The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz

Hi Budgy,

Good to see you here again :slight_smile:

I did a rough estimate of the density of the gel memory foam in the Serta based on the shipping weight on amazon here and it worked out to close to 5 lbs (4.72 lbs/cu ft).

I also tested the iComforts in a store and had a chance to see and feel some samples of the sample foams that are used in the Prodigy. The gel memory foam seemed to me to be fairly dense and seemed to confirm my previous calculation of close to 5lbs. The KoolComfort memory foam was MUCH lighter and seemed to me to be closer to 3 lb. I doubt it was even 4. The slow response latex was a continuous pour dunlop with no pincores. They didnā€™t have a sample of the 1" of polyfoam which is in between the memory foam layers in the Revolution but it certainly would be low density and soft. The owner at the store was very interested in what I was doing and we talked about the mattress underground and the industry in general and had a great conversation while I was testing out his mattresses. We both agreed (and his customer feedback indicated as well) that they were most like the Tempurpedic cloud series although the tempur foam is IMO is a better quality.

I didnā€™t actually measure and weigh the samples he had but there is no doubt in my mind that of the 5.75" of foam in the Revolution comfort layer, 3" of it is what I would call the typical low quality junk that I see so often in the ā€œname brandsā€ while only the gel memory foam is what I would call reasonable quality.

A far as the base foam goes ā€¦ I would guess that it would be 1.8 or higher but I truly doubt that it is as high quality as the tempurpedic 2.2 ā€¦ although I donā€™t know that for sure. While I wish they were more transparent about what they put in their mattresses ā€¦ we both know thatā€™s not likely to happen :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Thanks Phoenix,

Yeah I hope we made the right business decision skipping over itā€¦to be honest I loved the feel of the stuff. But the lack of transparency is something we have a real hard time with. Low density memory foams feel greatā€¦but for how long, and how much support do they really give? Seems to me that these mattresses should have lower retail prices than they doā€¦you and I both know that Tempur is also realistically over priced. But if we pretend for a moment they were worth every penny, they spend a lot of money on advertising and the iComfort beds are not heavily marketed in the same manner, they are almost as expensive. To me the Revolution felt most similar to the Cloud Supremeā€¦the Supreme being a tad bit firmer, in Canada they are the same price.

Hi Budgy,

FWIW ā€¦ I would have done the same thing even though they might feel good (I even thought they were OK ā€¦ more the lower end ones than the upper end ones which are just way too thick IMO ā€¦ which is unusual for me to say when it comes to memory foam :)).

In the end I think ā€¦ it will be like when you got rid of the major manufacturers on your floor even though they ā€œfelt goodā€ to a lot of people on the floor and ā€œfor a whileā€ after that. I just wish that every mattress outlet made the same type of difficult decisions that you have for the sake of their long term reputation and integrity. I have a hard time believing that the foam in the iComfort will hold up for any reasonable length of time in terms of softening and degrading ā€¦ even though it will likely stay under the impression exclusion with no weight on it. I have an even harder time with the fact that they are similar in price to the Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme in Canada. In the US ā€¦ the Cloud Supreme on the Tempurpedic website is $2599 (queen) and the online price at places like US-Mattress or Sears for the Revolution is $1774.

Phoenix

Your ā€˜FWIWā€™ means a lot to me :slight_smile:

And clearly you understand our goals, tough decisions; but I think we make the right decision to simply remain focused on what we already do well. It is really interesting you point out the price disparity in US/Canada Pricing, the gap on Tempur has become narrower in the last couple years, and from what I understand when the new Contour Signature beds come to Canada (early 2012) they will be basically American pricing. I consider this to be very good on their part, the shipping costs in Canada are so much higher than in the US, I know this cuts into our profit margins significantly (from a retailer or manufacturer perspective).

I suppose we will see what the reviews on this product look like after more time has passed, but it certainly is very popular right now.

Good Morning,

DH and I are mattress shopping and we came across the ICOMFORT REVOLUTION. I really like the mattress, but I am not in love with the price. We were quoted like $2800 out of the door.

Our alternative was the Stearns and Foster Maplevale, which also feels lovely ā€œin the storeā€ and the salesman touts ā€œthis is the Cadillac of S&Fā€. I need support, since I experience pressure point pain, around my hip area.

Anyway, I donā€™t want to skimp on comfort, but I also donā€™t want to pay $3k as it is out of our budget, we wanted to be closer to under or up to $2k out the door.

We are looking for a KING bedā€¦ any suggestions?

This forum has a wealth of info and I am a little overwhelmed, since we are on a bit of a timeline. I gave our bedroom set to my daughter, so now we need a replacement STAT! :lol:

We are in Phoenix AZ area.

