I love that I found this website! I did a lot of reading, but like someone above said, not all 36 pages. :blink: I would really appreciate your opinion on my question because you seem to know your stuff. I know your opinion of big chain mattress stores, but hear me out. We went into our local Mattress Firm today because we have been thinking about getting a memory foam mattress for quite some time. I have a herniated disc and other joint /arthritis issues, so my 10 year old Springair pillow top mattress isnāt cutting the mustard anymore. Weāve looked around before, but never bought anything because of high prices and ignorance on the subject. I saw a video online today about the cooling gel and how it can degrade over time, so the I comforts are out. They had all 3 models of their Yu Me mattresses on clearance today. The āsoftestā model was the most expensive, at $2000.00. The firm felt too firm for me, but the medium level felt just right. (like Goldilocks!) My main question is this : do you think $1800.00 is a reasonable price for the Yu Me (it is virtually impossible to find any reviews for this product!) AND, would you get a floor model? The medium firmness one felt, to me, like it would last longer, plus, itās the only model with a Talalay layer in the middle. Plus, considering the original price on these mattresses, $1800.00 seems like such a good buy. Itās also temperature controlled on each side. Thanks in advance for your help!
Hi mm1968,
A mattress is only as good as its construction and the quality of the materials and components inside it so without knowing the specific quality of all the layers in the YuME mattress (especially the upper layers) so I could identify any weak links in the mattress or make meaningful comparisons to other mattresses there is really no way to make any meaningful comments about it. I personally wouldnāt consider it at $1800 or even half the price unless I know the quality of all the layers and materials in the mattress. Would you consider a mattress where the odds were high that foam softening can lead to the loss of comfort and support and the need to replace the mattress in just a very few years when foam softening isnāt covered by warranty? The risk would be much too high for me.
While a floor model may be good value and the reduced price may be well worth giving up the warranty with a mattress that you know has no weak links and uses all good quality and durable materials ā¦ I wouldnāt consider it for a mattress that was a blind purchase or that used lower quality materials unless it was for a guest bedroom or temporary use where quality and durability wasnāt a significant factor in the purchase.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
I have stumbled upon this great website and decided to register as a member. My wife and I have been spending the past week trying to find the right mattress. We are looking to upgrade to a King from a Queen. The reason I posted in this topic is that the mattress that we seem to like the best so far is the IComfort Genius. I have read several of the posts on this topic and I see that the IComfort is over priced and over rated. We do feel we want a memory foam mattress and like the feel of the Genius and also looked at the Sealy Optimum Radiance. I sleep on my stomach and my wife on her side and I also have back issues along with arthritis in both knees. We live in Illinois about 45 minutes south of Chicago. We have become so overwhelmed Do you have any suggestions as to where we should turn? I know it has been mentioned to look at factory direct manufacturers. Do you have any suggestions that you might be. Able to recommend. Thank you very much!
Hi Dandsking,
In case you havenāt read it yet ā¦ the first place I would start is the tutorial post here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ā¦ and avoid the worse ones.
Post #2 and #4 here include the better options Iām aware of in the Chicago area and if I was in reasonable driving distance I would make sure to include Quality Sleep / My Green Mattress which are one of the members here and compete well with the best in the industry in terms of the quality and value of the mattresses they make.
Phoenix
This is all very useful information! I have been trolling your mattress forum for an hour or so looking for information to solve our issue. We just purchased an icomfort genius and after trying it out for two nights, my ribcage and hip hurt and I toss and turn all night. I am a thin person and I donāt feel like it conforms to my body much at all. Itās as hard to sleep on as the ground when camping. I did hear from some sources that there is a ābreak-inā period with this mattress and notice that you mention it in several posts, but why canāt I get a consistent story about this from Serta? I called them and they said on the phone and on their website that this particular foam doesnāt require a break-in period. But then the guy on the phone backtracked and said to try walking on it to soften it up. Isnāt this a breaking in of some kind? The one we tried in the store did not feel this hard or we wouldnāt have purchased it. Mattress purchasing is so complicated! thanks!
