Tuft and needle vs Brooklyn bedding best mattress ever?

Narrowed it down to 2, I’m looking for something Firm, and also has great cooling…What’s a better choice, the Tuft is about 75 bucks cheaper, but does it get too hot compared to the BB bed? What would be firmer and cooler? Does the tuft sleep hot? thanks

Hi lowdown123,

The first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components would be the best “match” for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) or how a mattress will “feel” to you based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than either your own careful testing (using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or when that’s not possible your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

Unfortunately there are no “standard” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness as well and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.

I would also be very cautious about about using other people’s experiences or reviews on a mattress (either positive or negative) as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you and in many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a group of people may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (see post #13 here).

When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences or even to other mattresses that they are familiar with than anyone else (including me).

There is also more about the “simplified choice” group of mattresses (including Tuft & Needle and Brooklyn Bedding’s BestMattressEver) in posts #1 and #2 in this topic. As you can see the tradeoff between them is that the BestMattressEver uses some higher quality and more costly materials (two layers of latex over a 2 lb polyfoam base layer) while the Tuft & Needle uses slightly lower quality and less costly materials (high performance polyfoam over a 1.8 lb polyfoam base layer).

The latex in the BestMattressEver would be more resilient or “bouncy” while the high performance polyfoam in the Tuft & Needle would have less resilience or “bounce”. The BestMattressEver would also uses slightly more durable materials as well but both of them don’t have any lower quality materials or weak links in their design so it’s unlikely that durability would be an meaningful issue for either one unless if you are in a higher weight range (more than the lower 200’s or so).

It’s also not possible to quantify the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system for any particular person because there are so many variables involved with this as well and there is no standardized testing for temperature regulation with different combinations of materials. There is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range.

Having said that … most people wouldn’t have temperature regulation issues with either one of them because neither one contains any memory foam which is the type of foam that is the most likely to cause temperature regulation issues for some people.

While only you can decide which one would be a “better” choice based on the criteria that are important to you (regardless of whether the same mattress would be a “better” choice for someone else) … when you are down to finalists that are all choices between “good and good” (which you are) and none of them have any lower quality materials or “weak links” in their design (which they don’t) and if there are no clear winners between them then you are in the fortunate position that either of them would likely be a good choice and post #2 here can help you make a final choice based on your local testing or mattresses you have slept well on, your more detailed conversations with each of them, your confidence about PPP and the suitability of each one, their prices, your preferences, the options you have after a purchase to fine tune the mattress or exchange or return the mattress or individual layers, any additional extras that are part of each purchase, and on “informed best judgement” based on all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

I would also keep in mind that both of them have a great return policy that lets you test them in your bedroom instead of a showroom without any risk so you can decide whether the one you choose is a good match for you in terms of PPP based on your own experience instead of someone else’s experience that may be very different from your own.


Hi Lowdown123,

Although i am not familiar with the tuft mattress i can tell you based on my experience with the BB best mattress that the latex does feel very cool, like the guys at Brooklyn Bedding told me it would. I have the medium and it feels a little more firm, i am really impressed with how awesome this mattress really is. You can see some other comments from my experience on the topic Brooklyn Bedding Best Mattress Ever. Let everyone know what you decide, i know my re search here really helped me make my decision.


I’ve been considering all the “simplified choice” mattresses, including both Tuft & Needle [T&N] and Brooklyn Bedding [BB].

One striking contrast that came through for me, that others may have missed, is about the size of the mattress and what each company deems acceptable variability within the stated mattress dimensions.

I was shocked to read this on the BB site:
“Mattress sizes may vary +/- 1-1/2” & weights are approximate."

One and a half inches is a lot!

I had a dissatisfying online chat with BB customer service, in which the representative gave various conflicting answers about how common that level of size variation is and why (one reason given was so blankets can be tucked in). I feel you are the factory producing your own product, you should have the quality control to produce your stated product in the stated standard mattress size. And your customer service reps should know what they are talking about and present information clearly and confidently to customers (with proper punctuation and capitalization, but that’s a separate quality issue).

By contrast, here is the response I got by email from T&N customer service when I asked how much variability there is in the sizing for each individual mattress made:

“In regards to variability in the sizing of the mattress, it could vary by half an inch on each side. If you notice any variation more than that, we would suggest waiting a week for it to fully expand. If it still hasn’t come to full size, then it would be considered out of spec and we would definitely get you a replacement right away.”

That’s the kind of commitment and service I expect, and I have been very impressed with all customer service interactions I’ve had with T&N. In fact, I just took the plunge and bought a mattress today :).

I’d like to thank Phoenix and the folks who have posted here for helping me learn about and decide on a new mattress and base. My T&N 100 nights will start sometime next week.

(An aside here about sizes: It has been a little frustrating for me to shop for both a mattress and something to put it on that will be the appropriate dimensions and materials to suit the size for the mattress, slat spacing, height from the floor to the mattress, etc. Phoenix’s resource about mattress bases is a great place to start. But so many bases/foundations and beds are just not designed for standard mattress sizes! Many have such idiosyncratic dimensions, it’s hard to imagine anything other than that company’s custom mattress fitting in or on it.)

