Hi 22bmarsh,
Do you know the specs of your mattress and the type of topper? It would be helpful too if you could describe the type of discomfort youāre experiencing (the symptoms and where they are) because different symptoms would have different āremediesā.
Phoenix
In my twenty years in the business I can tell you it is not unusual to be uncomfortable for the first week or two when switching from one type of sleep system to another. If fact I would call it normal. I have a few suggestions.
phoenix,
the bed is as folllow: bottom-
2in cocconut rock hard firm
4 in blended talalay 30% nat and 70% ild of 35
2 in on top medium and ild 26-32
2 in talalay soft and 19-26
1" convuluted latex
Iām having discomfort in the lower back area and am waking up due to these problems. I called Patrick at community mattress and he has been nothing but helpful. He did recommend maybe getting a topper since I had a sleep number bed with no support on a number of 35. I like to sink in my bed and I guess thatās very bad for the back so now I guess Iām not used to actually having support. I donāt blame him at all and know heās going on the specs I gave him from the bed I slept on which felt amazing. Iām just concerned because when I did sleep on the natura crown I had no problems so I donāt know what to do and thatās why I was asking if there was a break in period. Also, does it matter the temp that my room is at?
Hi 22bmarsh,
Patrick is right IMO that it would be a good idea to give the mattress some time if you can. One of the difficulties when you are coming from a mattress with poor support that you have become used to is that your back may have become accustomed to sleeping in an unnatural position and that good posture may be painful. I have talked with several chiropractors who design mattresses that have told me that this is not an unusual phenomenon. While the long term implications of this are not so good ā¦ in the short term it can cause some grief until the ligaments and muscles get used to a more natural position.
Do you know any of the details of the sleep number mattress besides the setting (the foam layers on top of the bladder)? Knowing more about what you were sleeping on may help a bit.
Normally I would suggest that with your 6ā3" 175 lb frame and being a side/back sleeper that this would be a construction that worked fairly well for side sleeping at least. If anything it would be āon the soft sideā for back sleeping with 3" of softer latex on top of a medium transition layer. Do you sleep a lot on your back or mostly on the side? Under normal circumstances I might tend to suggest eliminating the top 1" layer of foam to put you closer to the support layers and ābring upā your pelvis but with your history Iām not sure if the issue is too soft or old āmemorizedā sleeping posture.
What I would suggest for now is to take a thicker blanket and fold it into a strip (in half twice) that can go under the middle third of the mattress under the pelvic area. The goal is to test the results of bringing up your hips a bit to see what effect that has. I would hold off on a topper for now (as Ryan from Beloit suggested) because if the issue is that the upper layers are already a little too thick then it could make it worse and as he also mentioned it could re-start the adjustment period.
One other suggestion if you spend a fair bit of time on your back is a pillow under your knees to ārotateā your hips and help ease lower back pressure. A pillow between your knees on your side may also help a bit but probably not as much for lower back.
There are about 4 different versions of the Natura Crown specs on the internet and it may have changed but the most common ones have 2" of coir on the bottom with 4" of firm Talalay (some say Dunlop) and then 2" of medium zoned talalay, 2" of soft zoned Talalay and then either 1" or 2 x 1" of convoluted convoluted latex (various sites say either Talalay or Dunlop and the Natura site says an inch of each). Your mattress is close to these and if anything it only has an inch of the convolute rather than 2. Most of them do have the 4" of zoned latex which would lift up your hips a bit so this may be the difference and the Natura also has a thick wool quilting which would firm up the upper latex layers a bit.
All in all this is a ātoughā one to diagnose but I would start with the blanket and see if we can move things in the right direction a bit to at least get you comfortable enough to see if the normal adjustment period will improve things as well.
Phoenix
Hey Phoenix
Ivāe been reading this forum for a few hours and would like to say thanks for the valuable information that you have provided.
Last night I put a down payment on a bedroom set and mattress (iComfort Genius) from R&F. After reading the forum Iās going to put the whole deposit towards the set and get a mattress from a local store. My husband is a back/side sleeper and I like to sleep on my stomach.Iām going to take your advice and try out a latex mattress but I have no idea what specifications to look for. Also I live in NYC area and wanted to know what would be the best store to buy from?
