Unreliable ILD information from vendors

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
1

I’ve been researching moderately priced foam mattresses, in search of a twin xl mattress that will help with neck and severe sciatica (lower back) issues. I’ll be placing the mattress on an adjustable frame.

I’ve already tried Zinus Pressure Relief Memory Foam Cloud 12" (purchased after spending a few nights on a queen model at a friend’s house but rejected after two successive mattresses failed to fully expand), Sleeponlatex 9" medium (concrete slab – wish I’d gone for the soft) and Allswell 10" hybrid (well-made but too firm).

During showroom visits, I briefly tried and liked the Serta Luxury 12" Gel Memory Foam (https://www.samsclub.com/p/serta-mattinabox-tw-serta/prod21234453?xid=plp_product_1_2) and two other medium-firm slab-like foam mattresses, including a Sealy iComfort model and the Denver Mattress Athlete’s Choice (https://denvermattress.furniturerow.com/pd/Denver-Mattress/Athletes-Choice-Gold-Mattress/3f0fc5e5-f765-49e0-8052-72b4a65b18f0?Cat=Mattresses|Athletes-Choice). These mattresses either are unavailable in the size I need, too expensive or do not provide enough information about construction.

Leading contenders now are Nest Bedding Love & Sleep, Brooklyn Bedding Bowery, Bear Mattress and Ghostbed. I’m about set on the Bear Mattress, because I’m a combo sleeper of “medium” weight, typically moving from back to side to stomach, and reviews indicate the Bear provides more support for stomach sleepers.

But it’s difficult to get reliable foam density and ILD information about these mattresses from any company besides Nest.

Here’s the info for Nest Bedding Love & Sleep medium:
1st Layer: 1" THERMIC® Phase Change Cooling Cover
2nd Layer: 3" 2.8lb Energex Cooling Comfort layer 14 ILD
3rd Layer: 1" 2lb Convoluted SmartFlow (convoluted polyurethane) Layer 30 ILD
4th Layer: 5" 1.8lb Support Foam 36 ILD

Specs for Brooklyn Bedding Bowery:
3" layer of Energex foam 3.5lb Medium (28ILD - 30ILD)
2" layer of comfort foam (24ILD)
5" high-density base foam 1.8lb 36ILD

Bear Mattress
Celliant cover
Comfort Layers:
1.0" 4.0 lb Graphite memory foam
1.5" 3 lb high performance polyfoam
1.0" 3 lb (slightly firmer) high performance polyfoam
Support Layers:
6.5" 1.8 lb polyfoam

When I asked Bear for ILDs for each layer, the company responded, “Our foams range from 3.5-1.8 lbs and 9-22 ILD.”

An outside contender is GhostBed:
1.5" Top layer is continuous aerated 3.5 lb density (synthetic) latex
2" of advanced technology cool gel memory foam, 4.0lb density - 100% pressure relieving
7.5", 2.0lb density, HD support core - the top two layers are the comfort layers and this is the support layer to prevent “bottoming out” of the mattress.

GhostBed hasn’t responded to requests for ILD information.

Another is Luma Sleep Foam + Latex 10". I’m awaiting details from the company, although they indicate this mattress is available only with a medium (26-30 ILD) latex layer:
Tencel blend cover
2" Latex Foam
2" HD Transistion PolyFoam
6" HD Base PolyFoam

GhostBed and Luma appear to use quality materials, but I’m focused away from springier latex foams at the moment. With the TMU5 discount, however, the Luma is priced the same as the Bear Mattress – which makes it quite tempting.

Here’s the confusion: reviewers find the Love & Sleep and Bowery to be similar, and yet ILDs are 14-30-36 for the Love & Sleep and 28-24-36 for the Bowery. The Bear Mattress is supposed to be more firm than either of the other two, but its ILDs supposedly range from 9 to 22!

For that matter, the sleeponlatex medium (purchased after consultation with the owner of the company, no less) that I found to be concrete-like supposedly had ILDs of 20-34 for its two layers.

At this point, I’m disinclined to trust any ILD information I receive from these companies and go with feel. If the mattress doesn’t work, I’ll try something else.

These are my observations. I welcome your feedback.

