I let Neil know I’d like to cancel the order and do more research. I have to get the dog bed they gave me back there and I feel uncomfortable about having to go in. I wish I would have done a lot more research…
They believe it will last longer than natural or blended latex and that’s why they warranty it for so long. I guess my issue is the cost is in the upper tier of beds at CK who says they use natural latex. Their warranty isn’t as long however the research I’ve done shows it lasting longer than even the best poly.
Fair enough. For me latex isn’t a magic word. I went out of my way to order a $4700 latex mattress from Reverie and wait 5 weeks for it to be delivered only to be sorely disappointed. The first night, my wife could hardly sleep and wanted to go downstairs to our 10-year-old junk-brand spring+pillowtop mattress. After waiting 5 weeks, and convincing myself that I had purchased the best mattress I possibly could, I really wanted the Reverie mattress to work. Furthermore, I was (and still am) infatuated with the concept of a customizable core that I could fine-tune to my own spinal cord and neck-related issues. (I’m a huge DIY customizer type of person.) However, despite spending over 5 hours rearranging the latex cores to find something comfortable for us, I could only make it marginally better. Neither my wife nor I have had a good week of sleep. It’s too firm. It’s too thin.
Granted, that’s only one latex mattress that we tried. But that was theoretically the best one we could get online, and the one that we could customize to our firmness preferences. Since we don’t have a store that sells all-latex mattresses in Sioux Falls, trying others would require waiting 4-5 weeks apiece or spending a weekend in Omaha or the Cities.
For me, and I’ll emphasize that I’m only speaking for my own situation (since you pounced on my last post for writing in a more general sense), the two things I want to know are comfort (PPP) and durability. I want a great night’s sleep, and want that experience for as long as possible. Sure there are fanboys who want latex for the sake of latex. There are people who think “natural” or “organic” products are somehow inherently better than artificial ones. There are people who think SomniGel is water in a gel state. Yes, everyone has their own personal value matrix when it comes to buying products. However, I don’t think that any sane person would ignore my two criteria. They can add to it, but not subtract from it.
Latex sometimes means more durable. Latex sometimes means more supportive. Latex sometimes means more comfortable. Latex sometimes means more expensive. Latex sometimes means better value. You claim that “in general” latex is all of these. But isn’t it possible that some kinds of high quality poly could win in all these areas? I’m looking at data and charts that Chad provided me. It straight-up compares his materials to latex in the support/comfort/durability metrics and the results are convincing (to me) that he is using high quality materials when benchmarked against latex.
Sure, it was unfortunate that BBD was using the term “synthetic latex” improperly. And it would have been nice if BBD made it easier to get the information about their materials. But I now understand Chad’s motives for secrecy, given the mattress factory climate here in Sioux Falls. (Chad and I had similar entrepreneurial experiences… leaving a bigger company to start our own when certain promises weren’t kept. I feel his secrecy/transparency dilemma often.)
And, by the way, Phoenix, if you’re all about transparency, why don’t you use your real name on your website? Probably for similar reasons as Chad’s secrecy, when you think about it.
Thanks again for all your help, Phoenix. I wish you the best of luck finding the right mattress, Quickstrike.
Kind regards,
David
Hi Quickstrike,
As I mentioned in an earlier reply in this topic … I would keep in mind that the length of a mattress warranty has very little to do with the durability or useful life of a mattress or more importantly how long it may be before you need to replace it. Warranties only cover defects in a mattress and not the gradual (or rapid in the case of lower quality materials) loss of comfort and support that is the main reason people will need to replace their mattress. There is more about mattress warranties in post #174 here. Warranties that are longer than about 10 years or so are usually more about marketing than anything else.
Phoenix
Ok so my best bet is to go to CK and ask the important questions? Would you take BBd off your list? I really don’t want to order online if possible.
Hi dbergan,
I would completely agree with this. Outside of PPP … the most important part of the “value” of a mattress purchase is durability and assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are “durable enough” for your body type and meet the guidelines here … the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a “better/worse” choice.
There is certainly no “magic” in any particular type of material or mattress design because each person is unique and a mattress that works “perfectly” for one person may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on regardless of which materials or components are inside it or the name of the manufacturer on the label.
There is no such thing as “the best mattress” in general terms … only a mattress that is “best” for a particular person based on "comfort and PPP (how well you sleep), the quality and durability of the materials (how long you sleep well), and all the other parts of each person’s personal value equation that are most important to them. Again … a mattress that would be the “best value” for one person may not even be worth considering for someone else.
