Wits End for Hot Sleeper

Mattress Talk 3) Needs & Personal Preferences
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Wits End

Been on the hunt for the right mattress for over 7 months. Desperate at this point. Became a hot sleeper as I moved into menopause and hot flashes etc. set in. I am female and 140 ish pounds. I have tried Serta Perfect Sleeper Quilted Max and Casper Dream Max. Both too hot underneath, although Casper is comfortable otherwise. I have done a lot of research too and find the majority of mattress have some memory foam in them. That worries me for overheating. Looked at Purple and is only one that doesn’t. There is also latex foam claims cooler but friends say differently. I keep going back to my spare 16 year old Sealy that is sagging a bit which is cooler and doable (not comfy like Casper). Can’t live like this forever with only getting 4 ish good hours a night of sleep. Thanks for suggestions.

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Hi Les!

Welcome to our Mattress Forum. :smiley:

There are definitely no-foam options out there outside of the Purple.

For example, the Naturepedic Chorus (and many of the options available through The Clean Bedroom).

This mattress from Sigma only has foam in the base layer at the bottom of the mattress.

TempFlow and Glacier sleep specialize in cool-sleeping technologies, so they may be worth a look as well.

If you have a chance, I’d recommend testing for yourself! There’s so much more that goes into a sleeping microclimate, as well. If they’re sleeping in heat trapping bedding or pajamas, that’s going to factor in as well, as well as the ventilation of the bedroom, etc.

Is 100% foam free the ultimate preference?

NikkiTMU

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Hey Les,
I’m copy and pasting this from another post (I would link but there’s other stuff there–and this is more pertinent).

With hot sleeping, weirdly it’s not about cooling—it’s about humidity control. This has to do with a fibers ability to absorb and dissipate moisture, and well as airflow through the entire structure.

People who live in humid places understand that it’s not the temp that gets you it’s the heat-index which is how hot it feels based on how damp the air is. Basically, 90 degrees and dry, with a little breeze is way more comfortable than 80 and humid with no air movement.

Many mattresses marketed as “cooling” use gels, synthetic foams, or phase change fabrics that may feel cool at first but trap heat and moisture over time, making you feel clammy, which in turn makes you feel hot.

A better approach is choosing breathable, moisture-wicking materials that let air and moisture move freely (think: convection). Talalay latex has excellent airflow (dunlop is good as well, albeit to a slightly lesser degree), while cotton and wool help regulate temperature by keeping you dry, and helping to regulate humidity.

Side note: All foams, even latex, can be sweaty. This is why you want to have them covered with cotton and wool. This creates a layer that can absorb liquid perspiration (the cotton), and vapor (the wool), helping keep you dry. The airflow through the coils and latex is keeping those layers dry.

If possible, avoid waterproof encasements, or allergy covers, as they can trap humidity by the sleeper and make overheating worse. (Mattress pads with polyester fill can make you sweaty too.)

Also, your bedding plays a huge role—skip down or polyester comforters and opt for lightweight wool or cotton instead. Stick to 100% cotton or linen sheets, which allow for better airflow and moisture dissipation, helping you stay drier and more comfortable throughout the night.

Regardless of materials, softer mattresses are also always a bit warmer than firmer beds (just because more of your body is in the bed), and “hybrids” tend to have better airflow and moisture reduction than solid foams.

Lastly, even though they are marketed as “cooling”, I have never felt that bamboo, rayon, tencel, lyocell, or other cellulose product, or silk, are any better than a poly blend for keeping you feeling dry. There may be other opinions on this and sometimes you just have to try it out and see. If you ask me (which you didn’t lol), I would stick to cotton and wool.

