Topper Trepidation - Looking for a durable topper that's going to last!

[Meino]

Hi forum,

Thank you for existing and for all the hard work that goes into it building and maintaining this forum!

I have a few questions but my stats are 5’9" 170 - BMI around 25. I’m in the NYC area. I do have some back issues, and generally I look for a mattress that’s on the firmer side, so I have more lumbar and especially hip support. The problem always comes in that then, being a mostly side sleeper (who’s trying to become a back sleeper (which is harder than I thought it would be)) but more or less a combination sleeper side/back - anyway the problem is that my shoulder and often my neck will suffer. I tried avocado for it’s zones, but that just…didn’t work for me.

I have a tendency to want to avoid anything with a pillow-top or any kind of top really that’s not just a solid mattress, but padding of some kind. In my experience, this upper part has always degraded and started to sink and then sag way too early in the life of recent mattresses I’ve tried. I’ve tried a WinkBed, Avocado (without the topper), Casper too soft, and now a Stearns an Foster from Costo - Kirkland brand but it’s not being stern enough to foster a good night sleep…I mean it slowly sinks in during the first part of the night, and I don’t get the lower-body support I need. So thankfully I’ve found this forum and am planning to visit a few shops this weekend and the coming weeks. I’m in NYC area (Brooklyn) and planning to check out Nest, Dixie Foam, and perhaps Charles P Rogers this weekend.

So tldr is - am I being unreasonable to want to avoid a pillow top or sewn-on topper? I still actually have the winkbed, and if I could just remove the topper, I bet I’d be happy. If I am being unreasonable about topper avoidance, should I look for something that’s exclusively latex of a certain density or foam of a certain density - i.e. what toppers are good toppers in terms of durability? I feel more comfortable buying a rectangle and getting my own topper, which I can trade out if need be at a fraction of the cost of buying an entirely new mattress.

Also one quick Q if anyone knows - what is (for the Real Mattress) eucalyptus-based inherent rayon - is it just a fire retardant or is it a type of comfort layer. And if the latter, how should I evaluate it in terms of durability. See Link Here and scroll down a bit to see the cut-out.

Thank you - if anyone has other recommendations on places to visit/try in NYC please let me know. My price mid range tops at 2200 + 10-15%? I’d prefer of course to spend less of course because America

[Sensei]

Hey Meino,

Welcome to The Mattress Underground ! Thank you for the kind words and for your question.

I have a few questions but my stats are 5’9" 170 - BMI around 25. I’m in the NYC area. I do have some back issues, and generally I look for a mattress that’s on the firmer side, so I have more lumbar and especially hip support. The problem always comes in that then, being a mostly side sleeper (who’s trying to become a back sleeper (which is harder than I thought it would be)) but more or less a combination sleeper side/back - anyway the problem is that my shoulder and often my neck will suffer. I tried avocado for it’s zones, but that just…didn’t work for me.

Congrats on your new mattress shopping journey You are in good company, Meino, as the NYC area is a haven for finding firm mattresses. It sounds as though you have a strong grasp of your personal preferences and which sleeping positions are best for you. A back sleeping position can be beneficial for many reasons, such as acid reflux reduction, improved spinal alignment, neck pain relief, etc. You may find use of a back sleeping training pillow helpful, there are many good ones out there to experiment with.

[quote]I have a tendency to want to avoid anything with a pillow-top or any kind of top really that’s not just a solid mattress, but padding of some kind. In my experience, this upper part has always degraded and started to sink and then sag way too early in the life of recent mattresses I’ve tried. I’ve tried a WinkBed, Avocado (without the topper), Casper too soft, and now a Stearns an Foster from Costo - Kirkland brand but it’s not being stern enough to foster a good night sleep…I mean it slowly sinks in during the first part of the night, and I don’t get the lower-body support I need. So thankfully I’ve found this forum and am planning to visit a few shops this weekend and the coming weeks. I’m in NYC area (Brooklyn) and planning to check out Nest, Dixie Foam, and perhaps Charles P Rogers this weekend.
[/quote]

Sounds like you are hard at work with comparing different types of mattresses. You may encounter difficulty shopping the weekend with the approach of stormy weather forecasted for your area. In that case, it could be a good time to read up on some of Phoenix’s shopping tutorials . You may find these useful: “The Basic Functions of a Mattress” explains the roles that Comfort and Support play in a mattress; "Five Steps to Your Perfect Mattress"describes how to test mattresses for correct spinal alignment; and "Mattress Specifications You Need to Know"offers shopping tips regarding mattress quality and durability. Armed with this knowledge, you’ll be able to navigate the ins and outs of the mattress showrooms with confidence.