As you probably know from your reading here I would also agree with you that “comfort” and PPP and durability are the two most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase. One of the most frequent links that I use in my replies on the forum is this one …
I am also not a big fan of “fanboys” since the combination of materials or the type of mattress that one person may prefer can be very different from other people’s preferences 
Yes ,… it’s absolutely possible that any combination of materials and components could meet all the criteria that are important for any particular person including comfort and PPP, durability, and all the other parts of their personal value equation that are most important to them. This is perhaps one of the most important “messages” that I write about every day to help people understand that a mattress that is “best for them” may be completely different from a mattress that is “best for someone else”.
I don’t make any claims when it comes to comfort or PPP or the “value” of any mattress purchase or material and I specifically avoid making any specific recommendations about mattresses or materials because the goal of this site has always been to help educate consumers about “how” to choose not “what” to choose. There are many people that like latex or memory foam or innersprings or any other type of mattress or materials and there are also many other people that don’t as well. This is all about individual preferences. Even the many replies to you in this topic could have made all of this very clear.
IMO … there is no legitimate reason for withholding the information from your customers that they need to make an informed choice or misrepresenting the materials that you are using in your mattress. While you may understand or sympathize with his reasons … the fact remains that his customers are buying what they believe is latex when it isn’t and this is really no different from the tactics that are used by the major manufacturers (such as selling their mattresses based on “proprietary naming conventions” and making it impossible to make meaningful comparisons between mattresses) which has led to the reputation of the mainstream mattress industry being somewhat similar to buying a used car (see post #12 here).
As I mentioned earlier … any knowledgeable manufacturer could “reverse engineer” their mattresses if they wished to but there would be little point. There really aren’t as many “secrets” in this industry as you may believe there are.
NOTE ADDED: I have talked with Chad and have confirmed that none of the materials in any of the Beds by Design mattresses are either synthetic or natural latex and they are versions of polyfoam. Some of the materials are high performance polyfoams that are certainly a good quality material and have many of the properties of latex but are less costly than “real” latex (synthetic or natural).
Transparency and privacy are two completely different issues. You aren’t purchasing me, my services, or this website
I would hope it would be obvious why on a site like this that has hundreds of thousands of people seeking advice or information I would keep my identity private and who I am isn’t nearly as important as the information that is on the site and is available to the many thousands of people who come here. You can read more about the the reasons I started the site in post #404 here and some of the history behind it in post #4 here. While there are many hundreds and perhaps thousands of people in the industry who know who I am … to you and to the forum members here I am Phoenix and my private identity isn’t something that you “need to know” or that would be relevant to the information that is provided here.
The goal of this site is not about personality but about providing a source of accurate and meaningful information to the degree possible, helping to change the direction of this industry, and giving people the tools that any information can be validated for themselves. The last thing I would want is to be an information “bottleneck”. The people who “need to know” such as the business members of this site and many others throughout the industry that I talk with know who I am and how to reach me at any time. As you may imagine … every day I receive many requests for personal replies or consulting which of course aren’t possible when you work 12 - 16 hours every day 7 days a week on a project such as this and I redirect them to the forum so that the information in the forum can continue to grow, the forum can become a more valuable resource … and I don’t have to answer similar questions many times (I can just link to where they are already answered).
To make me an issue rather than the information on this site and the means to validate it would only lead to a focus on the “person” instead of the “information” and the loss of control of my own home phone number and family environment (I work from home). I prefer to have control over who I speak with in person.
Phoenix
Well said dbergan. I assume you’re keeping your mattress? Did you get the adjustable bed and if so which one and do you like it?
Thanks for your thoughts, Phoenix. You do us all a great service and I hope mattress underground continues grow.
Yes, QS, I did decide to stick with my Liberty mattress from BBD. It arrived today at noon and they told me Chad sewed it himself. 
Can’t wait to sleep in it tonight.
I purchased an adjustable base separately a couple weeks ago. Got the Softide 8300 (Ergomotion) adjustable base. Bought it through the seller bettersleepforless on ebay for about $2700 (split king with white glove delivery service). I love it. Highly recommend getting a base with lumbar and neck tilt. There are a few models out there with those features, but the Softide 8300 was the best price.
bettersleepforless was excellent. I had 2 issues come up, and they handled them expertly. Always very quick to reply.
