[quote=“Phoenix” post=55914]Hi baddog,
I would agree with djgoldb’s comments that there is no inherent reason to use only latex if a combination of memory foam and latex (with the memory foam under the latex) works best for you in terms of PPP.
[quote]I now have the following pieces of latex:
6" ILD 44 Dunlop (SleepOnLatex)
3" ILD 30 Dunlop (SleepOnLatex)
3" ILD 20 Dunlop (SleepOnLatex)
2" ILD 21 Talalay (Arizona Premium Mattress)
2" ILD 22 Talalay (Foam Factory)
1" ILD 22 Talalay (Foam Factory)
I also have the following pieces of memory foam:
3" 5lb Aerus memory foam (Memory Foam Comfort)
1" 5lb Aerus memory foam (Memory Foam Comfort)
I have tried every configuration/combination of latex, or latex with memory foam but I have been unable to achieve a proper balance between pressure relief and spinal support with my current layers. Memory foam as a topper did not work for me as I eventually sink into it and my spine comes way out of alignment. Memory foam under latex does help but I am trying to assemble a complete latex solution.
It takes at least 5" of soft (ILD 21/22) Talalay latex to completely remove all pressure points and firmness from my hips and thighs, and this only works when on top of the 3" of ILD 20 Dunlop. This is obviously is less than ideal for spinal alignment.[/quote]
Part of the issues you are having may be related to the two latex layers that you purchased from Foam Factory which are almost certainly in a higher ILD range than you believed you were purchasing. There is more about purchasing from Foambymail (aka FBM and Foam Factory among others) in this post and this post and this topic (about their polyfoam and sources) and this post (presumably from a past employee). They don’t sell Talalay latex … they only say they do … and I also wouldn’t consider their latex ILD ratings to be accurate or reliable.
I would probably treat the two Dunlop layers you purchased from them as being in a medium firmness range (@30 ILD or so although this would strictly be guesswork) and use them deeper in the mattress to see if this makes any difference although it can be much more challenging to build a DIY design when two of your layers are an unknown firmness so trial and error will become much more important than their actual listed ILD ranges.
Your design is too complex and has too many layers (including two unknown layers) to be able to predict the types of changes that may be helpful with any specificity but it may be very helpful if you could list your “top 3” configurations along with a more detailed description of your symptoms and sleeping experience on each of them and how they differ from each other (again in terms of your actual “symptoms” and sleeping experience) which may help to identify any “patterns” that can point to the type of changes that may bring you closer to your ideal design.
I would keep in mind that the ILD isn’t a reliable indicator of the relative firmness of memory foam compared to other materials because ILD/IFD testing with memory foam produces completely different results than the same ILD/IFD testing with more resilient foam materials (see post #34 here) and ILD by itself (or IFD in the case of polyfoam or memory foam) is also only one of several specifications that can affect the sensation of softness or firmness relative to different body types and sleeping positions (see post #4 here).
Phoenix[/quote]
Hi Phoenix,
To be clear ‘all’ of the Dunlop layers were purchased from ‘SleepOnLatex’. The only latex purchased from Foamfactory was a 2" and a 1" layer of ILD 22 Talalay. So my configuration of 6" ILD 44 Dunlop, 3" ILD 30 Dunlop, 3" ILD 20 Dunlop was all purchased from SleepOnLatex so the ILD’s of these layers are indeed correct and together they are not providing the pressure relief I need and require either additional latex or the replacement of one or more layers. The 2" and the 1" layers of ILD 22 Talalay from Foam Factory combined with the 2" ILD 21 Talalay from Arizona Premium Mattress are indeed providing pressure relief. The reason I purchased the these two layers from Foam Factory is that I can slip across the border from where I live in Canada … their pick-up price and no shipping and no duty when I cross the border saves me literally 50%. The quality of the Talalay is not in every respect equal to the quality of Arizona Premium but they do indeed appear to be Talalay (see attached pictures). I have tested them and they both are functionally equivalent for pressure relief as the Talalay I purchased from Arizona Premium Mattress. As far as pressure relief, the FoamFactory latex does not appear to be the problem but are actually providing pressure relief at least for now.
There is really only one configuration that works and that is:
6" ILD 44 Dunlop, 3" ILD 30 Dunlop, 3" ILD 20 Dunlop, 5" of ILD 21/22 Talalay.
I am surprised that this actually works and I say it works in the sense of having no pressure points either side sleeping or my version of stomach sleeping (noted above), and spinal alignment is surprisingly ‘not bad’ … not perfect as the mattress is obviously soft but the only pain/discomfort seems to arise from extended periods of sleeping on my back.
No other configuration provides complete pressure relief and I have seriously changed configurations every night for the last two months. Memory foam inserted between the Talalay and the Dunlop does help with pressure relief but as I stated it takes 2" memory foam to equal 1" of Talalay.
Unfortunately I did not anticipate this problem and therefore did not keep a journal of my exact experience on every different configuration but this can be adequately summarized in the following:
Taking as a base configuration:
6" ILD 44 Dunlop, 3" ILD 30 Dunlop, 3" ILD 20 Dunlop
Any layers of latex or memory foam inserted under anywhere below the ILD 20 Dunlop makes the bed feel softer but does almost nothing for the pain/discomfort I experience in my hips and thighs. The discomfort develops over the course of a few minutes and is decreased as layers are added above the ILD 20 Dunlop. It feels like my hips/thighs are gently resting upon a hard surface and the discomfort increases as I remain in a fixed position. The discomfort decreases as I add layers of latex or memory foam above the ILD 20 Dunlop.
Hopefully this helps as I don’t know how I can provide much additional detail. As stated above laying down on the base configuration of Dunlop feels almost perfect when I first lay down but very quickly produces the discomfort I have described. Would you expect replacing the ILD 20 Dunlop with N-3 #25-29 ILD Talalay likely to provide better pressure relief and thus require less soft Talalay on top which would have the added effect of creating a somewhat firmer mattress with improved spinal alignment? I have read all I could find on the differences between Dunlop and Talalay latex but I am still unclear on comparing their pressure relief and/or alignment properties.
I read the following from a post on this forum:
Whereas Dunlop will rapidly increase in firmness after 50% compression (what is called “support”), that same property can create pressure points to hips and shoulders that sink into this deeper/firmer zone, but since Dunlop is relatively soft (relative to the 25% ILD rating, that is) in the upper 25% of the layer, it can actually have diminished support to other parts off the body that need more support. The properties of Talalay are clearly better than Dunlop in this regard in the top layer as you can have the same ILD, but have more support in the top 25% and less pressure points in that 50-75% depth.
He concludes:
I am concluding that (for me) Dunlop is a good middle layer, but is not ideal for the top (unless you need firm),
Could you comment on this Phoenix as it seems to reflect my current understanding (or lack thereof) and proposed path forward and question regarding replacing the ILD 20 Dunlop with the N3?