The right ILD and thickness for Talalay topper: fibromyalgia and plus sized

I intend to DIY a bed over time using latex topper(s) and later, some sort of base that is reversible. I’m posting here for help specifically on the immediate question of what density and thickness of latex topper might be best.

  • Me: “Large” female: 5’10/230 lb with fibromyalgia; need firm/extra firm support but also a soft-very soft layer of comfort foam, all of which will hold up under my weight or be affordable enough to replace. Am on a fixed income; this is crucial to my health—I’ve found changes I’ve made to my sleep setup have yielded stupendous improvements in my health, but still am bound to the earth by the need to stick to a reasonable budget.

  • I sleep primarily on side, occasionally on back.

  • My current mattress is a four year old original T&N polyfoam. It was never great, but after gaining weight, it immediately lost all support. On the advice of one of your members, I flipped it over and tested sleeping on the backside. I feel like a new woman in the morning, though too firm to be truly comfortable at night, even with a 3" memory foam topper—i.e., can’t sleep comfortably on my side, just my back (though I’ll do this forever if need be to be pain free in the morning!).

So the immediate issue: I’ve had several opinions but no clear consensus on the appropriate density and thickness for comfort layer(s).

My thought is at the present to get a 3" Talalay topper at 19 ILD, encased in its own protector as per the advice of a helpful salesperson at DIYMattress.com. Short term, I figure I can use it on top of the 3" memory foam topper and back of the mattress I have.

I feel fairly confident about the 3" thickness, but not as confident about the 19 ILD. At a weight of 235 and height of 5’10", is this going to be insufficient? I want to be comfortable–I want the feeling of plush, and to be able to sleep on my side–but I know from the past week’s experiment of sleeping on basically a hard slab that I also need something very firm for my spine et al.

And since the top layer depth and ILD depend, to some extent, on the rest of the set up, here are my future plans:

Once the memory foam topper and the T&N hack wear out, I would plan to get an additional topper, likely 28 ILD 2" thick Dunlop latex to use as a transitional layer, and put that on top of either 1) some sort of firm base that is reversible, most likely a good quality polyfoam (1.8 lb./cu ft – or better if I can find an affordable one) but possibly an inexpensive mattress if made from materials of at least that density; or 2) an inexpensive but heavy duty innerspring or hybrid bed with pocket coils that are at least 13 gauge.

My rationale for 3" 19 ILD Talalay is based largely on material found (loosely restated here), e.g.:

  1. Side sleepers need more pressure relief: a comfort layer of 2-4" (starting of 3") is ideal;
  2. Back sleepers need less pressure relief but some: comfort layer of 1-3" (starting at 2") is ideal;
  3. Combination sleepers usually best off choosing comfort layer slightly less than deepest position would require, and then adding a transition layer;
  4. The heavier/larger a person is, the firmer and thicker a comfort layer needed; and
  5. Curvier body profiles need thicker/softer comfort layers.

I find myself adding and subtracting based on this–and just coming back to 3" lol. Perhaps it’ll be sufficient on a firm surface to prevent the need of a transition layer.

And I should note that I am thankfully losing the weight almost as quickly as I gained it (since it was largely the product of bad meds); perhaps in 2024 I won’t have to worry about a 19 ILD being unduly soft or 3" too thin.

Lastly: are there any vendors out there who will work with you on a hybrid bed, willing to switch out layers until they work for you? It seems to me that I saw this on someone’s website, but I can’t find it now. I have excellent credit, and if I chose to buy a mattress I could–it’s just an expense that would exceed my comfort (although admittedly all of this legwork and the lack of a guarantee is quite uncomfortable as well). So if any of you do this sort of thing–a guarantee by which you will switch in/out layers of latex in a hybrid until a customer is comfortable–please get in touch, or let me know what your website is.

Thanks much for your help in advance.

Hi Anoukaimee,

After carefully reading through your post, it appears to me that you are in need of a “sleep system” that will change as you change.

Immediate Need: A 3" 19 ILD Talalay latex topper might be a good start to providing you with a soft material that should help with pressure relief for your fibromyalgia. My concern, however, is that when you’re sleeping on your side, you may compress the foam and feel the firmer surface below. As you are primarily a side sleeper, I would suggest that you consider a 3" 24 ILD.

Long-Term: In terms of a “sleep system” that will change as you return to your previous weight profile, it’s important to be able to make modifications along the way. It’s my belief that for every 20 to 25 lbs. change in a person’s weight profile, they should consider a modification to the sleep surface. The other thing to consider is that you may need different densities to support the various parts of your body. Our weight is not distributed evenly on our hips and shoulders, particularly for side sleepers. Typically, women carry a little more weight in their hip area and men carry more weight in their stomach and shoulder area. To align the spine, different densities are required to support the hips and shoulders separately. In your case, I would imagine it’s even more important with your fibromyalgia. So the trick is to have a sleep surface that is soft enough for your fibromyalgia and supportive enough so your spine is in alignment.

It’s somewhat difficult for me to recommend a total solution when you are considering various sleep surfaces such as innerspring or a hybrid system as the base. That’s simply because I don’t know the support characteristics of those other surfaces and what would be required in those top layers to achieve the alignment and feel I mentioned above. A mattress or as I call it, a sleep system, is the entire system. Whatever is on the bottom affects the feel of the top layers. You could change the base and the top will perform differently. That being said, I would suggest that the top 6" of your final solution be all Talalay latex. Talalay latex is produced in 8 different densities and you can be assured that the ILDs are what they say they are. Also, there are many different feel combinations that can be constructed as you transition over the next 24 months. Achieving the softness and alignment are possbile with the correct combination of densities.

I hope this is helpful. If you have any questions, please write back.

CST

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Thank you for your thoughtful and well-reasoned response; I think you’re right on the mark.

Regarding the topper: I haven’t seen one in 24 ILD; generally they’re 14, 19, 28, etc. (at least in the less expensive venues that I would frequent should I DIY this). That said, knowing now that 24 ILD exists, that sounds like a good fit, and I’ll look around for one as I’m going through this increasingly laborious process. Thank you!

Your suggestion of a system that will change as I change parallels my query for a vendor who allows the customer to switch in comfort layers until satisfied during the first year or so–but goes beyond that. If I decide to invest in a mattress or “sleep system” now rather than just a topper and a DIY system, that would be the minimum I would need from a retailer.

So I looked at your site and was quite impressed. You really have this down to a science, and you’ve really got the customization and service down to an art. To be able to have an evolving bed, over the years to come, would be ideal, especially as I anticipate being able to lose some of this fibromyalgia weight–if not on a fixed income, I’d be turning to you straight off.

So I’m relatively low income but I do have very good credit; it’s just time to crunch the numbers and make some decisions regarding whether it would ultimately be worth the stress on the rest of my budget to have the peace of mind a “warranty plus plus” such as yours offers. I put in a request for contact, so I can find out more about the specific prices of your systems.

Thank you so much for the substantive content of your answer here, and was glad it led me to your website as well! Enjoy your weekend.