BBD can get the Softide 8300 for you, too. They also have the Rize Revolution and a Leggett & Platt base with lumbar. The Revolution has Bluetooth speakers… but since I already have speakers in my bedroom, I didn’t need to pay for that.
Kind regards,
David
The adjustable I tried was the BBD100. It doesn’t have a lot of features but it would help my neck and back since I watch TV in bed a lot. My mom says her base has done wonders for her sleep apnea and I was hoping would do the same. It wasn’t much more for it and he said I could trade in the box springs for a full refund towards it. I was thinking about skipping the Outlast, and $130 pillows and see what kind of deal he can do on just the mattress and base. We liked the synergy core more but are afraid it won’t last as long as the coil which is also cheaper. I’m tempted to see if my wife likes a bed at CK more though…she’s never been.
Hi dbergan,
Thanks for the kind words … I appreciate it
I’m looking forward to your feedback once you’ve had the chance to sleep on your new mattress.
Congratulations on your new adjustable bed as well.
Phoenix
I think my wife and I will go compare what CK has this weekend…
Hi Quickstrike,
I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback after your visit … and of course what you end up deciding.
Phoenix
Considering buying a mattress online. Is there anywhere to get an adjustable base for around $1000? I dont need many features…
Adjustable beds from the seller I used on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/sch/bettersleepforless/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
Hi Quickstrike,
If I’m not mistaken you are looking for a king size (which would be two twin XL adjustable beds) and in this case it would be unlikely that you will find something under $1000 outside of some of the most basic models such as Pragmatic (see here for example) or the Primo Fleet which probably aren’t the best quality or most reliable choices.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: mattresscompanydirect.com/Primo-International-Adjustable-Bed-with-Wired-Remote_p_229.html
Phoenix
It’s $900 for the entry adjustable at BBD but that’s after discount and I’m not sure what brand. Are there better options in the $1500 range online?
Hi Quickstrike,
I’m not sure what size you are looking at (I’m assuming king size?) and I don’t keep a record of all the prices for adjustable beds that are available at the hundreds of retailers that sell them either locally or online but there is more information about choosing an adjustable bed in post #3 here and the main adjustable bed topic that it links to that can help you choose an adjustable bed based on price vs features comparisons and also includes some retailers that you can use as good sources of information about the features of the adjustable beds they carry and as pricing references as well (in post #6 in the main adjustable bed topic). Of course there are many other sources as well and prices can change on a regular basis so I would also include some internet searching in your research and I would also keep in mind that online advertised prices are often price controlled so make sure you call the stores you are considering to find out their best prices rather than just looking at the prices that are listed on websites.
You would certainly have many more reasonable options available in a budget range of under $1500 than you would in a budget range of under $1000.
Phoenix
Thanks for all the info. Looks like I can get a Reverie 5d for $1099. That and a BME for about 2K…still not sold on buying online though despite a huge savings.
Hi Quickstrike,
I can certainly understand the hesitancy and there are many others that share your feelings about purchasing online as well.
The biggest disadvantage of course is that you aren’t able to test the mattress in person before you purchase it. Online “simplified choice” mattresses with multiple firmness choices such as the BME will cover a larger part of the bell curve that will be suitable for more people than single firmness choices but you will generally find that any one of these mattresses will be the “best” match (in their budget range) for a relatively small percentage of the population, a “good” match for a larger percentage, and an “OK” match for a larger percentage yet. While the only reliable way to know which group you fit in will be based on your actual sleeping experience when you receive the mattress … for those where the mattress isn’t a “good enough” match (either too firm, too soft, or where you experience “symptoms” when you sleep on the mattress) then they all have a trial period with a great return policy that lets you test the mattress in your bedroom instead of a showroom and then if your experience indicates that it wasn’t a suitable choice you can start all over again with choosing another mattress with little risk outside of the time you spent trying the mattress or returning/donating it.
While your own careful testing or personal experience is the most reliable way to know whether a mattress is a good “match” for you in terms of comfort and PPP … when you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.
Phoenix
After speaking with Chad at BBD and lying on some more beds. We decided on the firmer version of the one we originally picked. We are going to upgrade to the adjustable base later. Pretty happy with the decision we made and can’t wait to get it next week. Thank you for all your help and all you do for this site.