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Skip the super high thread count sheets too, I think the tighter weaves might restrict airflow (every little bit counts)

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Thanks for getting back to me. No 100% foam free is not my preference. I will use anything that helps me sleep. Since going through menopause, I have issues with regulating temperature; especially at night. I can handle the top issues with fans, sheets etc. However, underneath me gets very hot; yes it can get pretty humid here in Virginia in summers…running AC too around 70 at night to help. I do have a breathable mattress encasement (no waterproof) and a mattress protector (waterproof with the polyurethane bottom, not crunchy kind though)and use percale cotton sheets. Have to use protector because Casper is still in risk free trial and encasement because of severe dust mite allergy. Also on a Tempur Pedic foundation that is solid. I appreciate the suggestions some look promising however, side sleeper that prefers more medium soft feel with a bit of plush.

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Thanks for getting back to me. I agree that humidity can be a factor. I live in Virginia and it hot and humid. In the summer. My bedroom is also on top floor of a three floor townhouse with heat pump. I can put ac down to 70 to help with this below that gets iffy because heat pumps use outside air and condense it. I have definitely tried cotton percale sheets and cooling throws to help. Have to use mattress encasement not waterproof for severe allergies to dust mites. It was created by Mission Allergy and very breathable. My mattress protector that have to use because Casper Mattress is in risk free trial traps heat I think. Has polyurethane bottom but not crunchy kind. Could use recommendation for cooling and waterproof mattress protector? Latex scares me a bit because I become allergic to things easily and heard it was stiffer that memory foam.

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Look into Bed Jet, Eight Sleep and Chilipad.

John

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Les,

Not sure about your Casper. With all that memory foam, granted, it does have some air channels, but looking at the description, it’s foam layered on foam. They place those air channels in the heat-absorbing foam, but then encase the springs with more foam around the perimeter (read about foam encasement here), creating a heat-retaining “Tub.”

Adding a 3" wool topper or horsehair topper may be a sensible solution to maintain heat neutrality, as it wicks away moisture. Horsehair is the best. The bad part is that quality toppers made from these materials are half to three-quarters the cost of the mattress, although, at the end of the day, they may make you more comfortable. We live in NJ and our townhouse is three stories. Our bedroom is over the garage, which is hot in the summer, and we need a portable air conditioner to get the room cool.

I have tested and still have a Perfectly Snug Smart Topper on the mattress, too. We really did not need it with the wool topper, but I like to tinker and try things so I can offer firsthand experience when suggesting something.

I have to say, the PS is quite impressive. No, it is not like having a full blown air conditioner in your bed. It is a 2" topper with a couple of powerful fans built in that help keep the moisture under the blanket down by circulating the air, and it is surprisingly cold. It also has heat, so in the winter, if you need it, it will warm you up. It does not work like a conventional air conditioner, though.

It is designed to follow your natural sleep cycle. You set the app for your typical sleep time, or just engage the app at sleep time, and set it to what is the equivalent of plus or minus 10 degrees from what the sensors in the topper read as your body temperature. Most folks like to fall asleep cool, and your body naturally begins to lower its temperature, preparing for sleep. As the night progresses and your body adjusts to your sleep cycle, up to the point where your body begins to warm up, preparing you to wake, the PS can be programmed to keep you cooler longer for a better night’s sleep.

It actually works quite well and is easy to use. You place it on your bed as you would any other topper, connect each controllable side cord at the head of the topper, and plug it into a wall outlet.

I know you mentioned various claims made and friends’ opinions regarding cooling and cooler materials. My take on it is this: memory foam is going to be one of the hotter, heat-retaining materials. Latex will be less hot. Natural fibers, horsehair, wool, cotton, etc., will be even less warm, if warm at all. NONE OF THIS MATTERS unless YOU are comfortable. Fabrics and fibers do not cool. They are not air conditioners. As @EuropeanSleep described, the moisture/humidity is what makes you feel the effects of the heat. Circulate air and feel less hot. Circulate cold air (an air conditioner) and feel very cool.

You can buy these magic cooling materials all day long, swaddle yourself in them, drape them on your mattress any way you like. Fifteen minutes later, you are going to be hot. I have written about this a number of times. While certain materials and fabric combinations work to cool you down, it is about wicking the moisture away from your body, and then the air dries that moisture so it does not come back to “attack” you. When you are running, walking, exercising, etc., you perspire, and these magic materials remove the moisture from your body, waiting for the air to dry it off the surface. In the case of cotton and wool, they absorb it into the material. When you are on a mattress, those plastic materials not only do not wick the moisture from your body, and even if they did, it has nowhere to go, except back onto your body.

