All Latex bed = motion / partner disturbance

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks again for this amazing site and all your help here. I took your advice and contacted the local LA dealer regarding (Henry @ Flexus) an all latex cal king. We worked everything out and he said he called you to confirm some of the ideas. I described to him that we are light weighted side sleepers and needed to change from our pillowtop box spring due to ‘partner disturbance’ everything night and morning – the bed was just too bouncy. Together we all came up with a Natural Comfort 9" latex mattress 6" 31 ILD Dunlop Base Core + 3" 22-24 ILD Natural Talay Comfort layer… wow that is a long product name. :S  

So the good news is that the bed feels great… like a water bed perhaps. The bad news is that like a water bed the entire bed wobbles and ripples literally when we are simply speaking to each other! So now we have our most expensive mattress ever and the ‘partner disturbance’ is more pronounced than even before. Do you think the bed could have been built differently to address this top priority of ours? Or is it possible to split a cal king in two parts as only that will really solve the issue? Would that cost much more or less? We are concerned here as I don’t know what if any exchange policy there is and we were planning to have the bed for 10 years or something naturally. But after a just a few nights we have woken each other up many times already. 

Please help us sleep, Phoenix! Thank you -

Hi Jbedshopper,

Latex is among the least motion transferring of materials second only to memory foam. This is because it is what is called “point elastic” meaning that a local area can be compressed without affecting the areas around it. Memory foam is also point elastic but it also absorbs energy (has high hysteresis) while latex returns energy. This is why movement is easier on a latex mattress and why it feels closer to an innerspring feel (in its liveliness) than memory foam which has a more “dead” feeling.

If there is motion transfer in a latex mattress … then it is usually coming from what is either under or over the latex. The first place I would look at is what is under it.

Can you tell me what the mattress is sitting on from the “floor” upwards?

Putting the mattress directly on the floor will also help confirm where the motion transference is coming from. I am guessing there is some “rocking” or movement coming from what the mattress is sitting on.

Phoenix

well yes we do now have an unusual setup under the new mattress. Previously we had the Sealy box springs (looks like two twin sized equaling a cal king) plus the pillowtop mattress itself measured 15". Realizing that the new latex mattress was only 9" we worked out with Flexus adding another set of box springs which they latched together with a little metal hook and latch set at the head and foot areas so that the box springs wouldn’t drift apart. So now we have the wooden bed frame, two sets of box springs (four total units), and the latex mattress. On top we have just sheets.

Anyhow it certainly doesn’t seem like the extreme motion vibrations are coming from below but perhaps like the top of a latter everything is amplified at the apex as you suggest. Hmm… My wife suggested we abandon the box springs and just flip the old pillowtop mattress over and seat it underneath the new latex bed! I hope you are correct that the expensive latex component is not at fault as we keep waking in the mid and early hours since the motions are so pronounced!

Thanks as always for your advice.

Hi jbedshopper,

I think your description has certainly identified the problem. A latex mattress needs a firm non flexing and solid foundation.

As you mentioned … any motion of the base will be amplified on top and if the Sealy “boxspring” is designed for use under an innerspring mattress (has flex in it) it would certainly not be a solid base. If you put a solid boxspring on top of this it may well cause even more problems.

A “flipped” mattress would also not be suitable for use under a latex mattress because it is also designed to flex rather than create a supportive surface.

I can assure you that because of its point elasticity, latex is not inherently a “motion transferring” material but for different reasons than memory foam and if there is an issue that is as obvious as yours … it is coming either from what is above the latex or what is below it (and in your case it seems clear to me that what is below it is the cause).

If you need to raise the height of your mattress … then something very solid, flat, and unyielding under the box spring is necessary.

Phoenix

Happy Holidays, Phoenix -

We tried as you said and removed the extra set of Sealy supports and now have a low bed in the frame with just the “high quality” supports from Flexus that came to match the all latex bed. The situation seems improved though sadly it is still a “wiggle bed” and likely worse than the pillow top bed we replaced due to partner disturbance. While the support and comfort are basically fine, we are nevertheless sad having gone to so much expense and effort with no real improvement when it comes to not waking each other up too often when we turn over or come and go at different times. We surely don’t miss the toxic memory foam as a whole yet the motion isolation on that mattress was actually quite excellent.

