For sure, if wool turns out to be a viable consideration, that would open up a lot more quality (and value) choices.
But thanks for the attention.
Just a little update. Wife okayed wool. And we were gonna check out innerspring in addition to / instead of latex. So this weekend:
We went to Scott Jordon to take a look around. Right off the bat, innerspring got nixed. Too bouncy. Scott Jordon has Berkeley Ergonomics whose all latex featured Talalay (I believe two layers). She was okay with it, but I suggested we check more mattresses.
Then we went to RoomandBoard (which wasn’t a great shopping experience). We basically just left since there was only twin size to sample, and they only had one all latex. But we did confirm that innerspring was no go.
Then we stopped by Keetsa (hey, they all are around the same area, why not). My wife originally was considering something there, I don’t know why since they mainly have memory foam - and the “toxins” and “chemicals” she was trying to avoid would be more of a concern with memory foam. Anyway, their one all latex mattress didn’t impress.
Next and last, we went to Clean Bedroom. They feature Dunlop, and wife preferred that more than Talalay. She actually doesn’t like the bouncy-ness, so that’s why she didn’t like innerspring. Anyway, we left without getting anything. It was too much to take in at once since Clean Bedroom had many more options. We most liked OrganicPedic Duo or Oyasumi II. And definitely on the firm side.
(Not surprising, at Scott Jordon, they said Talalay was the best latex, and at Clean Bedroom Dunlop was the best.)
But it was a good experience overall. Hopefully we can reach some decision soon.
Hi blackriderrx,
Thanks for the update 
Just for the sake of clarity … Keetsa doesn’t have an all latex mattress. If you mean the Keetsa Latex Mattress … you can see in the image here that it has 1.5" of latex on top of a pocket coil innerspring (which may be why you weren’t impressed).
Phoenix
There is a difference among 100% natural Talalay, 100% natural Dunlop, and organic Dunlop?
When someone said they use organic latex, is there a particular certification or proof that would be helpful?
I’m looking through the organic queen Dunlop mattresses first to get a sense of the cost. Hoping it’ll be less than $1,500 or so. But when I look through a lot of sites, I get terminology fatigued/confused.
Plus, it’s my understanding that only Dunlop is organic. Talalay doesn’t permit organic. Correct?
And many of the mattress that say organic refer only to the cotton and wool, not necessarily the latex.
Hi blackriderx,
Yes … there is more about the different types and blends of latex (including organic Dunlop) in post #6 here.
Yes this is also common in the industry. There is also more about organic certifications in post #2 here.
The only organic certification for latex is GOLS (Global Organic Latex Standard).
Your budget is on the low side if you are looking at either organic Dunlop or 100% natural Talalay unless you are considering a relatively thin mattress with less latex inside it.
Phoenix
Thus far, we narrowed the search to a few choices:
Cozy Pure - 6+3 layers
Sleeping Organic - 3+3+3 layers
Sleep EZ - 3+3+3 layers
Brooklyn Bedding - 6+3 layers
and have tested and am considering from Clean Bedroom
Oyasumi II - 2+4+2 layers
OrganicPedic Duo - 3+3+3 layers
All of these are exclusively or have all Dunlop options. (I haven’t tested Dunlop core with Talalay Comfort, but wife is ok with all Dunlop so that’s what I’m going with).
I haven’t tried a 6+3 layer mattress, anyone can share what are the main difference (aside from greater customization) in feel?
We are leaning (due to my preference for firmer mattress) for the 6+3 - it’ll be a 6 firm + 3 medium layer. Or for 3+3+3, 3 firm + 3 medium + 3 medium layers. Again, I’m around 150, back sleeper. My wife is around 115, back and sometimes side sleeper.
We are still considering the Oyasumi II because wife was okay with it, but I found it not thick enough. When I sat on it, it felt too thin. Was it just too firm, or perhaps all in my head?
I also believe that Cozy Pure is the only one of the choices that have “zone” type layer. Is it very significant? The rest are just regular layers of latex, I believe.
Hi blackriderx,
You are certainly looking at some high quality options
The specific difference would depend entirely on how the the 6" + 3" layers compared to the other options you are considering (assuming they are all 100% natural Dunlop) in terms of firmness, layer thickness, the order of the layers, and the type of cover they used. There would be very little difference between two 3" layers and a single 6" layer that used the same type and blend of latex where both of the 3" layers were the same firmness as the single 6" core and had the same materials above and below them and a very similar cover and quilting (see post #2 here) but once you start changing the thickness or firmness of the layers, the mattress cover, or the design of the mattress then there would be a more obvious difference between two different mattresses with different designs or components. The only way to know whether any specific difference would be better or worse for you in terms of PPP would be your own testing or sleeping experience.
You can see some comments about zoned layers in this article and in post #11 here and post #2 here. If the zoning is a good match for you then it can certainly make “some” difference in terms of PPP depending on the specifics of the zoning.
When you are down to finalists that are all choices between “good and good” and there are no weak links in any of them (which there aren’t) and no clear winners between them … then post #2 here may be helpful when it comes time to make your final choice based on all the objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.
Phoenix
The combination that we tried that was (OMI - organicpedic duo) 3 firm, 3 medium, and 3 medium. That was closest to getting to the firmness level that I/we prefer. We tried 3 firm, 3 medium, and 3 soft, and that was too soft.
But I don’t know how to translate this through an online order.