The Perfectly Snug Topper and others like it circulate the air under the covers to dry the wicked moisture that keeps you hot. Horsehair and wool toppers get that moisture away from your body long enough for it to dissipate through the topper. Cotton sheets in lower thread counts and percale weaves, and of course, linen, do a great job allowing airflow and are moisture-wicking.

We used to have a saying as athletes: leave the ego at the door and just play the game. Here, I would suggest, leave the marketing BS at the door and select those things that actually work. Now, don’t get me wrong, there is science behind those marketed fibers, foams, air channels, and so on, but when it comes to use in a mattress environment, they are way overstated, embellished, and not as effective as in the environment originally designed.

Yes, when you go to a showroom where the temp is set at 68 or 65 degrees, and you touch the mattress cover, it is going to feel cold. In that environment, the mattress has been sitting all day absorbing the cold air in the room. When you get home, you put on a mattress protector, sheets, blankets, perhaps a topper, and at that point, the effect of the cooling is negated. Think about a hot day at the beach. The water is 70-75 degrees, but is 90 outside. For some the water feels like an ice box, as there is a 20 degree temperature difference. If it were 75 degrees outside with the water at 70 - 75, it would not seem as cold.
A little smoke and mirrors there.

And don’t be fooled by marketing that says XYZ’s mattress is 10 degrees cooler, until you read the asterisk fine print, only to find out that the mattress that feels 10 degrees cooler is only cooler than that company’s other hot lava quicksand mattress, not the mattress you have at home that you are sweating to death on.

There are mattress protectors made from wool that are not entirely waterproof but offer a wool barrier between you and the mattress like this one. The ones by Naturepedic, Avocado (made with cornstarch to create the PU barrier) , and Birch are very nice, organic cotton on both sides with a very thin PU layer between that is both breathable and keeps most spills from passing through to the mattress.

Hope this offers a little more insight than what has already been given.

Maverick

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Hi Les, so I am an older woman than you as my night sweats have abated quite a lot, not entirely gone. I have a couple of suggestions.

  1. See if your doctor will give you ERT temporarily.
  2. Whatever you sleep on, make sure there is something with wool under the sheet. Like the mattress covers from The Woolroom are of quilted cotton over wool.
  3. Linen sheets. Much better than Percale or any other cotton. You can get very fairly priced linen sheets at Quince. I use them nightly and they’ve made a huge difference.
  4. Avoid memory foam at all costs.

I sleep on an all latex DIY set up. Latex has no memory foam. Talalay is cooler than Dunlop and might give you the softness a side sleeper needs.
I agree with much of what European Sleep wrote. Only quibble is cotton… i think linen bedding will be better for you.
Good Luck
hester

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Thanks for taking the time to offer your experience. I like the idea of wool padding or protectors. Are they itchy? And linen sheets. Not ready for ERT route. Thinking about Latex but concerned about mom who is allergic to Latex and uses the bed sometimes.

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Thanks for getting back to me. I am glad to hear that the perfectly snug topper works. You said that you used it with 3’’ wool topper. I am assuming that you put it on top? My Bedjet is just not cutting it. I will probably be return my Casper Dream Max and Bedjet. At a lost at what to replace it with. Open to adding perfectly snug to need set up but need lower mattress to accommodate and you have said that simple is better and if one layer is off then rest is off. You mentioned to me before about getting Titan Elite Plus, and just read that you have also use Plank Luxe too. Both are for heavier folks, thoughts on Aurora Luxe. Tried firm at Sleep Pare, not bad but a bit firm. I not sure about Latex, mom is allergic and sometimes uses bed. I am not sure how much longer I can go with this lack of sleep though. Tried Purple the other day and are ok but skeptical. The person there said that the mattress encasement that I use for my allergies/keep bed bugs out will negate cooling properties. I also looked into wool mattress protectors and Plush makes one that is waterproof too. Have you come across this brand. Thanks

