Hi. I’m in search of a new queen mattress. My wife is … complicated … she wants as chemical free, non toxic, non off gass-y, and cruelty free as possible, organic if possible.
I just want the best mattress for value as possible.
We kinda decided that latex is probably the way to go. Problem is that there aren’t many mattress makers that are wool free. I sleep rather warm, so to me, wool seems like a good idea to moderate temperature. Is wool really that helpful?
Wife was interested in Essentia, but that seemed (from research here) like poor value and somewhat inaccurate misrepresentation.
I suggested Plushbed, at least it’s cheaper. Though that would be buying without a test run on the mattress.
Any suggestions? Another brand? Some place in NY? Opinions on Essentia or Plushbed or something else? Wool or not? I’m mostly a back sleeper, my wife is mostly back, but occasionally side too. Thanks in advance.
Just in case you haven’t read it yet … the first place I would start is the mattress shopping tutorial here which has the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choices.
More specific to your own particular needs and preferences … post #2 here and the posts it links to has more information about organic, natural, safe, and green materials that can help you differentiate between different terminology and help you decide on the materials that you are most comfortable having in your mattress so you can narrow your choices down to materials that fit your criteria.
There is more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here.
Yes … wool is one of the best temperature regulating materials and can make a significant difference for those that tend to sleep hot. There is more about the pros and cons of wool quilting vs stretch knit unquilted covers in post #6 here. There is also more in post #2 here about the many variables that can affect sleeping temperature.
You may have read some of these already but you can read some of my thoughts about Essentia and some of the misleading claims they make and some forum discussions with them in this thread and this thread and posts #3 and #4 here).
You can see my thoughts about Plushbeds in post #2 here. They are certainly a “better than average” choice but for many people they wouldn’t be the “best value” choice compared to some of the other options that they have available to them.
Unfortunately nobody else can feel what you feel and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to use specs (either yours or a mattress) or "theory at a distance to predict which mattress would be the best match for someone else in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). Testing a mattress in person using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post is the most reliable way to predict whether a mattress is a good match for you but when you can’t test a mattress in person then the best approach would be a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced online manufacturer who can help “talk you through” the options they have that have the best chance of success and who will know more about their own mattresses and “matching” their mattresses to different body types and sleeping positions based on the “averages” of their customers than anyone else (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
The better options or possibilities I’m aware of in the New York City area (subject to following the steps and guidelines in the tutorial post) are listed in post #2 here.
I went through your NYC list and pretty much all of them use wool. Would you say, comfort/performance-wise, wool is close to being mandatory? Or there’s no equivalent substitute?
My issue is more related to paying the vegan/green premium while getting sub par sleep benefits, especially as latex would be hotter than the spring mattress we use now (which is already hot for me).
I suggested that if organic and cruelty free was of primary importance, we could just shop for a futon and call it a day. At least it won’t cost that much. Except I have some back pains, and my wife has scoliosis, so I don’t think futon is practical.
Wool certainly isn’t mandatory although it’s a great temperature regulator and it can also be used to pass the fire regulations instead of using a different type of barrier so they are also a very popular choice for those that prefer more natural materials in their mattress. It is also more resilient than many other types of natural fibers. As far as comfort or performance vs other materials this would be a preference choice. There is more about the pros and cons of wool quilting vs an unquilted stretch knit cover in post #6 here.
Several of the members in the online list have latex mattresses that either come without a wool quilted cover or can replace the regular wool quilted cover with a stretch knit cover. These would normally use a different fire barrier such as rayon/silica and with a prescription some manufacturers can make a mattress with no fire barrier at all (see post #2 here for more about fire barriers). Some manufacturers such as Sleep Essentials only sell their mattresses by prescription.
There are many variables in a mattress that can affect sleeping temperature (see post #2 here) so how a latex mattress would compare to your innerspring mattress in terms of temperature would depend on the type of materials and components that are above your innerspring. Latex is generally the most breathable of all the foam materials (memory foam, polyfoam, latex foam).
Futons have come a long way since the days when they were mostly made with cotton and there is a much finer dividing line between some futons and some mattresses. There are some good options for futons in post #2 here that can give you a sense of the types of futons that are now available if you do decide to go in that direction.
There are also some manufacturers that make traditional innerspring/cotton mattresses as well. In most areas of the country these are more difficult to find but in the general NYC area there are several places that carry these including …
That would depend entirely on who you ask. For those that would prefer no fire barrier in their mattress (usually to remove the possibility of having chemicals in their mattress) they would say yes and for those that are more concerned with the possibility of their mattress contributing to the risks of a fire they would say no. It depends on which of the risks (chemicals or fire) would be a bigger concern to each person. There is more in post #4 here about fire barriers as well.
I’m not sure what you’re asking specifically but it certainly uses high quality materials (100% natural Dunlop and 100% natural Talalay) and there are no weak links in the design. It also uses wool as a fire barrier though if that is an issue for you.
Brooklyn Bedding is also one of the members here which means that I think very highly of them and they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency.
