What materials does a comfort layer of a coil mattress need to be in order to last 5+ years?....

And any brands that might have it any of what lasts above coils that are $2,000 or less? I’m realizing that if i don’t do pure latex i’ll have to accept $1 a night sleeping costs, so 2k that could last me 5-6 years might not be the worst thing … maybe. Worth looking into anyway. it’s expensive, but i’ve been through so much with this mattress and i just want to be happy at night.

latex on top of coil, yes. But i’ve found those hyrbids relatively hard to find. Although I re-tried a wonderful one today during my 2nd trip to ABC, it’s priced at $3,500 though. RoomandBoard has one as well. Good price but they only carry a firm. Berkley Ergonomic makes some that i tried, those were kinda hard as heck. wth. ouch.

Also currently cruising Organic Rest and Green sleep based on a post from you earlier. Any opinions on Natura? I’m currently looking at their Green Laurel line Natura Mattresses - Natura USA. Prolly too good to be true, but still.

i tried the Vi Spring mattresses today, they were wonderful, and have wool/horsehair/cotton. Do those materials often last without getting lumpy though? It was double sided, as soon as she said “flip every three months” i was all. :dry: They had one that was $2,600. I’m not ready to pay that much right now, but even if i were if you aren’t ready to flip the heck out of it, i’m betting it’s a losing proposition? Course if i could find one under $2k, maybe i could flip it and rotate. lol.

I know HD foams are ok, What other materials could i look for? Or at least what brands should i look to that carry good comfort layers wool/hd/etc. I know that most companies won’t have good specs, so i am willing to assume the worst based on the company based on their general integrity or lack thereof.

thanks.

Hi paisley,

I don’t think your question can be answered in the quite the way you asked it because there are many factors that are involved in the durability of a mattress that you can read about in post #4 here. In other words durability is relative to many things including the person on the mattress and the same material that could be used in a durable mattress in one design may not be as durable in another design where the layer was in a different place in the mattress or had other materials above or below it or was in a two sided mattress.

Polyfoam, latex, memory foam, microcoils, and natural fibers can all last longer than 5-6 years in combination with an innerspring in a well designed mattress.

A brand is just a label on a mattress and it’s always much more effective to evaluate a mattress based on the specific design and materials that are inside it than it is to go by brands. Designs change on a regular basis and I don’t keep records of specific mattresses based on their construction or materials (which would be an impossible job). The better brands and the ones I would focus on are the ones that disclose what is in their mattress so you can make meaningful assessments and comparisons with other mattresses. As a general rule I would tend to avoid memory foam that was less than 4 lbs and polyfoam that was less than 1.8 lbs (1.5 lbs with some caution in some constructions) in amounts more than around an inch or so. When there is more than 2" of lower quality foam in the upper layers of a mattress it can become the weak link of the mattress.

Their latex mattresses use good quality materials but like any mattress their other mattresses are only as good as the construction and quality of the materials inside which is the only way to evaluate any mattress. They are also not in the best value range. They have also lost a lot of their retailers since they went bankrupt and were bought by Spring Air Sommex. They certainly wouldn’t be my first choice.

When they are made the right way (which the super premium brands do) then yes. Natural fibers will become firmer as they compress over time but they are very durable. Lumpy mattresses are usually from materials that have compressed into the coils and are usually a sign of poor construction.

Comfort layer materials are listed in this section and support layer materials are listed in this section. The choice between materials is a preference and all materials have good and worse quality versions. The only common material that doesn’t have its own section is gel memory foam because the information is still evolving as new materials reach the market but post #8 here and the links it includes has more information about these.