Thank you very much for any input or suggestions :slight_smile:

Me- about 150# / 5ā€™7- side / stomach sleeper
DH- about 225# / 5ā€™11 - side / back sleeper

Hello sleepy-in-az,

Iā€™ll make a few quick comments before I give some more specific suggestions.

When you are looking at mattresses that contain foam in the upper layers ā€¦ there are three types of foam you will encounter. Polyfoam, memory foam, and latex foam.

Of these three ā€¦ polyfoam should be avoided (preferable at all but certainly no more than an inch) as it will soften and break down much more quickly ā€¦ no matter how good it feels in the store. It is the cheapest foam of the three.

If you particularly like the feel of memory foam ā€¦ then quality is determined to a large degree by density or lbs per cubic foot. 5 lbs/cu ft is considered to be the threshhold for high quality memory foam however some people donā€™t like the slower recovery and ā€œdeadā€ feeling or the higher sleeping temperature of many higher density foams and in this case a 4 lb memory foam or a more open celled memory foam is chosen as they are more breathable, cooler and have a little faster recovery ā€¦ even though they would typically be less durable. Lower quality memory foams (under 4 lbs) have the same durability issues as polyfoam and should be avoided completely. There are cooler and hotter memory foams depending on the cell structure but all of them tend to sleep hotter than the other two foams.

Latex foam (rubber foam) has a unique combination of qualities that makes it the highest quality foam that can be used in a mattress. It is very elastic, supportive, and by far the longest lasting of all the foams. In a comfort layer it can be as pressure relieving as memory foam (if the correct foam softness is chosen for the individual), and it is the coolest of all the foams.

Most of the major brands (like Sealy, Simmmons, Serta, Stearns & Foster, Comfort Solutions (King Koil) and many others) use polyfoam in the upper layers of their mattress. They should be avoided as they will break down far too soon and there will be ā€œsoft spotsā€ in the mattress far too soon. Even their best mattresses are significantly overpriced compared to smaller local or regional manufacturers who use much higher quality materials but charge much less than the major brands. All the major brands use various ā€œtricksā€ (same mattress under many different names for example) to make meaningful comparison shopping based on materials and what is inside the mattress almost impossible for the average consumer. They sell their mattresses based on an initial perception in the store and are not open at all about the materials they use in their mattress which is the most important part of buying a mattress.

The Stearns and Foster you are looking at has at least 4" of polyfoam in the upper layers of the mattress and a meaningless .79" of latex for label copy so that they can say they use latex. This much polyfoam should always be avoided or if is necessary to use polyfoam ā€¦ it should only be because your budget is in the extreme lower end of the range (which yours isnā€™t) and purchased from an outlet who is very knowledgeable about the different grades of polyfoam. Polyfoam comfort layers are the cheapest foams, have the lowest durability, and have the lowest level of ā€œperformanceā€ of all the foams.

The iComfort Revolution has 5.75" of foam in the comfort layers. Of this ā€¦ 2.75" is approximately 5 lb gel memory foam but above this is 1" of cheap polyfoam and then another 2" of a different kind of memory foam (what they call KoolComfort) which is a much lower quality and less dense memory foam. So this mattress has 3" of lower quality foam on top and 2" of reasonable quality memory foam over the support core.

In other words ā€¦ both of these mattresses cater to the initial perceptions of a consumer in the store. These initial perceptions are very subjective and rarely translate into actual pressure relief and spinal alignment (the two main functions of a mattress) and real comfort in actual use. The foam that created these initial perceptions will also soften and degrade much too quickly and this softening and internal degrading is not covered under warranty as the actual depressions in a mattress happen long after the foam has internally softened and become unsuitable for use and even then the impressions have to be over the warranty exclusion so warranty claims are rarely honored.

So the bottom line is that either higher quality memory foam or latex foam should be the materials of choice in the comfort layers of a mattress.

Under the comfort layers ā€¦ either polyfoam, innersprings, or latex foam is fine. In the support layers, polyfoam in a higher and firmer grade doesnā€™t have the same breakdown issues as it does in the comfort layers although even here it is important to use higher quality polyfoam. Innersprings range from poor to good but most in this price range are fine. Latex will outperform and outlast both of these in the support layer however a latex core is also more expensive.

