Trying to get our Flobed firmness 'right' - the quest for a two headed unicorn

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
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Hi, Phoenix/all…

As I mentioned in an earlier post, we have a Flobed that we just cannot seem to get ‘right’ in terms of comfort - even after trying what seems like every combination of ILDs under the sun - and then some.

I seem to be having a harder time than my wife, so we’ve been trying to get my side right first - then tweak hers further if necessary. So, I’ll just mention the one side for now, in the hopes that we can FINALLY get that right and go from there…

My stats: 175-180 lb (varies), 5’10, prefer stomach sleeping (though realize I probably shouldn’t). Have been trying to sleep on my side primarily on the Flobed, as I can’t seem to find a combo that doesn’t “hammock” my lower back.

We tried the top of the line “V-Zone” initially over the Euro Slat foundation (now just the normal slats - did NOT like the Euro slats one bit) with the following config to start (bottom to top): Medium (28 ILD), Firm (32 ILD), V-Zone, Convolute (not sure but believe 14 ILD).

That was a disaster, and it threw my back out for over a month - I even missed work since I couldn’t walk or even stand up much of the time (not fun).

MONTHS later, here’s our current try:

Super-Firm (44), Micro Coils (unknown ILD - specs below), Firm (28), 2’’ 5 lb Sensus Memory Foam (unknown ILD), Quilt Layer.

This is one of the most interesting and “hopeful” configs so far - I’ve only tried one night so far (last night), but my back feels much happier this AM, even though I did wake up quite a few times throughout the night, feeling like I was laying “on” the coils - even though there was a 1’’ Quilt layer, 2’’ Sensus Memory Foam and a 3’’ 28 ILD “Firm” layer between my body and the coils.

Note that I did try the more obvious just before the current combo (Springs on the bottom, where you’d expect them to be):

Micro Coils, Super Firm (44 ILD), X-Firm (36 ILD), 2’’ Costco NovaGel, Quilted cover and support was questionable. I was OK on the mattress but if wife came over to my side - not good. And if we were…um…being husband and wife…my back would KILL me with this config - felt like my spine was collapsing. And she’s all of 110 lbs soaking wet.

My thinking on coils in the mid tier was from seeing the Berkeley Ergonomics bed, where they have a support layer of individual pocketed coils at the bottom (REALLY want to get my hands on some of these!), then micro coils above that, then a 3’’ layer of latex. So, the micro coils are in the same spot on my ‘Franken-Bed’ as the BE at this point, and it seemed logical to have the 44 ILD at the bottom, taking the place of the BE pocketed coils for support.

As my wife and I have come to the conclusion that we just might not be able to sleep on 100% latex and are traditionalist “spring people” by nature, I’m considering buying a 6’’ spring system from a local manufacturer here in Michigan and putting that at the bottom, with a “shoddy pad” between the springs and the latex. That ‘should’ leave me room in the Flobeds case for ONE support layer of latex (3’‘) and 2’’ of comfort layer. But I’m also wondering if we’d feel the springs through the ‘shoddy pad’ (whatever in the heck that is).

Trying to get this ‘right’ is like trying to find a two headed unicorn. I’m just not sure it exists (or is even remotely possible).

After 6 months, I am just SO. FRUSTRATED. at not being able to get a truly good nights sleep. So, would really appreciate any and all help/suggestions!

Thx…

PS: ETA - one very interesting thing I found, is that the SF-Coil-F-Senus config feels FREAKING AWESOME when it’s not zipped up inside the Flobed case. When I zip it all up, the feel of the bed actually changes. It’s still “good” at that point, and if I lay directly on the Flobed 1’’ quilted case, I think it’s decent. But when I put my Protect-a-Bed (very, VERY thin) protector on, it feels less good. Then when I add sheets - even less. It’s almost like the protector and sheets change the feel of the mattress, which wife is insistent that it can’t. So, am wondering if the zipping up of the “guts” of the bed are crunching the layers together to a point where firmness changes, and then the protector and sheets are further crunching it, changing firmness even more? I’m REALLY tempted to get a zippered topper cover, put the Sensus in THAT, and lay it on the bed - so that we’re not crunching up the comfort layer. But that’s another couple hundred bucks for a good one (from SLAB), so not sure yet what I’m gonna do…

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Hi bbb_63,

One of the difficulties of DIY types of construction like Flobeds is that in spite of the fact that for most people it provides a range of options that can zero in on layering combinations that work very well … for some this doesn’t seem to happen as easily. There is usually a general “range” where people do well on a particular mattress but for some people this range is very narrow and smaller changes can be necessary to accommodate those who are more sensitive to smaller differences in construction. At one end of this range are the people who seem to be able to sleep on anything and at the other are the people who seem to be affected by very small differences or who can’t seem to get things quite right in spite of the flexibility of these types of mattresses.

