What should we rule out? And then what?

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

I was polishing up a long, detailed post about my shopping for a new mattress…and then I hit the wrong key and it all went poof. So here’s a shorter one instead.

My wife and I are currently sleeping on a very plain, traditional innerspring mattress that I’ve had for 14 years now. The label on it says “Simmons Beautyrest Luxury Firm”; I’m not sure of the specs. It’s not horrible, but not especially comfortable either. Dips a bit in the middle (though less than you might expect). Probably safe to say it’s time for a change.

I’ve been reading tutorial pages and searching threads here; have also been looking at Sleep Like The Dead (pretty helpful) and Consumer Reports (less helpful), and even scanning Amazon reviews. I’m having trouble determining what we should rule out, and what options we should then investigate.

Here’s some basics. We’re both somewhat tall (I’m 6’3", she’s a bit shorter) and both over 270 pounds. I’m a side/stomach sleeper; she’s a side/back sleeper. One of her big concerns is sleeping hot (I’m a bit of an oven, it seems). I’m particularly interested in durability. My nightmare scenario is that I spend a bunch of money on a mattress that, at first, is much more comfortable than what I’m used to; then, once I’m good and spoiled, it starts to break down, and by year 3 or 5 it’s actually worse than what I’ve got now.

This nightmare is made more vivid by the fact that I’ve done enough research to find credible-sounding horror stories about virtually every single sleep product that has ever been sold to humankind. Heck, even on this site–full as it is of people taking great care to make the best possible choices–there are long threads dedicated to continuing problems with manufacturers, threads where deals went bad when retailers got flaky or went out of business, threads where people bought a good bed that turned out to be the wrong one for them, and so forth.

Basically I’ve learned enough so far that my head is spinning, and my worrying has kicked into overdrive.

Now I do have a couple strong endorsements from family members to guide me. My brother and his wife have had a Tempur-Pedic for four years now and still love it; my parents have had one of the Sealy Optimum series for a year now and are very pleased. Obviously, those recommendations run quite contrary to the opinion of this site; I imagine replies to this thread might point me in somewhat different directions.

I will be grateful for any and all thoughtful input.

2

Hi KevinTMC,

The tutorial post includes a link to this article which covers most of what I would rule out. Other than that I would use your testing to decide which type of materials and mattresses you tend to prefer (the overviews and the pages in each section also includes more information about most of the mattress materials you will encounter). The choice of the type of material that you like best is a preference but regardless of which type of mattress or materials you like best I would always make sure that it’s a high quality and durable version of that material.

Post #2 here and the posts it links to goes into more detail about all the many variables that can affect sleeping temperature and post #4 here and the posts it links to has more information about the variables that can affect durability and the useful life of a mattress relative to each person.

There are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved in choosing a mattress for someone else to make specific suggestions based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or theory at a distance that can possible be more accurate than your own careful and objective testing (using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post) which is always the most reliable way to predict which mattress will be the best match for you in terms of PPP (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

If you follow the steps in the tutorial post one at a time then the odds are overwhelming that you won’t be one of the people that is posting about “issues” you are having after a purchase. While nothing is ever 100% of course, the very few people that do have issues after an “informed” purchase have a much more visible presence than the huge majority of people that buy a mattress and you never hear from them again.

This is usually the result of too much “analysis” and reading too much technical information which leads to information overload vs just following the steps in the tutorial post one step at a time. Once you have read the basic information like you would read a book (and not “studied it”) and have a general sense of what you are interested in and what to avoid (steps #1 and #2), then it’s time to decide which local (or online) retailers or manufacturers to deal with (step 3) and then visit them to start testing mattresses or talk with them on the phone if they are online (step 4). Once you have narrowed down your choices at each retailer or manufacturer you are dealing with to a single mattress then comes step 5 which is making a final choice.

