tried Pure Latex Bliss - need advice !

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
1

so i tried Pure Latex Bliss today in both “nature” and “world’s best bed” and just out of curiosity i asked how much ( knowing that it will be too much anyway ).

the salesman shocked me by quoting 1799 for “nature” ( Queen Size )… at which point i was reaching for my wallet but when i inquired about return policy the salesman said “no returns” ! also the 1799 was a “only if you buy now” price, and the actual price if i choose to come back for it is 1899.

at which point i said i have to think about it, because the “no returns” part. of course by “think about it” i meant " i have to ask Phoenix " LOL

so, Phoenix, what do you say ? it would be $1899 + $130 shipping and probably NY tax. no returns. can i get it somewhere for less or with a possibility of return ? ( shipped to NY )

by the way, the mattress is AMAZING - makes tempurpedic seem like a mattress you find on the garbage by comparison. of course " world’s best bed " was better than “nature” but the “nature” was OK. i would be fine with the “nature” - even if it’s not as good as top of the line PLB it is still in a league of its own compared to every single mattress i tried in Sleepy’s - including ones that cost double what i was quoted for “nature”.

the other alternative for me would be to build the mattress myself. in that case i would use about 6 to 9 inches of latex over support layers from HR foam.

by the way, i also tried some mattress with 2" of latex over PU foam base and i could easily feel through the latex and it was no good - the latex was too thin, and the foam underneath it too hard. the PLB by comparison was just totally in another universe. so if i’m going to DIY i will use at least 6 inches of latex.

also amazingly in the showroom they had a 3" latex topper over the PLB World’s Best Bed - i tried it with and without the topper - the topper itself was softer than even any memory foam i have tried, and with the topper the bed was TOO soft, but without the topper World’s Best Bed was perfect. “nature” was a bit “shallower” in the cradling department but had a soft surface too.

anyway, Phoenix - what do you say ? i’m leaning towards building it myself now - hoping to recreate “world’s best bed” while using Latex for only top 1/2 of the mattress and HR foam for the bottom half.

finally, after trying the PLB now memory foam is 100% out of the question for me - you could not pay me to sleep on memory foam now that i tried the PLB. its either all - latex for me now, or latex over PU foam.

i think i will actually go there again and spend more time trying them out.

2

Hi g1981c,

I certainly can’t tell you what to choose but I can help you with how to choose (see post #1 here). You would need to search to see if the same mattres was available elsewhere for less (I don’t keep track of prices) but I can tell you that this is significantly below PLB’s MAP pricing (Minimum Advertised Pricing).

As you can see in post #15 here… I would also suggest you avoid the temptation to try to design and build your own mattress from scratch or to try and “duplicate” a mattress using different materials unless you are intrigued by the project regardless of what it costs you, are prepared for the steep learning curve and time involved, and are fine with the costs involved in making mistakes (both financially and in terms of time and quality of sleep). My priorities would be to start local and then add online manufacturers if the value was significantly better (I usually consider 20% difference between local and online as being roughly equivalent value)…

Since the PLB mattress you are looking at seems to be very good value … and similar to many similar latex mattresses sold by online manufacturers and better than their MAP pricing … I would certainly consider it.

I would first make sure though that the mattress you are buying and your sales receipt is marked as new (you can check the law tag when you receive it), not a floor model or return, and that they are authorized dealers and that you will have the full warranty coverage.

If all of this looks to be above board … then I would say it’s good value and then you would need to decide on whether the tradeoff of having no exchange was worth the lower cost based on your own personal value equation. Exchanges add to the cost of a mattress and whether this was a good idea for you would depend on your confidence level that the mattress was a good match for your needs and preferences. The good news is that you can always make a mattress that is a little on the firm side softer by adding a topper but it’s much more difficult to make a mattress where the comfort layers are too thick and soft any firmer if you discover that they are too thick and soft for good alignment. I would compare this to some of the online manufacturers listed in post #21 here as a “value reference”.

This way you would be choosing between “good and good” and could make your choice based on all the objective, subjective, and intangible differences that were most important to you.

Phoenix

3

ha ! there is a bit of a forum bug ! the main page still says that this thread has no replies, when clearly you have replied. i discovered your reply by accident. ok i will read it now.

4

OK i think i will need to go there again, because i didn’t spend enough time understanding that mattress - i got a general feel - but i think i need to get a more than general feel now.

If there is an article on this site about how to properly try a mattress in the store somebody please point me to it, because i already tried it, but before i can actually buy it i need to try it PROPERLY and i’m not sure exactly how.

by the way i called PLB and they confirmed the store i went to is an authorized dealer.