2

I’m not sure what the question is but here’s some of what I know about ILD ratings. A #32 ILD poly foam core feels much firmer than a #32 Talalay latex core. A #32 Dunlop latex core feels firmer than a #32 Talalay core. Memory foam is all over the place especially if coming from China which most Amazon beds are. You found the Sleep on Latex to feel like a concrete slab which is should not have but Dunlop latex does not come in a specific ILD but rather a range of up to 5 points so if both pieces were at the higher end of the ranger it would feel much firmer than if both pieces were at the lower end of the range. That’s why I prefer to sell Talalay, I know what I’m going to get and can make a proper recommendation knowing without a doubt how it will feel.

3

Thanks for that information! I should have posted in the General forum but appreciate the clarification on ILD.

Bear Mattress and LumaSleep have followed up with some more detail:

Bear says, “While our 2 comfort and transition layers total 4” thick, and range from 9-22 ILD, we did engineer our base, support foam as 6" thick and is 35 ILD. We have been reviewed by verified buyers as a firmness rating of 7 out of 10, with a scale of 1 to 10 and 10 being most firm."

Luma says, “Foam + latex only available in medium. 30 ILD. Density of foam layers is 1.8#”. That doesn’t quite answer the question about ILDs and densities of all three layers, so I’ve asked for more information.

4

Hi slobjones/Bob.

It looks like Arizona Pr. already covered very well your concerns about ILD differences…you are well looked after even though you said in our email communication that your post ended up in the wrong forum (Thanks Ken :slight_smile: ).As you know we had some issues here with moving posts between different forum categories since we changed the Forum template. (Test site works now … so we’ll see if your post can be moved without the same issues on the live site.)

Re your notes on different systems that you’ve tested …Talalay feels different than Dunlop (same ILD) and even more different than memory foam or poly-foam product. While you took a different route it’s nice that you’ve pinpointed an important aspect of ILD differences between different material types that you arrived at with a trial and error approach.
Generally speaking, ILD is a comfort spec and isn’t that important to know (except as an indicator of firmness/softness, that you can use to approximate the feel when you buy online), which may be different when you are testing a mattress because with careful and objective testing your body will tell you much more about whether a mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) than comfort specs for all the reasons Ken already mentioned. A “dry” online mattress purchase is an educated guess and this is why it is so important that to reach out to a knowledgeable retailer or manufacturer, (which I am pleased to see you did).

ILD and mattress firmness choices in post #6 hereILD is also measured differently between polyfoam and latex and Dunlop and Talalay are also not “equivalent” in the same ILD (see ) so testing mattresses with a different design or layering may not be applicable to your experience with a different mattress other than as a very general indicator that you prefer soft, medium, or firmer mattresses. Re the comfort/support balance on a specific mattress, I’d keep in mind that every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress “as a whole” so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be fairly unlikely) then there really isn’t a reliable way to assess how one mattress will feel and perform vs another one in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place). An experienced manufacturer or retailer would be the best approximate a mattress feel based on all the specs and your personal needs and preferences you may provide.

Thanks for your email yesterday and appreciative words. Congrats on your new mattress purchase! :lol:
Hopefully, this is the final try in a long series of trial and error mattresses purchases.

Good luck and I look forward to any updates you might have once you have a chance to sleep on it for a while.
Will be moving the post shortly :wink:
Phoenix

1 Like
5

Thanks again to Ken at Arizona Premium and Phoenix for all the helpful information on mattress materials.

As you indicate, I’ve found the only true test is to actually spend time on the mattress. While this is not an optimal way to shop, for customer or vendor, I’ve placed the mattresses that didn’t work out with local veterans groups.

That said, I dived back into research, reducing the candidates to GhostBed, the new Luma Mattress foam + Latex 10" and Bear Mattress, and went with Bear. The mattress is on its way.

6

Hi slobjones/Bob.

You are welcome! :slight_smile:
Keep us posted!

Phoenix

7

Hey SlobJones / Bob

Thanks for giving GhostBed a chance for consideration. I’m sorry if we missed our chance to help answer your question.

Since this post is a couple months old. Wondering if your ready to hibernate for the winter on your bear mattress.

Glad you came to TMU to help navigate your choices to a good night sleep

Brian