Phoenix

Thanks so much. Great info. : ) Sooooo helpful. : )

From a longevity standpoint, one way to decide how long a mattress will last is to assess the thickness of the comfort layers. In general, the support system of a mattress tends to be its longest lasting component. When I have been asked how to pick a mattress I have always suggested finding the most supportive, pressure relieving, and comfortable mattress with the least amount of materials on top of the support layer. When you go about finding a mattress this way, the comfort you are experiencing is actually coming from the support layer and the comfort layers are just there to fine tune the feel. Whether the support system is a coil unit or latex core, it will almost always be more durable than the material put on top, so if you minimize those layers you stand a better chance of the mattress lasting longer. A lot of times, manufacturers make bigger beds because they think they can get more dollars for them. However, bigger doesn’t always mean better. As Phoenix reiterates, you really need to know the details of what is in the mattress. Also, from your post, it sounded like you weren’t a big fan of the two-sided mattress idea and on the surface the inconvenience of flipping and turning doesn’t sound appealing. However, a two-sided mattress allows for the most flexibility in evening our the wear patterns in your sleep set. Compression in the comfort layers of a mattress are, for the most part, inevitable so being able to break in the mattress in way that is uniform adds to the comfort life. Happy mattress hunting.

Yup, you’re right. i think i’m gonna need to find a flippable one. Unfortunately i don’t think i can find any for under $2,000. How in the heck do people buy mattresses is now beyond me. I still have yet to find a non-firm non-latex mattress under $1,600 for full mattress that will last 5 years or $1,800/7 years. Perhaps my new search should include an up to $700 topper to add to a $900 mattress. Dear heavens how beautiful is this: The Seasons Pure Natural Latex Mattress Topper . Not that i can afford it, but still.

either way, off to continue my search. : ). thanks. Where’s the tears emoticon. Hopefully my friend will drive me to connecticut and maybe the answer lies there.

lol @ happy mattress shopping. I literally almost cried today at Scott Jordan furniture when i realized none of the beds worked for my body as confirmed by the sales guy.

Paisley,

I strongly recommend looking to Carolina Mattress Guild.

http://www.carolinamattressguild.com/

You mentioned hybrids. This company has a line called Cool Coil that is an outstanding value with a layer of latex added into the upholstery. They are 2000 and less!

Sam

k. thanks. just emailed them to see if they have anything near ny. They have a lot of things that look nice, like these:

http://www.carolinamattressguild.com/product/Flourish-Pillowtop

http://www.carolinamattressguild.com/product/Platinum%20-%20Pillowtop

http://www.carolinamattressguild.com/product/Caress

http://www.carolinamattressguild.com/product/Splendid

no idea the price but the ingredients of some of them seem like they would make it into my price range.

oh man, so how about they sell they just wrote me back and they do sell in ny, they sell at sleepy’s, and when i first went to sleepys a week ago i liked a carolina mattress the best of all of them! lol. but i didn’t buy it cuz it was so inexpensive. i’m gonna check the bed i tried and see if it has decent materials. it can’t though, the matty was only $700 after the “sale price”.

edit: k, i just looked around at some reviews, that modelthat Sleepys carries is a cheapie one that people are saying gets dents, but hard to tell cuz most mattress reviewers get it in the mail and say ZOMG, GREAT MATTRESS! (so irritating). Anyway, i don’t think they sell their hybrids in ny. funny though that that just happened to be the mattress i liked most of all the ones under $1.7k

Paisley,

If you do a search on google for two-sided latex mattresses there are some good choices of stores to shop. In your situation, since you are buying over the internet and can’t actually test it in person, I would suggest buying a smooth top latex mattress…one without any comfort layers. When you do this you will be getting a mattress with a solid support core that won’t change too much over time. You should be able to find one of those for around $1100 in a full plus shipping. From there, I would suggest going the topper route in order to fine tune the comfort to suit your body type. You could look at a latex or wool topper. In fact, you could probably get one of each and still be under your total of $2000. This also gives you flexibility as time goes on and your comfort preference changes. Again, good luck.

Yeah. I just posted this beauty thinking of that idea. But i wonder if you ever get that same feeling of when it’s tufted b/c it’s sewn into the mattress? No idea cuz i’ve never seen such a beauty in person. check out this gorgeous topper: http://www.goodnightnaturals.com/seasons_natural_latex_matress_topper.html
yummers.

I just purchased a BB 3" latex topper online a few hours ago, which puts me in such a better mood knowing there may be some relief in sight. And i have this little thingy i bought a few years ago so i’ll improvise for now.

