Thanks for your update. So the biggest difference in moving to the Plus model seems to be the replacement of the microcoils by continuous pour Dunlop (the donāt list the blend) and a firming up of the edge reinforcement.
Making an entire mattress out of a 65 ILD polyfoam would be incredibly hard and quite uncomfortable, so you would not commonly find that specific foam used in the comfort layers of a mattress.
The choice of using a foam edge reinforcement versus a spring edge reinforcement is one made by the mattress designers, taking into account the feel they are attempting to achieve and the minimization of roll off (high ILD polyfoam will generally feel āharderā on the edge than a pocketed coil reinforcement system), cost, production methodology, familiarity, and shipping methods (pocketed spring units can be easier to roll pack), among other things. Both can perform well.
There are some edge systems using clipped-in springs between a border rod that can be very firm, but manufacturers are constantly walking a line between an edge reinforcement system that prevents roll off (the real reason to have an edge support system) and provides a firmer edge seating surface, and making that system too firm where it become obtrusive when you sleep too close to the edge of the mattress. Too hard of an edge reinforcement system that is made to feel as supportive as a chair will provide a very uncomfortable sleeping surface. Good quality foam edge reinforcement systems can be very durable and comfortable (your opinion notwithstanding), as can ones using coils to the edge.
Ive wondered abouf this myself but I realized, after many hours of reading and video watching that the reason I was able to sit on the edge of my 8 inch Beautyrest pocket coil mattress (metal outside rail) like I did for twenty two years, is that the mattress sat on a box spring so the wood edges of the box spring gave solid support as if sitting on an 8 inch cushion on a chair. You can still get this type of mattress on a box spring. I personally donāt want an edge support that I can sit on because my wife and I sleep on a Queen mattress (Winkbeds softer) and I find myself needing the edge of the mattress to give exactly like the center of the mattress cause I need to be able to sleep right on the very edge sometimes . Im pretty sure that you would have a similar problem with a Hastings.
Buying a mattress can be a bit of a hastle for sure. I wish you luck.
Don
Lol! I read your reply after leaving mine, Iām glad we seem to be on the same page. Of corse now Iām laying here carefully compairing the transition from the inside of the mattress to the edge and I can feel the difference, but I find it ti be a very good transition.
Don
From the FWIW file: Back in the mid-90s, the Beautyrest line generally used two rows of thicker gauge steel springs along the sides (13 gauge was common), with a border rod along the top and the bottom of those springs (their mattresses were two-sided back then). The springs would have been responsible for the edge feeling a bit firmer, with the border rod mostly adding structural integrity. The foundation was the Power Flex, which was a four-fold torsion modular system that flexed a little bit, but not as much as an actual coil box spring.
Everything Iāve read and experienced says that while foam can be durable, it definitely does not provide the same edge experience as having the mattress actually extend to the edge.
Manufacturers doing that says one of two things to me - either their mattress isnāt that great and couldnāt provide good edge support so they fall back on foam, or their mattress is that great but foam is cheaper and theyāre getting away with as much foam as they can. Either one is a valid business decision, but itās extremely offputting.
Thatās all sort of beside the point though. Due to the details of my sleeping situation, I sleep on the edge of the mattress often. If I was willing to sleep on solid hard foam, Iād order that and be done with it.
To me, the whole point of an innerspring mattress is that I can sleep right up to the edge and still get the support I paid for without the edge really buckling under me, as has happened on every foam and foam-edge mattress Iāve tried. Not bothering to put the actual mattress innards all the way to the edge of the mattress makes Winkbeds worthless to me.
Thanks for describing the system I should be looking for. Do you have any mattress suggestions that currently use a border rod system?
This all depends upon the quality of the edge reinforcement system. Just because a system uses springs doesnāt make it durable, and just because a system uses foam doesnāt make it inadequate. Itās not an either/or situation.
While I appreciate your opinion, it isnāt an accurate one, for the reasons (but not limited to) that I listed in my previous reply in this thread.
The very fact that springs are carried out to the edge of a mattress does not guarantee a firm edge system. In fact, there are many, with and without a border rod, that have very poor roll off characteristics. Youād generally need to accompany this with some sort of extra edge reinforcement componentry.
While I understand that this is not a system that you prefer, for most individuals it does provide a very adequate system for the minimization of roll off.
Iām sorry, but that unfortunately would be beyond the scope and point of this forum, as attempting to maintain a listing of all of the innerspring componentry of the products listed within the threads here on the forum, as well as the thousands upon thousands of ever-changing offerings elsewhere, would be too large of a task for one individual to maintain.