Three of the top 4 manufacturers and their subsidiaries (Sealy (which owns Stearns & Foster), Simmons and Serta (both owned by the Ontario Teachers Federation), control about 50% of the mattress market share. Tempurpedic dominates the ā€œspecialty memory foamā€ market. All of these spend enormous amounts on advertising in co-operation with the mass market outlets that they closely co-operate with and are generally poor value compared to many other options. This advertising is designed to mislead and create brand loyalty rather than inform the consumer about materials and how to meaningfully compare mattresses. The top 6 manufacturers control about 75% of the market. Of the remaining 25% ā€¦ many manufacturers follow the same path as the majors and manufacture and sell mattresses designed to cater to initial impressions in a store rather than a consumer who actually knows the different mattress materials and knows how to test whether a mattress will be pressure relieving, supportive, and truly comfortable in real life use over the long term. This is why independent manufacturers who sell factory direct and smaller sleep shops who have the knowledge and take the time to help you find out how each mattress they sell will fit an individual consumer are the only places where there is real value in a mattress. Unfortunately they are usually overwhelmed by the advertising and presence of the major manufacturers and the mass marketing outlets that depend on each other to sell cheaper materials at inflated prices.

There is a set of guidelines in post #6 here which will help you bypass all the misleading information and traps you are likely to encounter along the way.

You are fortunate that 2 of our members are in the Phoenix area and like all of our members and other high quality independent manufacturers, manufacture and sell among the highest value mattresses available in North America.

They are ā€¦

Both of these specialize in latex mattresses that can be customized to each individual. They also carry some memory foam options. They will share their knowledge with you about different materials and give you accurate and helpful information about their different mattresses. I have had extensive conversations with both of them and have come to trust them for their knowledge and the quality and value of their mattresses which is why I invited them to become members here.

There is one other manufacturer in or near Phoenix who I have talked with that I would also consider as a good source which is
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If you decide to purchase from one of the manufacturing members here ā€¦ then donā€™t forget to mention that you are a member (you have registered and posted in the forum) as that will give you an additional 5% discount on what are already very high quality and value mattresses.

I am guessing based on the prices you quoted (which were much higher than these mattresses alone or with a regular base) that you may also be looking at some type of an adjustable base rather than just a regular firm base as well? Iā€™m mentioning this because the iComfort revolution King is normally in the range of $2200 and the S&F King is in the range of $1800 - 1900 depending on the model. A lower end electric adjustable bed (with head and foot elevation) in ā€œsplit kingā€ would be $1500 or in many cases significantly more depending on brand or model. If the prices you quoted were for either a mattress alone or a mattress with a regular base ā€¦ then they were higher than the norm for these two mattresses. If the prices were for these two mattresses with an electric adjustable bed with head and foot adjustment ā€¦ then they are significantly lower than ā€œnormalā€.

The best prices I have seen for adjustable bases is here
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although if you purchase a mattress and a base together then you may get a discount from a local outlet. There are also other ways available to change the position of the mattress that are lower cost if that is what you are looking for although they donā€™t have the same convenience or electronic features as an electric adjustable base. I wanted to mention this so that any mattress comparisons are ā€œapple to appleā€ comparisons.

I know this was a somewhat long reply but hopefully it will help you ā€œcut throughā€ the noise and confusion and help you find a truly high quality and value mattress an/or sleep system that will last you for a long time.

Phoenix

WOW!!! :cheer:

Thank you so much for your feedback! I appreciate the details!!! :slight_smile:

While looking at one of the recommended members, here is what I came across King All Natural Talalay w/Free Bamboo Cover Upgrade

This sounds ideal, but I am unsure of what it is that I want and I havenā€™t finished exploring all of the optionsā€¦ I am pretty sure I donā€™t want soft / softā€¦ and I donā€™t want extremely firm, although support is important for my pressure points (specifically in my hips)ā€¦ Purchasing a mattress ā€œvirtuallyā€ is a little scary, but with your expertise, ironically feel more at ease :slight_smile:

Ok, so, I really like the feel of the ICOMFORT REVOLUTION. Which firmness would you suggest to have a similar support system?

Thank you again for your help and you are so prompt!

Sleepy-

Hi sleepy-in-az,

All of these manufacturers have actual stores in Phoenix where you can go and test the mattresses personally. The 2 that are members also sell online as they have ā€œchoose your ownā€ layering which is a popular way of duplicating another mattress when there isnā€™t a local manufacturer which has high value mattresses nearby ā€¦ but in your case you have the best of both worlds where you can actually go and lay on the mattresses you are considering and test for the type of layering that works best for you.

Memory foam is all considered soft and has an ILD (a measure of firmness/softness) of under 15 (which is very soft). This is a little misleading though with memory foam though because it can feel much firmer initially when it is not warmed up with body temperature/pressure and it also responds more slowly than other foams so if you push on it quickly it feels firmer but if you push on it slowly it ā€œgivesā€ more easily. This is why denser memory foam can feel firmer initially but you will slowly sink into it as it warms up with body heat and pressure. It is a much more ā€œgradualā€ foam than latex. The densest memory foams are actually slower than the lower densities but they are better at pressure relief because they form to your body better. All memory foam is too soft to be used as a support layer (it canā€™t hold up your heavier parts) so it is only used in the top few inches of a mattress. It is a pressure relieving material but has the worst support qualities of all the foams which is why all memory foam mattresses use polyfoam (mostly) or latex foam in the middle and lower layers.