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Hi,
If you go here: Wool Mattress Toppers, Protectors, & Pads | Woolroom
You will find a washable (not machine dry-able tho) mattress protector. The fabric cover is cotton. They even have an organic cotton option. I went for the non-organic option because it’s cheaper and because I use a bottom sheet to cover the protector. So, if you use a bottom sheet, you are 2 layers away from any wool.
If you try linen, and aren’t loaded with moolah, these sheets are wonderful, washable, dry-able (on low and take out before completely dry) . I adore them and they help a lot with night sweats.
Linen Bedding
Again, Good Luck

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Hi Les, hope all is well.

I rotate and try a lot of different combinations. Funny enough, we were actually fine on our Plank Luxe mattress with nothing on top. I like to drive my wife a little crazy experimenting with pillows, toppers, and duvets made from all kinds of common materials, foams, and fibers. The main reason I do this is to be able to speak from personal experience.

I’m 6’0", 220 lbs, 65 years old, and my wife is 5’4", 135 lbs, 62 years old. We both prefer a firm mattress. We travel occasionally, sometimes staying with family, at luxury hotels, or at friends’ homes, but so far we haven’t found a mattress we like better than ours. We usually come back from trips sore and need a few nights at home to recover.

Just wanted to share some background since I think it helps provide perspective, though I know comfort is subjective. What feels great to one person can feel terrible to another.

We have about 5 or 6 mattresses in the house. Our master bedroom is our Plank Luxe, and currently our guest rooms have a Titan Plus Elite and a Glacier Sleep Apex. I moved our BB Hybrid to my testing room along with a Flexispot U3 in the test room.

Yes, the Plank and Titan are designed with heavier folks in mind, but I approached it from two angles. First, we simply like a firm mattress. That part is straightforward. Second, I believe a stronger, more robust spring support system can benefit anyone, as long as it’s paired with the right comfort layers and cover.

It’s kind of like why I buy Alienware computers instead of standard Dell models, even their XPS line. I’m not a “gamer”, but I know the components, cooling systems, and drive speeds and other components are upgraded versions of what you find in their regular setups.

I do like the Aurora. I’m not a huge fan of copper or mineral infused foams, though. I’m just not fully convinced that gel or mineral infused foams do anything significantly better than the base foams they’re added to. There might be some science behind it, but I don’t place much value on those additives as it relates to the mattress industry when compared to their use in the areas originally intended. For example, my GlacierSleep mattress has some of those features.

Was the Apex cold to the touch before adding sheets and bedding? Yes, definitely. But what really stood out to me when testing it was the overall feel: firmness, contouring, and support. Not the cooling claims or infused materials. It’s just a well-built, comfortable mattress. I look at the Aurora the same way. It has a solid support system, it’s comfortable to lie on, and while the firm version I tried wasn’t as firm as the Plank Luxe, it still felt great.

The Titan Elite has a similar feel in the comfort layer. Even though it’s made for plus-sized sleepers, it strikes a nice balance between a strong, firm support core and a soft, breathable 2-inch euro top and a comfort layer with microcoils that help with airflow, especially useful for people who tend to sleep hot.

I like the idea of using a topper on a mattress. To soften or add contouring and to add longevity to the mattress, sort of double bonus. While you might have felt the Aurora may have been a bit firm, remember these foams are going to soften up, usually front loaded (first few months) and may fall right into your comfort zone. Which is why I like to suggest, going a tad firmer than what you imagine you prefer. Although with wool, cotton, horsehair and most natural fiber mattresses, they tend to compress and firm up a bit and the feel is a bit different than the foam build mattresses.

Personally, forget purple. The grid was orginally designed for short term use by accident and burn victims. From my personal perspective it is not a very good mattress material, but that is just my personal perspective. Almost every “anatomy of the mattress, or what’s inside the mattress” shows the grid breaking down or ripping apart.