Just a little update. Wife okayed wool. And we were gonna check out innerspring in addition to / instead of latex. So this weekend:
We went to Scott Jordon to take a look around. Right off the bat, innerspring got nixed. Too bouncy. Scott Jordon has Berkeley Ergonomics whose all latex featured Talalay (I believe two layers). She was okay with it, but I suggested we check more mattresses.
Then we went to RoomandBoard (which wasn’t a great shopping experience). We basically just left since there was only twin size to sample, and they only had one all latex. But we did confirm that innerspring was no go.
Then we stopped by Keetsa (hey, they all are around the same area, why not). My wife originally was considering something there, I don’t know why since they mainly have memory foam - and the “toxins” and “chemicals” she was trying to avoid would be more of a concern with memory foam. Anyway, their one all latex mattress didn’t impress.
Next and last, we went to Clean Bedroom. They feature Dunlop, and wife preferred that more than Talalay. She actually doesn’t like the bouncy-ness, so that’s why she didn’t like innerspring. Anyway, we left without getting anything. It was too much to take in at once since Clean Bedroom had many more options. We most liked OrganicPedic Duo or Oyasumi II. And definitely on the firm side.
(Not surprising, at Scott Jordon, they said Talalay was the best latex, and at Clean Bedroom Dunlop was the best.)
But it was a good experience overall. Hopefully we can reach some decision soon.
Just for the sake of clarity … Keetsa doesn’t have an all latex mattress. If you mean the Keetsa Latex Mattress … you can see in the image here that it has 1.5" of latex on top of a pocket coil innerspring (which may be why you weren’t impressed).
There is a difference among 100% natural Talalay, 100% natural Dunlop, and organic Dunlop?
When someone said they use organic latex, is there a particular certification or proof that would be helpful?
I’m looking through the organic queen Dunlop mattresses first to get a sense of the cost. Hoping it’ll be less than $1,500 or so. But when I look through a lot of sites, I get terminology fatigued/confused.
Thus far, we narrowed the search to a few choices:
Cozy Pure - 6+3 layers
Sleeping Organic - 3+3+3 layers
Sleep EZ - 3+3+3 layers
Brooklyn Bedding - 6+3 layers
and have tested and am considering from Clean Bedroom
Oyasumi II - 2+4+2 layers
OrganicPedic Duo - 3+3+3 layers
All of these are exclusively or have all Dunlop options. (I haven’t tested Dunlop core with Talalay Comfort, but wife is ok with all Dunlop so that’s what I’m going with).
I haven’t tried a 6+3 layer mattress, anyone can share what are the main difference (aside from greater customization) in feel?
We are leaning (due to my preference for firmer mattress) for the 6+3 - it’ll be a 6 firm + 3 medium layer. Or for 3+3+3, 3 firm + 3 medium + 3 medium layers. Again, I’m around 150, back sleeper. My wife is around 115, back and sometimes side sleeper.
We are still considering the Oyasumi II because wife was okay with it, but I found it not thick enough. When I sat on it, it felt too thin. Was it just too firm, or perhaps all in my head?
I also believe that Cozy Pure is the only one of the choices that have “zone” type layer. Is it very significant? The rest are just regular layers of latex, I believe.
You are certainly looking at some high quality options
The specific difference would depend entirely on how the the 6" + 3" layers compared to the other options you are considering (assuming they are all 100% natural Dunlop) in terms of firmness, layer thickness, the order of the layers, and the type of cover they used. There would be very little difference between two 3" layers and a single 6" layer that used the same type and blend of latex where both of the 3" layers were the same firmness as the single 6" core and had the same materials above and below them and a very similar cover and quilting (see post #2 here) but once you start changing the thickness or firmness of the layers, the mattress cover, or the design of the mattress then there would be a more obvious difference between two different mattresses with different designs or components. The only way to know whether any specific difference would be better or worse for you in terms of PPP would be your own testing or sleeping experience.
You can see some comments about zoned layers in this article and in post #11 here and post #2 here. If the zoning is a good match for you then it can certainly make “some” difference in terms of PPP depending on the specifics of the zoning.
When you are down to finalists that are all choices between “good and good” and there are no weak links in any of them (which there aren’t) and no clear winners between them … then post #2 here may be helpful when it comes time to make your final choice based on all the objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.
The combination that we tried that was (OMI - organicpedic duo) 3 firm, 3 medium, and 3 medium. That was closest to getting to the firmness level that I/we prefer. We tried 3 firm, 3 medium, and 3 soft, and that was too soft.
But I don’t know how to translate this through an online order.
You won’t need to “translate” it because one of the most important parts of an online purchase is a more detailed conversation with the retailer or manufacturer that you are dealing with so they can help “talk you through” the options they have that would have the best chance of success. If the retailer or manufacturer you are dealing with is familiar with the OMI (Organicpedic) Duo and has the same type and blend of latex available then they will be able to tell you which of their layering combinations would be the closest approximation even though it may not be an exact match because of any differences in the cover, exact firmness levels of each layer, or the sculpting of the latex. If they aren’t familiar with the Duo then the more information you can provide them the more you will help them to help you make the closest choice.
If they have a good exchange or return policy then you will be able to use your actual sleeping experience to decide on how close it is to your “target” and/or whether it is a good match for you in terms of PPP based on your actual sleeping experience.