So NestHaven and others, just thought i would update my status regarding the new Nest Hybrid Latex- the costa mesa showroom by me got the new ones in yesterday and let me know they were set up to try today- so went in and luckily, they had both the “old” and new Hybrid Latex models to test, and it turned out I prefer the prior one that is being replaced, as NestHaven said i would!! 
The new one IS much softer, but all in all, the medium “old” one feels more supportive, has more side support, and overall has a higher end “feel”…glad i got to test out both and am starting the exchange process asap while the current model is still available!! Gotta say, this thread helped me, thanks NestHaven and nestbedding, as well as the GREAT “nestologists” at the Costa Mesa showroom, Nicole and Christopher!! Hoping this one will be JUST RIGHT!!
Thank you, dhunn! That definitely helps us out, as we haven’t had a chance to try out the new Hybrid Natural Latex just yet at their Santa Monica location (which has the new lines in stock, I believe). Your take confirms our sense of what the revised lineup would feel like. The 14ILD Dunlop latex, although listed as a Medium feel, is likely too soft for us. I know it’s not a direct comparison, but a 14ILD Dunlop latex would typically translate into a 19ILD Talalay latex, which was too soft for us when we tried the 3" 19ILD Talalay soft topper. Our backs definitely bottomed out a bit with that softness.
I think you’re gonna like the 28ILD Talalay latex (medium feel) in the prior Hybrid Latex model from Nest. I do suggest giving it a full 30-60 days, though, for it to break in. When we tried this version out at the store, the mattress felt great. When we first got our new mattress in, it felt rather firm initially. But within 30-45 days, it hit the sweet spot. Truly one of the best mattresses we’ve experienced in well over a year of trying 8 other mattress brands. Some of the best sleep we’ve had in a long, long time. We’re hooked on the latex-innerspring hybrid combination, for sure.
Can’t thank this site, Phoenix, and Nest Bedding enough. And again, Nest Bedding continues to be fantastic to work with. We’ve already sent several people looking for a new mattress their way. We can’t imagine buying a mattress from a big chain ever again. Hopefully, Nest Bedding is around in 10-15+ years when we need our next mattress…
Hope the new mattress works for you as well, dhunn!
Thanks so much for the feedback! We will be around a long time
Keep in mind these are the configurations we recommend but you can order it in any configuration you like.
The 14 over the firm base combines for a very supportive medium since the 14 is only 3" thick, but you can flip the soft to the bottom or simply ask for a firmer piece than 14 at no additional charge
Sure thing, Nest Bedding - and glad to know you’ll be around for a while. It’s nice to know that there are still a few people/companies out there that care about making a quality product. Kudos to you for that!
And I forgot to mention the customization option in my last post. Yes, Nest Bedding has been wonderful with dialing in the comfort level based on specific comfort needs. Whether it’s a soft, medium, firm or custom-fit comfort level, you and your team have gone above and beyond to make sure we got the mattress that we needed. It’s like purchasing a tailor-made suit - your mattresses are individually-specialized and made-to-order (split firmness, etc.). Not something we encountered in our experiences with other “big-brand” mattress companies.
Like I said, we’ll certainly be recommending Nest Bedding to everyone we know who is looking for a new mattress, quality bedding, etc. Our only regret is that we didn’t start with you a year ago when we needed to replace our old mattress. That would have saved us a year of mattress-buying hell/grief. Worth the final result, though…
- What role does the 1" medium firm foam layer below the coils play in the mattress?
The 1" HD foam base layer assists the design with the following:
a. Provides a solid surface that enables the pocketed coil springs to “activate” and function efficiently.
b. Helps with stabilizing the mattress from any side sway.
c. Provide a protective bottom surface that makes the mattress compatible with most types of foundation designs.
Hi Phoenix,
I’ve had some initial discussions with Arizona Premium Mattresses about potentially building us a mattress similar to the Avocado on my side and more plush on my wife’s side. AZ recommended their Ultimate hybrid with some comfort upgrades I created a drawing of the Avocado and how the AZ Ultimate Hybrid might be configured to match. (See attached). A couple questions for you.
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AZ does not place any type of foam under the springs that I could see, so to your points listed above is that something that should be added to the mattress to gain the above benefits, or is it more of a nice to have? As you will remember, we have a slat base, so that may play a role in your response.
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Do you think the way we have designed the mattress would be noticeably more plush for a 110 lb person?