5

Hi g1981c,

This can be because of how the cache works on the site. When you aren’t logged in then the pages that are served are cached to prevent the server from overloading when there are hundreds of guests looking at the forum. Usually once you log in (or wait) … you will be “caught up”. On some occasions you will get an error when you log in when you are getting a cached page but this can be solved by just logging in again. I’m hoping that an upgrade that is about to happen will make this work better but is’s just one of those weird (at least to someone that isn’t a software expert like me) cache/software issues and every setting seems to have its own issues in some circumstances.

You’ll find the links for testing for pressure relief and alignment in post #1 here.

Phoenix

6

cache makes sense. i need to work on my patience :slight_smile:

anyway, i see those links - i’m passing out now, but i will take a look when i am in condition to do so.

thanks !

7

so i went there again today and tried “nature” and “best” again but this time i spent about half an hour laying on them instead of 3 minutes like last time. and thank god for that - because after a few minutes i started to feel pressure points which i didn’t feel simply laying down briefly.

the last time i estimated that “Nature” was OK by itself just slightly firm, Best was “perfect” by itself and too soft with a topper.

today after laying down for a longer time i concluded that “nature” by itself is hard as a rock. “nature” with a topper still too hard. “best” by itself also too hard. “best” with a 3" topper almost there but i still bottomed out on the base layer and felt the same pressure point. had the topper been firmer i think “best” with the topper would be perfect, but the topper was too soft to make much difference.

last time i thought the construction was progressive, but today after more extensive testing it felt differential - the comfort layers were soft in both “nature” and “best” and the support layers were hard in both cases. i could easily feel the bottom layer through all the top layers even on the “best” with a 3" topper.

to feel “through” the bed i sat on it ( as opposed to laying down ) and lifted my legs up so my entire weight ( 230 lbs ) was on my ass - and my ass went through all the comfort layers without much resistance and landed on the support layer which it barely dented.

so i left empty handed, and now i am pretty set on the DIY route - as they say - if you want something done right - do it yourself :slight_smile:

the “best” with a 3" talalay topper was CLOSE to perfect for me, so for my design i will take it as a starting point.

out of the total 15" profile of this thing it had 6" of support with 9" of comfort and i bottomed out all of the 9" of comfort and my back alignment was pretty good in all positions ! but i still had a pressure point on my chest. my back alignment would probably have been best if i sank in just a tad less - maybe an inch less - it was very close. so i will need higher ILD comfort layers to keep me from going so deep and i will also need a lower ILD support layer so i don’t bottom out on it so hard - otherwise a 15" profile i think should be perfect.

i will most likely use PU foam for the bottom 1/3 or so of the mattress.

ps: sorry for such a lengthy description, but i was afraid i will forget my impressions so i needed to document them here :slight_smile:

OK now i can relax and continue the research !

8

also before i forget, the 3" topper despite doing little to hold me up is pretty cool - i wanted to get - but they wouldn’t discount it - and i’m not going to pay $600 for a topper. with the topper i felt no desire whatsoever to use a pillow - it is much softer than the pillow i am using now to begin with, and about as thick. pushing your face into the topper it feels like the topper is made out of female breasts LOL - the feel of it is right on point ! as i mentioned the support isn’t really there but i can certainly see myself using that topper - it is also zippered which is cool. for $400 i would have probably taken it.

the topper appeared softer than the top layer of the mattresses. if the top layers were 19 ILD i guess the topper was 14 ILD ?

9

Hi g1881c,

I would question a couple of your assumptions which could be quite “risky”.

First of all … I would pay no attention to how a mattress feels … particularly latex … when you sit on it with all your weight on your rear end. This is so different from any weight distribution when you sleep that it would have little relevance.

I also would strongly question whether you are “going through” 9" of latex in the upper layers in your normal sleeping positions. With your weight this would be a VERY risky construction in terms of alignment (comfort layers possible much too thick and soft). Differential and progressive are also not a “feeling” and don’t have rigid lines that defines one over the other. They are just different pathways to similar goals (PPP).

Hopefully you are up for the potential expense and challenge and learning curve of designing your own mattress and I’ll certainly be interested in seeing what you come up with :slight_smile:

Phoenix

10

i was thinking to order about half of the layers first, then maybe if i have half the layers i can fold each one in half ( since i will be doing a Queen size after all ) and thus in-effect test the full thickness of the mattress with only half of the layers, and depending on it being too soft of too firm order the other half of the layers.

is there a better strategy ?

you have some great advice for testing mattresses, i wish there was a tried and true strategy for designing them as well :slight_smile:

11

Hi g1981c,

The “best” strategy is hundreds of hours spent testing specific layering combinations to the point where you can start to accurately predict how certain layering combinations will feel to you.