I would avoid using your mind to try and figure out what your body needs to tell you with your testing because specs won’t tell you much if anything about how suitable or comfortable a mattress will be in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferenes). I would also avoid using your body to tell you what your mind needs to tell you because you can’t “feel” the quality or durability of the materials inside a mattress and you can only know this if you find out the the type and quality of all the layers (see this article). I would focus as much or more initially on the knowledge and experience of the retailers and manufacturers you choose to deal with because they will already know what you would otherwise need to learn and who you deal with can be one of the most important parts of a successful mattress purchase. Finally I would avoid mattress reviews because other people’s experiences will tell you very little about the quality of a mattress or how it will feel or how suitable it will be for you (see post #13 here).

As you will read in the tutorial post (and the earlier link) … I would completely avoid both of these and all other major brands and similar to reviews I would always keep in mind that a mattress that is “perfect” for someone else or even a large group of people may be completely unsuitable for you to sleep on.

Phoenix

3

Thank you for the reply, Phoenix. What I’ve gathered from the information I’ve read here is that I should visit a local retailer that carries mattresses other than the major brands (you’ve already provided a long list of possibilities for my locale) and talk to the people there, check out what they have to offer, test some mattresses, and learn about their specs.

I will admit that I am a little puzzled by how many of these retailers also carry, and primarily advertise, the major brands, if those are such horrible deals for any and all customers. I’m also a bit surprised that, in the Internet/social media age, the major brands could continue to get away with overcharging people for substandard products, over and over again.

But then again, I’m not finding a wealth of reliable-looking information via general web searches, either for or against the major manufacturers. Sleep Like The Dead looks like it provides useful data–though the sample sizes are sometimes small and I’m not sure how many of their reviews are from people who’ve had their beds more than a few months. That site and yours are about it so far.

Any other sites you would recommend I look at–particularly ones that come at this with a similar perspective as yours, Phoenix? (This is not a knock against you personally–you know a tremendous amount and are so very generous with your time–but right now I feel like I’m having to go to my wife with just, “I found this one guy on the Internet who runs a forum and he says…”)

4

Hi KevinTMC,

Yes … once you’ve gathered some basic information so you know what to look for and what to avoid and you have a good sense of your budget range … then when it’s time to start testing mattresses it comes down to finding knowledgeable and experienced retailers and manufacturers that are transparent about the materials in their mattresses so you can identify any weak links and make meaningful comparisons between mattresses. When you are choosing a retailer or manufacturer to deal with I would always make sure that they will be able to provide you with the information you need to make an informed decision (see this article).

Once you have confirmed this (and I would do this on the phone first so you don’t waste a trip) … then post #13 here has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase but it comes down to 1. Suitability, 2. Durability, and 3. All the other parts of your personal value equation (including price and return or exchange options) that are most important to you.

This is as much about the effect of advertising on consumers and on their tendency as a whole to believe anything that is repeated enough times rather than doing more meaningful research so they understand the “why” behind the marketing claims they are exposed to more than anything else. This is compounded by the lack of meaningful information about mattress materials that is available for consumers as well and the general lack of knowledge that most salespeople have in the mainstream industry. In most cases reading reviews which say nothing about the suitability, durability, or value of a mattress for any particular person has replaced meaningful research. In the mainstream industry … profit margins (lower quality materials with higher markups) are the rule. The product that the major manufacturers sell to their customers (who are the larger retailers and chain stores, not consumers) is profit margin, not mattresses, and the focus on quality and durability has been lost.

This has been the topic of many posts around the forum over the years but you can read more about the major manufacturers, the current state of the industry, some of its recent history, and why I started the site in posts such as post #12 here and in post #404 here and post #4 here and post #3 here and in post #3 here but the “moral” of all of these is that I would avoid major brands or any mattress where you aren’t able to find out the quality of the materials inside it.

There are very few good resources available on the web that provide accurate and meaningful information about mattresses and unfortunately review sites have replaced sites where more legitimate and meaningful research is possible (which is one of the reasons I started the site in the first place). I am not a big fan of review sites for mattresses although they can be very helpful with more “commodity” types of purchases that are more objective or the criteria that differentiates better and worse are more clear and aren’t as subjective or preference based as mattresses. They can also be helpful for knowing the quality of the service of a particular business. There is more about mattress reviews and the reasons I would pay little attention to them in post #13 here and post #4 here and post #20 here.