Thanks,
Hammer
Hi Hammer,
While adding a stabilization layer to the bottom of the spring unit would have the benefit of giving an evenly supportive surface for the coils to rest and sit on top of the foundation this would also add to the total cost of the mattress. For most sleepers of normal weight ranges not having a base layer between a slatted foundation and the spring unit will not create any issues but I’d still make sure that you covered all your basis and reach out directly to APM to get their perspective on the pros and cons of using a base layer and find out and about the reason(s) for not using one in their standard design. Arizona Premium is one of our Expert members of the site and I am sure they’ll be glad to clarify this for you.
Even though building your our own mattress may be a rewarding project (and you certainly seem to be having some fun with it … thanks for the visual element you added! ) I would caution anyone who ventures on the DIY path that they may be lacking the materials engineering knowledge and/or mattress design/building/testing experience needed to design a suitable mattresses and I’d keep in mind that even though the materials and layers may be similar … any change in thickness/firmness or the way they are put and held together may alter dramatically the experience and the feel of the mattress as a whole.
Every individual layer and component in a mattress (including the cover, FR barrier, any quilting material, and of course all foam layers) will affect the feel and response of every other layer and component both above and below it and the mattress “as a whole” so you would need to carefully asses the design and the specs of each mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials (Dunlop in this case, blended) in order to determine if that the mattress in its entirety will be a good “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP(Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) This is especially important when you are trying to approximate the mattress you are considering with others that use the same type of materials and components which may be just as durable but have a different design or firmness level that may be completely unsuitable for you to sleep on.
Your design has 6" of latex on top of the Pocketed Coil system. While having 6" of Plush 14-19 ILD Dunlop for your wife’s side will certainly feel plush, this construction might not be supportive enough to keep her spine in neutral alignment and she may end in a hammock position. In general, given that the support layer is the same, the thickness of comfort/transition layers and their corresponding firmness are interdependent and must be correlated to ensure proper support. If the comfort/transition layers’ thickness increase, then their firmness would need increase and be adjusted to compensate for the added thickness. Generally, the main benefit of a thicker latex mattress is that it can be more adaptable for heavier weights and multiple sleeping positions. It will compress from softer to firmer more gradually which means that there is more “range” of compression without the mattress becoming too firm for heavier weights (or parts of the body). While Avocado has 4" of comfort, your design for your wife’s side of the bed has 6" of soft foam. The difference between a 4" and a 6" comfort layer (and even 2" and 3" for the top layer) can be quite dramatic and also depends on a person’s weight, shape, and sleeping positions. Side sleepers will notice it more (they are more likely to go “through” a thinner comfort layer) and feel more of the properties of the layers below it.
Referencing Post #7 here about your experience with Avocado:
You are correct that the hips’ position in relation to the stiffer area is another variable that may influence how supported the lumbar area is. As she is quite petite then the shoulder area may also be impacted by repositioning herself on the mattress and may not solve the issue. Both you and your wife are within the normal BMI ranges (25 and 21) and the added thickness most likely would not benefit you and can be counterproductive so I would definitely recommend that you keep close to APM and discuss your proposed design to get their recommendations on a suitable ILD progression for your particular needs (especially as you already found your sweet spot in terms of comfort/support with the 2 x 2" of 14-19 ILD & 20-25ILD over the pocket coil).
In general, the thickness of a mattress or the number of layers or the thickness of any individual layers inside it is really just a side effect of the design and the design goals of a mattress and the thickness of any individual layers or the complete mattress is also only one of many variables that can affect the feel and performance of a mattress relative to any particular person (see post #2 here ) and by itself isn’t particularly meaningful (seepost #2 here and post #14 here for more about the effect of thickness)
Based upon your comments and with some guidance from APM I think you’re on the right track with your DIY. I’ll look forward to learning about your progress.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix - I’m hoping to get some expert help with an issue we’ve been having with our Nest Hybrid Latex mattress (I tried posting a new topic for this, but couldn’t find a place to do so). We ordered a Queen and a Full Hybrid Latex back in May of this year (the former version…not the current one). For both mattresses, we order the Medium one - which was supposed to come with a 28ILD Natural Talalay 3" latex insert.
While our Queen bed came with the proper 28ILD Natural Talalay latex insert (first two photos attached - showing “Latex International” manufacturer stamp and 28ILD label), our Full mattress came with a 32ILD latex insert - with only “32” written in one corner. This proved to be too firm, so we requested the proper 28ILD latex insert be sent instead. Nest Bedding did send out a replacement insert, but the replacement insert we received has no tag/marking information - except for “28” written in one corner. Even with this replacement insert, the Full mattress is still considerable firmer than our Queen mattress. We know it takes a while for latex to break in, but our Queen latex mattress has been soft, yet supportive from Day 1. The Full mattress is so firm that guests have complained about it, and we’ve tried sleeping on it, but we forced off it after a couple of nights due to back pain.