Latex responds more instantly to movement. This is also why it is easier to change positions or move on latex than on memory foam. Itā€™s more ā€œlivelyā€ and more breathable (doesnā€™t sleep as hot). It comes in a range from soft to firm so the softer versions (lower ILDā€™s) can be used on the top of a mattress (like memory foam) to relieve pressure but the firmer versions also make the most effective support layers in a mattress (unlike memory foam).

They are very different in feel though because they respond to pressure differently ā€¦ although they are about equal in pressure relief because they are both so good at taking on the shape of your body profile. Typically, a comfort layer (the top few inches of the mattress that needs to be soft to relieve pressure) in latex is from 19 - 24 ILD which is firmer but more instant than memory foam. Latex can be made in an ILD as low as 14 (similar to memory foam) but this is much less common or necessary. This comfort layer is the part that shapes itself to your sleeping profile which spreads the weight out and relieves pressure. Latex takes on your shape quickly, memory foam takes on your shape more slowly.

The layers under the comfort layer (either memory foam or latex) need to be firmer as this is the part that holds up your heavier parts. This can either be polyfoam (which is under most memory foam mattresses) or latex foam (which is much higher quality and supports much better than polyfoam but is more expensive).

The thickness and softness of the comfort layer is determined mostly by weight, body shape, and your sleeping positions. Side sleeping needs thicker and softer (more pointy parts like hips and shoulders that tend to have pressure issues), back sleeping need something ā€œin the middleā€ and stomach sleeping needs the thinnest comfort layer of all. The reason for the thicker comfort layer for side sleepers is mainly to allow the shoulders to sink in enough so they are in alignment with the hips and the pressure in both hips and shoulders their can be relieved. The thicker comfort layer will also fill in the recessed gaps in the waist so the lumbar/waist has support.

The firmness of the support layers under the comfort layers depends on weight and body shape as well. Most people have heavier hips and the support layers need to be firm enough to stop your hips from sinking in too much and causing your spine to bend out of alignment and causing lower back issues. Typically a support layer will have an ILD of at least 28 and they go up to about 44 (Extra firm).

So the comfort layers relieve pressure ā€¦ the support layers keep you in alignment.

What I would suggest is that you go into the stores and lay on some latex and compare the feel and different ILDā€™s and layerings of latex to memory foam and you will quickly get a sense (with their help as they are all very knowledgeable and helpful) of the layering that gives you the best pressure relief and alignment in all your sleeping positions and you will know the difference in how they feel.

You are fortunate because you have the chance to actually test mattresses that many people around the country are ordering online when they donā€™t have a local factory direct manufacturer nearby.

Phoenix

[quote=ā€œPhoenixā€ post=590]Hi Lisa,

Foamex (now called FXI) is a company that manufactures polyfoam and memory foam. They have a rather unique method of manufacturing foam called VPF which produces very high quality foam IMO. They make a memory foam called Aerus which is a more breathable and cooler version of memory foam. While a more ā€œopen celledā€ foam is also manufactured by other foam producers using various chemical methods, holes in the foam, air channels, and gel infusions ā€¦ the Aerus is among the most breathable of these. It is normally seen in 4 lb density in places like Sams Club and Walmart ā€¦ it also comes in 5 lb versions that is used by some manufacturers and is alos available in toppers. They also make Sensus memory foam which is less breathable and slower responding but is also a very high quality memory foam.

Since the Sams Club and the Amazon mattresses are using the same Aerus memory foam (made by Foamex), and the Sams club has a thicker layer of polyfoam underneath it (which will likely make it a bit softer overall) and it is also a lower cost, and has a free return privilege, ā€¦ the Sams club is clearly a better value IMO.

The Night Therapy brand is made by Zinus which is a Chinese manufacturer which is CertiPur certified. They donā€™t list the density of the memory foam which could be either 3 or 4 lbs (Zinus usually is in this range). I would choose Aerus over this even if the night therapy was 4 lb even though the Night Therapy is a little lower. I would not buy any 3 lb memory foam at all.

The Novaform gel memory foam at Costco is a lower density version of the gel memory foam in the iComfort. I roughly calculated it to be about 4 lb overall so it doesnā€™t surprise me that you were told what you were told. It is basically a lower quality memory foam that is infused with gel (which weighs more than memory foam) so it will ā€œactā€ and ā€œweighā€ more like a higher density foam. While the gel may work to cool down the foam somewhat (just like a countertop feels cooler because it draws heat from your body) ā€¦ I have not seen any evidence that it actually has that big an effect in real life. It is also true that the heavier gel makes the foam seem denser than it would be without it however it is still lower quality memory foam with heavier gel infused in it and will likely suffer the same or similar early breakdown that is part of low density memory foamss in general. I personally would choose the Aerus over the gel memory foam as I believe it has better value. Having said that ā€¦ the gel does make it ā€œactā€ a little different so some people may prefer its feel.