In most cases mattress reviews will tell you little to nothing about the suitability, durability, or “value” of a mattress purchase because they don’t contain the specific information you would need to make them relevant to the specifics of any particular person or their circumstances or preferences. There are also broad categories of mattresses that include very high quality mattresses and very low quality mattresses and if the majority of mattresses in a category are in the lower quality range then making broad judgements about the whole category based on the “averages” of these types of mattresses would lead consumers to look past some of the best quality/value mattresses in the industry. In some cases there are many mattresses included in a category that don’t belong in that category in the first place.

For example on Sleep Like The Dead, the ratings for “innerspring” mattresses are the lowest of all the mattress categories and yet there are some innerspring mattresses that use very high quality materials, are very durable, and are the most suitable match for some people in terms of PPP (including some of the most knowledgeable people I know in the industry that could sleep on anything they wished to and sleep on an innerspring mattress). If someone was shopping by “category” and believed that innerspring mattresses have a lower satisfaction than other types of mattresses they may never look at better quality innerspring mattresses that used high quality materials in the comfort layers and which may be the best match for them. The devil is always in the details and broad assessments that don’t differentiate between the specific mattresses or the “why” behind the “what” are more misleading than helpful.

In addition to this … the highest rated memory foam mattress on the same site is a mattress that uses 3 lb density memory foam which is a lower quality material than I would suggest considering in anything but the very lowest budget ranges … which they aren’t (see post #2 here). The reason for this is that you can’t feel the quality of the materials in a mattress by lying on it (low quality and less durable materials can feel the same as higher quality more durable materials when they are new) and most reviewers that purchase a mattress that uses lower quality materials have no idea about the quality of the materials in the mattress they purchased because they don’t know how to tell the difference or how to make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses that are in the same budget range and use better quality materials.

There aren’t very many sites that focus on the types of “fact based” specific information that is focus of this site but one other good source of meaningful and accurate information is the beducation series of videos (see here or here) that are put together by Jeff Scheuer from Mattress To Go who is a member of this site and is among the most knowledgeable people I know in the industry.

While there aren’t many of them … the types of sites to look for are the ones that discuss “why” they believe what they believe or say what they say so that so that the facts and information you are learning becomes more self evident and “makes sense” to you in the bigger picture. That way you won’t need to “believe” someone else that may be more interested in “selling you” than “educating you” or that doesn’t explain the facts and reasoning behind their opinions.

There are also a couple of other “convince my other half” types of replies in post #4 here and post #2 here.

Phoenix

5

A lot of useful information there–thank you. The Mattress To Go videos were good…wish I could buy from that store!

While it might be nice to rule out the major brands, I’m having trouble getting away from them, as not being able to try a bed out locally in-store is a deal-breaker for me, and no return/exchange policy is also a deal-breaker. So I’m likely to settle on an “S”-brand of some sort, if I can find a one where I have reasonable confidence that it won’t be disastrous.

Last week I visited the nearest Haverty’s, where they were keen to sell me on either the Tempur-Pedic or Sealy Optimum–each of which, as I mentioned upthread, has been commended to me by family members. This week, I visited a recommended smaller local sleep store. The salesman, who was chatty and down-to-earth, didn’t think there was much reason for us to consider the most expensive beds in the store; we wound up comparing what I believe are mid-range Beautyrest and Posturepedic models. The one that afforded me the best posture and comfort was a Posturepedic Gel Series that at this store is labeled Allendale Cushion Firm. In its showroom state, I felt comfortable with this bed.

But how would it hold up? What quality are the materials in the comfort layers? I’ll have to check back with the store and see if they can tell me, as my search for specs on the Internet has come up dry…though it did, incidentally, lead me to pockets of highly upset user reviews (though not necessarily for this specific model) on goodbed.com and Epinions. That was a bit alarming (though the salesman had told me that some of last year’s Posturepedics had been a real disappointment; but he thought the newer ones he was showing me were a solid improvement).

Perhaps you have some idea, Phoenix, of what the specific differences would be between this Posturepedic I just tested out and the sort of innerspring mattress you’d be more likely to recommend?