Thanks ALot!!!
Hi T.Haskins,
There are some guidelines in terms of what to look for here (your sleeping positions), and here (your statistics like weight and body shape etc) and here (your preferences).
More important though than the technical stuff is your own personal experience because each person is unique in how they interact with a particular mattress. This is why there is no ābestā mattress in general terms but only best for an individual. Just as important is understanding the different materials that are used in a mattress and their general qualities and how they feel to you, and how to tell good quality from lesser quality in each material. Lower quality materials can make a very comfortable mattress that feels great in the managed environment of many showrooms. the problem is that they wonāt last as long. There is really only a limited amount of materials that are used in mattresses even though the variations in each material is quite wide. In comfort layers the different materials most often used are here. In support layers the different materials generally used are here. Each person can have a different opinion about each of these and which they prefer so its a good idea to spend some time initially getting a sense of the different general feeling of each one.
The comfort layers that you will most commonly see are the different types of foam ā¦ latex, memory foam, and polyurethane foam. The support cores that are most common are innersprings (many types), polyurethane, and latex. So in the most basic versions you would have say a memory foam over polyurethane mattress (like tempurpedic), or a latex over innersprings, or a memory foam over latex mattress etc. Of course they can be mixed and matched in many ways and there are other materials but these are the ābasicā ingredients of a mattress.
Much of this can get fairly technical so I personally believe that the most effective way to find a mattress is to find someone who already knows all of this and is willing to guide you in person in making the best choices. The best of these are almost always local manufacturers who sell factory direct or sleep shops with more knowledgeable staff and who sell smaller brands. Finding one of these and not spending your time and money in chain stores, department stores, on National brands that you hear advertised everywhere, or pursuing the āamazing salesā or ārevolutionary new mattressā that you hear advertised will save you more time and frustration than anything else. Good mattresses using the best materials for a specific budget, that are well built, and that have great value, are available every day of the year at prices that donāt change much and donāt depend on negotiation. Good outlets donāt have āamazingā sales (occasionally they have smaller discounts for legitimate reasons) and they understand the basics of mattress construction and how different types of materials and layering can suit certain people.
There are a lot of options in the New York area and there are also some outlets that offer less common choices as well (such as the old style natural fiber over innerspring mattresses hand built in the āold fashionedā way). What I would do is to first spend time on the phone talking with some of these and letting them know your budget, your preferences in terms of what you like and the types of mattresses you have preferred, and of course your needs (based on height, weight, sleeping positions etc). The better outlets will be happy to let you know the choices that may work well for you and how much they cost. Some research on the phone (and on websites for those that show more information) will save you hours of going āstore to storeā and getting more confused as you try to remember what every mattress felt like and what it was made of. Your phone calls will give you a very good sense of a few outlets that seem the most promising for your own circumstances and are the most knowledgeable and helpful and these are the ones I would spend time visiting.
There is a list of some of the better places in the NYC area in post #2 here. There are also a few general descriptions of many of these outlets in post #7 here.
In essence ā¦ the more the person who is helping you knows ā¦ the less you have to know. The more they are willing to help āeducateā you about their mattresses and how they compare to others rather than āsell youā on their mattresses based on āstoriesā ā¦ the more likely it is that you can trust them. These types of outlets will be more patient, wonāt create a sense of urgency about buying now, and because they are proud of what they make and the value they represent, they will help you make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses rather than making comparisons more difficult. they are what I call āmattress peopleā rather than āmoney machinesā.
Phoenix
Phoenix,
So I got a topper but it was a plush topper and I have to say my bac and sleep has gotten a lot better. This was all in thanks to Patrick who recommended that since I was used to having a pillow top this would give me the best sleep possible as well as having all the support I needed. Hope this helps and thanks to all of your help.
Phoenix- I wanted to let you know that after all the research I finally broke down and purchased the Restonic Latex. The first night I slept on it I only slept for two hours since I was not use to this type of mattress and I was so scared I had made the wrong decision. By the second night I fell in love with this mattress. Itās like laying on a cloud and provides support for all of the pressure points. Iāve now had it for over a month and am so glad I took the time to research.