Hi blackriderx,
You won’t need to “translate” it because one of the most important parts of an online purchase is a more detailed conversation with the retailer or manufacturer that you are dealing with so they can help “talk you through” the options they have that would have the best chance of success. If the retailer or manufacturer you are dealing with is familiar with the OMI (Organicpedic) Duo and has the same type and blend of latex available then they will be able to tell you which of their layering combinations would be the closest approximation even though it may not be an exact match because of any differences in the cover, exact firmness levels of each layer, or the sculpting of the latex. If they aren’t familiar with the Duo then the more information you can provide them the more you will help them to help you make the closest choice.
If they have a good exchange or return policy then you will be able to use your actual sleeping experience to decide on how close it is to your “target” and/or whether it is a good match for you in terms of PPP based on your actual sleeping experience.
Phoenix
In addition to getting a new mattress, we also need a new frame. I was thinking of getting an Ikea frame + Ikea slats. Specifically the Lonset slats. I believe the Lonset replaced the Sulton Luroy.
Are these slats okay? Cuz it’s flexible I heard that there might be potential for sagging.
Hi blackrider,
They would be fine in terms of supporting the mattress but they can change the feel and performance of your sleeping system in terms of PPP compared to a rigid non flexing foundation that is more common with latex mattresses because the support system will have some extra give under the mattress. How much you notice this or whether the effect is beneficial or detrimental to your sleeping experience will depend on the specifics of the person and of the mattress. You can see more of my thoughts about tension adjustable flexible slat systems in post #13 here and post #2 here and post #2 here.
Phoenix
Hmm… my wife wanted to get the Hurdal frame from Ikea (Products - IKEA). Agreeing with your suggestion that the flex slats might not be good (for 9" latex mattress), where would I shop for rigid slats.
From some online research, are these a slats option: purerest.com/Organic-Mattresses/Organic-Outer-Untreated-Wood-Foundation_3/Short-Tower_6? They don’t have center support rail or feet though. Assuming I get the Hurdal, I can buy the Ikea center support rail and use the slats on top of that?
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Are there others that are more affordable?
I prefer slats over foundation because there is a very good chance we’ll be moving (maybe twice) within the year.
Hi blackriderx,
You could buy 1 x 3" slats or 1" x 4" slats cut to the correct length for your bedframe and using good quality stiff wood (such as spruce, yellow pine, or fir … see here). Just make sure that you have enough so that the gap between the slats is 3" or less (less would be better). A google search on slat roll will bring up more sources for slats but just make sure that you confirm they are the right size.
Another good and inexpensive option is the slat conversion linked here (again make sure that it fits your bedframe).
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Yes these would also be fine (they have a 1.5" gap according to the description) but I would check with the manufacturer of your mattress about the Ikea bedframe because some manufacturers have a warranty that requires a center support beam with at least one supporting leg to the floor in queen size and two in king size.
Phoenix
Following discussion, we decided to get a bed frame from West Elm. This Vonnegut/Kraft Bed, which states middle support leg: http://www.westelm.com/products/vonnegut-kraft-bed-set-h359/?pkey=csale-furniture|4294960680&cm_src=sale-furniture||FN-Product%20Type-_-FN-Bed%20Set-_--_-
Doesn’t say the number (or width) of slats, but from other posts here, seems like West Elm bed slats are acceptable.
Hi blackriderx,
If you have confirmed that the slats are 3" or less apart then it should be fine for an all latex mattress.
It seems that some of the west elm slats are 4" apart (see here) which is a little more than ideal spacing but it also seems that some of them may be less than that (based on the picture here which has 16 slats) so I would check to confirm the distance between the slats in the bed you are ordering.
Phoenix
Unfortunately, there was a problem with the bed frame and it got cancelled. So now I’m in a bit of a pickle. I ordered the 10 Leaf from Sleeping Organic (went with S/M/F config) and it should be coming any day now. Except we don’t have a bed frame. Maybe you can help me go through some of the things I’m looking at.
This platform from World Market - worldmarket.com/product/austen+queen+bed.do?. It says that there should be 14 slats, and a metal rail with a support leg. I’m going to call to confirm about the slats, but is that in the okay range?
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I’m also considering Structures Malouf highrise - Amazon.com. Ours will be an all Dunlop mattress, but I don’t remember what issues you brought up with regards to this type of foundation/frame.
And … any place else to look? Ideally, it should have some storage space in the bottom, and not too difficult to disassemble and reassemble (we tend to move often). I would really like to get the frame ready for when the mattress arrives, we already got rid of the old frame and have our mattress on the floor. Thanks.
Hi blackriderx,
The foundation post here should be helpful and includes the guidelines I would suggest for a latex mattress and includes some sources for some good options as well.
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I’m not familiar with this platform bed so I would want to make sure that it had gaps between the slats that were 3" or less but it does have a center beam with one support leg to the floor so this part would be OK. If the slats were 1x3’s it would probably be close but just a little over but if you wanted to “make it work” you could add something like the bed rug here to even out the support underneath the mattress.
This would certainly be strong enough but you can see my thoughts about wire grid support surfaces in post #10 here.
Phoenix
Regarding the steel grid: It’s not that you hear of any particular latex mattress maker or customer warning against these types of foundations, correct? Your weariness (if that) is from abundance of caution.
I was going to place some layers of the full size flat sheets underneath (since we won’t be using those as much anymore). Or perhaps getting the coconut bed rug a little later on.
Hi blackriderx,
Part of my “abundance of caution” comes from conversations with a few manufacturers who have shared their experience with some of these types of foundations leaving impressions in the latex over longer periods of time.
Phoenix