Hi kiquali,
The Genius is rated as the firmest of the iComfort mattresses and would typically be too firm for most side sleepers who need more cushioning under their pressure points. I think that you may have chosen a mattress that isnāt suitable for your body type and sleeping position so the first suggestion I would make if itās possible would be to choose a mattress that is more suitable for your body type and sleeping position.
All foam materials will break in and soften to different degrees in the initial weeks or months of use and this will be followed by a more gradual softening over longer periods of time and then by the breakdown of the material itself (see post #4 here).
A bigger issue though with the iComfort Genius though is its construction. The layers include ā¦
2.75" of 4 lb gel memory foam
2" of 1.3 lb polyfoam (this is a very firm foam that is part of why the mattress is so firm)
6" of 1.5 lb polyfoam support layer.
Serta rates this as a 3 which is the firmest mattress in the iComfort line (although some people āfeelā that the insight is firmer) but a big part of the firmness comes from the very firm but low quality 2" layer of polyfoam under the memory foam. Because this is very low quality/density material it will soften and break down relatively quickly (compared to higher density/quality polyfoam) so if a mattress has been in a store for a long time it will feel softer than a new mattress and a consumer will receive a new mattress that feels much firmer.
On the other hand if the floor model is fairly new then the new mattress that a consumer receives will feel close to the same but over time it will soften and break down relatively quickly and can develop āvirtual impressionsā or soft spots that arenāt visible and arenāt covered by warranty.
The problem with foam softening of a deeper layer like this is that the softening will happen unevenly and will be more under the heavier areas of the body so it can lead to the loss of support under the pelvis and alignment issues (such as lower back discomfort and pain) and it may not soften enough under the lighter parts of the body that need more pressure relief (such as the shoulders for side sleepers).
The use of lower quality materials that will soften or break down more rapidly is one of the biggest issues with the major brands and the reason I suggest that they all be avoided (along with any mattress where you arenāt able to find out the quality of the materials inside it).
Mainly because āmarketing storiesā are what sells mattresses and the larger manufacturers donāt have any real interest in providing more meaningful information about the quality of their materials to consumers. In most cases the smaller manufacturers who are more directly accountable to their customers and who āwantā their customers to be able to make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses are the ones that will āeducateā their customers and provide meaningful information about their mattresses that allow their customers to make more informed choices. You can read more about this in this article and in post #12 here.
To get to your main question though ā¦ if you canāt exchange the mattress for another one that has softer and more pressure relieving comfort layers and hopefully better quality materials (or get a refund and start all over again looking for a more suitable and better quality/value mattress) ā¦ then a topper can be a good choice for a mattress that needs thicker or softer comfort layer and additional pressure relief as long as the mattress is still in good condition and doesnāt already have any soft spots or impressions in the sleeping surface.
If you do decide to go in this direction then the topper guidelines in post #3 here and the posts it links to can help you decide which thickness and type of topper may be most suitable for you.
Phoenix
Hi All,
We have interesting deal on a queen size iComfort Genius 11 inch Memory Foam mattress. From what Iāve read in this forum, it sounds Serta mattresses are considered overpriced given the construction.
In this case Iām deciding whether or not to buy a Macyās floor model (they are selling off all their 2013 beds). They are selling the mattress and the adjustable bed for $650.
What do you think? Does this make the deal worthwhile? Or is the iComfort Genius worth avoiding at all costs?
Hi CDub,
You can read a little more about the Genius in post #542 here.
As you can see it has a weak link which is the 2" of low quality polyfoam underneath the top layer of gel particle memory foam.
If the mattress you tested has been broken in then a new Genius will likely be firmer than the one you tested and if the mattress you tested was new then the mattress you buy will be similar but likely soften under the heavier parts of your body fairly quickly and these āvirtual impressionsā arenāt covered by a warranty.