Now i can have a leisurely look for mattresses and toppers. Which will be a much different feeling than desperation and frustration.

Thanks everyone here so much for your support and help. This last 2 - 3 weeks have been tough, physically and otherwise. Pray for me my latex topper helps me. If it doesn’t, well… And if it does work for me, i can keep looking for just the right compromises/solutions or even wait up to 4 years and can go ahead and find some tufted fabulous vi-spring type mattress or even better, some tufted coil + latex/wool hybrid … Well, hopefully i have more income at that point. Or maybe i’ll love my topper so much i will decide that a total latex bed is for me after all.

: )

If longevity is key I would stick with a coil spring mattress that is flippable. The only way to get a long lasting mattress is to flip them on a regular basis. All those “non-flippables” will wear out much quicker! I too was burned on a non flippable mattress and only got 4 years out of it. Never again will I buy a non flippable mattress! I recommend finding a local mattress maker in your area and purchase from them. They usually have much better materials in their mattresses. If I were in your shoes I would buy a reasonably priced (under $1500) flippable mattress and buy a nice pillow top covering that goes over it. I bought a Buis mattress in Holland, MI which had really good materials (12 gauge coil innerspring, 2.8 density foam and flippable) and I paid less than 1500 for a king size. The mattress business is like the used car business, you have to be very informed or you will get burned!

Hi dan87951,

If you only got 4 years out of a mattress then the most likely cause was lower quality materials in the comfort layers. While a one sided mattress that uses high quality materials in the comfort layers will normally last much longer than 4 years for the large majority of people whether you can flip it or not a two sided mattress will certainly increase durability no matter what materials are used.

I also agree with you that Buis Mattress is one of the good guys and makes great quality and value mattresses (which is why they are a manufacturing member of the site).

@ paisley …

If you do decide to look at Carolina Mattress Guild or step foot into Sleepys … I would make darn sure that you don’t buy anything on the same day you test mattresses no matter what you are offered and I would also make sure that you are able to find out the quality of every layer in a mattress before you buy it so you can make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses that have a similar design and materials. I personally wouldn’t walk through their front door. While a layer of latex is great … if its only a thin layer then the other materials are just as important and can be the weak link of the mattress. None of the links you posted have anywhere near the information you would need to make an informed buying decision.

I would also not pay much attention to reviews when it comes to evaluating a mattress (as you can see in post #13 here) because most people who write reviews have no idea of the quality of the mattress they purchased or what is in it (and the reviews certainly don’t include this information in almost every case).

You have many options for under $2000 and there are also many mattresses where the layers can be exchanged so if one layer no longer is suitable for you or if it softens or breaks down faster than the deeper layers in the mattress you can just replace a layer instead of a whole mattress (similar to the mattress topper idea except they are all inside a single cover)

When you are ready to buy a new mattress … post #1 here has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make a great choice that is well inside your budget and also includes a link to some of the manufacturing members here that sell online and have some of the best quality and value in the country if you if you decide to go in that direction.

Phoenix

Yeah, i emailed them this morning after someone mentioned them, and what the sent me back confirmed that they are not beds that i would want to buy. They sent me marketing materials that clearly revealed they had nothing to boast about. So i nixed them based on that. Maybe they have some somewhere but not in nyc sleepys they don’t.

re: reviews, i agree that people don’t know what they’re talking about, but imo there is always value to looking around through information that people have written. For example, if every person who owns a certain mattress more than 6 months says they got dents in 6 months, you can eliminate the mattress right away before further research. vice versa, etc (and if you know how to separate real reviews from fake, obviously, etc, etc ) then you can take something from it. It depends on how you read through reviews etc. I analyze reviews a lot, i’ve actually read easily over 15,000 of them in the last, i dunno, 10 years, probably more. I look for specifics and consistencies, and some other stuff, obviously depending on the type of item you’re looking at and what you’re looking to find out.

