Tired Side Sleeper Needs Advice

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
1

Hi,

I am a side sleeper looking for either a quick fix or a complete rebuild of my mattress. I’ll start with my current setup from top down:

2 inch layer of memory foam
2 inch layer of memory foam
3 inch layer of medium latex
3 inch layer of firm latex
A massage table with minimal padding

I began adding the memory foam layers within the past two years because I started tossing and turning a lot and thought that maybe the latex was breaking down (latex purchased in 2007). The memory foam seemed to help a lot but now I find myself replacing it at least once per year. Maybe the foam I am buying from Walmart isn’t high quality foam.

It’s important to note that my thin build means I don’t have much padding on my behind or hips which I find breaks in mattresses and furniture significantly faster than someone with padding on those places of their body. I should probably keep that in mind this time around.

As for budget, I would prefer to squeeze every last drop of comfort out of the latex since it was expensive. Around $500 would be acceptable.

My body and well-being would greatly appreciate your recommendations. Thank you :slight_smile:

2

Hi fire_water,

I don’t have enough information to make any specific “comfort” suggestions because there are just too many variables and individual preferences involved that aren’t possible for me to know and “theory” can be very different from someone’s real life experience. I also don’t know the specific “symptoms” you are hoping to correct with your current combination or whether the two memory foam layers worked well for you when they were new of if they were just “better” but still not ideal in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). I would also consider testing some mattresses with softer latex comfort layers to see if you prefer the “feel” of softer latex over memory foam or whether you want to continue with memory foam comfort layers.

This is probably true. Many of the toppers at Walmart use lower density memory foam which will soften and break down faster than higher density foam. I would use a minimum of 4 lb memory foam and 5 lb memory foam would be more durable yet although it may also “feel” a little firmer (depending on the specific type of memory foam because there can be a fairly big difference between the properties of different types of memory foam). The latex would be a more durable material than the memory foam and it’s usually the top layers of a mattress that will soften and/or break down faster than the deeper layers.

This is also not unusual. The smaller surface area of your pressure points can concentrate your weight more even though you are lighter which can soften or break down the foam underneath them faster than if your weight was more “spread out” over a larger surface area.

If you decide that you prefer to use memory foam then I would use similar layers to what has worked for you in the past (except perhaps choosing higher density memory foam which may “feel” a little firmer) and if you decide to use latex then I would use your experience sleeping on the 6" of latex along with the topper guidelines in post #2 here and the posts it links to to decide on which thickness and softness has the best chance of success (although I would probably lean towards 3" or so based on your experience with 4" of memory foam).

Phoenix

3

Phoenix,

Thank you for your quick, helpful reply. I appreciate it.

It seems the internet is flooded with suppliers of memory foam and latex. Can you recommend a quality source to purchase from? Unfortunately, the business I purchased my latex from in 2007 has closed their shop.

Thanks!

4

Hello Fire_Water,

While I am not an expert by any means (that would be Phoenix), I would like to help and maybe see if we can clear the picture up. It sounds like you did something similar to what I was thinking of trying, but decided against due to a few reasons.

The image I am getting is that you purchased 4 mattress toppers and stacked them on top of each other to build yourself a bed, using the massage table as your foundation. I admire your ingenuity and it sounds like it looks pretty cool, yet I think you may be putting yourself through unnecessary discomfort.

First,The toppers are, I believe (and Phoenix can correct any errors I make) comfort layers. Meaning, they are not support layers. Your bed almost sounds like a reverse-bed; 10 inches of comfort layers with a three (guessing) inch support layer, instead of a 3-4 inches of comfort layers on top of a 7-8 inch support layer.

Second, you have the latex comfort layers near the bottom. From what I have researched and read, those should be at the top. Latex is fast response compared to memory foam, so I would wonder if lower quality memory foam over latex is not defeating the benefits of it.

Most massage tables are only 26"-30" wide, while the smallest mattresses are 39" wide, which is a twin. If the toppers you purchased are twin, and you did not cut them to size, that would leave quite a few inches of overhang all around the massage table. This creates a “bow-ing” effect; the edges are being pulled down by gravity and their weight, causing the middle to bow up. Then, when you lay down on it, the opposite happens.

When you lay down on it, the edges flare upwards and the middle bows downwards. Unless your massage table is a continous flat surface one, as opposed to, having a pivot point near the center, the effect is compounded. It could further be exacerbated if the table is a folding one. The center becomes a weak link, yet that is where most of the weight falls and needs to be strong.

Additionally, the layers in most mattresses have some kind of adhesion holding the layers together, whether stitched or glued. Sort of like plywood, the individual layers are adhered to make one strong piece. Without that adhesion, the edges would fan, while the middle compresses more than it needs. A simple example you could try at home or the office would be to take a pad of sticky notes and balance it on your fingers. Place the glued side on two fingers and the side without adhesion on your other two fingers. Spread your fingers kind of like the Spock greeting, then press in the middle. You will notice the adhered side moves as one piece, while the other has gaps between the pieces of paper.