Hi gotobed,

You can see some comments about “standard sizing” in the industry in post #2 here. While different manufacturers can have different standard sizing or dimensional tolerances for different reasons … and most people would normally return a mattress due to comfort issues … with a 120 day return/refund policy if your mattress is out of spec or even if it’s inside their spec tolerance and you aren’t happy with it for any reason then you can always return it at no cost.

Congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

You certainly made a good quality/value choice and I hope you have the chance to share your comments and feedback when you’ve received it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.



Like you I was disappointed with my discussions about mattress size but was resigned to accept it. I had narrowed my choice down to DreamFoam’s 12" Ultimate Dreams Supreme Gel, and the Tuft & Needle. A few reviews of the king sized mattresses from DreamFoam, mentioned/complained of the “short” dimensions of the inflated mattress. In one forum I asked if the standard King Size was 80"x76." Chuck responded to my question with,

            "If you Google King Mattress size that is what will come up. However, every company makes the actual size of their bed 75X79."  

Being pretty skeptical by nature, I focused on “every company makes” and went and measured my current mattress and, as Chuck said, it was 75x79… So while a part of me felt cheated, and another part was indignant that “they” don’t just change the published standard, I accepted that “fact.” Of course I missed the post referred to by Phoenix below about sizes before I bought.

HOWEVER, my brand new Tuft & Needle Mattress measures the full 80"x76"… something I consider especially important for a foam mattress as we lose sleeping area near the edges due to the nature of the foam. So kudos to T&N for giving me a true King Size… and ANOTHER added benefit to the added area, is that my fitted sheets fit better on this 10" thick mattress than it did on my old 13" thick inner spring.

Hi jim.burton,

I noticed that you registered with your email as your username which means that automated spambots will be able to harvest your email and add you to their spam lists. If you’d like I can remove the @ and the domain after it and change your username to just jim.burton (or any username you wish).

Thanks for taking the time to share your comments and feedback about your Tuft & Needle mattress … I appreciate it :slight_smile:

They are correct in the sense that mattresses like all soft goods will have some variances in their sizing from manufacturer to manufacturer or depending on the specifics of the construction and the specifics of the components and the cover they are using. No matter what measurements the industry may use as a “standard sizing” there would generally be a variance of +/- an inch or so which is the standard variance in the industry. For most people a very small variance of an inch wouldn’t be an issue (it would be half an inch on either side). I know you’ve read this but there is more about “standard sizing” in post #2 here for the sake of others that read your post.

Having said all that … it’s great to hear that you are happy with your choice!


Yes, please. I’ll accept your offer to change user name to jim.burton.

Whenever I visit with production people at mattress factories they will inevitably complain about the lack of consistency of innerspring sizes and PU foam being supplied. It’s a reality of the business that there will always be some variance, as it’s not as precise a product as something like a camshaft on an audi R8. We do tend to have the best luck with molded foams and innerspring beds with edge reinforcement units, but in the end it is a hand-made product and there will always be a bit of variation. Even when I order a custom sized mattress, the standard boilerplate allows for +/- 1".

Hi jim.burton,



i looked at the T&N, #BME , and nest love bed. i ended up ordering a nest love bed last night.

i was initially favoring T&N, especially after reading about them in dwell and having read all 33 pages of the T&N thread. but then i did more research and read about the #BME and the nest love bed. i have read elsewhere on here where phoenix refers to comparing good v. good, and in my case i was comparing good v. good v. good. they are all three stellar mattresses for a very good price. it’s kind of regrettable that we have to try to find miniscule differences between them to make a choice. even though the polyfoam in the T&N was certipur-US (likewise for #BME and nest love bed), there were some reports of T&N mattresses having a “new” or “chemical” smell. it’s reasonably safe in terms of VOCs and other hazardous materials, but a minor nuisance. for whatever reason the two-layer approach of T&N and nest made more sense to me intuitively than the #BME’s three layers. the nest love bed appealed to me because they specifically stated the smell is pretty much non-existent (just like T&N and #BME the polyfoam is certipur-US, and like #BME the latex is oeko-tex certified, so all are reasonably safe), and because in further conversation with them over email they had the “right” answers. in other words, it seemed like they valued the same things i do in terms of health and sustainability. so i felt like i was in good, like minded hands with nest. this will be different for everyone, but i’m excited for the new mattress to show up next week.

Hi robb.,

Congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

It’s great to see that you did some very good research and ended up making a choice that was the best “match” for all the parts of your personal value equation that were most important to you even though as you said the differences in “value” may have been relatively small and based more on your own preferences than on “better/worse” comparisons.

I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback when you’ve received it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.


Hi All! Great discussion! Its one I am following with great interest as all these mattress come compress-packed which leads to the size variations. Gotobed mentioned that the T&N rep said the bed “could vary by half an inch on each side” which would seem to say it could be off by an inch. Is that correct?