Besides individual sensitivity levels to layering options, there are several other reasons for this …

One of these is that the “feel” and performance of a latex support core is different from an innerspring and that in some cases … no matter what the advantages of a latex support core may be … only an innerspring will do.

Another reason is that layer thickness can play just as big a role in the performance and feel of a mattress as changing ILD’s and with these types of mattress the layer thicknesses that can be exchanged are “standardized”. For example … a perfect construction for some may be a 2" layer of softer form in the middle of the mattress with firmer foam both over and under it but these types of more sophisticated constructions … while normally not necessary … are not one of the options that are available. In addition to this … the Flobeds only has a single option for the upper layer and some people may need a different layer thickness or ILD in this layer to get it “perfect”.

So the “bottom line” is that for the large majority of people these types of “exchangeable layer” mattresses can be “perfect” and have many benefits and provide options that are not available in most other types of mattresses … there are always exceptions where other designs or options may be work better for some people … especially those who are more sensitive to smaller variations in design.

This construction includes 11" of latex and while this can provide greater layer flexibility … a thicker mattress also has the effect of making the entire mattress softer. In other words it has a greater “soft to firm” range of compression and for some people the amount of “travel” in the mattress may be a little too much. In a case like this where hammocking can be an issue … it would normally be beneficial to have the firmest part of the vZone under the heaviest part of the body (pelvic area) to prevent it from sinking down into the mattress as much. This would allow for the use of softer foam under the shoulders which are normally both wider and lighter than the hip/pelvis area. This way the pelvis won’t “rotate” as much and the risk of misalignment is lower for most people. In addition to this … it may be worthwhile trying some more unusual layering combinations to “move towards” the feel of other types of mattresses (within the limitations of latex itself).

An example of this may be an extra firm bottom layer for stability, next would be the 2" top layer as a softer part of the support layer that the upper layers can bend into rather than compress. Next could be the vZone with the firmer parts under the hips/pelvis to prevent hammocking and softer under the shoulders. Finally a top 3" layer of medium to allow for some softness/thickness but without being so soft that the risk of stomach sleeping increases. This would mean that the top layer partly compresses with weight but also that the upper layers will also “bend” into the deeper softer layer. This can give some extra firmness to the surface but also allow for the extra pressure relief when needed as the upper layers “bend” into the softer part of the support layers.

While this may not work at all (because of some variation of my earlier comments) … it would be an interesting experiment to see how this type of more unusual layering changed your experience on the mattress and could provide some helpful “directions”.

So with the latex layering which (I think) you now have available (which may not provide the options for the “best” version of this type of layering) … I would tend to try your super firm on the bottom … the 2" convolute next, the vZone arranged as close as possible to the zoning I mentioned (firmest under the pelvis), and then the medium 28 ILD on top. Your experience on this may provide some helpful feedback (if you haven’t already tried it). Of course you could also use other materials in the mix (as you are) but this would be an "all latex’ layering that may be worth trying.

I’m assuming that the microcoils you have are similar to these? What is the height? If this is the case … then this layering would be similar in concept (at least on the bottom) to the suggestion I made although with a combination of different materials. The 28 ILD latex is more medium than firm but the memory foam may be thin enough and “firm enough” (although ILD in memory foam is much less meaningful than with other fast response foams) in combination with the slightly higher ILD latex layer to work.

If these are actual microcoils of the type I linked to … then they are designed for use close to the top rather than as a support layer in the mattress. They are coils that simulate softer foam with the unique characteristics of springs rather than foam. With the softer novagel on top and the soft microcoils on the bottom … this may have been the reason for the “collapse” with “movement”. It may also be fairly uncomfortable with the firmer foams so close to the top and only the novaform to isolate you from the firmness although with stomach sleeping this may be OK.

Every layer that goes about slow response of heat sensitive foam can affect the heat that reaches it and its performance and this is not your imagination. This includes any quilting, the type of fabric used in the cover, and the protector and the sheets. This is in addition to the changes that can happen with any compression that can happen with “squishing” a layer into a cover. All of these can certainly make a difference.

Hopefully this has given you a few ideas even though it would still be worth testing some of the innerspring/latex options in your area. It would also be helpful to know the particular components you currently have available to choose from. You seem to have quite a few options available (latex of various ILDs, different types of memory foam, microcoils etc) but I’m not sure what your complete “inventory” currently consists of :slight_smile:

Phoenix