Spoke with Flexus last week about getting a taller support system but this may make motions even worse again. ?

Regards,

Hi jbedshopper,

Since latex is not what the vast majority of people would call a motion transferring material, then the remaining causes of your excess motion could be the bed frame, the foundation, or the interface between the two (rocking because one surface is not completely flat). While memory foam is better at motion isolation because it actually absorbs energy while latex “stores” energy, its point elasticity gives it the ability to compress locally with little effect on the larger surface which means that the motion transfer is very small compared to other materials and foams. This is one of its “selling points”. Latex is also heavy so any lack of support in the bedframe itself could also be coming to light.

If you put the mattress on the floor you will be able to see how latex reacts on a perfectly still and solid surface. Then putting the mattress on the foundation on the floor (and confirming there is no movement in the foundation) would be the next step. This will help you isolate where the movement is coming from.

A taller foundation that is flat, strong, and solid would not by itself create a problem but this would not remove any problems that came from other parts of your support system or the “interface” between them.

Phoenix

Phoenix -

Thank you again for your comments which I read thoroughly yesterday and accepted. Now please hear from me ‘the story of last night’…

Because there is really no space in the bedroom to easily try the latex mattress on the floor, then while going to sleep I did some shock experiments including lying on my back and patting my hand straight down and kicking my heel straight down. I reasoned that a near perfect up down motion could reasonably eliminate the possibility of our partner disturbance problem being due to side to side motions and bed frame swaying. Sure enough both these not forceful gestures where translated to discernible shockwaves all the way up to my head. Hmmmm…

Then suddenly around 4 AM I was awoken by my wife simply turning over and the resultant shock waves – like we were sleeping on a bed of Jello as it were. Frustrated and remembering your suggestion I got up, turned on the light, and convinced her to help me chaotically rearrange our furniture so that we could slide the mattress alone onto the bare hard wood floor. After a minute of testing this ‘pure setup’ sadly the effect is the same as always. I could literally sense her adjusting her feet everywhere throughout the bed and to the opposite diagonal all the way at my head!!! In the near hundred hotel / guestroom beds we have shared I can never remember sensing her rustling feets as with this new high end latex/jello mattress! No wonder a simple turn over from one of us wakes the other as has happened every single night since this mattress arrived. Needless to say after all this commotion sleep did not return to our eyes for the rest of the early morning.

So we tiredly find ourselves worse off than ever regarding the original main pillow top issue of partner disturbance. Again our brief trial with toxic memory foam was fantastic in this one regard even on our bed frame. I am planning to call Flexus today to arrange a refund and return OR some sort of replacement. Really I don’t want my money back but rather just want 10 years of potential full night’s sleep! Please send any last advice if you can – even ideas on some sort of split cal king bed / two twins that could be sheeted together to fit our one frame. Our situation is the same as before: slender, side sleepers, seeking healthy support and minimized partner disturbances.

Please forgive my drowsy crankiness – it’s been nearly a month of long nights with short sleep.

Hi jbedshopper,

I’m not sure what to tell you. As you likely already know from testing latex before you made your purchase … latex is not a motion transferring material. It is also not a material which sends “waves” across the surface. You can confirm this by lying on any latex mattress in any store (as long as it really is latex and not just a thin latex layer mixed in with something else). While there are some people who do talk about a “jello” feeling with latex … this is a result of certain constructions where a person sinks in too deeply into the mattress or the way that latex (or any highly resilient and elastic material) returns energy when they move. If you have tried a latex pillow for example and lie on your back and then turn your head side to side you will feel it springing back from behind as your head moves away from the part it was resting on and how it “helps” your head to move. This is a subjective perception or “feel” that is part of individual preference but has nothing to do with motion transfer. Even this can be adjusted by changing layer thickness or the softness/firmness of the layers.

I recognize your frustration and really have no answers as I can’t see exactly what may be happening except to suggest once again lying on several latex mattresses in any nearby outlets to prove to yourself the truth of this and to re-validate your experiences when you were testing latex mattresses. You will be able to see on any of them how little motion is transferred compared to other types of mattress or foam with the exception of memory foam which is slightly better in this regard because it is both “point elastic” and “energy absorbing” while latex is more point elastic. While the motion transfer is more than zero … it is very little.

