I am in the market for a new, full latex mattress and after reading through this site for hours am finally starting to narrow down my choices. I went and checked out mattresses at several places yesterday and one that stood out to me was the Ethos Arrowhead 8" here: http://www.davisworld.com/featured-products/ethos-arrowhead-organic-latex-medium-8 . I believe that Ethos is a rebranded Diamond line but I am not too sure how well respected/good quality they are.
This mattress seems to be well made with high quality latex and wool / organic ticking. While my girlfriend and I found it to be very comfortable (we both prefer something around medium firmness), it was pretty expensive (they said they could give us a discount brining the E. King to around 2300 before tax). I tried looking at reviews of this brand and surprisingly I couldn’t really find any, which was a bit disappointing. I’m a little uneasy dropping this much money on something that doesn’t have many reviews. Does anyone know where I can find more reviews/information about this mattress?
I also started looking online and found what appears to be some good mattress offerings from SleepEZ (mainly interested in the 10,000 line). Looks like I can get this one for a little bit cheaper than the Ethos but was concerned about how the quality compared to the Ethos as I would be buying this online without being able to lay on it first. Also, I’m not quite sure how the firmness would compare versus the Ethos (I’m assuming if I were to go this route I would just go for SleepEZ’s recommendation on the layering for what they consider to be medium firmness). One other thing that concerns me is that I’ve seen some SleepEZ reviews which said that the two halves of the layers could sometimes come apart if you toss and turn at night, resulting in a noticeable seam down the middle of the mattress. Is that a legitimate concern and can it be mitigated by using a single top layer rather than a split layer?
[quote]I am in the market for a new, full latex mattress and after reading through this site for hours am finally starting to narrow down my choices. I went and checked out mattresses at several places yesterday and one that stood out to me was the Ethos Arrowhead 8" here: www.davisworld.com/featured-products/eth...ganic-latex-medium-8 . I believe that Ethos is a rebranded Diamond line but I am not too sure how well respected/good quality they are.
This mattress seems to be well made with high quality latex and wool / organic ticking. While my girlfriend and I found it to be very comfortable (we both prefer something around medium firmness), it was pretty expensive (they said they could give us a discount brining the E. King to around 2300 before tax). I tried looking at reviews of this brand and surprisingly I couldn’t really find any, which was a bit disappointing. I’m a little uneasy dropping this much money on something that doesn’t have many reviews. Does anyone know where I can find more reviews/information about this mattress?[/quote]
The best way to make apples to apples comparisons between mattresses is based on their construction and the materials and components inside them. The name of the manufacturer on the label is much less important than the construction and materials in the mattress and mattress reviews will not give you much meaningful information about the quality, value, or suitability of a mattress (see post #13 here about reviews).
As you mentioned the Ethos is one of the brand names manufactured by Diamond Mattress. You can see the details of the mattress here. It uses 8" of 100% natural Talalay latex with 7 lbs of wool in the quilting and it is tufted instead of glued which precompresses the materials to help prevent impressions and keep the layers from shifting. This is a very good quality mattress with no “weak links” in its construction. you can see some comments about Diamond Mattress in post #2 here but in this case you would know all the layers and materials in the mattress so the comments about not being able to find out the specifics of what is in their mattress wouldn’t apply here.
The closest comparison in terms of the amount and type of materials in the SleepEz line would be the SleepEz organic 9000 which also uses 8" of 100% natural Talalay latex in its construction and has a wool quilted cover. The difference is that there is less wool in the quilted cover and it has 3 loose layers (two 3" layers and one 2" layer), has a zip cover so you can access the layers, and has options that you can choose to customize the firmness of the mattress in each layer either before a purchase or by re-arranging or exchanging layers after a purchase as well. There is no tufting because this would prevent you from removing or exchanging the layers.
While the construction is similar and the amount and type of the latex is the same … they would have a different “feel” in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) because of the differences in their construction and design and any differences in the firmness of the latex in each one. Tufting will also be firmer than loose layers of the same firmness levels and more wool will have a different “feel” as well.
SleepEz is one of the members here which means I believe they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of quality, value, and service. A forum search on SleepEz (you can just click this) will also bring up hundreds more posts with more information and feedback about them.
Which one is “better” for you would depend on which of the factors in your personal value equation are most important to you but both of them would make good quality choices and you would be choosing between “good and good” in a final choice between them.
I don’t think this is a realistic concern and you can see my reply to the same question that read the same review you probably did in post #2 here. With a single layer there would not be any transition in the middle from one firmness level to the other (or you would feel it much less if the deeper layers had a different firmness level) but you wouldn’t feel the seam itself in either case.