And did it make sense for me to start looking at innerspring models to begin with? My thought was that, compared to the memory foam options, this would offer better prospects for durability, considering that my wife and I are not small people; and also better prospects for sleeping relatively cool. (Well, okay, the Tempur-Pedic Rhapsody foam densities are high enough, and the Breeze bed so strikingly cool to lie down on, that I would consider that the best prospect of all if it weren’t for the sky-high price…and also the nagging worry that they might have quietly downgraded the foam lately, since they’re not famous for being transparent.) I also thought that, worst-case-scenario, a topper would have a better chance of rescuing a prematurely worn-out bed if it were an innerspring. But perhaps I was wrong?

I would appreciate any further reflections on this.

6

Hi KevinTMC,

I wouldn’t have any confidence that it wouldn’t be disastrous with your body type unless I could confirm that the materials were very high quality which is very unlikely with most major brands. This would be a very high risk purchase with a significant chance that you would end up with buyers remorse or durability issues much too quickly.

[quote]Last week I visited the nearest Haverty’s, where they were keen to sell me on either the Tempur-Pedic or Sealy Optimum–each of which, as I mentioned upthread, has been commended to me by family members. This week, I visited a recommended smaller local sleep store. The salesman, who was chatty and down-to-earth, didn’t think there was much reason for us to consider the most expensive beds in the store; we wound up comparing what I believe are mid-range Beautyrest and Posturepedic models. The one that afforded me the best posture and comfort was a Posturepedic Gel Series that at this store is labeled Allendale Cushion Firm. In its showroom state, I felt comfortable with this bed.

But how would it hold up? What quality are the materials in the comfort layers? I’ll have to check back with the store and see if they can tell me, as my search for specs on the Internet has come up dry…though it did, incidentally, lead me to pockets of highly upset user reviews (though not necessarily for this specific model) on goodbed.com and Epinions. That was a bit alarming (though the salesman had told me that some of last year’s Posturepedics had been a real disappointment; but he thought the newer ones he was showing me were a solid improvement).[/quote]

It would depend on the mattress but the odds are very high that none of the mattresses you mentioned here would hold up for you (outside of some of the Tempurpedic mattresses). It may be worthwhile looking at the Jordans site at the Sealy Posturepedic mattresses here or some of the Beautyrest mattresses here and looking at the specs of some of the mattresses that are listed and you will quickly see that they all use lower quality materials than would be suitable for you (or anyone for that matter). You are really taking a very big risk if you buy a mattress where you can’t confirm the quality of the materials inside it and the risk is even higher if it’s a major brand.

Any type of material or component can make a good choice if all the materials are high quality. The type of mattress and materials (innerspring, memory foam, latex, polyfoam etc) is a personal preference but no matter what type of mattress or materials you prefer it would be very important to make sure the materials and components will hold up to your weight. If you don’t know what they are it would be much safer to assume that they are low quality and avoid them.

While you are always free to make the choices that you feel best about of course … I certainly wouldn’t be heading in the direction that you are considering.

If you let me know your city or zip code I’d be happy to let you know about the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area because you are looking in all the directions that I would always suggest avoiding (see the guidelines here) and making all the mistakes that generally lead to a poor quality/value mattress choice.

Phoenix

7

I wasn’t feeling very sure about my options, and you, Phoenix, seemed pretty convinced that I was headed in some unpromising directions, so I took some time off of the search and am now finally coming back to it.

I’m shopping around Athens, GA, and have seen the list of local retailers you made last year. My most recent shopping visit, before I took a break from all this, was to a small store (The Sleep Center, formerly Discount Mattress) that was not only on your list but was also recommended by a good friend. That friend bought her last bed there from a salesman she likes and trusts, because she has known him for years through volunteer organizations.

To retell that story a bit, with corrected information: my wife and I talked to that salesman about our needs and preferences, and wound up testing out beds towards the higher end of his innerspring inventory. (These were all Beautyrests and Posturepedics…the American Bedding products they carry anchor the low-end part of the store.) We took our time, and did our best to test the beds according to the advice I’d seen here. The one I kept going back to was a mattress, priced at $999 for a queen set, that the salesman seemed quite confident was high quality and would hold up well for us even given our size. I later thought I remembered the name as “Allendale Cushion Firm”.