i promise you i’ve read the post on how to look. : ). And based on that i scoured my city and online and looked for a ride to CT where there are stores that value mattresses. Unfortunately my friend is not able to give me a ride to CT this month or next so my options now in person do not exist. Unless i missed a store with value beds somewhere in nyc, and i’m not sure i have. but I swear, I have taken every recommendation here, have researched the ones online too, and while there are some that look very promising in WI, CA. AZ and other states that are farrrr away and at least for now those are not options for me. And no all latex for me at the moment, i literally tried the vast majority of latex beds available in nyc, 3 of the stores i’ve visited twice, and at this point am not in love enough to want one for 7 years even though they are a very good value). Maybe after i spend some time with my topper i’ll know for sure.

if i missed something and someone knows of a pre-made plush, coil + latex, or coil + latex/wool mattress, or coil plus polyfoam 1.8lb density or greater or whatever the case may be, that will last: $1,600 for full mattress that will last 5 years or $1,800/7 years in or right around nyc please let me know. I believe it exists somewhere, there are some places in California that i’d love to go to (bay bed, parklane, a couple others), and in AZ. But unfortunately i don’t have access to them,

There are some custom bed makers that i will continue to look into in NJ though, i think there’s one in upstate ny or LI or something that’s on my list. And mattress factory in NJ might have a mattress that is coil + durable comfort layers, hard to tell from there website but you listed it and when i went to the site i see things that might could fall within my needs, they have the parts i want, but no pricing on there. And something like this, or that they can create might work… http://www.mycustombedding.com/best-mattress-brand/prod_35.html but i don’t know about an 8" mattress. But yeah, i see that they might be out there, maybe just harder to find then things usually are, but maybe it is out there. and it would be good to find a bed that meets my needs and that i like and not have to spend 3K on it, so i will look with that in mind.

Anyway, I’ve bought myself some time for now with the latex topper (thank goodness), and hopefully within the next 6 months i can get to CT, or whenever i restart the search since i have time now and dont need one right away. and maybe, maybe there’s one there. Maybe now that the pressure is off i can approach my search differently.

Other than latex, is there anything that can be super soft and resist body indentations for a very long time? I’m assuming 1.8lb can be fairly soft, right? but if no more than 1/2" here and there", then there isn’t much softness, right? so what are these mythical soft but durable beds using for their layers? I did read you write in many cases there is a loose connection btwn softness and density but i also read you saying somewhere it’s hard to get very soft and still have good density. i’m trying to find the sweet spot in hopes that someone has it. (I did re-read the piece you wrote on comfort layers).

i’m thinking there is probably a reason there aren’t many durable plush mattresses out there but maybe someone has found there way around it. I sorta suspect the panacea to be a few things over a soft latex in order to get the feeling i want while still using the latex for the resistant to impressions but still unsure what the stuff over it would be in order to be soft, allow me to sink into it, and also it not leave impressions.

and if someone uses small layers of different things, does that work out it its favor? like 1/2" of this, 1/2" of that. I’m sure it’s silly of me to try to think of what to look for, cuz if i haven’t found it yet chances are not too good. But my list of potential plushy but durable comfort layers mattresses is running out as they are crossed out 1 by 1. Which might be okay, i can start my list of custom bed makers, but not ready to go custom until i finishof my potentials pre-fab list.

Hi aisley,

The quality of a material has nothing to do with its softness or firmness.

Polyfoam and latex both come in a wide range of firmness levels. With latex density is closely connected to firmness but with polyfoam they are not really connected at all. Even memory foam of the same density can come in softer or firmer versions (as well as having very different properties such as temperature sensitivity or response time). 1.8 lb polyfoam is on the lower side of the high quality polyfoam range (some would say 1.5 lb). You could have 1.8 lb polyfoam or any density that could be either very soft or very firm. This would be a higher quality and more durable material than you would typically find in most mainstream mattresses although polyfoam can come in much higher quality levels yet (such as HR which starts at 2.5 lb density). If its used in the comfort layers of a two sided mattress it would be more durable yet.

You can read more about polyfoam comfort layers here and polyfoam support layers here.

Even with higher quality materials though … softer materials will be less durable than the same quality of material in firmer versions.

