Update and further advice needed and appreciated.

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
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Hi Phoenix,

I posted originally on 31 Dec 2011. see original post "Help-Need new mattress This is an update.

In early January, I went to the Parklane store in Portland Oregon and tried out the new redesigned “Brentwood”. (see original post) In the store it felt soft enough and after I laid on it 20 min on my side and back (my sleeping positions) it felt good. The construction was now individual pocket coils in 15.5 gauge, with 1 inch of HD foam in 1.8lb and 1inch Talalay latex 19 ILD by Latex International, in a HD foam support base. The total comfort layers are 2 inches with the latex layer right under the quilted Bamboo fabric top.

At the same time I tried out the all latex “Rogue” which is 6" 28ILD Talalay core topped with 3 inches of 19ILD Talalay covered with an organic cotton quilt top. They felt very similar, but the sales rep felt that the Brentwood was better choice for pressure point pain relief.

The sales rep also informed me that they now offered a 90 day comfort guarantee and, if I purchased the mattress protector, I could exchange it it didn’t work for me. So… here is my dilema.

((I paid attention to my sleeping positions and arrived at these stats: Fall asleep on my side, wake up often on my back, so I must be a combo sleeper. 5’6" tall, 150 pounds. Have chronic headaches, Rheumatoid Arthritis and Osteoarthritis, sometimes lower back pain (muscle spasms). I’m in my mid 50‘s. Sleep with pillow between knees))

In early January I ordered the Brentwood in a full size. It was delivered excellently on January 9th, made to order. I moved my old firm Caress Maxipedic to the spare bedroom.

It felt soft enough, but didn’t look quite like the one I saw in the showroom, even thought that was supposed to be the new redesigned Brentwood model. The customer service rep said even though mine had a different looking cover, mine does have a bamboo cover on top. I have been sleeping on it since then. Something isn’t quite right with the way it feels. When I get in bed at night, on my side, it feels soft enough under my butt/hips, but not so much under my shoulders. I seem to sink more under my butt than my shoulders. When I wake in the morning, it feels almost like it is a firmer mattress than it is classified. It is so hard to pinpoint the problem. It is comfortable, but it’s not. The pain in my shoulders is still there, but I haven’t woken up with any lower back pain yet.

Then I had a wake-up-call…After two weeks of sleeping on it, I must have lifted something wrong and got a very painful muscle spasm in my lower back. The first night I tried to sleep in the Brentwood, I immediately had to get out of it! Couldn’t lay on it at all, my back was just screaming. Way too soft and bouncy. I had to hastily retreat to the spare bedroom to the old firm Caress with it’s 1.5" memory foam topper. Though it was hard to sleep there too because of the pain, it was far better than the Brentwood! After a week and a half of treatment, sleeping on the old Caress firm, I went back to the Brentwood without any further aggravation to my lower back. But there is still something not quite right.

I decided to go to a local store that carries Savvy Rest to try out what arrangement in latex felt better. I know their prices are way above my budget, but at least I can gather more information. The salesman was very helpful and after asking me the routine questions he suggested a few beds. The first one was their most popular model (can’t remember the name), but it was too firm for me. The next one I tied was the “Lago” OMI which was 6" Talalay firm core (he didn’t know the ILD) with a 3" Talalay soft topper (also no ILD number). He said all their Talalay was Latex International and their Dunlop was Coco. This one felt better to me than the first one, but was a tad on the firmish side. He said that my alignment was good on the Lago. He then put me on a softer one, (again don’t remember the name), but I could tell this was too soft for good alignment.

The third one he had me try was a configuration he put together for me. It was a “Savvy Rest” with 3" firm Dunlop core on the bottom, followed by a 3" medium Talalay middle, and topped off with a 3" Talalay soft. Again unknown ILDs. He said my alignment was good on this one also. I felt the best on this one. I laid on it for at least 20 minutes in side and back positions. It felt softer than the Lago and more comfortable. He then gave me the prices for a full size in both the Lago and the Savvy Rest. $2,850 for the “Savvy Rest” and $3,795 for the “Lago”. Both way over my budget!
But at least I got an idea what seems to be comfortable for me.

My question is: do you feel that the Parklane “Rogue” would give me the same feel and back support of the Savvy Rest? My concern is; will the 6" medium 28ILD Talalay core be enough support for my lower back and still giving me the 3" soft Talalay 19 ILD that my shoulders need? The Rogue is listed as a medium bed for combo sleeping. The price is so much more affordable and I can make the switch in my 90 day comfort test with Parklane.

My other option is that when I find my main bed, I can replace the old Caress with another bed that will be firmer for those times when my lower back gets tweeked out. I’m thinking maybe a Parklane “Crestwood” or “Arcadia”. Both have Offset coils, dual tempered 14 gauge steel. The Crestwood is topped with 3" 19ILD Talaley, Bamboo cover and the Arcadia with 2" 19 ILD Talalay and 1" Coolsleep memory foam topped with knit designer cover. Both are considered medium beds for combo sleepers.