Since finding out more about the materials would help reduce the risks of going with an “S”-brand, I tried researching it after the store visit. I panicked a bit when that research seemed to indicate that that the Allendale Cushion Firm was not a current higher-end Posturepedic Gel Series, but an older lower-tier Posturepedic. I went back to the store, took photographs and notes this time, and found my mistake: the mattress I’d favored was not labeled “AllEndale Cushion Firm” but rather “AllAndale Firm”. Good grief, Sealy, could you be any more confusing?

Even with the correct name, I failed to identify a precise equivalent to this model elsewhere online, even with a picture of the thing handy for comparison. (None of the beds on the Jordans site looked like matches.) With your last post stuck in my mind on top of all this confusion and uncertainty, that was when I just decided to put the whole thing on ice for awhile. It seemed the mattress search was harming my sleep much more than my current 14-year-old Beautyrest could possibly be!

Why was I expending so much energy over an “S”-brand mattress in the first place? I was having trouble finding alternative options…and now that I’m resuming the search, it still feels that way. Our options are limited by the fact that my wife and I are just not willing to buy something unseen or untested, and that return/exchange policies a big deal to us. (The importance of the latter was impressed upon us last year when my folks bought a mattress at the Round Barn, it turned out to be of shockingly poor quality, and they were stuck.)

Looking again at your list, perhaps I should figure out which Sanders location is closest, and take a look at their Jamison mattresses? I don’t see a lot of other non-S-brand options that meet my requirements.

Thank you, Phoenix, for your continued advice, and patience. It may or may not seem like it, but I am reading and seriously thinking about the things you have to say.

8

Hi KevinTMC,

Most of the forum lists include the manufacturers that are available at each store that I would consider to be a “possibility” but these are always on a “mattress by mattress” basis and subject to the guidelines in post #13 here that talk about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase. The manufacturers I list are the ones where your odds are higher of being able to find out the type and quality of the materials in their mattresses (see this article) which is a key part of making an informed buying decision.

The name of the mattress really doesn’t matter because outside of careful testing for PPP … a mattress is only as good as the quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label. As you can also see in the guidelines here … I would avoid the major brands completely along with any mattress where the retailer or manufacturer aren’t able to provide you with the type and quality of the materials in any mattress you are considering. Without knowing the quality of the materials that are inside a mattress … there is no way to know whether a mattress has any weak links or make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses. The Athens, GA list includes many options where your odds are much higher of being able to find out what you need to know but again … if you can’t … then I would pass the mattress by.

Any salesperson that tells you that a mattress is “good quality” and doesn’t know what is inside it is just telling you a “story” that probably isn’t accurate. Most of the major manufacturers also sell the same mattress under many different names to prevent consumers from comparison shopping and this is just one of the many issues that are common in the mainstream industry that make buying a good quality/value mattress very difficult unless you know where to go and what to look for (see post #404 here and post #12 here and post #4 here for a few examples of the current state of the industry). As sad as it is … if you have spent an hour or two reading the tutorial post then it’s very likely that you will know more meaningful information about mattresses than most of the salespeople in the mainstream industry that sell them.

When you are considering which stores to visit I would also make some preliminary calls to find out whether they have any mattresses on their floor that will fit your criteria and also make sure that they are willing and able to provide you with the information you need before you go there so you can narrow down your options before you take the time to visit them.

If you follow the steps in the tutorial post one at a time without missing any then you will have the best possible chance of purchasing a mattress that is a good match for you in terms of PPP, uses good quality and durable materials, and is good value relative to the other options that are available to you.

Phoenix

9

Hi KevinTMC,
I thought it may be of interest to you that unless you take the exact mattress you try in the store you are not getting the one you tried…think about that for one second! You are not going to get one that feels exactly like the one you tried - The one on display is usually much softer than what you will get. It is sometimes an older model no longer produced.
I wish you the best with the decision.
Jeff

10

Hello, Phoenix, I’m back again. (Hey…nice website upgrade!) I hope I have a less hare-brained scheme this time. I certainly feel a lot less tortured about it.

