Thanks so much making this clear. I have been spending a lot of time researching amd am now narrowing down to the Luma All Latex Slumber System and the Oso Sleep by Reverie. Both look good but the Luma is twice as expensive as the OSO. Iâm guessing that the price difference is because the OSO uses only 1-1/2 inch of latex and the rest is foam. Do you think that the comfort would be similar?
Hi ratchette,
The OSO is mostly polyfoam (6" polyfoam core with 1.5" polyfoam on top - only 1.5" latex, also with a small area under the shoulder with DreamCells), where the Luma All-Latex Slumber System uses a total of 11" of latex (6" Dunlop core with 2" and 3" of Talalay above), so there certainly would be an expected difference in price, as latex is generally the most expensive foam to produce, and the Luma has much more of it.
Even with taking the specialized DreamCell section out of the equation, youâd expect there to be a quite different comfort between these two products because of the dissimilar materials used.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
Thought I would let you know that I finally finished my DIY mattress project. Success! Iâm very happy with my creation! Ken let me return the 6 inch Radium core to mattresses.net and swap it out for two, 3 inch toppers at 44 ILD each. Ken said that ILD is lowered a bit when a 6 inch core is split into two halves, even with Talalay. He related that his latex manufacturers have confirmed this and recommend going up in ILD to compensate for it. My two-part 44 ILD core probably âtranslatesâ into 40 ILD.
Itâs firm and supportive, much more than the W8 Radium latex core, but also has just the right amount of give without being too bouncy or squishy. By the way, it feels far better than the Latex Bliss beds I tried out.
Here are the specs for my Queen bedâ
Base core: two, 3 inch Talalay Global toppers, 44 ILD each. (Purchased from Ken at mattresses.net)
Comfort Transition layers: two, 2 inch Latexco latex wavy toppers at 24 ILD each. Wavy side faces up for each piece. This may be a Dunlop latex derivative, as the feel is more cushy than bouncy. (Also purchased from Ken)
Comfort Top layer: a 2 inch (approximately) convoluted, zoned Energex foam topper. (Purchased from Purasleep.com)
Purasleep gave me the Amazon price, as their topper is also featured there, but I preferred to buy it directly from Purasleep. I was surprised at how expensive Energex foam is overall, and itâs hard to find it as a DIY component, but this particular topper is a steal. Purasleep also sells solid 2 and 3 inch Energex toppers, but I wanted the zoned design. Itâs surprisingly lightweight but still adds a unique feel and plushness to the bed, and all this from just 2 inches of convoluted foam!
I have my four latex layers stacked inside a heavy duty, stretchy Protect A Bed encasement. Now, the Energex topper is instead tucked inside an old cotton featherbed cover I had on hand and lays on top of the encasement. Topping off this configuration is the final layer of protection in the form of a simple mattress cover for extra waterproofing, etc.
I do have to give a shout-out to Ken Hightower at mattresses.net. He walks on water, as far as Iâm concerned. His swap-out largesse with the Radium core situation and overall latex product and industry knowledge set him apart from the others. I would not buy latex products from anyone else.
So there you have it!
Thanks for all your help.
Hi Phoenix,
I want to add one last comfort layer to my DIY mattress, and Iâve settled on memory foam.
So, Iâm trying to decide between 3 inches of Aerus Plus (5lb density) memory foam or the Confourm brand Iâve been researching (same density). The Confourm memory foam supposedly isnât very sensitive to room temperature at large, which is a quality Iâm looking for. It is CertiPUR foam, but do you know who manufactures it?
Also, Iâve asked the folks at Sleep Warehouse about the Aerus Plus âcold roomâ qualities but couldnât get a clear answer. Can you address the temperature sensitivity of Aerus Plus? Iâm now leaning in the direction of Confourm at The Comfort Outlet, on the basis of its non-temperature sensitive quality, assuming this advertised characteristic is true. Do you still recommend TCO as an online retailer? I tend to keep my room cool to cold at night for sleeping and use a down comforter for warmth. Iâm trying to get an accurate picture of both brandsâ characteristics before making my decision.
Thanks!
Hi matressjunkie.