Thank you so much for your help Jill
Hi 22bmarsh,
Thatās great news! I guess that your body just needed the feel of the old mattress with a little better support 
Patrick also gets 5 stars in my book for coming up with a solution and working with you till you were happy.
Phoenix
Hi jmbramblett,
Congratulations on your new mattress!
It often takes a few weeks to adjust to a new mattress and you managed to do it in a day. I guess thatās piece of good news number 2
It always feels so good to finish all the research and testing and actually get to lay down and go to sleep.
Phoenix
WOW! What an awesome website!
Kudos to you Phoenix (great name as i was born there)ā¦you run a great show.
I need your help: I live the Dallas area and am in the market for a new king mattress set. Started looking at innersprings then we tested out a foam mattress. Hated the Tempurpedic.
Liked the King Koil Elara set @ Rooms to Go but cannot find any intel on this mattress. Ready to pull the trigger on an Icomfort Insight king set from Samās for $1700 (delivery and $200 gift card promo) but then stumbled upon your website.
Now, I am really confused.
I am a 260 lb side sleeperā¦sleep HOT and wake up with stiffness and back pain from our current cruddy mattressā¦wife is 125 lbs, stomach/sider and needs to be bundled up. Semi-firm comfort level.
Now am wondering about your latex vs. foam suggestions as well as a earlier recommendation to check out Sleep Craft, a local manufacturer.
Budget: up to $1700-$1900
BTWā¦what do YOU sleep on??
Chip in Dallas
Hi Chill,
Thanks for the comments
Do you have a link to the Elara? I didnāt see a King Koil model with this name and the only āElaraā I could find is a Simmons which you can see here. It uses lower quality foam (the base is only 3 lb memory foam and 1.65 lb polyfoam) and the upper comfort layers uses P50 foam (which is @1.5 lb). I would avoid this one completely if this is the mattress you meant.
You can see my thoughts on all the iComfort models here (in case you havenāt see it).
Wide weight differentials can be particularly tricky. Because of your weight ā¦ I would focus on higher quality materials in the comfort layers in particular. With sleeping hot added to the equation ā¦ I would also tend to avoid memory foam or at the very least use the coolest memory foams available. Several options for these types of situation would be to use a comfort layer where there are several layers instead of just one layer. This is because whatwill feel soft for someone that is heavier will often feel firm for someone who is lighter. If you were to use for example 2" of softer material and 2" of medium material on top ā¦ then the entire 4" would be your comfort layer and then firmer layers below this would act as your support layer. Because of your wifeās lighter weight the 2" of medium material may act more as a support layer (the medium would āactā soft for you but would 'act" firm for her) which may give both of you the pressure relief and support you need. The other option would be to use āsplitā layering where each side of a mattress was layered differently for each of you. These are not āspecificā suggestions (in terms of the specific layer thickness that may work best for you) but ideas that are meant to show how a mattress can be layered that can be suitable for two people with very different needs and preferences.
Some general guidelines that may help avoid most of the āworstā choices and help focus on the better choices (in terms of quality and value) in mattress shopping are here.
The overviews in the mattresses section of the site would be well worth reading to get a general idea of the materials used in mattresses and the types of layering that may work best for different combinations of weight and sleeping positions. Pages that include some general āweight guidelinesā are here and for āsleeping positionā guidelines are here.
There are quite a few options in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area but you will find the ones that I believe are your better choices in post #2 here.
The āpillow threadā is here
I sleep on a 2 sided talalay latex mattress made by one of the manufacturing members of the site (see the Dallas thread I linked previously). I added a note to the comments in the Dallas thread because I donāt believe they offer talalay latex any more.
Hope this helps
Phoenix
Dear Phoenix, I am located in South Central PA near York PA. I am a side or stomach sleeper 6 foot tall about 260lbs, my fiance is 5 foot 3 about 130 lbs. We are in the market for a new mattress. Of all the mattresses we have tested out there were two we really liked the Serta iComfort Revolution King, and the Tempurpedic Cloud Luxe in King. I care about the mattress and its comfort as I sometimes have lower back pain from past sports injuries. My fiance cares about sleeping cool and comfort as well as an adjustable base. My question is: are there comparable mattresses that fit our two choice profiles above and are more affordable? Especially with an adjustable base the Temurpedic is around $7000 and the Serta iComfort around $5,000. I need to buy one soon and I am looking at all the options. We have considered Costco but there is no store near enough and I have not tried them out. Could we/should we buy the mattress and shop elsewhere for a more affordable adjustable base? Any insight and recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Hi GVSourkas,
The three factory direct manufacturers that are closest to you are ā¦
Magic Sleeper and https://www.mattressandfurniturestore.com/ Pottstown (or Pottsdown), PA. Local factory direct manufacturer that makes a range of good quality and value mattresses including two sided innerspring mattresses and a number of latex and latex hybrid options. Family owned and good people. They also make custom designs and sizes and and they are also a member of this site.