I personally wouldnāt buy a mattress with an obvious weak link even in your budget range when there are good quality options available to you in the same budget range that donāt have a weak link. No matter what you pay for a mattress ā¦ if it loses its comfort and/or support in a relatively short period of time and you you need to buy a new mattress (or need to ātolerateā the old one and pay the price of pain, discomfort, or lower quality of sleep) then even with the discount it would have little value to you.
Having said all that ā¦ and assuming that you have done some careful and objective testing on the Genius using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post and itās a good match for you in terms of PPP (at least for now) ā¦ if the price you mentioned includes an electric adjustable bed then it may be worth considering for the adjustable bed alone (depending on the size you are looking at and which adjustable bed is included in the price).
Phoenix
Phoenix,
I wish I had found this site and your posts before I bought a mattress. Your posts are excellent. Having said that, I just purchased a icomfort genius for $1700. After reading your posts it would appear that I have made a giant mistake.
However I was wondering if you could advise me on how to make this mattress last. I am already considering putting a high quality memory foam, latex, or some type of topper. Do you have a suggestion for what type of topper I could look at preferably one that is high density/quality like you recommend but also is cooler?
When we were at the store I made the calculation that we would like something on the firmer side however the Savant felt perfect. I figured it wouldnāt feel perfect for long and after reading your posts you confirmed my suspicion. That being said I was wondering if you think that by obtaining the proper mattress topper we could not only increase the longevity of the bed but also make it feel like the savant?
I would like to just return the mattress and get something else however it is too late for that now and the store I am working with only sells Serta products, so to return a crappy mattress for another crappy mattress doesnāt sound good. Besides you can only exchange for something of equal or more value (these mattress salesman really work you over). We would have just bought the mattresses at costco had we known.
thanks,
Tony
Hi Reb_enfilade,
Any topper can increase the useful life of a mattress underneath it to varying degrees (depending on the specifics of the mattress and the topper) because it will take up some of the compression forces that are the main cause for foam softening and breakdown in the upper layers of a mattress. Since a topper will generally soften or break down faster than the mattress underneath it ā¦ a topper also has the advantage that you can replace it without having to replace the entire mattress.
More important than making the mattress last longer though is making sure that a mattress/topper combination is a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) because there is little point in having a long lasting sleeping system if you canāt sleep well on it. The main reason to choose a topper would be to add additional pressure relief and comfort to a mattress that is otherwise too firm and any additional longevity would be a side effect of the process.
There is more about trying to āmatchā one mattress to another one in post #9 here but the Genius and the Savant are two completely different mattress designs with different combinations of materials so you wonāt be able to āmatchā the Genius to the Savant unless you were to remove the top layers in the Genius (the layers over the support core which are the same in both) and replace them with the same type and thickness of materials in the Savant which of course isnāt possible.
Rather than trying to āmatchā another mattress ā¦ I would focus on choosing a topper that in combination with your mattress has the best chance of providing you with the additional softness and pressure relief that you need and I would use the information in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to to help you use your actual sleeping experience on the Genius to help you decide on how much additional softness, thickness, and pressure relief you need so that your sleeping system will be a good match for you in terms of PPP. Because there are so many variables involved and because the only way to know for certain that a mattress/topper combination will work well for you is based on your actual sleeping experience, it can sometimes take some trial and error to choose a topper that is the best match for a specific mattress and person so the return and exchange policy for a topper purchase may also be an important part of your choice so that if the topper you choose doesnāt work as well as you hoped it would you still have the option to exchange it for another one.
If you seem to prefer the feel of sleeping on memory foam (based on the mattress you purchased) ā¦ then it would make sense to purchase a memory foam topper so that your sleeping surface has the āfeelā that you prefer and it may also be worth considering a gel memory foam which will tend to have a faster response than most non gel memory foams.
Phoenix
Phoenix thank you for the response and good information. I think that we are in need of the 2 inch foam as we still like it firm etc. In the post I was not able to find anything about temperature. Based on the mattress toppers mentioned in the āFoam Factoryā¦#4ā post I was wondering which option sleeps the coolest:
- Latex
- Shredded Latex
- Polyfoam
- Memory Foam
- Gel Foam
- column gel
What out of these options is the top three coolest? Is there a particular brand that is known for making a good cooler mattress topper?
