what to do?

[phoenix]

Hi candcsmom,

I tend to agree that sleeping on the Beautiful isn’t likely to get any better. If it’s too soft, then any adjusting, break in, or time isn’t going to help.

Just as an additional consideration however (and this wouldn’t make the mattress more appropriate but your comments indicated that it may also be an issue) … a new pillow may also be necessary with a new mattress where you sink in to a different depth than your previous mattress. A pillow that works to keep your head and neck aligned may not work on a different mattress and a substantial part of good alignment in a sleeping sytem comes from a suitable pillow.

1. Going back to the store where I purchased the Beautiful at my huge 53% markdown price and beg for a similar markdown on either the Pamper or Nature. Unfortunately, all of the close-out sales that were going on at the time in the area at competing retailers are over, so my price-match guarantee game scheme is over. I am hoping they will work with me, but I still have to decide between the two models and whatever it is, I’m stuck with it - you only get ONE comfort exchange. Of course I’ll try them out again and pay particular attention to the feeling of my hips sinking in too far this time, but I am really afraid of choosing the wrong one. I know the Pamper has less transition between the soft layer and the firm core, and therefore is more customizable if I purchase extra layers from a third party. I sort of remember it being too hard without a 2" topper and too soft with it. And I also remember the Nature, having more transitional layers before the core, feeling almost good without a topper and definitely too soft with the 2" topper (but not as soft as the Beautiful which is what led me to the Beautiful over the other two to begin with).

Based on your previous comments I think both the Pamper with some additional layers or the Nature would be more suitable than the Beautiful. The Nature has only 2" of soft latex and then an inch of medium and then the core so this is considerably less soft latex than the Beautiful (which has 3" of 19 and then another 2" of 24 ILD). I think that depending on your body type … both of these would give you some room to adjust although the Pamper more than the Nature.

2. If I purhcase the Pamper with a topper, I was thinking maybe I could purchase another layer from one of the on-line retailers you recommend that is not as ultra-soft as the PLB 2" topper but will provide some softness over the bare Pamper and either put it between or instead of the PLB topper. I would not have all the layers encased but I guess that is ok.

Depending on the price of the PLB topper … you may be better off purchasing the topper and any other layers elsewhere. As you are also mentioning … the PLB topper is very soft and again depending on body type I would tend to go a little firmer (19 ILD or higher) unless you were quite light. If you go in the direction of the Nature it may be good by itself but the Pamper with only an inch of soft latex on top (the old model) will of course need a topper and a couple of additional inches of softer latex may do the trick. A separate cover for the topper would work fine and all the layers don’t need to be in the same cover.

3. Expanding on that thought process, I was wondering what would it feel like if I simply flipped over the Beautiful and purchased a couple of layers on-line to put on-top of the “bottom”. What is your opinion about that? is the bottom too firm - more of a foundation? or could it actually be slept on? and if so, what type of firmness (i.e. med and then a soft) layer would be suitable on top of it. I believe Kregan1013 tried that??

This isn’t likely to work very well for a couple of reasons. The bottom of the Beautiful would be way too firm for comfortable sleeping, isn’t finished to be conforming, and it would still have some very soft foam in the mattress but they would now be in your support layers and would still not be firm enough to keep you in good alignment. I think you would hav both a potential pressure relief problem and alignment problem. You can see all of Kregan1013’s posts and results with a search on his username (you can just click on this).

4. I could scrap the whole PLB mattress idea for the master bedroom and do an exchange for a good quality but much less expensive mattress to replace that old guest bedroom mattress (Famous Tate would refund me the difference in price). And then I’d be free to really start from square 1 on a new master bedroom mattress. If I went this route then I’d probably look at the Sleep-Ez system which I’ve learned so much about from your site. And I probably go for the all natural, organic latex, 13000 size as I like the extra height of a thick mattress and I’d really talk to the guys to find out what layering is right for me. I’d probably slpit it between each side so that would give even more options to play around with the layers if needed (my husband really doesn’t care - he’s just tired of me being tired all the time!) so I’d probably order in such a way as to give me the most options Then again, he is tired of this whole process and would probably not be too keen on this approach as it would seem to him a never-ending process of revolving layers

If there are no “catches” in the exchange … then this sounds like a good option to me as well … especially if an exchange for another PLB model doesn’t come with the same “value” as your Beautiful purchase.