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Furniture RowĀ®. Real Furniture. Real Value. York. Regional factory direct manufacturer. They make a range of mattresses of all types with good value (they also carry other brands which I would avoid). they may not carry their latex models (as of about t months ago but that may have changed).
https://www.verlo.com/ West Chester. Regional factory direct manufacturer. they also carry a wide range of mattresses of all types with good value. See post #17 here for some feedback about the West Chester outlet.
I would focus my attention on these three as itās unlikely you will find better value or selection at other stores in the general area.
I purchased my adjustable base here and they have the best value that I know of. Serta is the Ergo with a few minor options added and the Reverie (which I purchased because I thought it was the best combination of features and value) is the manufacturer of the Tempurpedic base.
There are quite a few pages on the site which should help give you a few guidelines.
This article will help you avoid most of the lower value choices so you can focus more on the outlets which have better knowledge, service, and most importantly value. Local manufacturers almost always use better quality materials and sell for lower prices than the larger national brands which I would avoid completely.
Post #11 here has an analysis and review on the iComfort lineup.
Tempurpedic are high quality memory foam mattresses but are also significantly overpriced IMO compared to equally high quality (or better) mattresses made by smaller manufacturers.
I would also read the overviews that are in the mattresses section of the website to gain a bit of general knowledge about the materials and construction of a mattress as it will help you in your search.
This page has some guidelines that are connected to weight and this page has some guidelines connected to sleeping positions.
With stomach sleeping itās especially important to make sure that the comfort layer isnāt too thick and that you have a firm support layer as well to prevent swayback. The Revolution is probably one of the least suitable mattresses for your weight and sleeping position and it would put you at real risk of worsening your back pain (your pelvis would likely sink in too far and hyperextend your back into a swayback position). Memory foam as a group is also quite tricky and I would seriously consider latex which is just as pressure relieving but far less risky for back issues. If you do decide to go with memory foam ā¦ I would use the highest quality possible (5 lbs and up) because with your weight a lower density memory foam will wear out much more quickly (including the 4 lb memory foam in the Cloud Luxe). Memory foam is also the hottest of all foams and regular polyfoam is cooler and latex is the coolest of all.
So overall I would take a little time to do some reading on the site ā¦ ask questions as you come across them ā¦ and put your focus on local manufacturing and definitely test the feel of latex as it would fit what you are looking for much better and would be far more durable than any memory foam.
Phoenix
Hello,
I live in Boca Raton Florida and Iāll buy a memory foam mattress soon.
Iām looking for quality and comfort, I just tried the iconfort Revolution and I believe the price is too high. BJās has the Sleep Innovations Queen-Size 12" Supreme Elegance Memory Foam Mattress for 859.99 but Iām not sure what to do.
If there is any better choice please let me know.
Thanks.
Hi acump,
IMO, the most important part of choosing a memory foam (or any other) mattress is the ability to find out the quality and type of foam that is inside it. Without this information there is no way to make meaningful comparisons with any other mattress. Post #10 here includes some guidelines that I think are good to follow when choosing a memory foam mattress. Without filling in the missing information about the foams used in the Supreme Elegance ā¦ I personally wouldnāt consider it.
I also believe that in most cases the best quality and value in a mattress is found with local manufacturers who sell factory direct or smaller sleep shops who carry āalternativeā brands (smaller national, regional, or local manufacturers). Here too though, knowing what is in your mattress and the ability and willingness of the outlet to tell you this information is a major part of choosing which outlet I would put my focus on and is one of the key ways to identify better outlets.