Aerus Plus by FXI is one of the newer generation memory foams with more of an open cell structure and itâs formulated to be more breathable, better at heat management and more durable than previous memory foam versions, you can read more about Aerus on FXI site here. Many of the memory foam producers in the industry are currently headed in this direction, along with producing of certain polyurethane foams that are of higher density very plush and that have some of the pressure relieving characteristics of memory foam with very little if any of the temperature-sensitive or the changes in viscosity characteristic to Memory Foams
Here is a FQA/SpeckSheet for Confourm Memory Foam from 2010 showing it as a Back Support Systems Brand. I havenât heard much of Confourm and from the past research Iâve done it seems that Back Support Systems (based somewhere in an apartment complex in Las Vegas) provide toppers with surface channels for better ventilation and advertise the Confourm as the only memory foam that is not temperature sensitive, which I found hard to believe given the viscous nature of memory foam. On Crystal Star site which is another source of âconfourmâ memory foam the product is described as "The advanced technology material is known as 100% Open Cell Visco-Elastic Poly-urethane Foam or Confourm⢠â'Memory Foamâ for short. "
magicpedic.com/ is the same as backsupportsystems.myshopify.com/password which is their wholesale site and there are also other sources of âConfourmâ memory foam as well including âŚ
http://www.sleepaidfactory.com/catagory/catagory_top_surf.html
This is the second time I came across The Comfort Outlet but they are not a retailer recommended by The Mattress Underground. You can peruse through our Trusted Members listing but as far as I know none of our members carry the Confourm memory foam that you are mentioning.
I hope this information helps with the final touch for long labored DIY mattress.
I am certainly looking forward to finding out how this will be working for you.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
Thanks so much for responding! About memory foamâs temperature sensitivity. My overriding concern is memory foamâs performance in my chilly house. I keep my house cool to cold (around 60 degrees), especially at night, (love my down comforter) pretty much year round so am concerned about the topper staying too firm in response to that.
Good quality memory foam usually costs as much as latex, if not more, so I donât want to make a mistake here if I can help it. I ended up gifting a 5 lb Brooklyn Bedding mem foam topper last year to a friend, because it wasnât very responsive overall when used as the uppermost layer on the bed and felt too hard and somewhat cool to the touch when used this way. It felt better under something else, but I wanted to use it on the top. I figured it was the coldish room deal going on, not the density itself. However, Iâve also used a 3lb density mem foam topper years back from a different company that was super comfy for the time it held up, which was only about a year. I would not purchase from that company again, however; it was FoamFactory aka FoamByMail. It was never hard and never felt cool or cold to the touch as did the BB product. Also, I donât experience the heat buildup with memory foam thatâs a common complaint.
Confourm advertised that its mem foam stayed soft regardless of cold or hot surroundings. That was my initial attraction to it, but Iâll move on from it. Do you know of any other memory foam âbrandsâ that are CertiPUR that offer this characteristicâŚthat respond to body heat, of course, but not so much to the ambient temperature in a room? I would consider a 4 lb density as well as the 5 lb. Again, thank you!
mattressjunkie:
I wanted to post a little information for you about temperature and visco-elastic material that I think you may find interesting.
There is a really good paper here about this and cell structure in memory foam and some of the reasons for the recovery rate, feel, and temperature sensitivity. What youâre talking about (mostly) is the glass transition temperature of the foam. Manufacturers try to shoot for a range around room temperature, but some shoot for something a bit higher and some for something a bit lower. As a simplified example, if the glass transition temperature of the visco elastic foam is 70 degrees (Iâm using âexactâ numbers here for ease of explanation), above 70 degrees the foam would behave more like a typical polyurethane foam with a softer feel. Beneath this temperature, the foam will feel harder. Even if a visco-elastic foam feels hard at room temperature, it will soften with the application of your body heat and mass. Glass transition temperatures are something that are not normally made public by visco-elastic foam manufacturers.
I hope that information is useful (and interesting) to you.
Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator
Beducation / Mattress To Go
Hi Jeff,
Thank you so much for that information! It has helped me make a decision about the memory foam topper I plan to purchase now. When you brought up the glass transition temperature as being key to the firmness/softness factor of the foam in response to ambient temperature, I remembered what I had read on the Elite Foam website and revisited the site to refresh my memory. Elite (makers of Energex) advertises that their âCoolFlowâ polymer design in all of their visco foams lends itself to a âbroad glass transition rangeâ. So, this issue is addressed directly. Purasleep, an eCommerce retailer for Elite Foam, has a wide range of Elite memory foam toppers. Iâll talk to Purasleep and make my choice among their topper offerings. Their brand is sold on Amazon, and while I wouldnât purchase a topper or mattress from Amazon, I will buy directly from Purasleep. Iâll report backâŚ
matressjunkie:
I am glad the article I provided made sense to you ⌠your plan sounds good. Keep us posted.
Good luck!
Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator
Beducation / Mattress To Go
matressjunkie;
I am glad that the article I provided made sense to you ⌠your plan sounds good 
Good luck and keep us posted.
Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator
Beducation / Mattress To Go
Hi All,
I finally landed on my perfect DIY mattress configuration. THE ONE! Finally!
Here are the component specs:
First (Top) Layer: Purasleep CertiPUR EROS Reversible Topper (Energex Foam) Itâs convoluted, so the cutout designs make it hard to measure true height, but I put it at 2 inches. Maybe a bit less. The design side faces up. I received the Amazon price when I purchased directly from Purasleep.
Second Layer: Purasleep CertiPUR 3 inch Gel Enhanced Memory Foam Topper. Think the density is 3 or 3.5 LB but not sure. I know a 4 or 5 LB memory foam is always recommended, but I really like this company, its transparency, and great customer service. The Purasleep staff gave me a steep discount to match its Amazon price.
Third Layer: Latexco latex Wavy 2 inch topper 24 ILD. Bought from Arizona Premium Mattress Company. Ken Hightower was so helpful and great to work with throughout the process.
Fourth Layer: Talalay Global Latex 3 inch topper, 36 ILD. Bought from Brooklyn Beddingâs topper company, mattresstopper.com
Bottom Layer: Talalay Gobal Latex 3 inch topper, 44 ILD. Bought from Arizona Premium Mattress Company.
I have all the layers encased in a Protect-A-Bed, six sided, waterproof, stretchy encasement (Oeko Tex certified) and added a waterproof mattress pad over the encasement for good measure,
Instead of using a fitted sheet (hard to find one deep enough to fit my creation), I bought a thin, Polartec blanket and have it wrapped neatly around and tucked under the mattress. Polartec material breathes, and it stays put and actually looks quite nice.
Mattress pad and Polartec are Oeko Tex certified, as well. I may or may not buy a mattress cover in the future. My latex layers are well-covered and protected from the elements.
Let me say that this DIY creation is a 60X80 bit of heaven! I really canât describe just how great my mattress feels. I like having the super firm latex core with its mixed ILDs for deep support. I use the 2 inch latex Wavy topper as a transition between the hard core and the plush memory foam.
The convoluted Energex topper over the memory foam adds to the cradle effect and enhances the plush sensation of the memory foam.
Most important of all, my sleep is deep and satisfying and free of back pain.
This DIY project was both fun and frustrating. There were a few component pieces I bought that didnât work out, so Iâm going to use them in a guest bed project in the future. DIY can be a lot of work but is certainly worth it in the long run when you end up with a bed thatâs a perfect fit!
Thank you, Jeff and Phoenix, for all your assistance.
Hi matressjunkie.
Youâre certainly welcome!
Congratulations on your long labored and creative DIY! :cheer:
This is very exciting, and thank you for sharing the details of your final mattress with us. Some of our visitors perusing this thread might find it very useful. I am impressed with the arrangement of your â60X80 bit of heavenâ and with how you worked with the componentry puzzle to find just the âsweet spotâ for you. Not an easy feat! I am sure that you had your moments of frustration, but it looks like it was more than worth it. Happy to hear your back pain is gone too.
Great to see our team of experts at work⌠Thank you Jeff (Mattress to Go) andKen (Arizona Premium)! I am glad you reached out to them as they both are extremely knowledgeable and have many years of experience behind their advice.
We look forward to any updates you might have once you had a chance to sleep upon your DIY a little longer.
Phoenix (& The Mattress Underground team)
Hi Phoenix & Jeff,
âŚjust want to let you know that my DIY mattress creation remains a keeper. Iâm simply blown away by the improved quality of my sleep, as well as how wonderful this homemade bed feels. I somehow hit upon the perfect balance of comfort and support. The only negative here is that I donât like to get out of bed, because it just feels so great, but alas, life must also be lived outside the bedroom! LOL
Wow, that is great news! Congratulations!