Two suggestions I could make would be to cut the comfort layer down the middle to further isolate one side from the other and/or to use a different ILD in the top layer. I’m sure that Henry would be happy to work with you in the store as he could actually see what may be happening and could help isolate where your motion transfer experience may be coming from and what adjustments may be necessary for you to be happy with the feel of your mattress.

I understand that this must be frustrating but the most important part of solving any problem is to correctly identify its source by being able to see in person what could be happening while it is happening. The ability to test various options and see which make the issue better or worse will also go a long way to helping Henry both identify and solve it to your satisfaction. Regardless of why this may be happening … your sleep is important and it is clear that one way or another your current sleeping experience is certainly “less than ideal” and this is an issue that needs to be resolved.

Phoenix

Phoenix –

We have been continuing to suffer greatly with the new bed. In trying to solve awaking each other 1-2 times per night with a box spring pillow top mattress – we now instead waken each other 5-6 times per night with the far more expensive latex mattress. It almost feels as though we are never fully asleep actually since there is near continuous motion below us. The shocks are even audible below us as well as felt. In fact as internet customers (of yours  indirectly) we had not tested latex mattresses in the store as we are not able to travel there together due to work and car limitations. Additionally the concept of testing a mattress for 3 minutes when really what matters is how it feels after 8 hours just never seemed useful to us and so we solicited your expert opinions on the matter. 

With respect to your explanations and expertise, please consider that of course you have not actually ever tested this our particular mattress. I can assure you again this particular all latex mattress is simply the most wiggly/wobbly/wavy mattress we have likely EVER tried amongst thousands. In recent travels I can’t help testing other beds by shuffling my feet around and sure enough nothing ‘shock waves’ up to my head area as now happens 100 times per night with the latex. We have even had the bed tested by the owner who acknowledged that in me lightly patting a lower corner of the bed with my hand that he indeed could feel the waves on the opposite corner where his head laid. His response was ‘that’s just latex’ and recommended ‘adding a large pillow top to the mattress if that’s a problem’ ?!? And the most amazing shock is that though we reported the issue to him within days (after trying the mattress on the bare floor at your suggestions) and then requested exchange / return / refund / anything! within weeks he coolly replied that there is no such guarantee from them. Considering virtually everywhere else in the modern world has a 30 day return policy this was most stunning. Were you aware that they have none of tangible customer care when recommending them to us? 

In retrospect I am still dazed how the one feature we so sought – partner disturbance relief - was somehow so absent from the end product and even introduced a whole new level of disturbance to our bedroom. To say that we are depressed, saddened, fatigued by the discomfort we have gotten ourselves into would naturally be a tremendous understatement. Obviously we wish we could have tested the bed ourselves instead of trusting more expert opinions but was not possible for us as explained above. 

:S

Hi jbedshopper,

As I said in my last post … I’m just not sure what to tell you. There are a couple of things though that I should clarify since some of what you are saying here is not quite accurate or at least implies “blame” where I would put the emphasis more on “responsibility”.

First in terms of a “comfort guarantee” or a refund policy … I agree that this is important when you are buying online or sight unseen and I believe that a consumer is responsible for finding out about the policy here before they buy a mattress that they haven’t tested or haven’t at least tested similar mattresses using the same materials. Buying from a local manufacturer though where the pricing structure is built on the assumption that you will test the mattress is a different story. Bear in mind that everything has a cost and its not unusual at all for a local manufacturer to not offer this so that they can sell their mattresses at a lower cost to everyone and not have to build in the cost of comfort replacements or refunds into the price of their mattresses.

The value of a good local manufacturer is that you have the chance to buy a mattress that has great value that you can actually test and know ahead of time will be suitable for your needs and preferences. While you certainly may not be able to tell this in 3 minutes on a mattress … you certainly can if you spend at least 15 minutes or more on it with the help of someone who knows what to look for and test for. Perhaps it could take half an hour. If you don’t plan to actually test a mattress … then an online purchase from a manufacturer who specializes in this and offers an exchange or refund would make sense. They would have an “average” exchange or refund rate built in to the cost of their mattress which is why they can offer the service even though its not necessary or even desirable for a local purchase when the cost tradeoff and increased price for everyone is considered. A comfort exchange leaves the manufacturer with a mattress that cannot be resold (if they are ethical) and they are already operating at a lower profit margin than most of the industry. In cases where someone isn’t happy though … they will normally “fix” the mattress at a nominal cost rather than offer a complete exchange or a refund.