The person in the showroom makes a valid point about the mattress protector, but that’s probably true no matter which one you’re using. In fact, you could argue that mattress protectors can make the bed feel warmer, unless you’re using a well-made cotton or wool option that allows for good airflow. The more airflow you have, the drier you’ll stay and the less heat you’ll feel while sleeping. Not familiar with the plush brand, but will look it up, unless you are referring to Plushbeds, then yes.

Just remember, you want to experience your mattress for a good month or two. That may mean you have to evaluate what the mattress construction and build is made from and make an educated decision on the most likely to be successful. Working with a seasoned professional is one of the best routes you can take. Perhaps the same conclusion may result, but these folks work with clients every day.

Oh, yes, my set up is, mattress, protector, wool topper, another protector, Perfectly Snug and DreamFit sheet to tidy it all up. We have two duvets on our bed, one wool insert with cotton duvet cover and one down insert with cotton duvet cover. No, we are not hot. We were to hot before the Perfectly Snug either. Wool is just great for heat neutrality. Now, I replace the 3" wool topper with a 3" firm Talalay Topper. Still feels great, the benefit is, no body impressions. The hand made wool topper leaves body impressions. Nothing that bothers our sleep, it just looks a bit awkward. The latex bounces back so no body impressions and a bit more contouring and pressure relief.

Sorry for the long explanation, but sometimes folks find that seeing clear picture of the situation in it entirety, offers a better perspective.

Maverick

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Hi Maverick, I trying to do well but after another night of trying to get good or any sleep is beyond words. Thank you for your detail analysis and personal bed set up. Just curious how high is your bed. If Plank Luxe is 14 inches, 3 inch now latex topper and 2 inch perfectly snug. With protectors and sheet’s isn’t that like 20 inches high and higher if use raised foundation of any kind. I am glad that you think Glacier is a well built brand. But Apex is 14 inches too. My Casper is that and a big reason why not trying Perfectly with it and went with Bed jet that is not cutting it as thought. If I am going to put toppers on it don’t I need like an 11 or 12 inch base mattress to start. Thoughts on Boring or Saatva longer trials. Also, my person at Restore the back recommended a Technogel mattress, Euforua one. Have you heard of them? Casper trial is up on August 6 and keep having to abandon it many nights after trying to fall asleep on it for hours to the the old school Sealy in spare room where I fall asleep with a half an hour. It is sagging a bit and was a medium (called them semi-firms back in the day🤣) when I got it 15 years ago. Wish there was an old school mattress company that doesn’t use memory foam at least not in top layers. Got to get this fixed soon before summer break is over and back to teaching school in the fall. Thanks again.

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My Plank Luxe is 13.25" the latex topper is 3"(as was the wool topper before it, although it compresses more than the latex without recovering) and the perfectly snug is 2" add another 1/2 for mattress protectors and sheets etc. So, a total just under 19". Earlier in the year, I swapped my 9" semi flex foundation, for a 5.5 inch slatted foundation. My wife used to have to climb on yoga blocks for the first 2 years, lol, so, I finally got around to lowering the system 4" and it works fine. With the DreamFit sheets, I never have to worry about the fitted sheet coming off the bed, so no issues there. I believe the bed frame slats that my foundation rests on is about 10.5" off the floor. So, I would say, in total, we are just under 36" from floor to bed surface.
Technogel is made by Diamond. I tried them at the show last july. It was a comfortable mattress, although I tried several of the versions including the AutoPilot. I will say they were comfortable mattresses, I am never too impressed with the gel layers, or grid layers, but the bed itself to lie on was comfortable.

Although I have to admit, I went to their other showroom around the corner from where all of the technology beds were, and I tried their Legacy Collection and Natural Hybrid, and almost ordered one of them, they were that comfortable. I think it is part of their natural Ethos collection. Simple and to the point.