I’ve attached photos of our current Full latex insert (last four photos). We have the following questions, and are hoping to get some expert feedback on this (Phoenix, Ken from Arizona Premium Mattress, etc.):
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From the photos, is our Full latex insert actually Talalay latex (it feels more like Dunlop, as it gets firmer when compressed, which isn’t the case with our Queen Talalay insert)?
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If the Full latex insert is Talalay, is it Natural Talalay - or blended Talalay? We paid more for the Organic Hybrid Latex mattress model, specifically to get the Natural Talalay version. Do the lack of a proper tag/markings mean we received a lower-grade Talalay latex insert?
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And if the Full latex insert is Talalay, why are the latex insert markings/labels so drastically different between the Full one and the Queen one? Again, with the Queen mattress, we can see that it’s made from Latex International (now Talalay Global), and it shows the 28ILD breakdown with a tag. With the Full mattress, there aren’t any markings, hardly a tag, and simply “28” written in one corner.
I’m hoping to use the expert feedback here to follow up with Nest Bedding. This, unfortunately, is the fourth issue we’ve had with our original order (boxes damaged during delivery, torn mattress cover on our Queen mattress, wrong 32ILD insert sent with our Full mattress, and and now a stiff/overly firm Full replacement insert). While Nest has been helpful thus far, we were informed yesterday that our current Full 28ILD insert is correct, and there’s nothing else that can be done. Again, we’re hoping to get a second opinion (or two) before circling back with them, as we’re not happy with paying significant money for a second mattress that isn’t working like our Queen mattress.
Thank you!
Hi NestHaven,
My name is Todd Leslie and I am helping to lead the customer service effort at Nest Bedding. Your post was just brought to my attention by our CEO and I would love to assist. I have tried to find your order so that I could reach out directly but haven’t had much luck. Would you be willing to write to me directly at … Todd (at) nestbedding (dot) com so that I can assist you in finding a latex layer that is better for your comfort needs?
Thank you sincerely for your consideration and for being a valued member of the Nest Bedding family.
Todd Leslie
Thank you for the follow-up, Todd. I’ve sent you an email directly.
Much appreciated,
NestHaven
Hi NestHaven.
I am sorry that your guest bed is not meeting with your comfort expectations and that it is not matching your current mattress but I am very glad to see that Nest is taking good care of you. It always brings a smile on my face to see that even without being prompted they are responding almost in real time and monitor many possible channels of communication to service and assist their customers. Thanks, Nest Bedding!
The photos you posted clearly show that both your full bed and the queen bed use Talalay latex from Talalay Global/Latex International (see photo breakdown below) Depending on the ILD both Dunlop and Talalay latex will get firmer with compression but it is less noticeable for softer layers and how much will compress would also depend on the layer under as all layers work together and not sequentially.
The labels and markings inside your cover are for not to inform consumers … any type of labeling that’s typically inside the cover is for internal purposes only to keep track of different stages and specs needed in the Manufacturing process and in most cases to clearly understand what they mean you would need to have some inside knowledge. For example on the photo showing your Queen bed sticker … the SMT 6028 is a Talalay Global/Latex International part number identification and the M 28 indicates that it has been classified as a 28 ILD rating. The sticker includes a code that prints out at the test station when they test each of the 6" cores wether is it queen size or an XL size (including the date of the testing and the time. On the right-hand side of the sticker, you can read the test results. Different materials including latex have a variance across the surface of the 6" core so in one place it may be let’s say 28 ILD … and in another part of the core it may be 26 or 30. The ILD rating is usually an average of the range across the surface. Blended Talalay has less variance (=/-2 or so) than Dunlop which may vary by more (+/-4 or so). 100% natural Talalay can have a larger variance than blended Talalay.
TG tests each core in 9 locations across the surface and when all numbers are averaged they should fall within a specified softness/firmness range. While the specified rating is let’s say … 28 ILD you can an average anywhere between 26 and 30 ILD. A 4 ILD difference would be noticeable in the 3" on a top layer of a mattress and it is very possible that you’ve got a 3" top layer of your guest mattress rated “28 ILD” that is, in fact, closer to a 30 ILD vs your current mattress testing ILD that show it closer to a 26 ILD. This difference is quite significant and it would and very noticeable… Next picture is the side of a core of a queen mold made of cast aluminum with pins in it. The identification on the side surface shows a Queen Monoblock mold with its internal branding name.