I would hope it is clear as well from my many posts on this forum that buying anything … especially a mattress … based on someone else’s opinions (“expert” or otherwise) and using this to “replace” your own experience or testing is never a good idea unless you are buying from a source which offers a refund … and even then I recommend testing mattresses that use similar materials first. I also would not in any way characterize you or anyone as being my “customer” either directly or indirectly and I would guess that you will realize this as well with a little more reflection on what the role of any site like this really is. While my (or anyone else’s) opinions can never take into account the subjective nature of each person’s sensitivities, or predict whether or not they will like the feel or characteristics of any mattress or material, it also doesn’t change the fact that latex … in the opinion of the vast majority of consumers and manufacturers and in its “specs” … is considered a motion isolating material (at least when pressure is applied on top of the mattress). This doesn’t mean that you won’t feel anything, but that the transfer of motion is very small in the perceptions of the vast majority and an improvement on most other choices.

I should also mention that motion isolation is usually describing the transfer of “up and down” or “rolling over” motion on a mattress. An innerspring has more “side to side” stability than a foam core even though it will transfer more motion of the type that most people are referring to when they talk about motion transfer so perhaps this is what you are referring to. In any case … even 3 minutes on a mattress would confirm this. If I put a jug of water on one side of my latex mattress for example and then flop onto the mattress on the other side or sit down “with force” … the water in it moves a little and the jug hardly moves at all. If instead I push on the side of my mattress or try to get a “side to side” motion going … both the jug and the water move much more.

I called Henry to ask him about your situation and to find out his perspective on what you were experiencing.

He explained to me that he had originally offered to come to your home to see what was happening when you first brought this to his attention but that this wasn’t possible for you at the time so you said no. When it became possible for you he then also had other commitments so the two of you weren’t able to get together till later (recently). I hope you can appreciate that this already (having a manufacturer come and visit your home to help you) is already what I consider to be “above and beyond”.

When he came to your home and looked at your mattress he could indeed slightly feel it when you were tapping the mattress but you were tapping it on the side rather than on the top. He also made sure that the cover wasn’t somehow too tight and creating a “trampoline” effect and this too was fine. While he wouldn’t call what he felt “motion transfer” and it was what he would consider “normal” … it is true that latex doesn’t absorb energy in the same way as memory foam even though every mattress manufacturer would consider it as being close and considers it to be a motion isolating material. This is the nature of the material regardless of the mattress. Having said this though … if for whatever reason you are feeling something that others don’t feel or at least don’t see as an issue … then nobody can say this is “wrong” and the solution for this would be to purchase something that your testing showed you was suitable for your preferences and experience. Unfortunately this didn’t happen.

He also didn’t suggest a “pillowtop” but rather a mattress pad like a fiberbed which he thought may help isolate your head and pillow from what you were feeling. Another suggestion would be to split the comfort layer which may also help. You could also add a layer of memory foam on top of your mattress. He was hesitant to suggest a different comfort or support layer because both of you seemed to agree that in terms of pressure relief and support that the current configuration was working very well and in the end if you are sensitive to the slight side to side transfer of movement that is connected to latex then changing the layering probably wouldn’t help anyway and would likely make the pressure relief and alignment worse.

This may also be a clue to what is happening because if they really are “audible” below you then this would clearly be pointing to something other than the mattress because latex is certainly not “audible” in any way.

I wish that you had taken Henry’s advice (and my own) to test a mattress before you purchased it however since that is in the past I would consider a mattress pad (not a pillowtop) in the hopes that this will solve the issue or perhaps having Henry split the comfort layer as this too may make a slight difference in your perception of movement transfer. I would also seriously investigate the possibility that something in your sleeping setup other than the mattress is the major cause of what you are feeling.

I can sympathize with your circumstances but to transfer your responsibility to at least know how the material you were considering felt and performed like for YOU or to find out the refund policies of an outlet before making a purchase if you haven’t done any testing seems very odd to me.