I admire that in the one post that lady was able to get a refund. I am not sure if that is possible as the sales lady said to us when we bought it no refundsā¦ exchanges only. So we bought the firmest icomfort mattress. But it sounds like the layer that is responsible for the firmness is going to give out quickly due to its lack of density. Sad!! Serta really needs to work on quality. They are big company and have the money to do so. There is no excuse for this.
thanks,
-Tony
Hi Reb_enfilade,
[quote] Based on the mattress toppers mentioned in the āFoam Factoryā¦#4ā post I was wondering which option sleeps the coolest:
- Latex
- Shredded Latex
- Polyfoam
- Memory Foam
- Gel Foam
- column gel
What out of these options is the top three coolest? Is there a particular brand that is known for making a good cooler mattress topper?[/quote]
There is more about all the many variables that can affect sleeping temperature in post # 2 here and it will depend to some degree on the specific properties of the material itself because every material category includes versions of the same general material that have higher and lower airflow (and in most cases the specs about the airflow in a specific material are not available). It will also depend on the the type of mattress protector and sheets that you are using which can also have a significant effect on sleeping temperature but in very general terms materials with a higher airflow will tend to sleep cooler than materials that have a lower airflow. This means that for most people ā¦ and in very general terms only ā¦ shredded latex would tend to sleep cooler than a solid latex topper (and Talalay would tend to have more airflow than Dunlop), followed by polyfoam and gel memory foam and non gel memory foam would tend to be the most insulating of all. Natural fibers such as wool would be more temperature regulating than foam materials but they tend to feel firmer than foam toppers.
Buckling column gel has large spaces inside it but itās specific effect on temperature would depend on the airflow of the materials that were above and below it which would affect the airflow through the spaces themselves.
I would also keep in mind that a topper over memory foam can also reduce the amount of heat that can reach the memory foam which can affect the amount it softens or the length of time it takes to soften when you sleep on it so a softer topper over memory foam can also firm up the memory foam underneath it which can change the āfeelā of the mattress depending on how deeply you sink into the upper layers.
The brand of a topper isnāt as important as the specific properties of the material because every manufacturer makes a range of toppers. A conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced supplier is generally the most reliable source of information about the toppers that they sell and how it compares to other types of toppers that use the same type of material.
I would agree with you that a 2" layer would be a good āaverageā choice that would provide a ālittle to a fair bitā of additional softness and would have less risk of creating alignment issues than a thicker topper.
Unfortunately this is also the case with most of the major manufacturers who are more concerned with selling āprofit marginsā to their customers (which are the larger retailers that sell them not consumers) than they are on providing the type of information that can help consumers make more informed and more suitable choices. They operate in a very different way from most of the smaller manufacturers that are much more focused on their reputation and providing higher quality and better value to their customers which are actual consumers rather than larger stores which sell their products. There is more about this in post #12 here.
As sad as it may be ā¦ the members here that have spent more than an hour or two on this site will generally know more meaningful information about mattresses and mattress materials than most of the salespeople who sell them in the mainstream industry.
Phoenix
Phoenix thanks for your responses. You have been very helpful. I just purchased the 5lb memory foam topper from Brooklyn bedding see link below:
brooklynbedding.com/mattress-toppers/5lb-memory-foam-topper
I didnāt think to ask but maybe you would know. Does 5 lb mean it weighs a total of 5 lbs or does that mean it has a foam density of 5lb. I am hoping it means the latter. Either way they say on the site it is their highest quality
Thanks
Tony
Hi Reb_enfilade,
You certainly made a high quality choice and Iām looking forward to your feedback when you receive it :).
The 5 lbs is the density which is the weight per cubic foot (the actual weight will be much more). 5 lb density memory foam is a high quality and durable material.