Some of the factory direct outlets in your area that I would include in my research are in post #2 here.
Feel free to keep the questions coming as you come across them.
Phoenix
Hi, I was looking to see if someone could help me answer some questions I had.
I went to a Mattress firm and tried out the iComfort mattress and thought it was pretty good. Especially with the motion perfect base which I fell in love withā¦ (I believe thatās the name)
I searched for reviews and came across this forumā¦ I have scanned around several posts and have learned a little bitā¦
First and foremost I am in a wheelchair and my weight is about 220 and I am a back and left side sleeper.
I read in one post that you mentioned Adjustable beds orgā¦ I really believe I am going to get Reverie Deluxe (REV9981)
Now, Iām lost in even which mattress to begin to look at. Would any mattress be compatible with the Reverie base? Would you be able to suggest or recommend any style of mattresses to try out? I do get hot when I sleep. Also, I believe if I were to get a big foamy, foamy mattress I would sink into the bed to much and might be a little harder for me to turn to my side.
I understand it is an important investment but I was looking to stay under $1,500 for the mattressā¦ if needed or simply feels amazing I could go up in priceā¦
Any factory direct places or stores you would recommend within 60 miles of McAllen, TX 78501
If you have any questions for me, please ask away.
Thanks
xps24,
I think that perhaps the best place you could start is to read the guidelines on this page. This will help you avoid most of the common traps and pitfalls of mattress shopping and likely lead you away from the chain stores (like mattress firm) and the major brands (like Serta) and help you focus on the much higher quality and value that is usually available from local factory direct manufacturers or sleep shops that sell smaller alternative brands.
The motion perfect is basically the Ergomoton 400 at adjustablebeds.org with a few minor enhancements. I personally bought the Reverie Deluxe because the value was a little better although both would have made good choices. Reverie makes all the bases for Tempurpedic.
There is an analysis and review of the entire iComfort lineup in post #11 here.
There are some innerspring mattresses which can be used with an adjustable base (the outlet will tell you if they are suitable) but they are usually used with either memory foam mattress or latex mattresses which would all work fine on an adjustable base if they have a foam core (instead of an innerspring).
Some good basic information that may be worth reading just to give you some general information that will help you clarify some of the āmysteryā about mattresses are in the overviews in the mattresses section of the site. I would scan these rather than āstudyā them so you can ask better questions.
There is a regional factory direct maufacturer in your area called Denver Mattress which carries a range of mattresses that would likely have better quality and value than most of the other choices in your area. I would focus on the brands they make rather than the major brands that they also carry and in particular I would look at the Aspen and the Snowmass which are latex mattresses which have good value. With your weight ā¦ the firmer Snowmass may be a better choice between the two if you are comfortable with the pressure relief, support, and the overall feel of the mattress.
Another option I would consider if you are comfortable with the idea is to consider a purchase from one of our manufacturing members that make mattresses with much better quality and value than are available in many areas of the country and specialize in shipping anywhere across the country. They are all highly skilled in helping you make good choices and many of them allow you to actually choose the layers of foam in your mattress to best suit your needs and preferences. Some time spent on the phone with these (and they are listed in post #21 here) telling them about your needs and preferences will help you a great deal whether you choose to go in this direction or not. Not all of these would be within your budget range but some of them definitely would and they are all much better quality and value than mattresses that most people in a similar budget range or even much higher would typically end up purchasing.
[quote]I do get hot when I sleep. Also, I believe if I were to get a big foamy, foamy mattress I would sink into the bed to much and might be a little harder for me to turn to my side.
I understand it is an important investment but I was looking to stay under $1,500 for the mattressā¦ if needed or simply feels amazing I could go up in priceā¦[/quote]
Of the two main types of specialty foams that you will find in mattresses (memory foam and latex) ā¦ latex tends to be much cooler and is also much more motion friendly (it doesnāt have a āmemoryā that can make movement more difficult). It is also the most durable and supportive generally available. I would tend to stay away from thick layers of polyfoam in the upper layers of your mattress because this tends to be lower quality and breaks down faster than higher quality foams. A layer of softer foam in the range of about 3" (either memory foam or latex) over a firmer layer for good support would be typical for someone of your weight and sleeping position. Depending on your preferences and pressure relief needs ā¦ a medium soft top layer in the range of 24 - 28 ILD may work well. Your experience on the Aspen and the Snowmass may also help provide a guideline for the type of comfort layer that works for you.
