even if i could substitute a different manufacturers latex mattress to approximate this, would having different covers affect the feel? in what ways?thanks
Hi richardb,
Yes it would. While this can be a complex subject and there are whole companies that make many different mattress tickings that are designed to change the way a mattress feels and performs ⌠in basic terms a thinner more elastic cover (stretch knit) will allow you to feel more of the layers below it while thicker less elastic or quilted covers will add their own characteristics and feel to the layers below them and reduce the amount you would sink in to the foam layers. This can be a more desirable or less desirable options depending on whether you want some of the benefits of certain cover or quilting materials (such as the breathability of wool quilting or the hand feel or lower resiliency of a thin layer of soft polyfoam) or whether you want the âfeelâ of the layers below the cover to come through as much as possible.
So each different type of cover can certainly affect both the performance and the price of the mattress but particularly the comfort layers on the top. In the most basic and predictable terms ⌠then a thin stretch knit cover can allow the feel of latex layers to âcome throughâ more than thicker or quilted covers.
Phoenix
how would a cover, made of natural wool and organic cotton affect the feel of the dunlop mattress then the south bay covers - the inner one was made of ?? and outer one made of ??. ? is because I donât know.
Also How do you define:
- soft
- medium soft
- medium
- medium firm
5 firm
in a natural dunlop.
Now that mattress gave no densities of its dunlop latex layers. can you find out for me what they were. thanks in advance for this.
In brief what questions should I put to the mattress manufacturer that should clearify to them that I need the same specs as that mattress. So there is no room for confusion.
Hi richardb,
Iâm not familiar with the specifics of either the inner (fire barrier) or outer Southbay cover so I canât compare it but in general terms a mattress cover that has quilted wool will tend to feel a little firmer and slightly reduce the amount you sink into soft latex than an unquilted stretch knit cover.
I think each person has their own definitions and perceptions of âwordâ ratings and there are many cases of where one manufacturers rating will be different than another. I would tend to make comparisons more on density or on ILD rather than contribute more to the confusion of all the different âratingsâ that are used or perceived differently by different people. I donât think that any rating system that uses words will seem accurate to all people anyway but having said that ⌠this article has my contribution to the âword rating gameâ ⌠for better or for worse 
Bear in mind too that ILD is never exact and what feels firm or soft depends on both the person and on some of the other specs of the material besides just ILD (such as compression modulus, layer thickness, and temperature sensitivity).
I would call the manufacturer to see if they will provide you with this information. If they wonât provide it to you (accurately) then they wouldnât to me either. I have not found Southbay particularly helpful or even polite when I have talked with them on the phone and Iâm not sure they would even be happy to provide this information.
You would first need to get the accurate specs from Southbay (and would need to trust the information they gave you) that another manufacturer could âmatchâ and these would need to be the same specs (type of latex, layer thicknesses, and ILD or density) that a manufacturer of a mattress had available to put in a mattress. There would be some variation between them at the best of times because of the inaccuracy of softness or ILD information in general and because of the variances in the material. If you have this ⌠I would then ask the manufacturer you were working with if they believed they could exactly duplicate the mattress you are looking to duplicate to the degree of accuracy that you are looking for. I think their answer would be no (I doubt they would want to eve take the risk of âguaranteeingâ or even implying that their mattress wold match your memory of the Southbay to the level of detail you are looking for).
I think that you may be putting too fine a point on duplicating something down to the last detail and while I understand why you want to ⌠I donât think this is possible. I donât think that most manufacturers who understand the variances between even the same materials would even want to try to be this âexactâ.
Phoenix
Not getting much help with densities then.
as for ILDS the mattress had
19 ILD
24 ILD
32 ILD
but that is impossible since natural dunlop has a range of ILD not a specific ILD
can you explain this?
Hi richardb,
Mattress manufacturers will often use a certain number which is an âaverageâ across the surface of the layer rather than a range in their descriptions. the idea is to give a sense of the relative firmness of a layer rather than an exact specification (which isnât really possible).
It also appears to me that these ILDâs donât seem to match the experience of people who have tried the mattress who seem to think itâs firmer than the ILDâs would indicate so I donât know how accurate they are. They seem more like Talalay ILDâs to me than Dunlop ILDâs.