I was never comfortable with any of my options in the end–not in August when I was shopping, and not when I picked up the search again in October. Even if I wasn’t always sure I agreed with/liked your advice, you gave me enough pause to hold me back from making decisions that would have likely been highly regrettable, and I am grateful for that.

This week, I learned about Tuft & Needle, and I very much liked everything I read about them. Quality materials, an appealing company philosophy, a foam bed that seems ideal for people who weren’t entirely sure about making the jump from innerspring to regular memory foam, only one model to choose from (ideal for us min-maxing ditherers!), a return policy that’s truly no-risk…I think this is a good fit for us, and it’s the first online option that I’ve been willing to give a try.

There is perhaps one concern. You’ve been recommending a density of 2.0 in the support layer for heavier people, and Tuft & Needle’s is about 1.8. I’m not sure how their polyfoam in that layer may differ from others’ (I understand the foam in their comfort layer is distinctive), and I’m not sure how worrisome you would consider this particular density in my situation (I’m down to 270 and maintaining it well; my spouse weighs a bit more). The person I spoke to at T&N today didn’t seem to think it an issue at all, though, as their stated weight capacity is a whopping 1000 lbs. Surely they wouldn’t warrant their mattress for ten years, non-prorated, for up to a 1000-pound load if it wouldn’t even be likely to last five years carrying a load under 600?

I think I’m ready to pull the trigger on this one (though I will seriously consider any last-minute advice). Then I can start shopping for a frame/platform, mattress protector, and new sheets and pillows (I think I’ve seen recommendations for at least some of those items in my browsing this week…though if you’ve got links close to hand that would be helpful).

Thank you again, Phoenix, for all your advice and warnings. Even if this latest idea of mine doesn’t strike you as the ideal choice in my situation, surely I’m still in a far better place than I was earlier in this thread, months (too many months of uncomfortable sleep!) ago.

Thank you also for arranging the forum bonuses with merchants like T&N. A 60-day trial instead of just 30 should put my mind even more at ease. (For once.)

11

Hi KevinTMC,

There is more about the three most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here.

The first part is comfort and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) and this is all about how well you will sleep on a mattress. This is the part where the Tuft & Needle could certainly be a suitable choice for higher weights because it’s in a firmer range and because of the design of the mattress you certainly wouldn’t be bottoming out on the mattress so it would “hold” your weight. This is where the trial period and return policy would be important so you can assess whether the mattress is suitable for you based on your actual sleeping experience.

The second is durability and the useful life of a mattress and this is all about the durability of the materials inside a mattress and how long you will sleep well before foam softening leads to crossing the thresholds between sleeping well on a mattress to sleeping OK to tolerating a mattress to finally deciding to replace it. With lower density materials you would cross these thresholds faster than you would with higher density materials.

Mattress warranties only cover defects in the materials and they don’t cover the gradual (or more rapid in the case of lower quality comfort layers) loss of comfort and support that comes from foam softening that is the main reason that most people will need to replace their mattress. In other words warranties have little to do with the durability or useful life of a mattress or how long it will be before you need to buy a new mattress. If there is an actual defect in the material it will usually show up early in the life of the mattress. There is also more about mattress warranties in post #174 here and there is more about the many variables that can affect the durability and useful life of a mattress relative to different people in post #4 here.

Knowing the quality/density and durability of the materials in a mattress is a much more reliable way to assess the durability and useful life of a mattress than the length of a warranty.

You can also see some comments about the Tuft and Needle (and some of the other “one choice fits all” mattresses) relative to higher weight ranges in post #3 here that would apply here as well.

While there is no way to quantify how long any mattress will last for any particular person, if a mattress is well inside a suitable comfort/support range and isn’t close to the edge of being too soft when it is new and meets the minimum quality specs that are suggested in the guidelines here for your weight range then it would be reasonable to expect a useful lifetime in the range of 7 - 10 years and with a slightly lower density support core relative to your higher weight it would probably still be close to this range even though it may be a little less so it would be prudent to reduce your expectations slightly and if the mattress lasts you longer than this I would consider it to be “bonus time”.