You mentioned that your hip/behind area breaks in mattresses harder, yet with your set-up, it would seem that you would feel even more discomfort there. You have the shoulder and foot areas trying to counter-act the mid-section, all while your mid-section and the mattress middle is trying to support the whole thing. Instead of your weight being distributed and supported, small areas are doing too much work.

Also, a massage table does not sound like it leaves you much room to spread out at all. So, along with everything else, your body has to scrunch up some due to width restrictions.

Maybe you think your budget does not allow for a really good mattress, yet I can tell you from personal experience that it does. The big chains, especially, mark up their stuff big time. Many of the family-owned ones do not do it to such a huge margin. I also thought that I would never be able to afford a great mattress for less. Just the other day I purchased a second queen mattress that is soft and supportive, with an added layer of wool and an amazing bamboo top for about half what I paid at a retail outlet for the other.

This is just my opinion, yet I really feel you can have an amazing SET within your budget. It sounds like you are sleeping on less than a twin now, and you could find a regular twin or even a full from one of the manufacturers on the membership page. I recommend you take a look and either call a few, or go to one near you. Maybe you are thinking that they are not as good, or they use cheap materials, but I can tell you from recent (two days ago) experience, that is not the case.

You will still be able to keep your toppers and use them to adjust the comfort, though I would stick with the latex ones and not so much the Walmart foam ones. Finally, a good base mattress will benefit your body. Even a twin would let it relax more, give you room to spread out a bit and lessen the tension.

Hope this helps, and if I made any errors or mistakes, there are a lot of good people on this site who can correct me, and perhaps, expand.

5

Hi fire_water,

Some of the better sources for mattress components or toppers I’m aware of are linked in the topper guidelines (post #4 here to save you going back).

@ Nevermore

Your comments and insights are great and very accurate but there are a couple of things that would be worth clarifying.

The bottom two layers (3" of “firm” latex and 3" of “medium” latex) would be a fairly typical “progressive” construction that is used in many mattresses. The bottom 3" layer would be a firm “support” layer (not a comfort layer) and the middle 3" would be a “transition” layer (which helps with both support and comfort and the “transition” between the support and comfort layers) and then the top few inches on top of this (either separate layers inside a common cover or toppers inside their own covers) would be the “comfort layers”. If the bottom two layers are still in good condition (which is likely) then all that would be needed is a few inches of softer materials on top. The key is that the “comfort layers” are suitable for a particular body type, sleeping positions, and personal preferences in terms of the type of material, their thickness, and their firmness so that in combination with the deeper layers they are a good match in terms of PPP.

The rest of your comments are “right on the money” and very helpful ad insightful IMO :slight_smile:

Phoenix

6

Phoenix,

Thanks for the reply. I reviewed every website listed in the Membership section and have “white listed” my choices to a few websites. Now I am looking through that list of websites and trying to distill the list down further.

As I described in my first post, I need to make sure I take into account the fact that my thin build tends to focus pressure on a smaller area of the material I sleep or sit on. I described my current mattress setup and would like to replace the dated memory foam with a soft, quality comfort layer of latex.

All that being said, my questions are:

  1. Which ILD range would you recommend?
  2. I’m thinking talalay latex due to its consistent softness. Do you agree?
  3. Blended or all natural latex. Blended might last longer in my case?

My current thoughts are to go with the soft range (18-22 ILD) but I’m concerned that my thin build will stress the latex too much and too quickly and within a year I’ll be in the same position I am now.

Thanks a lot for your help!

7

Hi fire_water,

I don’t make specific suggestions because there is no way for me to know and it would depend on which combination of ILD and thickness works best for you in terms of PPP in a specific mattress design. The specifics of every layer will affect the feel, performance, and choice of every other layer to different degrees and your own testing is the only way to know this (although the topper guidelines have some general suggestions that can help you make a more informed choice that has higher odds of success). Post #2 here also includes some links to some generic information that may be helpful as well.

As a general framework or reference point the most common version of a 3 x 3" layer mattress for a side sleeper would be some general version of F/M/S (with some differences between the FMS ILD’s between different manufacturers or types of latex) and then you could adjust your configuration or the specific ILD’s from there based on your actual sleeping experience.

The choice between Talalay and Dunlop is really a preference choice not a “better worse” choice. I’m tall and slim (6’ 5.5" and 195) and prefer Talalay comfort layers and my daughter is also very tall and slim (6" 2" and also slim) and sleeps on an all Dunlop latex mattress. There is more about the differences in “feel” between them in post #7 here but your own testing is really the only way to know which one you prefer.

The most common “quality/value/durability” choices would probably be either Blended talalay or 100% natural Dunlop but once again this will depend on your budget and preferences (there is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here). Blended Talalay will probably last longer in the lower ILD ranges than 100% natural Talalay although Radium has told me that they use a special curing past in their 100% natural Talalay in lower ILD’s and that they should be very comparable in terms of durability.

Durability wouldn’t be a concern to me with any version of good quality latex (it would be more durable than other foam materials regardless) and if you are using latex I would focus much more on PPP and building the best possible design because any combination of latex would be more durable than if you used other materials.

Phoenix