that I need a support under the mattress that is very firm and supportive, but has a tiny bit of give. What would you suggest to fit this bill, that would be affordable? I was thinking perhaps something like this, but would love to hear your suggestions.

Thanks again for your really helpful insight!

Hi need2sleep1.

I am glad that you slept better and that you (at least partially tracked down) the reason for the mattress sagging and being unsupportive. There is little meaningful information about the quality and the density of the foams and componentry within the mattress, but as far of supportiveness goes I am glad that you eliminated the possibility of being sent the wrong mattress firmness choice as I was concerned that you may have received the Ruby Plush instead of the Ruby Firm.

As far as the foundation goes… the first thing to do is always to check with the mattress manufacturer/retailer and ask their opinion to make sure that the foundation is appropriate and doesn’t void your warranty.

Then looking at the item I am noticing that the rails are on slightly different levels, but the side to side bracing is a bit wider with the gaps, so you’d want to keep an eye on the wore grids to make sure that they don’t sag too much over time. If it is OK to use Zinus as a base foundation for your Sealy Crown mattress, then I’d also consider placing an old thick blanket (or something similar) or a choir rug to assist in minimizing the wire network “pushing up” into the innerspring base over time and in distributing the load over this area.

I look forward to any updates you may have.

Phoenix

Sorry to post this here, but I still have not found a way to start a new thread in these forums. \I have been researching mattresses, and one of the trusted members here is Richmond Bedding. I have never yet dealt with them, but I went to their site from here, and then after seeing many fine selections decided to start researching the vendor. Here is a link to yelp, which isnt my fave, but man, here is a heads up for anyone looking to buy from them. I know I never will.

Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this Phoenix, but I have no idea where else to post it, nor have I figured out how to start a new thread.