Sometimes yes and sometimes no. It depends on the specific materials and how they are used in the design and on how well the mattress that uses them matches your body type and sleeping style in terms of PPP. I don’t think that a mattress that uses many thin layers that are glued together are particularly beneficial or useful in general terms or have any real advantages over mattresses that use fewer layers that are thicker but using a few thinner layers for specific design goals or in different ways can certainly create different “feels” in a mattress that some people would prefer.

As in all things … everything depends on the specifics rather than generalities and I wouldn’t look for specific “designs” or “rules” which you couldn’t predict anyway in terms of how they will feel or perform but instead look for good quality materials for your budget range that match your needs and preferences in terms of PPP.

All foam materials come in higher and lower quality versions and in the case of polyfoam any density can come in any firmness level.

Phoenix

There is where i get confused. So i see it’s harder to find the thing that’s better than 1.8 in a soft, so that’s where my confusion starts, but of couse it means it’s harder but can be done…okay, so someone out there has it, who, i don’t know,…but then i see it should be used with a firmer foam. So how can it be made plush.

k, i can live with that, i will accept that i won’t be getting the same life of bed as a firm, which is good to know, i was losing it thinking of this mythical soft bed that will stay nice.

makes sense, thanks.

do you know or have heard of any bed that is soft-plush and resists body impressions that is not a latex bed? Maybe it’s got that somewhat softer 2.5 with a firmer foam.Even if it’s not the bed for me, just 1 bed, somewhere, that someone has come back with a thumbs up to. My potentials list is now down to a bed that isn’t for sale yet in WI, another possible bed in WI, a bed in CA that i can’t get to, and a couple others in MI. lol. Restopedic’s Nature’s Wonder in CT is still on the possible potentials list even though i have literally not found 1 owner online to speak for it, none here either, except for the post i just bumped, at he went with firmer. It’s still on the list, because on paper it sounds about right.
What am i missing. Are these few and far between or am i just missing something. or Maybe its just actually really hard to do. Atlhough i don’t see why it should be, maybe it is.

Hi paisley,

I think you may be crossing the line into getting a little bit overanalytical and trying to overthink things and trying to imagine how a mattress will feel based on specs instead of your own testing.

Which stores have you visited so far?

I don’t think you will have to travel quite so far to find a good mattress that matches your needs and preferences and uses good quality materials.

Phoenix

You’ll notice a bit of a theme below b/c I started by visiting all the places in nyc that has latex, unfortunately realizing that an all-latex bed isn’t for me i continued on leaving longs for last b/c they have a wider selection of manufacterers and bed types.

I went to Longs. ABC, Clean Bedroom, Keetsa, R&B, Scott Jordan, Macys, Sleepys, Dixie Foam, Futon Foam on 8th. Since all-latex didn’t work for me, and sleepys/macys obviously just do s–t beds, that left me with nothing. Keetsa had a hybrid, very firm, some traditionals iirc, very firm. R&B has a hybrid, very firm, and a traditional with poor foam. SJ had a BE a coil+latex, i went twice trying to make one of them work for me, the one that was soft, didn’t seem to feel pleasant at all. Then any time you put significant pressure in any area, like putting your hand down as you get off the bed, it goes right down and you feel a good deal of the coil mechanism. yuck. Couldn’t get off it fast enough, but of course, went back again recently thinking, okay, i have to make that work (since it literally is the only bed i saw that is soft/plush and has long lasting materials over coil. so i zenned out and tried again. no dice. And that’s pretty much it. lol. The firm versions didn’t feel like that, but again, those are firm. Longs has an interesting selection. They had a range small less expensive manufacturers and all the way up to Heirloom. Best thing i could find there was a firm therepedic traditional that i put the omi Wave topper topper on. ABC did have a wonderful hybrid @ $3,500, too expensive. (abc is very high end, so they had nothng under 2K, TCB is also very upscale. I didn’t do bloomingdales but they’re pretty upscale and the only stuff they have that’s under 2k are the S brands, that’s about it for mid end, and the rest, and the mid end stores had nothing that is a coil with good materials. That’s why agupte ran into the same problem. The closest both of us found that had coils and good materials were literally the same bed in the same store, but the soft was awful, and he is looking at the firm version.