Additionally, the use of a border rod does not make a firm edge reinforcement system by itself. Youād generally have to accompany this with various spring inserts, hard foam inserts into the springs themselves, or firmer or specialized springs along the edge (as examples of systems not using foam encasement). It is also becoming more popular for brands to eschew border rods to help allow their products to bend and be usable upon power foundations.
I am literally laying on the very edge of my winkbeds softter mattress at this very moment and I can tell you this (and I weigh 178, you have to know how much a person weighs in theses discussions) and I can just sense that Iām on the very edge because it seems just a tad firmer than the rest of the mattress. This is what I want, because i need for the edge to conform to my body the same as the rest of the mattress and this mattress does this. I could still sit on the side of the bed if i wanted, but after doing way more reseach on mattress building than is reasonable for someone not in the mattress business to do, I have come to realize that the old folks were right in saying that a bed is for sleeping, not sitting, lol. Although my wife and I do sit up and read before bed every night.
Like i said before my 95 beautyrest had metal frame work around it, but it mashed down more than my winkbeds.
That said, if I could spend eight grand on a bed I might try a Vispring. But I think the edge support would still match the rest of the mattress.
I wonder if all this edge support talk came about when companies started stuffing pieces of polyfoam in a bag and calling them a mattress.
Just tried the edge again, still excellent.
Don
Thank you for the welcome Phoenix.I have used the info on your site many times and found it very informative .the winkbed does in fact have what I would call tufted buttoms that my husband and I could feel while laying on our sides.
both of us felt very little difference between the medium and softer version of the winkbeds.We moved on to a luma sleep hybrid that we gave about 60 days with the medium topper and a week on the soft.I thought the medium was comfortable but my husband was waking with lower back pain and hip pain.He is the one with the average BMI.We just returned the luma(excellent customer service) .We ordered a 9 inch medium mattress from sleeponlatex .We also ordered a medium 3 inch topper.We thought the mattress alone offered great support but both thought we could use just a touch of sink so we tried the mattress with the topper last night.The topper made the mattress so firm I had to go sleep on our guest bed(cheap zinus).We will go back to just the mattress tonight and see how it goes.Sleeponlatex has had very responsive customer service.They shipped out the same day
our mattress search has led us to feel we need a Dunlop latex base with a softer top layer for comfortable side sleeping.This whole process requires lots of research a d trial and error
And edge reinforcement systems, in various configurations, have been around for decades. Some people prefer the feel of certain types (foam, springs), and others prefer different levels of firmness (minimizing roll off to feeling like a chair). Mattress companies use various methods to achieve an extra level of support without (hopefully) sabotaging the consistency of the sleep surface.
Iām happy that youāve found the information here useful.
You may be calling these ātuftsā, but as I explained in my earlier reply they are not. Tufting is a very specific process in mattress construction where the mattress is pre-compressed and a cord is run through the entire mattress with a button both on the top and the bottom to hold this cord in place and the tension on the mattress/foams. What you experienced was the circular stitching that is the quilting of a mattress, which generally secures the top few layers of material to the ticking of the mattress. I make the distinction because these are two very different processes and someone reading through your reply might erroneously think that this mattress is tufted, and as this is a process that many people desire, they may end up making a decision on inaccurate information. Of course, none of this takes away that you were sensitive to the feel of the quilting pattern.
With your current mattress, keep the people at Sleep on Latex āin the loopā, and it may be that with your testing you may prefer their softer topper over the medium.
Hi Phoenix or anyone else who has experience with this,ā¦ but Winkbed does not ship to Canada and I really want to try out their mattress! Has anyone somehow gotten around this barrier in Canada or know how? Iāve tried calling services for freight forwarding and itās a confusing mess (maybe iām calling the wrong ones) and seemingly super expensive just to get a mattress here to try. Also would really suck if i had to return it for even more costs! Any advice? Why Winkbed? Why no Canada?!
There seem to be many issues currently making it less practical for mattress companies to ship across borders with all of the additional expenses involved. The average size and weight doesnāt help with the logistics and the costs can make a given product less competitive in another countryās market.
Iām a large guy at 6ā4"/300lbs and recently had the opportunity to try a range of the Winkbeds models and found them all way too soft for me. I know of another member here who purchased one of their firmer models and ended up returning it after coming to the same conclusion. Unless you have had the opportunity to try a given mattress yourself I think making such a purchase across the border is quite a risk considering the potential for a return and its high related expenses.