If there is a local manufacturer near you (I posted an LA list in the previous post) that offers 5 lb foam this will often represent your best value as you can test to see exactly how it fits your circumstances in terms of pressure relief and alignment rather than having to ā€œguessā€ with an online memory foam outlet.

Some of the online choices in this thread (particularly post #4) may also be worth considering. While they are higher in price than the Sams Club Aerus ā€¦ they also in some cases use higher quality memory foam (5 lb or higher) and/or in other cases give you the opportunity to adjusts the support layers under the memory foam to ā€œfine tuneā€ the mattress to your needs.

Phoenix[/quote]

Hi Phoenix,
Thank you for your response. I ended up trying the Ortho from the store and they had a 10in memory foam and felt good but the price was out of my range. So I ended up ordering the one from Sams Club just because of their great warranty. I tried out the bed last night and my back is hurtingā€¦is there a break in period?

Also I am checking out the one you mention from https://www.flexuscomfort.com/. They have a special for Cal King for $500 for the set. They indicated they have 5lbs memory foam but is only 8.5 inch thick.

I have a few questions:

  1. Would it be a better bed if I got the https://www.flexuscomfort.com/ and returned my Sams Club one?
  2. Is there a difference between 12 inch (Sams Club) vs 8.5 inch (https://www.flexuscomfort.com/)
  3. Is there a break in period for memory foam

Thanks again Phoenix for all your help.

Hi Phoenix,

Iā€™m back :blush:

So, we stopped by Sleep Ezā€¦ interesting little set upā€¦ DH did not like the Sleep Select systems. We tried a the ones that they had modeled and he just wasnā€™t sold on them. We tried and liked the ā€œLUXURIONā€- 3" Natural latex with 6" Soy base support foam-- Itā€™s not pillow top though.

The price is great and its comfortable, but I feel a little buyerā€™s remorse :frowning: It has to be made and we should have it by Wednesday, but now I am uncertain if I made the right choice, and I cannot find any reviews about this bed!:dry:

Can you tell me a comparable mattress to the 3" Latex / 6" Soy base support foam? I would just like to have more info than the brief description provided on the site (though, I did try it out in the store).

Thank you again for your help!

*Oh and I mentioned ā€œmattress undergroundā€ and the woman that was helping us looked at me with a blank lookā€¦ and come time to pay, the total didnā€™t include a discountā€¦ Didnā€™t even think about it or realize it.

Hi Lisa,

The most important part of any mattress is that it provides pressure relief and keeps your spine in alignment in all your sleeping positions. Everything after that is about durability (quality of materials and construction and how long will it perform these functions), preferences (all the subjective factors that are part of ā€œcomfortā€ for each person), and value (the price you would pay for one mattress that provides you with the ā€œmixā€ of features that you need and want vs the price of another that will do the same). If a mattress doesnā€™t do the two things that are most important (pressure relief and alignment), then no matter how good its ā€œvalueā€ or quality or how good it feels in the store ā€¦ it isnā€™t the mattress for that individual.

Every different type of material or mattress has a wide variety of different types and layering and construction methods ā€¦ all of which are designed to help different people with different weights, body shapes, sleeping positions, preferences, and budgets to find a mattress that relieves pressure, keeps you in alignment, feels good while you are on it, and will last as long as your budget allows. There are stories of people who have purchased a $50,000 mattress that will last a lifetime, but the mattress didnā€™t do what they needed and wanted it to do and it would be a lifetime of poor sleep. Many others purchase a ā€œperfectā€ mattress for $500 or $1000 that will only last a few years ā€¦ but those few years would be years of great sleep. Others yet purchase a budget mattress that also didnā€™t do what they needed or wanted it to do and they would have a few years of poor sleep.

No matter what your budget ā€¦ the most important part of buying a mattress is PPP. Pressure relief, Posture, and Preference. More than anything your budget will determine how ā€œperfectlyā€ and how long the materials and construction of your mattress does this.

Each consumer really faces a choice between learning how to ā€œcontructā€ a mattress which satisfies all these things for them or finding a reliable outlet that can be trusted to do this for them. An online purchase will generally require more education to replace the ability to actually test the mattress. Most will choose a combination of the two (education and reliable advice from a knowledgeable outlet that has the customers best interest in mind). For most people ā€¦ the reliable advice is the most difficult to find and they often end up buying a mattress that is either completely overpriced or may have great value for someone else but doesnā€™t have the PPP for that person.

