Hi jbedshopper,
As I said in my last post ā¦ Iām just not sure what to tell you. There are a couple of things though that I should clarify since some of what you are saying here is not quite accurate or at least implies āblameā where I would put the emphasis more on āresponsibilityā.
First in terms of a ācomfort guaranteeā or a refund policy ā¦ I agree that this is important when you are buying online or sight unseen and I believe that a consumer is responsible for finding out about the policy here before they buy a mattress that they havenāt tested or havenāt at least tested similar mattresses using the same materials. Buying from a local manufacturer though where the pricing structure is built on the assumption that you will test the mattress is a different story. Bear in mind that everything has a cost and its not unusual at all for a local manufacturer to not offer this so that they can sell their mattresses at a lower cost to everyone and not have to build in the cost of comfort replacements or refunds into the price of their mattresses.
The value of a good local manufacturer is that you have the chance to buy a mattress that has great value that you can actually test and know ahead of time will be suitable for your needs and preferences. While you certainly may not be able to tell this in 3 minutes on a mattress ā¦ you certainly can if you spend at least 15 minutes or more on it with the help of someone who knows what to look for and test for. Perhaps it could take half an hour. If you donāt plan to actually test a mattress ā¦ then an online purchase from a manufacturer who specializes in this and offers an exchange or refund would make sense. They would have an āaverageā exchange or refund rate built in to the cost of their mattress which is why they can offer the service even though its not necessary or even desirable for a local purchase when the cost tradeoff and increased price for everyone is considered. A comfort exchange leaves the manufacturer with a mattress that cannot be resold (if they are ethical) and they are already operating at a lower profit margin than most of the industry. In cases where someone isnāt happy though ā¦ they will normally āfixā the mattress at a nominal cost rather than offer a complete exchange or a refund.
I would hope it is clear as well from my many posts on this forum that buying anything ā¦ especially a mattress ā¦ based on someone elseās opinions (āexpertā or otherwise) and using this to āreplaceā your own experience or testing is never a good idea unless you are buying from a source which offers a refund ā¦ and even then I recommend testing mattresses that use similar materials first. I also would not in any way characterize you or anyone as being my ācustomerā either directly or indirectly and I would guess that you will realize this as well with a little more reflection on what the role of any site like this really is. While my (or anyone elseās) opinions can never take into account the subjective nature of each personās sensitivities, or predict whether or not they will like the feel or characteristics of any mattress or material, it also doesnāt change the fact that latex ā¦ in the opinion of the vast majority of consumers and manufacturers and in its āspecsā ā¦ is considered a motion isolating material (at least when pressure is applied on top of the mattress). This doesnāt mean that you wonāt feel anything, but that the transfer of motion is very small in the perceptions of the vast majority and an improvement on most other choices.
I should also mention that motion isolation is usually describing the transfer of āup and downā or ārolling overā motion on a mattress. An innerspring has more āside to sideā stability than a foam core even though it will transfer more motion of the type that most people are referring to when they talk about motion transfer so perhaps this is what you are referring to. In any case ā¦ even 3 minutes on a mattress would confirm this. If I put a jug of water on one side of my latex mattress for example and then flop onto the mattress on the other side or sit down āwith forceā ā¦ the water in it moves a little and the jug hardly moves at all. If instead I push on the side of my mattress or try to get a āside to sideā motion going ā¦ both the jug and the water move much more.
I called Henry to ask him about your situation and to find out his perspective on what you were experiencing.
He explained to me that he had originally offered to come to your home to see what was happening when you first brought this to his attention but that this wasnāt possible for you at the time so you said no. When it became possible for you he then also had other commitments so the two of you werenāt able to get together till later (recently). I hope you can appreciate that this already (having a manufacturer come and visit your home to help you) is already what I consider to be āabove and beyondā.
When he came to your home and looked at your mattress he could indeed slightly feel it when you were tapping the mattress but you were tapping it on the side rather than on the top. He also made sure that the cover wasnāt somehow too tight and creating a ātrampolineā effect and this too was fine. While he wouldnāt call what he felt āmotion transferā and it was what he would consider ānormalā ā¦ it is true that latex doesnāt absorb energy in the same way as memory foam even though every mattress manufacturer would consider it as being close and considers it to be a motion isolating material. This is the nature of the material regardless of the mattress. Having said this though ā¦ if for whatever reason you are feeling something that others donāt feel or at least donāt see as an issue ā¦ then nobody can say this is āwrongā and the solution for this would be to purchase something that your testing showed you was suitable for your preferences and experience. Unfortunately this didnāt happen.
He also didnāt suggest a āpillowtopā but rather a mattress pad like a fiberbed which he thought may help isolate your head and pillow from what you were feeling. Another suggestion would be to split the comfort layer which may also help. You could also add a layer of memory foam on top of your mattress. He was hesitant to suggest a different comfort or support layer because both of you seemed to agree that in terms of pressure relief and support that the current configuration was working very well and in the end if you are sensitive to the slight side to side transfer of movement that is connected to latex then changing the layering probably wouldnāt help anyway and would likely make the pressure relief and alignment worse.
This may also be a clue to what is happening because if they really are āaudibleā below you then this would clearly be pointing to something other than the mattress because latex is certainly not āaudibleā in any way.
I wish that you had taken Henryās advice (and my own) to test a mattress before you purchased it however since that is in the past I would consider a mattress pad (not a pillowtop) in the hopes that this will solve the issue or perhaps having Henry split the comfort layer as this too may make a slight difference in your perception of movement transfer. I would also seriously investigate the possibility that something in your sleeping setup other than the mattress is the major cause of what you are feeling.
I can sympathize with your circumstances but to transfer your responsibility to at least know how the material you were considering felt and performed like for YOU or to find out the refund policies of an outlet before making a purchase if you havenāt done any testing seems very odd to me.
I believe that Henry will do whatever is in his power to do to help you resolve this (and he has already shown his willingness to do this by coming to your home) but to ask for someone else to go beyond their own responsibilities or ask him to take a loss for selling you what you insisted on buying sight unseen in spite of his (and my) suggestions to test it first before you buy it is not reasonable in my opinion. Fix it at a nominal cost if there is something identifiable to be fixed ā¦ yes. Refund or exchange it at a loss when that is not built into the prices he charges everyone ā¦ no.
I am personally an advocate of consumer education and responsibility and manufacturer service, quality, and value. Each of us is part of this process and to me itās important to identify who is responsible for what. Each consumer needs to decide what the most important parts of value are for them and make sure that the mattress and outlet they are considering has the āpiecesā that they believe are the most important.
Iām hopeful that a mattress pad or splitting the layering or any other reasonable solution (including testing for the possibility that the other parts of your sleeping system may be part of what you are feeling) can resolve this as no matter what the reason or why you may be feeling what you are feeling ā¦ I (and I know you and Henry as well) would much rather that it was resolved.
Phoenix