5. Thinking about the Sleep-ez system, again, gets me thinking again about how could I work with what I already have… which is a great quality all natural latex mattress? Is there someone I can hire to take it apart and recase it -either without the ultrasoft top layer, or substituting one of the soft layers with a more firm layer I buy from an on-line retailer? Is this even a feasible thought process? or the result of a brain not getting enough restful rest?? Are the layers glued and not possible to separate?

The layers are glued and would be difficult to separate. I think you are probably better off to go with a mattress that is designed to be “rearranged” like the SleepEz. Even if you did take apart the layers … you would still be left with either the 2" middle layer or the 3" top layer “wasted” (you’d have to remove one of them) or as you mentioned needing to replace it with something firmer. Removing the middle layer would leave you with pretty much the same mattress as the Pamper with a 2" topper and you’d still have to buy a new cover. I don’t think it would make economic sense.

6. What is all this I’m reading about new specs for the Nature (or is it for all of the PLB models)? something about gel infusion? and how would that change the feel of things? I would hate it to feel like the gel-infused memory foam mattresses now everywhere. I know that is why the competing local retailer was closing out the current PLB models… to make room for the new-spec models… and hence the deep discounts. So now even more confusion… if I did go with a Pamper or Nature, I don’t know if I should go for the old specs or the new specs and what the difference really is in term of feel without waiting for one to get on a showroom flloor and try it out? I suppose I could call PLB tomorrow…

The new PLB models use what PLB calls “Active Fusion fast response” talalay and what the manufacturer calls “Talalay GL fast response” (which they used to call Celsion). It has phase change gel in the talalay to help with temperature regulation and it also has a cover with the same material in it. I think it’s a response to some of the gel memory foam popularity and I’m not sure it’s necessary with Talalay latex which is already one of the coolest types of foam although in some circumstances it may help some people. The inch of firm latex on the bottom of the old lineup has also been added to the top layers instead (in most cases to the second layer down except in the pamper where it’s added to the top layer).

They are supposed to feel similar so I don’t know if they changed any of the ILD’s or just changed the material and added the extra thickness to the comfort layer but I would choose the one that worked best based on testing if you have a choice rather than on ILD “theory” which isn’t known for sure. They are also more expensive.

Lastly, I was wondering about the temperature of a latex sleeping surface. I feel like the mattress gets incredibly hot. And that is contributing to the poor nights sleep. Is that typical of all latex mattresses?

In general no … Talalay latex is the coolest of all the foams but there are many factors in the sleeping temperature of a mattress besides just the foams that are on the top layers including how far you sink into the mattress and the protector and sheets you are using. There’s more about sleeping temperature in post #2 here.

Or would a different type of protector help? Currently I’m using the thin waterproof, breathable mattress protector the store gave me which they said was the recommended protector by the manufacturere. They threw it in for free with my deal (a $99 retail price).

Yes … a wool protector like the Dormier would be water resistant instead of waterproof but would breathe better. It may also have a slightly greater effect on the latex below it (depending on how tight and stretchy your current protector is). A stretch knit cotton protector something like this is not waterproof or water resistant (it will absorb the moisture from normal sleeping but not “accidents”) but is very breathable and stretchy. Both of these would be more breathable and cooler than the membrane type protectors which are less breathable (even though they breathe more than a solid vinyl protector which is also waterproof).

Natural cotton, bamboo or bamboo blend, or linen sheets will also be cooler than synthetics.

Phoenix