There are just too many variables for this to be possible or practical. Most of the people who have designed mattresses for decades will tell you they are still on a learning curve. The “best” strategy is to work with one or more of the experts who already know through technical knowledge or experience what you would otherwise have to learn or trying to become one yourself :slight_smile:

Phoenix

12

how can i find out if there are places around here ( Brooklyn, NY ) that could build a custom mattress for me and then swap some layers for firmer or softer after i try it ? Is there some database ? Just brute force approach through Yellow Pages or something ?

or are such services not available ? i know Dreamfoam will swap the top layer of their 10" latex mattress at no charge, but that’s just one layer. is there a place where i could lets say build a 3 or 4 layer mattress and swap ANY layer i don’t like after the fact ?

13

one more note about my PLB testing - forgot to mention it yesterday - but now i actually think this may be critical:

whenever i was laying on a soft setup with a topper - the one that cradled me the way i wanted to and had me aligned the way i wanted - i found it impossible to relax my mind and muscles at the same time. i never tried a waterbed but i imagine that’s what laying on a waterbed must be like.

it’s not that i needed to use my muscles to compensate for lack of support and too much sinking in - no - as i said i had different PLB mattresses and toppers to play around with so i “dialed in” exactly the support i wanted - but my mind would not let the muscles relax because it couldn’t feel much hard support underneath my body - i felt like floating in the clouds - and my mind wouldn’t let me fully relax because it instinctively kept looking for some sort of firm stable surface and wasn’t finding any - instead it was like levitating on some force field.

so i could use my mind to force my muscles to relax ( to test the alignment and pressure points ) but keeping the muscles relaxed required a concentrated mental effort.

i just sort of assumed that once i fall asleep the muscles will relax, but now i’m not so sure about it - what if i end up with the waterbed problem - where it gives you perfect support and relieves all the pressure points and you still wake up sore and tired because your muscles never fully relaxed when you slept ! ! ! ? ? ?

this makes me think back to when i tried the tempurpedic - after allowing about 30 seconds to sink in my body and mind just switched off - because i was mummified in the memory foam - of course when i tried to turn it was basically impossible - but now it appears this is a double edged sword - the same thing that allows me to so freely toss and turn ( and even literally spring out of bed ) on Latex at the same time i think might prevent me from properly relaxing ?

14

it seems there are 3 distinct possibilities here:

1 - just a firm support core, no comfort layers:

pros: easy to toss and turn, easy to relax

cons: pressure points

2 - deep memory foam

pros: easy to relax, no pressure points

cons: hard or impossible to toss and turn

3 - deep latex

pros: easy to toss and turn, no pressure points

cons: hard or impossible to relax

damn ! you just can’t win can you ?

would this be a reason to try a combination of memory foam and latex ?

or maybe just use more of HR foam and less of either memory and latex ?

or perhaps use 50% HR foam, 25% latex and 25% memory or something like that ?

15

Hi g1981c,

One of the posts I linked for you earlier was post #1 here which includes all the information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice.

Step 3 in that post is all about the importance of working with the “experts” and finding the better options in your area and how to find them. When I’m looking for them I do a google search for “mattress, city, state”, eliminate the ones that sell only major brands, and then do some extra research online or on the phone for the ones that have some promise. I go right through to the end of the google listings because there are often retailers or manufacturers that don’t have an online presence.

Post #2 here has the better options and possibilities I’m aware of in the greater NYC area. there is also a more categorized list with more detailed descriptions of some of them in post #7 here.

The same post also includes an optional step of online manufacturers you could consider … some of which make mattresses similar to the design you are mentioning.

A few examples of manufacturers who make multiple layer mattresses where any layer can be exchanged include …

https://www.foamsweetfoam.com/

Phoenix

16

Hi g1981c,

I think that these are questions that only you can answer. Some people spend their whole lives looking for the 'floating on a cloud" feeling while others may not like it at all. I would trust your own instincts about each type of mattress as these are personal preferences. Sometimes what we have learned to expect in a mattress can certainly affect how we sleep until like any “habit” or body “conditioning” it is unlearned over time. This is part of why an adjustment period to a new sleeping surface can be necessary.

Phoenix

17

Hi g1981c,

There are no formulaic answers to your questions unfortunately and when you are one of those who is focused on smaller details of your “perfect sleeping system” it will take more time for your personal testing to identify it. One of the reasons I like memory foam/latex combinations though is because they have some of the memory foam “slow response” but with latex over them they also have more surface resilienceso this would seem to be a logical direction to test. I don’t think I would be as focused on percentages though as on how your body/mind feels and responds. Freedom of movement while you are sleeping is an essential part of healthy sleeping.

Phoenix

18

oops - i didn’t see your answers again, but this time because it wrapped around to second page.

i’m going to start a new thread on this squishy vs resilient issue.