I believe that Henry will do whatever is in his power to do to help you resolve this (and he has already shown his willingness to do this by coming to your home) but to ask for someone else to go beyond their own responsibilities or ask him to take a loss for selling you what you insisted on buying sight unseen in spite of his (and my) suggestions to test it first before you buy it is not reasonable in my opinion. Fix it at a nominal cost if there is something identifiable to be fixed … yes. Refund or exchange it at a loss when that is not built into the prices he charges everyone … no.

I am personally an advocate of consumer education and responsibility and manufacturer service, quality, and value. Each of us is part of this process and to me it’s important to identify who is responsible for what. Each consumer needs to decide what the most important parts of value are for them and make sure that the mattress and outlet they are considering has the “pieces” that they believe are the most important.

I’m hopeful that a mattress pad or splitting the layering or any other reasonable solution (including testing for the possibility that the other parts of your sleeping system may be part of what you are feeling) can resolve this as no matter what the reason or why you may be feeling what you are feeling … I (and I know you and Henry as well) would much rather that it was resolved.

Phoenix

When I was shopping for my bed the first question I asked was about the stores return/exchange policy. I believe this is the responsibility of the buyer. I also asked for it in writing to make sure they would honor it if they said they would allow a refund. I found stores all over the map on this policy, some would exchange only and only one exchange , some charged a restocking fee along with that, some charged delivery to and from as well as a restocking fee(anywhere from 10-30%) , some offered a full refund (but this was rare) I was only able to get that offer when I showed I had a similar offer from another store. Again, get it in writing!

jbedshopper,

We feel your pain and know exactly what you are talking about. Large movements roll throught the bed like an earthquake and small “sharp” movements are felt on the other side of the bed, not unlike sound waves.

Being a materials science engineer I was determined to look into the problem.

I found out that what is under the mattress contributes to the problem but that does not change the fact that latex DOES transfer energy very well. What is under the mattress is not the cause of the problem, it is however the remedy. In addition, our wobbly frame also allowed a “rocking” side-to-side movement to occur.

Experiment #1:
First, I quickly found this article and set out to see if it was all in my head. The experiment was simple. Place a saucer of water at one side of the bed and tap the other. Voila, large ripples formed in the bowl, I was not imagining this! In fact the transfer of movement was extremely efficient, very little energy was lost. I had to be very careful to not spash water out of the bowl.

I ask someone to try this with a latex mattress sitting on concrete. I suspect that when the vibrations hit the concrete they are dampened out. I am very interesed to find out if that is true or not.

Experiement 2:
Since our mattress is already in 2 pieces, left and right, I separated them with a gap and repeaded the experiement. EXACT SAME PROBLEM!! The conclusion is, yes, latex transfers vibration extremely well (no doubt about it), but the vibrations were traveling through the sub-structure. In our case this is a piece of fabric covered plywood that takes our queen sized rigid-box foundation and steps it up for an Olympic-queen sized mattress. OK, plywood is firm and non-flexing but it does unfortunately make a nice sounding board, makes sense so far.

Experiment #3, Fix #1:
I experiemented with different ways to prevent the vibrations/sound/movements/shock waves from transferring throught the plywood. A very thick wool blanket placed between the mattress and plywood helped but unfortunately I only had a small blanket. I bought some 1/2" carpet padding and this helped pretty much. I also used a double layer of it to separate the left and right half, which is not noticed under the 1.5" latex top layer. The carpet pad is crumbly and messy so I will be replacing it some time. Lowes has a commercial carpet pad that looks like thick felt, I may order some.

Fix #2:
I bought a new heavy duty metal frame, the one with the wedge-locks. I took a bit of re-engineering to get the leg extenders (not made by the same company but sold together anyway!) to lock into the holes designed for wheels. Got it pretty good but since it is now 10" off the floor and sitting on padded carped there is still some “rocking” movement.
Note: as time goes on the carpet padding is becoming compressed the the rocking is lessening.

Fix #3:
I also anchored the head-end of the frame to the wall with long screws.

Fix #4:
This we had from day one but I feel it is worth mentioning because I think it helps the problem. We have a very very thick mattress pad. I believe this prevents the sharp vibrations from occuring in the first place. When you roll over and a hand slaps down on the mattress the pad acts as a cushion and prevents a shock wave.