Apologies for hijacking this old thread, I am very new to my journey in the world of Latex mattresses (just joined TMU and this is my first post) and this thread had a lot of the same questions that I have about the DIY route. I could not figure out how to start a new thread, please feel free to move this to itâs own post if necessary.
Hello,
A bit of backgroundâŚI am 5â9, 220 lbs (sleep side & stomach mostly), my wife is 5â2, 145lbs (side/back sleeper). We are badly in need of a new mattress and our Chiropractor suggested the latex route. We were in a bad car accident a few years ago and have lingering back and hip pain as a result. If my wife lays on her side for more than 5 min, the entire side of her body goes numb.
We found a local store that carries Latex and so far this seems to be our ideal mattress type. My wife was actually able to lay on her side for the first time without the numbness! Right now the biggest obstacles we are finding is 1) the cost and 2) finding a mattress that we both like. Iâm almost ready to go the split King route but we have small kids that LOVE to crawl into bed with us at night and Iâm afraid they will fall in the split!
We really like the Pure Talalay Bliss mattresses. Her favorite was the Nature with the PTB Firm 3" topper. I liked this as well, but I usually prefer a firmer mattress. The Nature just felt too âsquishyâ for me. I actually liked the PTB Pamper a little better, and also liked a few of the dunlop beds too.
1st QuestionâŚIf I was going to try and re-create the Nature bed as a DIY, what would be the closest IDL stack to achieve this? As mentioned in this post it appears that the Nature is a 6 inch core at 36ILD, a 2 inch middle layer at 28ILD, and a 2 inch top comfort layer at 21ILD, and I read somewhere else that the Firm topper is a 32 IDL. Is this correct? I have been looking at Arizona Premium Mattresses/mattresses.net and the closest match I can find is 2 inch 19/ 2 inch 28/ 3 inch 36/ 3 inch 36. Would this be an approximate recreation? I would assume since the top layer is 19 instead of 21 it would be ever so slightly softer, but perhaps not too noticeable once we add a 32 topper?
2nd Question - Does anyone know the IDL makeup of the Pamper mattress, and a suggestion if I wanted to recreate a similar support & comfort stack but at the same 10" height as the Nature bed?
Thanks, I look forward to learning all about this and either building or buying the perfect mattress for our needs!
Hi NewToLatexInFL
Welcome to our Mattress Forum!
I am sorry to hear about your car accident and the injuries it caused. Hopefully, as time goes theyâll heal and diminish.
A split king has significant benefits especially if the mattress you are considering has side by side layering construction with a continuous/single top comfort layer or/and has a suitable quilted cover or other material above the split in which case you or the children will most likely not feel the âsplitâ itself. The transition from one firmness level to the other (which is the reason for the split layering) can be felt more with a larger firmness differential between the sides. You can read a bit more about split mattresses in post #2 here and also in this recent post #13 here which lists some manufacturers that specialize in split systems. Overall ⌠a side to side split can have significant benefits for some couples that have different needs and preferences because each side of the mattress can have a different design and firmness level but with all things âmattressesâ it also has a tradeoff and each person may choose what is best for them in different ways and with different preferences.
I am not very sure why youâd want to add a 32 ILD topper but there is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can âmatchâ or âapproximateâ another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress âas a wholeâ so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be fairly unlikely) then there really isnât a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of âcomfortâ, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place). This being said youâd be on the right track by seeking guidance from an experienced manufacturer or retailer, who would be the ones to best approximate a mattress feel based on all the specs and your personal needs and preferences you may provide.
I am glad you started by doing some local testing as this is the best way to determine suitability.
Post #13 mentioned above lists some of the manufacturing members (including Arizona Premium) of our site that would be able to help you configure something similar. Manufacturers themselves are the best resource when it comes to matching especially for known brands such as PTB. âReplicatingâ a mattress component by component in view of a DIY mattress based only on âspecsâ without the specific guidance of a manufacturer/retailer that is familiar with your reference mattress and materials is unreliable because in most cases: Consumers would tend to rely only on the ILD of the layers or other more basic specs which by themselves can be very misleading and inaccurate because of any design specific properties, response, or factors that can make a significant difference in how a mattress feels and performs.