Having said all that … the Tuft & Needle is also in a lower budget range where there are always some tradeoffs involved and while the base foam is a little lower density than I would normally suggest in your weight range … it’s not far off the minimum guidelines and it would certainly be a more durable choice than most other mattresses in its budget range. Since “value” is always relative to how a mattress compares to any other “finalists” you are considering … I would still consider the Tuft & Needle to be a good quality/value choice compared to most other mattresses in its budget range and to find a mattress that is more durable you may need to increase your budget.

There is more about the different types of support systems that would normally be suitable for different types of mattresses in post #1 here.

There is more about the different types of mattress protectors and the pros and cons of each of them in post #89 here.

Post #7 and the other topics it links to should be helpful with choosing sheets.

The pillow topic here and the other topics it links to should be helpful with choosing a pillow.

Hope this all helps :slight_smile:

Phoenix

12

The Tuft & Needle does promise to suit us well in many respects, and I’ve concluded that the trade-offs involved are ones I’m comfortable with. I will be much happier staying in this price range, even if it means lowering my expectations regarding life expectancy a bit…and heck, even if the T&N only lasted me three years, it would still come out a nice bargain compared to the Tempur-Pedics I was looking at.

So there it is: I’ve placed my order, and will now investigate your helpful links as I shop for accoutrements. (It’s actually kind of nice that it will be at least a week before the mattress arrives…a little time to get everything else sorted out is welcome.)

Thank you once again for all the helpful info. I’ve thrown a few bucks in the tip jar by way of gratitude…it’s not much, but I feel each of us who have been helped should do at least a little something to help keep the site going.

13

Hi KevinTMC,

If you are comfortable with the tradeoffs involved then I think you made a very good choice … and congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback when you receive it.

Thank you for the kind words and for the donation as well … I appreciate them!

Phoenix

14

We’ve been sleeping on the new mattress for about a week and a half now, and are quite pleased overall. It’s pretty firm, but still softer and comfier than our old mattress…which is the feel I was after. The first few nights, I found myself half-waking and changing position a lot; now that I’m getting used to it, I’m sleeping longer and more peacefully on my side, which was harder to manage on the old mattress. (I don’t always like having to resort to turning over onto my stomach.)

It’s the time of year for allergies, and thus for more snoring from my wife, so we decided to experiment with elevating her a bit with a bed wedge. It seems to be helping a bit, and she’s able to sleep fairly well on it, though it’s probably not something she’ll be wanting to use all the time when she’s not congested.

We got new bedding and pillows as well. I wound up purchasing some pillows at Target that had been mentioned on another thread here (the Aller-Ease Down Alternative Organic Pillow). I’m sleeping on two of them, in place of the old disintegrating foam contour pillow and flat synthetic-fill pillow I’d been using before, and that’s working pretty well. I’m intrigued by the Biogreen Trillow that you mentioned on the pillow thread…that’d be rather a splurge for me, but perhaps I’ll give it (or something similar) a try sometime.

For a platform, I bought this metal frame on Amazon: Amazon.com. It’s nothing fancy but seems solid enough, is a decent height, and has given us no problems so far. It is, however, somehow an inch or two narrower than the mattress…and that leads me to my one area of concern: edge support.

The old innerspring mattress was rather shot after 15 years, and there was certainly a dip in the middle of the mattress…but I never felt like I was going to fall off the edge, even though I often sleep pretty close to the edge. The new mattress is a little less firm on the edge. If the old mattress had grown concave, this mattress sometimes feels like it might be a little convex (especially when I lay down on my back, and especially on my side of the bed). It certainly feels rather different, and gives quite a bit more, when I sit down on the edge to put on my socks in the morning. I"m not sure if the slight narrowness of the frame has anything to do with that.