Phoenix
Thanks Phoenix I just received it today and will sleep on it a few nights and post a review
However I was wondering what your thoughts were on why Serta continues to choose to use 1lb density foam in their icomfort series beds? Does it really save them that much money on their bottom line? I mean to compromise the reputation of your ātop of the lineā series of beds is really a bad business move.
It cannot be that expensive to put a higher density foam in these beds. Especially for a company this size.
I browsed Sertaās website and looked at the reviews for a bunch of the icomfort series beds ie: Genius and Savant. If you look at the negative reviews 75% of them talk about how the bed was great for about 6 months to one year and then how it started to sag. Again this is very puzzling to me for a company this size to make such a simple mistake.
-Tony
Hi Reb_enfilade,
I canāt speak for Serta of course but in general itās because they cost less (which improves margins) and because they can since consumers in general (and most retailers for that matter) donāt know any better and have little idea about the quality of the materials in the mattresses they are either buying or selling.
Itās also not just Serta because most of the major brands also use lower quality/density materials in their mattresses. You can read more about this in many posts throughout the forum such as post #12 here and post #404 here and post #3 here.
Itās not a āmistakeā as much as by design. They are well aware that these materials are less durable. A mattress that doesnāt last as long will need to replaced more quickly which will also increase sales and profits.
Phoenix
Phoenix,
On Sertaās website they have answered the question why they only use 1.5 lbs density foam in their icomfort series. They state that:
""Yes, densities can relate to foam durability when they get below 1.2 lbs per cubic foot. However, densities higher than 1.2 lbs do not necessarily translate into greater durability. Foam technology advancements have allowed manufacturers to develop better foams at lower weights in terms of: resiliency, memory, air flow, temperature management, feel and durability. Many factors should be considered in establishing the quality of particular foam. Each performance feature desired can affect the density necessary for that particular list of features. Serta does not add unnecessary weight to our foams as this practice would only add to the cost of the product without any benefit to the customer.
- See more at: Serta.com""
It looks like I may have found a way out of my icomfort genius, however I am still stuck with the Serta Perfect Sleeper either way as they will not let me out of that one. Although maybe a dumb question but why would Serta make the above assertion unless they are just blatantly misrepresenting the facts. And if they are this is reprehensible.
My wife and I both weigh about 150 lbs. we are not super heavy. Do you think 1.5 lbs could actually work for us? I wonder if 1.5 is just not enough for folks that are heavier.
thanks again for your comments,
Tony
Hi Reb_enfilade,
[quote]It looks like I may have found a way out of my icomfort genius. I just want to be absolutely sure I shouldnāt get this mattress. Why would Serta make the above assertion unless they are just blatantly misrepresenting the facts. And if they are this is reprehensible.
My wife and I both weigh about 150 lbs. we are not super heavy. Do you think 1.5 lbs could actually work for us? I wonder if 1.5 is just not enough for folks that are heavier.[/quote]
The Serta website will tell you what they want their customers to believe (or hope they will). While this may not be a āblatantā misrepresentation of the facts ā¦ it is certainly incomplete and misleading. It will also make a difference whether you are looking at comfort layers or support layers. While a support core that is 1.5 lb density would generally be fine if you are in a lighter weight range because the weakest link is generally in the comfort layers of a mattress ā¦ the same wouldnāt be true in a one sided mattress that used 1.5 lb polyfoam (or lower) or lower quality memory foam (under 4 lb density) in the comfort layers.
They also have a few contradictions on their site. If you look at the Serta glossary here ā¦ you will see the following ā¦
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: Mattress Guides - Serta Comfort 101
And yet if you look at some of the foam densities in some of their iComfort mattresses that they list in their questions page here (scroll down to the question about āPD Applause vs Vantageā) or their page here (scroll down to the question about āiComfort Directions Reinvention - thickness & layers?ā) ā¦ you will see some very low density polyfoam in the 1.2 lb range and if you go to their page here (scroll down to the question about āWhat is the foam density for each layer of the iComfort Prodigy mattress?ā) or their page here (scroll down to the question about āWhat is the density of iComfort Renewal Refined (pounds/ft)?ā you will see two of many examples of mattresses that use 3 lb memory foam which is a low density memory foam.