The PTB Pamper is an 8" mattress (2" 21 ILD Active fusion Talalay + 6"40 ILD Talalay support core) the Nature would be softer than the Pamper because of the softer 2" 28 ILD transition layer and the softer 36 ILD support core , but again every layer and component in a mattress will affect the fell and performance of the overall mattress and youâd do best to rely on the guidance of the manufacturer themselves who would have the knowledge or experience to be able to âtranslateâ how the many seemingly small differences between two mattresses may either accumulate or offset each other in real life.
Good luck in your search. If youâre successful in finding something that you like, please let us know.
Phoenix
Thanks Phoenix! I am going to try laying on a few more mattresses in local stores this week to get a better understanding of what feels good to me and then work with one of your experts to help design a suitable mattress.
I did have a follow up question to your post.
May I ask why this seemed strange to you? The PTB toppers come in 2 levels (Soft & Firm according to manufacturer) which I believe I saw somewhere on this site that the Soft was a 14-17 IDL and the Firm was around a 32. When I was in the local store, the sales person there recommended the firm topper over the Nature bed to firm it up a bit since it felt soft to me and my wife loves the extra cradling with the topper too.
Hi NewToLatexInFL.
I am guessing that you came across my comments in this post #6 here where we discuss a mattress/topper combo using a 2" or 3" PTB topper.
What the salesperson recommends is what I call a dominating layer arrangement, which will have a crisper and on the mattress feel which may or may not be achieving the âextra cradlingâ effect that your wife loves. A mattress is always a balancing act between the need to âallowâ the lighter parts of the body (such as the shoulders and upper body) to sink in enough into the upper layers (for pressure relief) and âstopâ the heavier parts of the body (primarily the hips/pelvis) from sinking down too far into the deeper layers so that your spine is in good alignment.
Generally speaking, when you use a topper over a mattress two things will happen. The first is it will compress and in combination with the layers below it will take on the shape of your body profile. Softer toppers will compress more than firmer toppers. This âcradleâ formed by the upper layers re-distributes weight away from the pressure points of the body. The second is it will âbendâ into any softer foam below it. This âbendingâ will happen more if the topper is firmer than the layers below it (what I call a dominating layer) because the lower layers will compress more than the upper layers and the topper will âbendâ into the compression (or even any dips or soft spots) of the foam below it. This means that the surface of the mattress will be slightly less conforming and feel firmer (less pressure relieving) and you will have a more âon the mattressâ feel than if you were sinking into a softer topper even though the next layer down is still compressing. Many people who are taller and slimmer will prefer a firmer feel like this because they are often be âsprawlersâ and prefer a more on the mattress feel with more freedom of movement.
The downside to this arrangement is that the recessed gaps are filled in a little bit less than if the topper was softer and the lighter parts of the body (such as the shoulders) may not sink in as effectively for both upper body alignment and pressure relief. This being said Iâd suggest that you and your wife try this arrangement in the shop and see how it works out for you.
I look forward to hearing about the results of your weekâs testing.
Phoenix
Hello,
I had a question about a new pillow I bought if anyone has any suggestions. I have a solid Dunlop pillow that turned out being too high and props my head up too much. Other than scrapping the pillow entirely and starting over with a more adjustable one, is there any way to get this pillow to be less supportive? It was a bit of a gamble since there was no height or firmness advertised when I bought it. I just assumed it would be an average pillow that may work for a side sleeper. Maybe my best bet is steering clear of formed pillows, as it seems like a bit of a lottery. Thanks.
Hello Gardenguy,
There is little you can do to a molded latex pillow that will make it firmer or softer. You pretty much have what you purchased. Formed pillows are a âbit of a lotteryâ as you describe it. Purchasing a pillow with a return/refund policy is key. The one thing we want to point out is that there is a large difference between a Dunlop latex pillow and a Talalay latex pillow. Talalay will be more adaptive to your neck/head/sleeping position. Dunlop is molded into a form mold that will be what it is and not adapt. The lack of transparency re. height and firmness when you purchased it was a âsignalâ that you were getting a commodity item. You will likely need to chalk this up in the âlesson learnedâ category.
Sensei