Because there are so many variables ā€¦ the easiest and ā€œbestā€ choice for most is a local manufacturer. As a group they generally have much better value but most important of all ā€¦ they will have the knowledge and expertise to ā€œfitā€ a mattress to your needs and preferences inside your budget. They will also be able to tell you why a mattress costs more or less than another so you can make informed choices. These types of factory direct outlets and/or sleep shops that sell mattresses that ā€œfitā€ with great value are worth their weight in gold ā€¦ especially if you can actually go there and test their mattresses and take advantage of their expertise in person. Nothing will ever be as ā€œaccurateā€ as personally testing a mattress in combination with knowing how to compare one mattress to another.

Without knowing how or being able to test a mattress for how it fits you for PPP ā€¦ you are somewhat rolling the dice unless you or the place you buy it from knows how to ā€œmatchā€ the online purchase with mattresses you have tested locally for PPP. If there is ever a choice between a local manufacturer (such as Flexus) or sleep shop who ā€œknows their stuffā€, (and puts your needs, budget, and preferences above their profit) and an online purchase, there is no doubt in my mind that I would go with the local manufacturer or a sleep shop who sells them over an online purchase. Without taking into account how a mattress fits and interacts with your unique needs and preferences, then you may end up with a high value mattress (based on price, durability, quality and materials) that doesnā€™t work for you.

All memory foam will soften (break in) over the first 90 days or so. The more closed cell and ā€œslow reactingā€ varieties of memory foam more so than the more open cell (faster reacting) varieties. There is often a few week adjustment period as well for any mattress as your body lets go of its habitual sleeping patterns which are compensating for a worn out or inappropriate mattress and ā€œrelearnsā€ to relax and sleep in alignment without having to tense muscles or constantly change sleeping positions to find pressure relief or relieve strain.

There is very little correlation between a mattress thickness and how appropriate it may be for you. Higher quality materials can and often should be used in thinner layers. If a mattress provides you with PPP ā€¦ then the thickness makes no difference. Any additional thickness above this is usually about buying unnecessary material.

Since you have already purchased the Sams Club mattress ā€¦ I would give it at least a few days to see how it goes and if the back pain changes in either direction. If it is clearly creating back pain (from sleeping out of alignment) ā€¦ then this would be more about how appropriate the layering was for you than about the material value of the mattress itself and I would certainly return it and ā€œstart againā€ ā€¦ with the help of a local manufacturer.

The rest, recovery, and healing we get from good and deep sleep IMO is too important to leave to chance alone. In a case like yours where there are high quality and value manufacturers and outlets so close to you ā€¦ this is where I would go if your mattress doesnā€™t work out for you. ā€œBetterā€ is always more about how a mattress works for you than about the ā€œcommodity costā€ of the materials in it.

Phoenix

Hi Sleepy-in-AZ,

In general ā€¦ the material in a pillowtop and why it is there at all has more to do with a mattress than the actual fact that it has a pillowtop. While it is certainly a form of layering which can affect the feel of a mattress ā€¦ in most cases (especially with major manufacturers), pillowtops as they are most commonly made are mainly a way to cater to initial perceptions that donā€™t lead to long term pressure relief, alignment, or comfort and are more often than not a way of selling more cheap foam than is necessary. What is in a pillowtop is always more important than the pillowtop style of contruction itself. A tight top mattress can be just as soft as a pillowtop if the right materials are used for the person ā€¦ and with most ā€œmass marketā€ mattresses ā€¦ pillowtops should completely avoided as they are no more than a way to add some cheap soft polyfoam (that will quickly break down) to a mattress and charge an inflated price.

To give you a ā€œmass marketā€ example of a major manufacturer that uses 3" of latex (a lower quality type of latex than yours) over a similar support base (High Density polyfoam) ā€¦ the Sealy Embody
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which sells for $1800 (queen mattress only) would be comparable. While this would be roughly comparable to what you purchased (yours uses higher quality latex though) ā€¦ both would feel different to different people depending on sleeping position, weight, height, and individual preferences. One personā€™s ā€œsoftā€ is often another personā€™s ā€œfirmā€ depending on the layers they are feeling in the mattress and their own sensitivity to pressure, spinal alignment, and subjective preferences and sensitivities.