There is more about the most important parts of the āvalueā of a mattress purchase in post #13 here and you can see the guidelines I would suggest using for foam densities in post #4 here. There is also much more information about the many variables that can affect durability and the useful life of a mattress relative to each person in post #4 here and the posts it links to.
Phoenix
Phoenix,
I cannot seem to find any 1" memory foam mattress toppers on the websites listed in the topper guidelines post. Is there anywhere off the top of your head that you have found a quality 1" piece of memory foam? I am almost thinking i should just go latex at 2" but a firmer ild perhaps? Considering I like the firmness of the Icomfort Genius where would you rate that on an ILD scale?
The one I am looking at has a foam density of 3" and it is this one:
It says it is 3lb density in details.
Hi Reb_enfilade,
1" memory foam toppers are a little more difficult to find. I donāt know any of the members here that sell them but there are some listed on the sears page here that are 1" - 1.5" thick. Foamorder also sells 1" thick memory foam toppers and some of the polyfoam suppliers such as A1 Foam & Fabrics and http://www.foamonline.com/ also sell memory foam in 1" thicknesses. I would make sure you check densities because they will range from less than 3 lbs to 5 lb density. In the case of a topper then 3 lb density/durability isnāt as big an issue because if it breaks down faster than a higher density memory foam then they are also fairly inexpensive and can be replaced without replacing the whole mattress. The biggest issue with lower density memory foams is that they may not perform as well as higher density memory foams.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: a1foamandfabrics.com/site/foam_detail.cfm?sid=10
The choice between memory foam and latex would be a preference choice. There is more about how they compare in post #2 here. The topper guidelines for thickness and firmness include the reference points and suggestions I would use to improve your odds of choosing the most suitable topper but beyond that it will really be a matter of trying it to see how well a topper works for you on the mattress you are using it on.
Mattresses donāt have ILDās (only individual foam layers) and every layer in a mattress will have an effect on all the other layers so the firmness of any particular layer may not relate to the firmness of the mattress as a whole. Serta also doesnāt normally provide information about the firmness or ILD of their individual layers. There are also other factors besides just ILD that can affect how soft or firm an individual layer will feel for any particular person (see post #4 here).
There are also no standardized firmness ratings between manufacturers so a mattress that is rated as āmedium firmā with one manufacturer may be rated as a āmediumā or a āfirmā by another manufacturer. Firmness is also very subjective and relative to each person so what feels too soft for one person can feel too firm for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping positions, and preferences and sensitivities. The only way to know how firm or soft a mattress feels for you would be based on your own personal testing or sleeping experience regardless of how anyone else may rate it. Only you can feel what you feel on a mattress (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
Memory foam can also be somewhat tricky because the ILD of memory foam also changes with temperature, humidity, and the length of time it is continuously compressed and how firm a memory foam topper feels will also vary based on the specific properties of the memory foam other than just ILD (see post #9 here and post #8 here).
Since firmness is so subjective and relative to different people that can have a very different sense of what feels firm or soft for them ā¦ I would go by your own experience and perceptions on your mattress in combination with the suggestions in the topper guidelines so that you choose a topper based on using your actual experience on a mattress as a reference point.
When you canāt test a mattress/topper combination in person ā¦ the three most important parts of choosing a topper are ā¦
-
Using the topper guidelines and your own preferences between different materials that you are familiar with to give you a reference point for the type, thickness, and firmness of a topper that has a reasonable chance of success.
-
Talking to the suppliers you are considering (assuming that they are knowledgeable about their products) so they can describe the toppers they are selling to give you a sense of how they compare to others that they sell or are available in the market.
-
Making sure you are comfortable with the return or exchange policies and the costs involved so that you have some āinsuranceā to offset the uncertainty and risk involved in choosing a topper just in case you make a choice that doesnāt work as well as you hoped for.
Phoenix