There are several sources for some quality mattresses within Canada and if I were there Iād strongly consider them before going beyond the border. Some members of this forum as well as some other Canadian manufacturers may be worth your consideration.
Thanks Bill, itās just so hard to know which direction to go when trying to purchase online. Iāve checked out some Canadian brands on your suggestion and came up with Brunswick, Novosbed, Douglas, Logan and Cove etc. But like i said itās so hard to know how truthful online reviews are. There are many sites like Slumber yard, Sleepopolis, Sleep Advisor, Mattress Clarity, Goodmorning etc etc. I feel like they are all to some degree paid off by companies so iām not sure who to trust!
I mean Goodmorning even states that they are owned and operated by the company that used to own Novosbed, Logan and cove etc. And on their site the scores are so heavily in favor of their beds and the direct competitionās beds have notably lower scores.
Were there any āqualityā mattresses from Canada that you were thinking of or did i mention them all?
Iād honestly suggest trying some of the Canadian based members of this forum which you can see listed here. That would include CBH Wood Furniture, Dormeo Organic Beds, MFC, Restmore Bedding, and SnugSleep. Many of the US based members do ship into Canada but as previously mentioned issues and additional costs with border crossing and possible returns may make them less attractive propositions. Sounds like youāve already considered most of the other Canadian based brands which I was familiar with.
Thanks for posting your questions and posting the updated specifications of the MemoryLux mattress.
You can see some comments about the quality/durability of the materials in the Winkbeds in non-members post #3 here in the simplified choice topic along with post #2 here.
That being said, most of the previous posts about Winkbeds was for their original mattresses. Both you and your partner have low BMIās so your risk of having durability problems is less than with higher BMI consumers.
Winkbeds promotes the fact that this is not āViscoā it is more of a new generation foam. Faster recovery, not as temperature-sensitive, etc. Have you asked them what changes are made to go from firm to medium to soft? Are these the āsoftā model, and what is the medium model specs? I am trying to gauge is there is a big difference between the three firmnesses? I am trying to determine if is going to be āsoftā enough for you. Also, are you sure the top quilt layer is 3" ā¦ or ā¦ 2"? As on their website, itās stated that:
As mentioned in some old posts my general concern about the durability of the 2 inches of foam in the quilt, that is more than I generally believe is optimal. The next layers seem to be good quality foam, although they use the trademark for AirCell, Zoned Progression Foam and Atlas Core Foam. I can find the Trademark for Aircell which is owned by Standard Fiber, but the others I have not located trademark detail.
As we did not have many comments on the MemoryLux Iād be interested to hear about your next steps and decisions.
I recently purchased the Winkbeds softer version. My husband (180lb) and I (120lb) are both side sleepers and this is what they recommended to us. It is the most comfortable bed I have ever slept on! I didnāt realize that my shoulder and hip pain was caused by a too firm mattress that made me toss and turn. With the Winkbed I barely move all night and it feels so luxurious and comfortable and get excited to got to bed. We have only had it for a month, so I am unsure about the durability especially since the company has not been around that long and it looks like they may have changed the makeup of the bed since original production. One thing I wanted to add is I contacted the company before making my decision and they told me that the top hypersoft gel infused foam is 1.8 density with 17ILD (not 1.5 that is stated on TMU) The softer has 3" of this gel foam and luxury firm and 2" (along with coil zoning differences). I asked Winkbeds for a spec sheet with details on materials used in my mattress and they said they do not have that to give to customers. I am not sure if they used to use 1.5 and changed, but they assured me that my bed has 1.8 density. I guess I am hoping that the foam is 1.8 and combined with the microcoils underneath will make the mattress last a decent amount of time. We have been rotating it as they recommended and it is on a extremely solid slatted platform. I just love it so much and hope it holds up!
I wanted to add one more thought. One of the main reasons I purchased the Winkbed was because they stated that they used a third party, Carpenter Technical Center, to simulate years of use by using the āconstant force fatigue testā. The results of test showed that the foam would sag less than 2% over 20 years. Does anyone know anything about the legitimacy of this claim? Warranty covers body impressions over 1.5" which is standard, but obviously more than 2% of foam.
Thanks for the information on the Winkbed. Do you still have it and love it?? My husband is about 210. Do you think the softer would be TOO soft for him. Iām 135 so I know for me Iād probably prefer the āmore softā version. Thank you.