A mattress review that is based on other peopleā€™s perceptions about a mattress and that is given in the excitement of a new purchase means very little and is a major cause of poor choices in a mattress. Words like ā€œsoftā€, ā€œfirmā€, ā€œcomfortableā€, and ā€œsupportiveā€ are usually misused and are often talking about different things and different mattress layers through the perceptions of different people with very different needs and preferences. The quality of materials used (durability) and how well a mattress provides pressure relief, alignment, and comfort for you are much more important than any review. Most people who submit a review of their mattress have little idea of the materials in their mattress or how long it will continue to ā€œperformā€ in the same way it did when new and the reviews are based on fairly vague notions of initial ā€œcomfortā€. Personal testing and/or knowledge of the materials and layering in a mattress is really the only way to have an idea of how suitable a mattress will be for any individual or long it will last. Latex is the most durable of all foam materials (latex, polyfoam, and memory foam) and will keep its properties longer than any other foam. The HD polyfoam used under it is a good ā€œbudgetā€ choice for a support layer under the latex (even though the embody isnā€™t what I would call a ā€œbudgetā€ mattress ā€¦ it should be).

Most people who purchase from Sleepez make their purchase online (they donā€™t live in Phoenix) and Shawn (the owner) and the people who answer the phone are well aware of the discount for The Mattress Underground members. Since it is less common for the employees in the store to have a member buy a mattress in the case of SleepEz ā€¦ they may not all be aware of it. A quick call to Shawn at their online number and letting him know where you purchased it will rectify the 5% discount.

Congratulations on your purchase :). I understand the buyers remorse as most people have been somewhat ā€œmisledā€ into believing all the misleading advertising and stories that dominate the market or that ā€œbrandā€ is more important than materials and quality. You did well IMO.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,
I went to flexus comfort and tried their memory foam. The 5lbs seems much firmer and better for me than the one I got for Sams Club. I was talking with the rep and he said that if I have tried latex. He went to show me a full 100% latex bed that is flippable. The price is out of my range but he indicated I can work something out. My question is that when I laid on the latex bed it felt so good that I wanted to buy it. However I didnā€™t do any research on latex at all and will be going in blindly. He was telling me they have a 6in latex for 1500 vs the 8 in latex for 1900. What is the difference between the 6inch and the 8inch?

Also what should I know before going back to them to ask them questions? Its a family own business and they make their mattress on site, so Is there anything I should be asking or I should know they have in the bed before committing?

Thank you again.

Hi Lasdj,

The most important part of buying a mattress is to know the 2 basic functions of a mattress

Hereā€™s an article on the pros and cons of memory foam and hereā€™s an article on the pros and cons of latex.

My first priority would be to decide on what type of foam I wanted in the comfort layer (the upper few inches of the mattress). This is the layer that is mainly responsible for pressure relief and a big part of the ā€œfeelā€ of a mattress. The primary choices here are memory foam and latex ā€¦ both of which are about equal in pressure relief but different in feel (provided the latex is soft enough to provide adequate pressure relief as it comes in different ILDā€™s or levels of firmness/softnes)

Following this is the decision about the material to use in the support layer. This will normally be either an innerspring, polyfoam, or latex foam. Memory foam cannot be used in the support layers as all memory foam is too soft for this. While latex is an excellent choice for this as different layerings and the nature of latex itself can provide support for a wide range of positions and sleeping profiles ā€¦ innersprings and polyfoam have a different feel and can be used either for their feel or for budget considerations (latex is the most expensive and most durable support material but using polyfoam or an innerspring can reduce the cost of the mattress). Choosing a latex comfort layer over either innerpsprings or polyfoam is a common compromise to get the pressure relief and comfort of latex in a lower budget mattress.

More information about the different materials used in the comfort layers of a mattress is here and in the sub pages and about the different materials used in the support layers of a mattress is here and in the sub pages.

In general ā€¦ when you find a quality local factory direct manufacturer that has been in business for many years ā€¦ their experience, expertise, and advice is usually good and can be trusted. Based on my conversations with Henry (the owner) Flexus is one of these and their advice regarding pressure relief, alignment, durability, and value would be valuable.

In general a ā€œsingle coreā€ of 6" latex can be very suitable for some people however a thinner softer 2" or 3" comfort layer over this can provide better pressure relief for many ā€¦ particularly for side sleeping ā€¦ while the core (latex, innerpring, or polyfoam) can provide the support that keeps your heavier parts (hips) from sinking in too deeply.

As long as you are testing a mattress for pressure relief in the position that has the most ā€œpointy partsā€ (like hips and shoulders) and spinal alignment in all your sleeping positions, then everything else after this is a matter of preference (the different feels of latex, memory foam, innersprings, breathability, temperature, durability) and getting the best value within your budget. This is what I call PPP (pressure relief, posture, and preferences).

Finding a high quality and knowledgeable factory direct local manufacturer or sleep shop can save you a lot of research and learning ā€¦ while the articles I linked to should give you ideas about the types of questions you may wish to ask :).

Phoenix

Hi, Iā€™m Ron and new hereā€¦Iā€™m looking at the iComfort memory foam beds and am wondering if you know where I can get it at a discount, or a very similar bed (adjustable/wireless) at equal or lesser value than the iComfort in or around Indianapolis, IN?