So tldr is - am I being unreasonable to want to avoid a pillow top or sewn-on topper? I still actually have the winkbed, and if I could just remove the topper, I bet I’d be happy. If I am being unreasonable about topper avoidance, should I look for something that’s exclusively latex of a certain density or foam of a certain density - i.e. what toppers are good toppers in terms of durability? I feel more comfortable buying a rectangle and getting my own topper, which I can trade out if need be at a fraction of the cost of buying an entirely new mattress.

This is one of those personal preference conundrums, unfortunately. If you don’t want a pillowtop/ topper design, look in another direction. As far as which topper would be most durable for you, latex toppers purchased from a reputable source, such as one of our TMU trusted members would be advisable, the density in this case being a measure of topper firmness and also a personal preference.

Also one quick Q if anyone knows - what is (for the Real Mattress) eucalyptus-based inherent rayon - is it just a fire retardant or is it a type of comfort layer. And if the latter, how should I evaluate it in terms of durability. See Link Here and scroll down a bit to see the cut-out.

Thanks for including the link referral to your question regarding the Real Mattress’s cover. The site says that they use two layers of eucalyptus-based inherent rayon within the mattress, one above the comfort layers and one below the coil unit, as a fire barrier. Both wool and natural latex are used as comfort materials.

Thank you - if anyone has other recommendations on places to visit/try in NYC please let me know. My price mid range tops at 2200 + 10-15%? I’d prefer of course to spend less of course because America

Hopefully, other NYC-based consumers can share some shopping ideas with you, Meino. Good luck with your showroom visits and looking forward to more updates when you have time… .

Sensei

[Meino]

Thanks Sensei!

I was able to check out those places - very glad I did. Two questions, you mentioned a back sleeping training pillow. Could you share an example of what you mean by that?

Also with respect to the Nest Natural Latex Hybrid, I had a couple questions about the durability of the two layers:

[ul]
[li].1" Organic Stretch Knit Cotton and Joma Wool
[li]1.5" 1.5lb Eco Flex Quilting Foam
[li]3" Oeko-tex Cert. Dunlop Latex 34ILD
[li]1" 1.5LB Eco-Friendly Comfort Foam
[li]6" Caliber Edge Coil Support Pocketed Coils 16 gauge steel

1" 1.5lb Support Foam

[/li]

With the 1.5" 1.5lb Eco Flex quilting foam, and the 1" 1.5lb eco-friendly comfort foam - do I need to worry at all in terms of durability there? The 1.5lb doesn’t sound super durable, but I understand this is a trusted member, so it’s probably better than I think. Can you clarify what level of concern I should have with these specs of the foam layers as far as durability goes?

Thank you!
Meino

[Sensei]

Hey Meino,

Thanks for your update .

I was able to check out those places - very glad I did. Two questions, you mentioned a back sleeping training pillow. Could you share an example of what you mean by that?

Excellent; glad you were able to make some store visits , I hope you found those helpful. Regarding a back sleeping training pillow, there are many options out there to choose from depending on what materials you prefer, and Amazon is a good place to find different styles and contents. These pillows are designed to encourage either back or side sleeping, and some feature zipper covers and adjustable fill contents. Here is one image example, courtesy of Google:

[center]
https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/42020/ScreenShot2021-08-25at10.35.35AM.png[/center]

[quote]Also with respect to the Nest Natural Latex Hybrid, I had a couple questions about the durability of the two layers:
• .1" Organic Stretch Knit Cotton and Joma Wool
• 1.5" 1.5lb Eco Flex Quilting Foam
• 3" Oeko-tex Cert. Dunlop Latex 34ILD
• 1" 1.5LB Eco-Friendly Comfort Foam
• 6" Caliber Edge Coil Support Pocketed Coils 16 gauge steel

1" 1.5lb Support Foam

With the 1.5" 1.5lb Eco Flex quilting foam, and the 1" 1.5lb eco-friendly comfort foam - do I need to worry at all in terms of durability there? The 1.5lb doesn't sound super durable, but I understand this is a trusted member, so it's probably better than I think. Can you clarify what level of concern I should have with these specs of the foam layers as far as durability goes?[/quote]

When evaluating durability potential for polyfoams, an HD/ High Density polyfoamis a 1.5- 2 lbs per cu. ft density. A 1.5 lb density polyfoam is often used in the thinner comfort or support layers with good durability results. When used below the coil unit, the 1" support foam serves to stabilize the coil base. Both 1.5 lb cu. ft. foam layers are fine as a durable choice and play a valuable supporting role to the other ingredients of dunlop latex and the 6" pocket coil unit in the Natural Latex Hybrid’s construction. How is your research going, BTW?

Sensei