We’re pretty happy now but I’m still thinking about it.

So … what is a good foundation for a latex mattress, pretty inexpensive, sits high, and works on paddedcarpet?

Hi jackson,

Thanks for your comments and your great research :).

Some of your experiments duplicated the results of some of mine that I’ve done over time and in particular the water experiment with both tapping on the top and on the side of the mattress. Tapping on the side produced more ripples because of the side to side movement of the latex.

Your comments about large movements rolling through the mattress like an earthquake isn’t typical of a latex mattress though. I have taken a glass of water and put it on one side of the mattress and then bounced on the other side and while there was vibration in the water … the water didn’t spill. I think most people who have tested various latex mattresses would also say it is much more motion isolating than other types of mattresses with the exception of memory foam which is a little better.

I think that either the “side to side” effect of certain softer or thicker constructions is part of the reason that some people call latex “jiggly” and perhaps this is part of what you feel as an earthquake? This vibration would also be different from memory foam which absorbs much more energy and has very low resilience and high hysteresis while latex has high resilience and low hysteresis (about 20-30%). Latex also flexes in all directions because of it’s elasticity while other foams flex a little more uni dimensionally.

This is also part of the reason I believe that some mattress manufacturers use layer of an inch or two of firm polyfoam on the bottom of a latex mattress (in addition to making the latex easier to handle) to add stability and I’m guessing (haven’t tested this) that it would dampen the vibration you are mentioning as well.

I think your ideas about using a carpet pad on the bottom and a mattress pad (perhaps wool) on top make good sense. A thin memory foam layer would likely also deaden any vibrations There are also some foundations that use wool on top which may work for this (such as the natura organic linked further down).

Different types of latex (Dunlop vs Talalay) and different firmness levels would likely also make a difference in the “vibrations” for those who are sensitive to this.

I’d also be curious about the effect on your mattress of a slatted foundation or even a wire grid foundation vs the plywood (which I think would dampen the vibrations more than a completely solid plywood surface).

How about something like this or this for a very inexpensive wire grid foundation. A lower cost version with less longitudinal wires (less supportive wider grid) is here. A foldable wire grid foundation (out of the box by leggett and platt) is here. None of these require a frame.

Wooden slat foundations that would require a frame to raise them up include …

A KD wooden slat foundation (for the lowest prices I’ve seen) are here and here.

A higher quality universal foundation by Natura (the same one they use with many of their mattresses) is here and an organic version is here.

Of course there’s lots more options that are more expensive but these are among the lowest cost foundations of their types that I know of.

Phoenix

Wow Jackson I’m amazed that you shared so much detail on this old post! Thank you! Honestly I had tired of being told in jargon that latex is a great ‘motion isolating material’ even though with our latex mattress we can feel each other’s feet wiggling the whole bed up all the way to our head at the opposite diagonal. Of the scores of beds we have shared this is never something we even thought possible. And further as online shoppers we felt that after completing much research and being abundantly clear about our priorities that our chosen ‘red car’ arrived in dull brown with a sign that said ‘no refunds’. Needless to say much effort and expense directed towards a problem in the end made it unmistakably worse and we continue to awaken each other numerous times every single night – sigh.

 As you may have read above one lovely morning at 4 AM in immense frustration we yanked the new latex mattress flat on the hardwood floor to see if the problem was due to our foundation / frame but there clearly was NO change. So we have not pursued making any changes to the base though I will study your findings in more detail – especially the padded carpet seems very feasible and affordable. Also on the top end we have not added another layer as that would incur additional costs and seems to negate whatever support advantage the latex is supposed to offer. It feels odd to buy a fancy mattress and then cover it with an entirely different and thick material, yes? Also while we were thrilled with the true motion isolation provided during our short stint with a memory foam mattress... the idea of adding a memory foam topper brings nightmares of chemical fumes flooding swiftly into our minds. 

 Anyhow I am re-inspired to perhaps add a heated blanket style thick mattress topper since the motion problem is still ongoing and our sleep loss can be measured in weeks… not just hours. Can you recommend a brand / model that you are now using as you say it has truly helped? Thanks again, Jackson. Be well ~

Hi all, I’m back for an update after all this time.

jbedshopper … I hope you have found some relief. Thanks for doing the test on a bare floor. Verified again, latex transfers energy very efficently.