Would you say then that the tufting would help prolong the life of the mattress since it helps prevent impressions?
Thanks for that link, I hadn’t noticed that model on their website. It looks to be a viable option…I guess I just need to decide whether I want to save a few hundred dollars and go with a mattress that I have never personally felt versus one that is a bit more expensive but I have personally felt and like a lot. The large number of good reviews is valuable but still, buying something with this high of a price tag without being able to personally test it worries me somewhat. The fact that I can exchange layers is somewhat reassuring but unfortunately I am the type of person to obsess over small details and I feel like I would be exchanging layers several times in order to try to get it “perfect” which sounds like a little bit of a hassle. It’s really more a fault of my own personality though
In some cases yes but it would depend on the materials and the reasons for the impression and on the effect they have in terms of PPP for a specific person. In general terms though it would probably be fair to say yes. For example it could allow a softer latex or other foam material to stay more consistent across the surface for longer periods of time and it could also prevent the wool from shifting or showing deep impressions but all impressions in a mattress are not necessarily a “bad” thing … only if they are deep enough to affect you in terms of PPP. It also depends on whether the impressions come from the breakdown of a material or whether they are part of the normal response of a material. Thicker layers of wool for example will generally compress by about 30% of it’s height over time and this is part of the normal response of thicker layers of wool on top of a mattress or a wool topper. In this case body impressions aren’t an indication that the mattress is breaking down or is defective or uncomfortable and is part of how wool layers conform to a body shape. Deeper impressions in foam materials on the other hand are usually undesirable and go hand in hand with foam softening and past a certain point can indicate that the foam is breaking down.
I certainly understand and this is part of the tradeoff that can go with an online purchase vs a local purchase and is one of the factors that are part of each person’s personal value equation and risk tolerance. It’s also why I generally suggest that a local purchase that has a premium in the range of about 20% or so (depending on the person) vs an online purchase would be roughly equivalent in terms of “value” assuming all the other pros and cons are the same and you are making apples to apples comparisons.
In some cases the return privileges of an online purchase can also be an important factor as well … at least for peace of mind
I think I am also going to check out Escondido Mattress before I make a decision. I talked to Randy on the phone and he seemed pretty helpful. One thing I am concerned about with his mattresses is that all of his latex mattresses are only 6" deep. I was wondering if that was thick enough because I was testing some other 6" latex mattress out and I could essentially feel what felt like the top of the foundation as I was getting onto the mattress initially (due to the added force of my hands/knees as I got onto it), indicating it might be a bit too thin. I imagine this might be even worse with a softer, less dense latex core. Is this concern warranted at all or are there any other reasons to avoid a 6" latex mattress?
The only way to know is though your own testing but they also use a flexing box spring as part of the sleeping system instead of a non flexing foundation which changes the feel and performance of the latex. They would be well worth a visit IMO.
Thanks, so I take it there is nothing “objectively” wrong with using only 6" of material? The reason I ask is because most of the latex mattresses I’m seeing are deeper than that, and the few that are 6" generally seem to be marketed as “firm” while I’m looking for something medium-soft.
Randy’s mattresses are also reversible, which seems like a relatively rare feature for a latex mattress (at least the ones I’ve been looking at).
No … there is nothing objectively wrong at all with a 6" double sided mattress (probably with quilting on both sides) on a box spring. It’s just a difference in design from a one sided mattress that uses more progressive layering from the bottom to the top and is on a firm foundation instead. The firmness / softness of this type of sleeping system can be changed with the ILD of the latex, the type and pattern of any quilting, and the design of the box spring.
As you mentioned a double sided mattress will be more durable than a single sided mattress (assuming you flip and rotate it) even with a material as durable as latex. You can read about some of the pros and cons of single sided vs a double sided mattress in posts #2 and #3 here and the posts it links to.
We’ve been sleeping on this mattress for a few months now and overall we’re very happy with it!
I made sure to mention the site with Randy and he gave us two free latex pillows. I started sleeping on them right away and began to notice that my neck would be abnormally sore throughout the day. I switched the pillows out with my standard non-latex pillows and the soreness went away. I’m not entirely sure why; I was thinking it might be that the latex pillows he gave were a little too small (depth wise) and weren’t providing enough support for my neck (I’m a side sleeper mostly).
In any case, the mattress set is extremely comfortable and I have no regrets about the purchase. The medium firmness provides just the right amount of support for a side/back sleeper like myself. The only thing I’m not completely satisfied with is the fact that the mattress does not seem to isolate motion that well. It doesn’t seem any better than the Sealy boxspring I had before, which I was a little disappointed about as that wasn’t all that great to begin with and I was expecting at least a marginal improvement. Is there anything I can do to help mitigate that?