Thanks!

Hi Ron ā€¦ and welcome,

As you probably know from this thread ā€¦ I consider the iComfort to have poor value (as are most of the national brands compared to other higher quality less expensive choices made by independent manufacturers). In the same way, the adjustable base that is sold with it is also significantly more than other almost identical options although they do have a matching cover and a zipper attachment which others donā€™t have. For reference ā€¦ the best prices I have seen for the major brands of adjustable bases are here so you can have a comparison before deciding whether it is worth purchasing the iComfort motion perfect base.

In terms of the mattress itself ā€¦ I normally recommend looking at local manufacturers for the best quality and value mattresses. For those who donā€™t have a local manufacturer near enough to where they live, then ā€œlay on mattressā€ testing done locally to find out the materials and layering of mattresses that best suits your needs and preferences can serve as a blueprint for an online purchase from a factory direct outlet which can help you to ā€œduplicateā€ the type and layering of mattress you prefer.

Your better choices in the Indianapolis area are listed in post #2 here

I would certainly tend to avoid the Mattress World, Mattress Firm, American Mattress type of outlets that are quite common in your area and typically sell national brands which have much lower quality and value and who do everything they can to discourage comparative shopping based on actual materials in a mattress.

Some online memory foam mattress choices are in this thread.

Hope this helps.

Phoenix

Wow! :slaphead: I wish I woud have found this site before buying our mattress! We just bought a second home in AZ and while I am experiencing buyerā€™s remorse, I do have a small silver lining. I am within the ā€œ60 day comfort guaranteeā€ and want to return my mattress. Problem is that I can not ā€œreturnā€ it for my money back just return it for a different name band mattress. We are considering the iComfort for no other reason other that they sell it there.

Any suggestions on other name brand mattresses that I wonā€™t want to throw out my window after a year?

Also, interestingly enough we also need a new mattress in our primary home in NH and was wondering if you have suggestions for manufacturers in that state!

Thank you so much in advance! Your information is invaluable!

Hi LiLiBug,

Itā€™s too bad about the Arizona situation because AZ has some very high quality and great value mattress manufacturers. If you let me know the name of the store though, ā€¦ Iā€™d be happy to take a look and see what they have that IMO may have better value.

There are not a lot of great options in NH but here are a few ā€¦ and if you are close enough to another state like MA to make a drive worthwhile, then there may be other options as well.

http://www.sunsetmattressfactory.com/index.htm Ossipee. Independent factory direct manufacturer that makes some ā€œold styleā€ and good quality innerspring/cotton mattresses with working box springs that are good value.

Milford. Retail direct outlet. Carries several memory foam and latex options from Therapedic which may have better than average quality and value.

Various NH and MA outlets. Retail direct outlet for Jordans Mattress Factory which has their own house brand (I would ignore the major brands they carry). Their memory foam mattress descriptions donā€™t say the type of memory foam or density but the polyfoam used in the support core is a lower density/quality (1.6 lbs) than is usually used. Their latex over polyfoam mattress uses better quality poly under the latex but doesnā€™t give the type or layer thickness of the latex which would be important to know (so you know that itā€™s not just a meaningless layer hidden between other layers of cheaper foam).
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Post #4 here has a larger list centered in the Merrimack, NH area (including these three).

If a quality mattress that fits your needs and preferences and has good value is not available locally, ā€¦ then the mattresses that you have tested and provide the best combination of pressure relief, sleeping alignment, and your preferences can be used as a ā€œguidelineā€ for an online purchase which may have much better value than what is available locally.

Phoenix

Thanks Phoenix! It is Sleep America and I can not say that they havenā€™t been extremely helpful and willing in taking our mattress back! Very accomidating!

We like the feel of the iComfort so something comparable would be nice. Also how can I negotiate the best price if in fact an iComfort is our only option?

Thank you so much, you really do provide a great source of reference!

Thanks again Phoenix,
I am probably going with the latex however one question that I was unsure of, is there a difference in latex that has deep quilting vs no quilting at all? I saw on sleepez site they have quilted latex. When I talked to Henry he had quilted latex as well but informed me that he was moving away from it because it takes away from the overall feel of the latex. Is that correct? or should i get the latex quilted?

Also the one I am looking at from flexus is their 9 inch latex, 6inch dunlop with 3 inch talalay. not sure if their latex is 100% natural or blended.

but sleepez has the Select Sleep Latex Mattress 8500 for the same price as what flexus is sellingā€¦should sleepez be a better choice since it is the same price and its more customizeable? flexus comfort glues their pieces together so there is no exchanging. is it bad that sleep ez dont glue their pieces and it could start to move around?

sorry for the numerous questions but i am about to pull the trigger on the bed.

-lisa