I’ve made a few changes. I did change from the generic composite carpet padding (heavy duty, 9/16" thick from Lowes or maybe Home Depot) to the commercial pad (felt type, extremely heavy duty, 1/2" thick, only 1 local carpet store carried it) but it did not work quite as good. It is more dense which allowed the vibrations to transfer through it easier. So now I use both!

The more rigid frame did help and yes the carpet padding (the stuff under the carpet, not the stuff under the matterss!) did compress under the frame’s feet so there is far less rocking now.

Our “fiber bed” topper was from the clearance rack at Bed Bath and Beyond (still $90 though), it is about 2 inches thick when fluffed and has substantial fiber in it. It did not take away from the latex feel and support.

We’re carefull not to flop (the key is to move slowly, not flop) and other that that we don’t really think about it to much anymore.

Success! (or as close to it as we’re going to get!)

j

Hi jackson,

That’s great that you were able to resolve your motion issues.

It’s still amazing to me that different people experience things so differently and one day I may have some scientific explanation for this in terms of which combinations of latex and other components seem to affect which people this way … but for now I just accept it as part of how everyone or every mattress … or perhaps the combination of the two … can be very different.

Thanks for sharing all your efforts with the forum for those who may be facing the same issues.

Phoenix

Hi all. Thank you for sharing your experiences / fixes regarding this topic. I realize these are pretty old Posts, but I stumbled across this while searching for a fix for this same exact issue. As you’ve all mentioned, I can feel minor “vibrations” coming from my partner’s side of the bed. It’s not an up & down disturbance, but more of a shockwave vibration that travels horizontally through the latex mattress. Normally I am a very deep sleeper, but since getting the new latex mattress I have been waking up intermittently throughout the night due to my partner’s minor movements.

I recently bought a 2" thick gel memory foam layer to put on top of the latex to help isolate the vibration. This has improved the issue, but hasn’t been a cure all. I am intigued by Jackson’s suggestion to try a damping material like the carpet pads. Was this just one layer of padding placed between the bed frame and the bottom of the mattress or did you also put pads in between the layers of the mattress?

My configuration consists of a 6" med-firm Dunlop core, a 3" med-firm talalay transition layer, a 2" soft talalay comfort layer, and now a 2" gel memory foam top layer. Would you remmend putting these carpet pads in between layers or just under the overall mattress?

Any other fixes / updates / tweaks over the last six years?

Thanks again for all of the great info!

[quote=“jbedshopper” post=1457]Phoenix -

“…and the resultant shock waves – like we were sleeping on a bed of Jello…”


^ this is a perfect description of what I am feeling on the latex mattress.

(sorry, I can’t figure out how to quote properly). -GMoney37

Hi gmoney37.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Hopefully bedshopper or others with high sensitivity to the motion transfer issues will see your post and return with an update of how their motion isolation experiments turned out in the long run. Unfortunately, there is no real standardization of minimization of motion transfer scale, so generally, it is difficult to offer more specific guidance other than the few ways to mitigate it that are listed in this thread and in the post linked below. It can be a bit of a controversial subject as everyone is different and motion transfer/isolation usually is a matter of perception/sensitivity and the type of movements of each partner … even the cover if it is too stretched, can have a “trampoline effect”. Consumer feedback given throughout the forum shows that for some an all latex bed feels “jello-like” whilst many others can swear that there is no motion transfer whatsoever and describe it as a cloud-like experience. There is a little more detail about motion transfer in post #18 here that you may find useful as well.

Phoenix

I also noticed this issue. An yes latex transfer motion very well. It’s motion isolation is noticed when a straight up or down motion is applied. Rotating cause. Shift from the different layers.

With that said I found a way to solve mine. Keep in mind I built my own so each layer is not glued together as I wanted to try it out and never had time to back an hour them together. Glueing each layer really well to one another eliminated our issue. Which was cause a layer to shift making the co sleeper obviously feel it. With that said I do use a slab base and a transition layer between it and the matters. Make sure this is attached well too or could cause the top matters to act like a Jell-O effects. My guess is these manufacturers are not properly adhering each layer. Hope this helps someone.