Relax2Sleep is retail outlet that carries Sterling Sleep and Natura both of which make some high quality mattresses. While they will likely be outside of your budget ā¦ they can provide some helpful guidelines about the type of mattress that may work for you if you decide on an online purchase.
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Hope this helps and feel free to post any questions or comments along the way.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix, I really appreciated your fast response.
I was able to make a trip to Denver Mattress today, I tried out the Queen Snowmass with a Ergomotion 300 series base. I liked it very much. Iām confused on whether to get the reverie or ergomotionā¦ The Reverie says the head part goes up 70 degreesā¦ On the Ergomotion faq page it states it goes up 70 degrees, but does not state which model. That 70degrees is very important to me. I wanted to ask if you could help me out by telling me the differences between an Reverie Deluxe($1228) and the Ergomotion 300($1,199)?
I did prefer the Snowmass over the Aspen, the price is $1,129 for a Queenā¦ Is that a ok to good price on this mattress? The Construction materials being:
Quilt Layers:
Stretch Knit Ticking
1" 1.8lb High Density Foam
Natural Rayon Fire Barrier
Comfort Layers:
2" Talalay Latex
Support System:
6" Talalay Latex Core
2" 1.8lb High Resilient Foam
Also, the āsales manā did recommend buying a Perfect Harmony Isocool ($99) which he stated would prolong the mattresses life a little longer by absorbing sweat and moisture from my body before it would get to the mattress itself and keeps you very cool which intrigued me.
He also mentioned that he could not lower the prices on any of the featured productsā¦ Only 15% on accessoriesā¦ Even if I paid cash which I found oddā¦ Is that normal on their own brands or have you heard that they do lower the prices a bit?
Can you please let me know your opinion on these prices and items I am looking to purchase? Just not sure about which adjustable base to get right nowā¦
Thank you very much
Hi xps24,
Iām not familiar with the Ergomotion 300 (the Ergomotion website says itās not available in North America in spite of the fact that Denver Mattress seems to be carrying it). I did however test out the Ergomotion 400 which I believe is similar. I personally bought the Reverie Deluxe because I thought it had better overall value. The ergo models at that time only went to 60 degrees so I donāt know if that has changed (many sites still say 60). The head raised a little higher than the Ergo (again I donāt know if this is still true), the massage was a little better, and the weight capacity was a little higher (550 lbs vs 500 lbs including the mattress). The weight limits would be per single unit and a split unit would have double the capacity (this came directly from communications with Reverie). The Reverie Deluxe is available for $1099 with no shipping or tax from here (this is where I bought mine).
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The price for the Snowmass is very good for a mattress that has 8" of latex and if you tested it for pressure relief and alignment and you like the feel of it ā¦ the value is excellent.
I would avoid a mattress protector with thick layers of polyester fibers. They will compress and also reduce the feel of the latex. While a mattress protector is an essential part of your sleeping system ā¦ there are many better choices IMO. If you do a forum ātitle searchā (click forum search and then āsearch titles onlyā) on āprotectorā or ācoverā (without the quotes) there are many posts with a lot of information about the tradeoffs involved in a choice of mattress protector. I would tend to go with wool such as the Dormeir (much more breathable and temperature regulating but will affect the feel of the mattress a little more) or a thinner stretchable breathable/waterproof protector (which is less breathable but in most cases will affect the feel of the mattress a little less).
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This is the ānormā with most reputable factory direct manufacturers who donāt run fake sales like most of the mainstream outlets and run on smaller profit margins. There quality and value every day of the year is far better than the best of the āsale pricesā that you see so heavily advertised elsewhere. Outlets that heavily discount their mattresses and run continuous sales are good places to avoid. Nobody ever pays their āregularā prices which are outrageously high and only listed to make their sale prices look better than they really are. You wonāt find a similar mattress (using similar materials) or anything close to it at a major outlet for anywhere near that price regardless of a sale or your ability to ānegotiateā (another gimmick in mass market outlets that makes buyers feel good because they think they got an even better deal).
Phoenix