I’m figuring a lot of this may just be striking me because this is our first foam bed. I remember that when we were looking at Tempur-Pedics in the store, as much as I loved laying on the Rhapsody Breeze, it concerned me that when I sat down on the edge it felt like I was going to slide off. My new Tuft & Needle is certainly firmer than that…and even if it is a little convex or softer at the edge I’m sure I’ll easily get used to it. I just have a tiny worry in the back of my mind about this getting much more significant (maybe not long after the 60-day trial period expires). Is there a good way to tell whether I’m fretting over nothing, short of having an expert take a look at the bed in person somehow? Is there something I should consider adding to, or tweaking about, the bed setup?

I might rotate the mattress when we change the sheets this weekend, and that would at least tell me whether it’s my imagination that the edge softness is more significant in one quadrant of the mattress than others.

15

Hi KevinTMC,

Thanks for taking the time to share your comments and feedback about your new mattress … I appreciate it :slight_smile:

[quote]The new mattress is a little less firm on the edge. If the old mattress had grown concave, this mattress sometimes feels like it might be a little convex (especially when I lay down on my back, and especially on my side of the bed). It certainly feels rather different, and gives quite a bit more, when I sit down on the edge to put on my socks in the morning. I"m not sure if the slight narrowness of the frame has anything to do with that.

I’m figuring a lot of this may just be striking me because this is our first foam bed. I remember that when we were looking at Tempur-Pedics in the store, as much as I loved laying on the Rhapsody Breeze, it concerned me that when I sat down on the edge it felt like I was going to slide off. My new Tuft & Needle is certainly firmer than that…and even if it is a little convex or softer at the edge I’m sure I’ll easily get used to it. I just have a tiny worry in the back of my mind about this getting much more significant (maybe not long after the 60-day trial period expires). Is there a good way to tell whether I’m fretting over nothing, short of having an expert take a look at the bed in person somehow? Is there something I should consider adding to, or tweaking about, the bed setup?

I might rotate the mattress when we change the sheets this weekend, and that would at least tell me whether it’s my imagination that the edge softness is more significant in one quadrant of the mattress than others. [/quote]

Unlike many innerspring mattresses … most foam mattresses don’t have (or need) edge support as long as the firmness of the support core and the thickness of the comfort layers are suitable for your body weight but all foam mattresses will feel a little softer and compress more deeply if you sleep with most of your weight on the very outside edges of the mattress or if you sit on the edge of the mattress because your weight is more concentrated when you are sitting than when you are sleeping on the mattress (see post #33 here). There is an “edge effect” with foam materials because if the outside edges are compressed under weight they are only being “held back” by the material on one side of where you are sitting or sleeping and not the other where there is no material beside the point of compression to distribute the load more evenly.

The convex feeling you are experiencing is also part of adjusting to a new mattress because your frame of reference and what you are used to is a sagging mattress that dips so a flat mattress may feel like it is convex in comparison to what you are used to.

It’s unlikely that your foundation would be causing the lack of edge support although you can test this by putting the mattress on the floor to see if it makes any difference when you are sleeping on the edges. You can also sit a little bit further back when you sit on the side of the mattress to help distribute your weight more evenly and your weight would be more towards the center of the mattress so you would sink in a little less.

In most cases and for most people this is just a matter of getting used to the “feel” of a mattress that is different from what they are used to but for the few people where edge support is a more significant issue and only want a foam mattress then the only real alternative is to choose a mattress that is specifically designed to have firmer edges.

Phoenix

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Thanks much for the reply, Phoenix. It sounds like what I’m experiencing is quite normal and what one would expect when transitioning from an old worn-out innerspring. I’ll just relax and enjoy my new mattress.

What a big lifestyle upgrade this new bed is! And the whole project–including mattress, mattress protector, bed frame & headboard brackets, two new sets of quality cotton sheets, bed skirt, and pillows–came in at under $1100. I could have wound up paying a whole lot more for a lot less…thank you again for this forum, and for your assistance along the way.

17

Hi KevinTMC,

I would agree that it’s “normal” and it normally takes a few weeks for a new mattress to “break in” and to get used to a new type of mattress and sleeping surface than you have been used to (see post #3 here).

I would also agree that you did well :slight_smile:

I hope you have the chance to share an update once you’ve been sleeping on your mattress for a few weeks.

Phoenix