Where to start in Sioux Falls, South Dakota?

[phoenix]

Hi dbergan,

For me latex isn’t a magic word.

I would completely agree with this. Outside of PPP … the most important part of the “value” of a mattress purchase is durability and assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are “durable enough” for your body type and meet the guidelines here … the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a “better/worse” choice.

There is certainly no “magic” in any particular type of material or mattress design because each person is unique and a mattress that works “perfectly” for one person may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on regardless of which materials or components are inside it or the name of the manufacturer on the label.

Granted, that’s only one latex mattress that we tried. But that was theoretically the best one we could get online, and the one that we could customize to our firmness preferences

There is no such thing as “the best mattress” in general terms … only a mattress that is “best” for a particular person based on "comfort and PPP (how well you sleep), the quality and durability of the materials (how long you sleep well), and all the other parts of each person’s personal value equation that are most important to them. Again … a mattress that would be the “best value” for one person may not even be worth considering for someone else.

For me, and I’ll emphasize that I’m only speaking for my own situation (since you pounced on my last post for writing in a more general sense), the two things I want to know are comfort (PPP) and durability. I want a great night’s sleep, and want that experience for as long as possible. Sure there are fanboys who want latex for the sake of latex. There are people who think “natural” or “organic” products are somehow inherently better than artificial ones. There are people who think SomniGel is water in a gel state. Yes, everyone has their own personal value matrix when it comes to buying products. However, I don’t think that any sane person would ignore my two criteria. They can add to it, but not subtract from it.

As you probably know from your reading here I would also agree with you that “comfort” and PPP and durability are the two most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase. One of the most frequent links that I use in my replies on the forum is this one …

There is more about the 3 most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase to “fine tune” a mattress or the exchange/return options that are available to you).

I am also not a big fan of “fanboys” since the combination of materials or the type of mattress that one person may prefer can be very different from other people’s preferences

Latex sometimes means more durable. Latex sometimes means more supportive. Latex sometimes means more comfortable. Latex sometimes means more expensive. Latex sometimes means better value. You claim that “in general” latex is all of these. But isn’t it possible that some kinds of high quality poly could win in all these areas? I’m looking at data and charts that Chad provided me. It straight-up compares his materials to latex in the support/comfort/durability metrics and the results are convincing (to me) that he is using high quality materials when benchmarked against latex.

Yes ,… it’s absolutely possible that any combination of materials and components could meet all the criteria that are important for any particular person including comfort and PPP, durability, and all the other parts of their personal value equation that are most important to them. This is perhaps one of the most important “messages” that I write about every day to help people understand that a mattress that is “best for them” may be completely different from a mattress that is “best for someone else”.

I don’t make any claims when it comes to comfort or PPP or the “value” of any mattress purchase or material and I specifically avoid making any specific recommendations about mattresses or materials because the goal of this site has always been to help educate consumers about “how” to choose not “what” to choose. There are many people that like latex or memory foam or innersprings or any other type of mattress or materials and there are also many other people that don’t as well. This is all about individual preferences. Even the many replies to you in this topic could have made all of this very clear.

Sure, it was unfortunate that BBD was using the term “synthetic latex” improperly. And it would have been nice if BBD made it easier to get the information about their materials. But I now understand Chad’s motives for secrecy, given the mattress factory climate here in Sioux Falls. (Chad and I had similar entrepreneurial experiences… leaving a bigger company to start our own when certain promises weren’t kept. I feel his secrecy/transparency dilemma often.)

IMO … there is no legitimate reason for withholding the information from your customers that they need to make an informed choice or misrepresenting the materials that you are using in your mattress. While you may understand or sympathize with his reasons … the fact remains that his customers are buying what they believe is latex when it isn’t and this is really no different from the tactics that are used by the major manufacturers (such as selling their mattresses based on “proprietary naming conventions” and making it impossible to make meaningful comparisons between mattresses) which has led to the reputation of the mainstream mattress industry being somewhat similar to buying a used car (see post #12 here).

As I mentioned earlier … any knowledgeable manufacturer could “reverse engineer” their mattresses if they wished to but there would be little point. There really aren’t as many “secrets” in this industry as you may believe there are.

NOTE ADDED: I have talked with Chad and have confirmed that none of the materials in any of the Beds by Design mattresses are either synthetic or natural latex and they are versions of polyfoam. Some of the materials are high performance polyfoams that are certainly a good quality material and have many of the properties of latex but are less costly than “real” latex (synthetic or natural).

And, by the way, Phoenix, if you’re all about transparency, why don’t you use your real name on your website? Probably for similar reasons as Chad’s secrecy, when you think about it.

Transparency and privacy are two completely different issues. You aren’t purchasing me, my services, or this website

I would hope it would be obvious why on a site like this that has hundreds of thousands of people seeking advice or information I would keep my identity private and who I am isn’t nearly as important as the information that is on the site and is available to the many thousands of people who come here. You can read more about the the reasons I started the site in post #404 here and some of the history behind it in post #4 here. While there are many hundreds and perhaps thousands of people in the industry who know who I am … to you and to the forum members here I am Phoenix and my private identity isn’t something that you “need to know” or that would be relevant to the information that is provided here.

The goal of this site is not about personality but about providing a source of accurate and meaningful information to the degree possible, helping to change the direction of this industry, and giving people the tools that any information can be validated for themselves. The last thing I would want is to be an information “bottleneck”. The people who “need to know” such as the business members of this site and many others throughout the industry that I talk with know who I am and how to reach me at any time. As you may imagine … every day I receive many requests for personal replies or consulting which of course aren’t possible when you work 12 - 16 hours every day 7 days a week on a project such as this and I redirect them to the forum so that the information in the forum can continue to grow, the forum can become a more valuable resource … and I don’t have to answer similar questions many times (I can just link to where they are already answered).

To make me an issue rather than the information on this site and the means to validate it would only lead to a focus on the “person” instead of the “information” and the loss of control of my own home phone number and family environment (I work from home). I prefer to have control over who I speak with in person.

Phoenix