Phoenix
running in circles. No real practical help. the more questions I ask and more answers I get the more questions pop up. This is not going to end ever. Mattress buying whether latex or anything should not be this confusing unless it is deliberately made so. I may as well just buy a regular spring mattress from a retail store. just like millions of people are doing in this country.
Hi richardb,
I completely agree with this ⌠and if I was in your shoes I would not be trying to do something (match another mattress exactly) that may not be possible and I would start at the beginning and work with a manufacturer or retailer that can build or sell you a mattress that may have have differences in design from the mattress you are trying to match but will do as well or better in terms of PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences).
IMO ⌠you are taking an approach that is very unlikely to be successful to the degree of specificity you are looking for and I would start all over again with a different, easier, and more effective approach to finding your âperfectâ mattress. There are many roads to Rome (your perfect mattress) and I would take one of the "otherâ ones rather than trying to re-create a mattress where you are very unlikely to get the information you need to duplicate it and even if you did the exact same materials may not even be available to you.
My most âpracticalâ advice is to start at the beginning with post #1 here and go one step at a time.
Phoenix
well I found someone who makes dunlop mattress
But after very bad experience from previous buyer, I am leery.
this is what they told me;
will make a 10" latex mattress with a quilted cover made out organic cotton and wool filler
said they have a 8" latex mattress with 2 inch soft upper layer and 6 inch medium-firm layer
and they will add a third layer of a 2" firm density on the bottom of it to make 10" latex mattress.
now is 2 inch soft layer on 6 inch medium-firm layer over 2 inch firm latex suitable for me as a 100 percent side sleeper? I only like soft feeling mattress with pressure relief and spinal alignment.
they are asking for my credit card information.
should I ask for densities or ILDS ranges or both of his soft, medium-firm, firm dunlop latex and can you tell me whether that falls into soft, medium-firm, firm feel of the dunlop latex?
how thick should my soft layer be as i prefer a soft mattress but with support
how thick the medium-firm and firm layer be?
i wonder for a 11 inch latex mattress - what configuration/density latex be best for each layer of latex and how thick each layer should be then?
Hi Richardb,
You are asking me to make decisions for you that only you can make. I have no idea of the reputation or integrity of the manufacturer you are talking about or even who they are so you will need to trust your own judgement on this. Hopefully it is not the same one that we talked about preciously in your PMâs and you have learned not to deal with people you have serious doubts about. You will also need to decide whether you trust what they are telling you. If you have doubts about the person you are working with ⌠I would work with someone else.
The design of a mattress is based on the materials and components they have available and there is no formula that can choose the specific layering or design of a mattress out of all the thousands of possibilities available in the market that has any certainty of matching a specific individualâs needs and preferences. There are just too many variables involved to do this. There is lot of information about the theory behind layering and mattresses section of the site so you can work with a manufacturer or retailer more effectively but you will need to work with the manufacturer themselves to decide on the specific layering of a mattress that they can make that would suit you best. This way they can help you choose from the options they have available instead of a near infinite number of options that are possible in theory. Each manufacturer may have different materials available or make different suggestions that they believe would suit you best and use different combinations of materials to get to a similar result.
You have asked my opinions on many occasions and I advised you against certain directions and in spite of this you decided to go ahead and deal with some very shady characters anyway and then nothing you were hoping to do worked out. I also donât design mattresses for people ⌠only help them eliminate their worst choices and then connect them people who do.
My best suggestion is to work with a reputable manufacturer or retailer that you trust ⌠either locally or online ⌠and then talk to them to decide on which of their options they and you together believe would be most suitable for you. If you do this with several good retailers or manufacturers you will have final choices between âgood and goodâ and then all you have to do is choose between them.
You are asking questions that I just canât answer because the answers are yours to decide. I can help you decide âhowâ to choose but not âwhatâ to choose.
Phoenix
Thank you Phoenix. I send you PM 2 days ago. If you could please read it and reply I will be very grateful.
As for the company that sells to costco I should have listened to you. I trusted them just like costco does. But they turned out to be liars and tried to cheat me.
Hi richardb,
I did receive your PM but as Iâve mentioned to you previously and as you can see in my reply in post #2 here ⌠private messages and emails are usually my last priority (unless they are of a more private nature and not suitable for the forum) and I only get to them when all my other higher priorities are done including replying to forum posts and other priorities that are connected to running and building the website.