I plan to go back to Parklane this weekend to try out the Rogue again, for a longer period, and also try the Crestwood and Arcadia.

I will post again after I do my trials. Thank you so much for all the valuable information in this forum Phoenix and all your patience!

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! :slight_smile: DormiBene

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Sorry the link didn’t come up. Will try posting my original link again. I’m not super computer savvy :unsure:

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Parklane has some new GEL mattresses coming out at the end of February, one of which is GEL on top of coils. Got that info direct from Parklane, including the spelling of “GEL” FWIW. Perhaps you might want to wait a couple weeks and see if there’s anything ou might like.

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Hi DormiBene,

The Brentwood has lower gauge coils and is classified as “soft” which would typically be a more “side sleeper” mattress rather than a mattress that would work better for a combo sleeper. While it may work very well for side sleeping pressure relief … on your back it may not offer enough support for you and your hips/pelvis may be sinking in a little too far which is what I suspect may be happening.

The Rogue has 3" of 19 ILD latex over 6" of 28 ILD latex which in the world of latex would be considered to be soft as well but latex is also more resilient/suportive than polyfoam and soft in latex is usually a little firmer than the very soft polyfoam that people are more used to in the top of a mattress so even softer latex is often listed as medium.

For example the typical soft talalay latex that is sold by Savvy Rest is about 22 and in other places the “standard” soft talalay latex is 24 ILD … both of which are a little firmer than the 19 ILD used by Parklane. This can be confusing sometimes because different outlets use “soft” in different ways. Latex international calls 24 ILD soft, 19 ILD plush and 14 ILD ultra plush. The reason that even “soft” talalay is good for combination sleeping is that it is much more supportive than other soft foams. The Talalay support layer they use in the Rogue is also softer than many other support foams used (28 is usually the bottom end of firmness used for support foams) but because it gets firmer faster than other foams and because you are not very heavy … this may also give you better support than the innerspring you are now using. It seems to me that the Rogue may be a better choice for combo sleeping and if it feels as soft to you as the Brentwood on your side for pressure relief it would probably give you better alignment than the Brentwood which uses softer foams and a soft innerspring.

The Whistler is almost identical to the Rogue and I would consider this one as well to see if the subtle differences between the materials makes a difference for you. While they are both more than the Brentwood, they are also all latex and very good value.

The Lago in it’s usual configuration has 3.5" of sculpted talalay with an ILD of 25 - 29 but the sculpting would make it act softer than this. The support is firm latex in the upper 30’s (probably N5 which is @ 36 - 40 ILD).

The Savvy Rest “soft” talalay would probably be N2 (20 - 24 ILD) over “medium” (30 - 34) over firm Dunlop.

The Rogue and the Whistler would be a little softer in both the upper layers and in the support layers than either of these (19 on top and 28 underneath). Another option is the McKenzie which is a similar configuration 3" over 6" of latex but uses Dunlop latex which tends to be a little firmer and a little less “lively”. It gets firmer faster than Talalay as you sink into it so would also tend to be a little more supportive for the heavier parts of your body.

Any of the 3 “all latex” mattresses would likely be a better choice for combination sleeping and would probably give you similar pressure relief to the Brentwood but better support although the 28 ILD may also be a bit on the soft side with a 3" comfort layer. I would spend a little time to test them for pressure relief but I would focus more on testing for support with these options. For testing support … I would try to completely relax on your back and get a sense of whether your muscles can “release” and “let go” of any tension on your back or if you feel a tendency to keep them a little bit tense to hold your hips up with your muscles rather than letting the support of the mattress work instead of your muscles. Try to sense any hint of tension that could lead to pain.

The Crestwood and the Arcadia as you mention both have a firmer innerspring than the brentwood which I believe would also be more suitable for you than the softer innerspring in the Brentwood … even for “normal” sleeping. The difference is that the Arcadia has an inch of memory foam in the comfort mix which would have a little different feel and may allow your shoulders to sink in a bit more. Again … these would make good choices if the pressure relief was good (which is likely to be the case in both) and the support it gave you would certainly be firmer than the Brentwood and probably firmer than the all latex models as well.

So the goal … and they would likely help you with this if you shared with them the “symptoms” you have experienced and described here … is to find the choice with good side sleeping pressure relief that uses the thinnest layers of latex foam to achieve this (putting you closer to the support layers) and then to use a firmer support layer under this than the Brentwood. It seems that 3" of Talalay (or 2" plus some memory foam) would work well for this (going thinner may lead to pressure issues on your shoulder) and then choosing the support layer that allowed you to most completely relax on your back with the absolutely the least amount of tension whether this was the 28 ILD talalay in the Rogue and the Whistler, the medium Dunlop in the McKenzie, or the offset coils in the Crestwood and Arcadia.

If you are attracted to the idea of testing the gel foam it may also be worth waiting for this but my opinion is that because latex is a more supportive and “responsive” foam even in it’s softer versions that it may be a better option with your combined need for pressure relief and a tendency to “tweak” your back and the need for the best possible alignment.

Phoenix