Thanks so much for helping out with the purchase! Your site was very informational and made the process so much easier!
Thanks for the update and feedback … I appreciate it
A softer topper (either latex or memory foam) would likely mitigate it to some degree with “normal” movement (memory foam more than latex because it absorbs more energy) but with larger movement the box spring would still transfer some motion because of the connected springs inside it.
Randy may also have some other ideas or options based on his experience with his mattresses that may also be helpful.
After sleeping on the mattress some more I am starting to think that the mattress might be just slightly too firm for me, as I seem to be shifting to my back a lot / tossing around in my sleep (according to my girlfriend). The motion transfer is still somewhat of an issue as well.
I’m a little apprehensive towards buying a memory foam topper due to the poor heat transfer of the material. Would a softer latex topper be a bad choice for both helping with side sleeping and mitigating some of the motion transfer? We were also looking at something like this: Amazon.com
mainly because of the price but I am a little concerned that something like that would be unsatisfactory in the long run. I don’t mind paying significantly more for a latex topper if I know that it is going to be significantly better for me sleep wise.
After doing some research I am intrigued by the slow response talalay GL toppers. It seems like they would have better motion isolation compared to standard talalay of our mattress (which seems a bit springy), but without some of the major downsides of memory foam like the heat distribution.
I searched a bit on the forum and based on the characteristics of the slow response talalay GL it seems like this might be what we are looking for. I am looking at this one in particular:
which is listed as #24 ILD which seems to be on the medium side, is that correct? I am just hoping that is not too firm for what I need. From what I remember the Escondido mattress here specifications on density for their talalay used a strange scale that I wasn’t familiar with, so I’m not actually sure how dense my “medium” mattress is.
The motion transfer is probably coming mostly from your box spring so adding a softer topper would probably reduce it but not eliminate it completely.
I think you would be better off with a latex topper than a fiber mattress pad for additional pressure relief because it is more resilient and will redistribute your weight across the surface of your body more effectively than a fiber topper (which would just add a little padding under your pressure points). The fiber topper probably wouldn’t help much with motion transfer either.
Slow response materials will be more motion isolating than faster response materials but fast response latex is also very point elastic (meaning it compresses under pressure points with little effect on the surrounding material) so it’s also a good option for this … although not as good as memory foam or slow response latex.
I think that it would be well worth talking with Ken about the Talalay GL slow response as it could be a good compromise. 24 ILD is on the upper end of “soft” so it would likely be softer and more pressure relieving than the medium latex you are currently sleeping on.
It’s also possible that if you still have more motion transfer than you prefer with the topper that you may not need the box spring to provide some additional give under your mattress and you may be able to sleep on the mattress without a flexing box spring and use a non flexing rigid foundation instead which would probably reduce the motion transfer even more (you could test this by sleeping on your mattress and topper on the floor for a few nights).
We ended up going with the Slow Response Talalay GL Topper and solid foundation from mattresses.net. The topper helped only slightly with the motion transfer, and the foundation helped with motion transfer significantly. The foundation firmed things up somewhat but the topper’s softness counteracted that and overall it feels slightly softer than the original mattress + boxspring. Also, the metal frame that came with the mattress + box spring seemed to add to the motion transfer as it flexes somewhat. We got rid of that frame as well.
I think we are finally totally happy in this configuration. If I were to do it again, I would not get a box spring with a latex mattress as it is really bad with motion transfer. Also, box springs tend to squeak a bit. The mattress that Randy provided is definitely high quality and reversible so I expect it to last a long time, but I just don’t think the box spring is a good choice for it so I’m a little disappointed in that.
Thanks for the update … and it’s good to see that your fine tuning ended up with a sleeping system that is working well for you.
I think your experience and feedback falls in line with what would be expected that there would be “some” improvement with the slow response latex but that changing the foundation to a non flexing support system would make an even bigger difference with motion isolation and that the mattress would be firmer with a firm non flexing foundation but that the topper would make it softer than it was originally.
I can certainly understand this. I think that like most things connected with mattresses there are always tradeoffs involved. Some people may prefer the feel of a thinner latex mattress with a box spring underneath it to add some additional flex under pressure points and would trade the firmer “feel” they preferred for the motion transfer that goes with a box spring. Others like yourself would prefer the additional softness and pressure relief that comes from an softer comfort layer and the better motion isolation of a solid non flexing foundation. If I had to guess there would probably be more in the second group than the first but this is all part of testing a mattress and individual preferences in terms of PPP.
Thanks again for taking the time to let us know how things worked out for you