In most cases where people PM or email me privately ⌠my reply is a âstandardâ message (which you can see in the linked post) asking them if they wouldnât mind posting their question on the forum.
There is nothing in your PM that wouldnât be appropriate for posting in the forum so I would prefer that you re-posted it here ⌠although I should also tell you that I donât believe I can help you with what you are asking both because I wouldnât have the time to do private research for individual forum members that may only be applicable to them and because what you are asking is a matter for you to decide based on your own best judgement. On numerous occasions I have already given you the criteria I would use to decide whether I would pursue the various options and directions you are going (and have already gone) and asking the same questions in different ways or versions in private communications wonât change the substance of my answers to you.
The generic version of my reply is that if you canât find out the information you need from the people you are dealing with or if you are not comfortable in dealing with them for any reason ⌠I would pass them by
Phoenix
Well I read that you have called mattress makers for other posters so I thought you would kindly do the same for me. That is why I requested you.
Hi richardb,
I have made many calls that were âtriggeredâ by various posts on the forum but they are to find out more general information that would be helpful to a large number of people in the same area or in a similar situation.
The information you were asking me to find out is much more detailed and specific, would require much more time than I have, and would have very limited value to the forum community at large. Itâs also information that you could find out with a phone call for yourself if itâs important for you to know ⌠even though I donât believe the information itself would lead to a practical solution for what you are looking to do. Tracking down specific materials where the specs of the mattress you are trying to duplicate are suspect in the first place and where you may not even be able to find the exact âduplicateâ materials made by the same company in exactly the same density and ILD may not even be possible in practical terms.
Phoenix
Phoenix, I am only trying to find if this is a legit company. Since you are experienced in these matters and mattresses, and I am not, your help would have been of great value to me. Thanks Phoenix.
Hi richardb,
As I mentioned to you in our PMâs ⌠I didnât find any information about them in a quick google search and I have no knowledge of them.
they may be âlegitâ in the sense that they are an actual company but I havenât talked with them and donât know any details about the people behind them or their ethics, integrity, or business practices.
Hereâs what I can tell you. Latex Systems is a legitimate manufacturer of Dunlop latex foam based in Thailand and they make good quality products.
Crismore International appears to be legitimately importing their latex cores into the US based on import records. They also appear to be importing mattress covers from Germany.
To me the people make the company and I would go with your own instincts and the experiences you have when you are dealing with them. Just because they appear to be legitimate doesnât mean they are good at dealing with customer inquiries ⌠especially when it appears they are wholesales and not retailers. If you have any doubts about them that arenât satisfied by the information they give you, especially if you are dealing with them from a distance, I personally would hesitate and be very cautious before buying anything from them. this is not because they are 'bad" ⌠but because the confidence they inspire in you is the most important thing.
I would make your decision about whether or not to do business with them based on your own personal experiences with them.
I personally would tend towards dealing with companies that are more used to dealing with consumers on an individual basis.
Phoenix
Thanks Phoenix. The Mattress factory in ft worth has no soft dunlop latex. I asked the owner and he says he does not even have a 19 ILD dunlop and does not plan on getting any soft latex.
Are there any stores or mattress makers that carry soft/softest dunlop latex in dallas-ft worth? I have been to Savvyrest here and they have no soft dunlop either.
Hi Richardb,
I donât know the specifics of what each manufacturer or retailer carries. I would suggest calling each of them to see what they have available and how they define âsoftâ Dunlop which may be different from each other.
Savvy Rest dealers usually have soft Dunlop although soft Dunlop at one merchant may be different from soft Dunlop at another. I believe that Savvy Rest targets âsoftâ Dunlop as being anything in between 22 and 30 and all of these would feel softer than âsoftâ Talalay.
Phoenix
first of all 22-30 is not soft. second my whole question was who do I call?
Hi richardb,
Soft is what someone believes is soft. Each person can be very different with what they perceive as soft.
This is what Savvy Rest calls soft. Itâs probably in the lower end of the range but Dunlop especially is never a specific ILD anyway.
There is a list of manufacturers and retailers for the Dallas area you could try in post #4 here.
It would be easier to find soft latex in Talalay.
There are also some online options in post #4 here.
Phoenix
Phoenix