@BeloitMattress has several old school mattresses as does @ShovlinMattress. One of my favorite mattress companies Shifman, takes you back old school, particularly in in their vintage and masters collection, and Millbrook, a British name, that BIA (Bedding Industries of America manufacture here the states, with imported British components) is another more old school design with no foams (although they will make them with latex). My buddy carries them at Yawnder.com, along with the Technogel’s. Millbrook and @Glacier are manufactured by the same company, and they do a very nice job with their products. Hemingway is another brand they manufacture. Also, Brooklyn Bedding makes a mattress called the Heritage, you wont find it too much online, but it is quite the nice mattress to with no memory foam.

No worries, you will find a perfect match before your trial is up. Focus on the specs and what you would prefer and keep narrowing down the field.

You got this.

Maverick

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Hi Maverick,

Thanks for the vote if confidence. I like your support of the Glacier beds and are half off right now but have some logistics that prevents me from trying it, wanted to see in guest room first but costs to get rid of everything in there a bit much right now.

I really like the feel of my Casper and am close on temperature I think. I removed my mattress encasement and it did help, think Bedjet too if can find right setting. The last piece is sheets and mattress protectors. My present mattress protector has about 40% Tencil woven into Rayon top and as mentioned bottom is polyurethane layer cover up polyester sheet. Here are some alternatives that might make it more temperature regulating…still all waterproof for warranty reasons …thoughts. Will look into your sheets too.

Plushbeds- Wool and cotton, used waterproof recycled microfiber, non returnable

Woolroom- Wool, cotton and TPU sprayed layer I gues better than regular polyurethane, returnable

Dosage- random google find when asked for cooling waterproof mattress protector, organic cotton, returnable

Dosaze™ Cooling Bamboo Waterproof Mattress Protector.

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Check out Winston’s in the UK. I am about your size in the USA and had a similar problem finding a new mattress. I wound up purchasing the “Shropshire” medium tension coils and all materials are natural with no foams but all the comfort and conforming and no need for a topper. Not cheap but I didn’t care because not sleeping and backpain were ruining my days!
There is a USA website and they ship, also all customer service is a person,not a bot.

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Thanks so much! Going out of my mind here. Just checked out their site and at this point I am ready to pay some more. Quick and maybe stupid question. Is it itchy? Also, would you recommend going medium even though their chart says soft me. I am only 14 pounds or so before medium :face_with_peeking_eye:. Lastly, are you presently in the USA, probably another dumb question since I see Boston in tag but thought I check. If so how did that go with delivery etc. Says on website shouldn’t be etc. I think. Going to check with them too. Want to make sure before spending 5 thousand on a mattress. But worth it if I can sleep cool and well. Also, what kind of mattress protector and sheets do you use?

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Hi,
I had gone out of my mind in the process.
I recommend using the chat box with your questions to either Aaron or Reese, who are real people and will help you with the process for what is best for you. I am not an expert. I chatted with Aaron and nd then spoke with him on the phone. He helped guide the selection best for my specific needs, and it was the most beneficial time spent!

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These are not dumb questions, This is not an insignificant expense either.

  1. No, not itchy at all. Mattress is covered with a wonderful cotton fabric and I use a dust mite cover and on the sleep surface a 100% cotton mattress pad/protector
  2. I can’t advise on the best spring tension. Please talk/ text with Reese or Aaron and they can give you advice about that. It’s a very important topic to address.
  3. I am in Massachusetts, Boston. Mattress was shipped via FedEx and was delivered without a problem. There was the expected customs clearance and the UK import tariff payment which was easy and completed via FedEx Docusign, but could have also been managed through Winston’s. (It was straightforward enough and no glitches.) Delivery was smooth and the mattress packaged really well and protected.
  4. Mattress protector I use is from SAATVA (lol, only thing that I kept after returning their Classic mattress) Sheets are cotton, nothing new or fancy.

Hope this helps, but get in touch with Winstons and read the reviews on TrustPilot if you’re looking for other opinions. I am just so happy I bought this mattress and hope you find what works for you too!