Moving to the pictures of the full mattress 3" layer. The sticker with the barcode is also from TG/LI, but it is the bottom half of the same type of label that you posted for the queen bed above. Usually, the sticker is placed on the side surface of a 6" core and when the slab is cut into half to get two 3" layers… the layers will be left with either the bottom or the top half of the tag. Top shows the ILD testing points, bottom the identification barcode) Then the layers that in the cutting process lose the top part of the sticker with ILDs will be clearly labeled manually with a permanent marker to show the target ILD number of the layer. The close-up of the images show a rounder cellular structure of the rubber which is more uniform, homogenous top to bottom, and less dense for Talalay. If this was Dunlop would have a less consistent cell structure (with a wider variety of cell size, shape) and was the side of the mold the raw/contact surface with the mold walls would have been a smooth almost glossy surface looks different … (The same goes for the continuous pour Dunlop that uses a carousel belt) as the cell structure of the latex in the manufacturing process is interacting with the mold and creates a different contact surface and finish.) If this surface is cut it will look a little flaky and the bubbles less uniform and different sizes)
The next picture shows 607 - 03 that is the mold identification number which is a way for them to keep track of the assets. When they test the product and they find it to be non-compliant for ILD they can also identify what mold came out of and they use this for traceability if they try to identify any type of quality issues. Again If you look on the side of it you can see that the surface is smoother and not glossy which is a characteristic of the Talalay process.
I am not able to tell from the photos you sent if it is natural or blended (There is no organic Talalay) but I have absolutely no reason to doubt that you’ve been sent lower-grade layer intentionally…you are dealing with a Trusted Member & Manufacturer which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency, and who have a great reputation in the industry. As you’ve already experienced Nest Bedding is very responsive and never shy away to assume responsibility for any shortcomings on the rare occasions when this might happen.
Phoenix
Thank you for the detailed follow-up and expertise feedback, as always, Phoenix. That’s exactly the information that we were looking for. Good to know that we, indeed, have Talalay latex in both mattresses. Nest Bedding confirmed the same information to us as you indicated in your response.
And I think you hit the nail on the head with this assessment - “it is very possible that you’ve got a 3” top layer of your guest mattress rated ‘28 ILD’ that is, in fact, closer to a 30 ILD vs your current mattress testing ILD that show it closer to a 26 ILD. This difference is quite significant and it would and very noticeable." My sense is that is likely the case. It’s too bad - as the 26 ILD is a touch too soft on the back (though great for shoulders), and the 30 ILD is too firm for the shoulders (though great on the back). It seems that a true 28 ILD would be the sweet spot for us, but we know that it’s tough to get the ILD exactly spot-on, and that’s not Nest Bedding’s fault (no company could guarantee that).
I’m assuming, Phoenix, that we wouldn’t have any better luck with Dunlop latex? My sense there is that we’d have a whole other layer of comfort-level adjustments, as Dunlop tends to be more dense. While we might get better back support, we’d then trade in the shoulder pressure relief. Finding the right balance for softness for our shoulders, while getting enough firmness for our backs, is proving to be tricky.
Then again, we’ve been sleeping on our Queen mattress directly on the 26-28 ILD latex insert while our mattress cover is being repaired/replaced by Nest Bedding. It looks like Nest is going to send us a completely new mattress - minus the latex insert (which we’ll swap out with our current one) - so perhaps having the cover back on the latex will firm it up just enough to give us the proper balance we’re looking for. Maybe sleeping directly on the latex is making it seem softer than it actually is without the cover?
And on that note, Nest Bedding has been very consistent with their customer service, addressing each issue we’ve encountered promptly and thoroughly. While we wish the issues hadn’t occurred in the first place, we do understand that they are a smaller company - and have manufacturers/suppliers to deal with. Either way, Nest Bedding has resolved each issue promptly, and we appreciate their efforts and overall customer support.
Thanks again, too, Phoenix for the wealth of support and information on this site!
Hi NestHaven.
Glad to be of assistance!
Thank you for your update. Yes, fine-tuning sometimes involves a bit of trial and error and it Is not so straightforward but I am glad that Nest Bedding is by your side and taking good care of you. One couldn’t have asked for more from any other company and they certainly went above and beyond (and still do) ensuring that you have the layering combination for that best fits your needs… I also agree that adding back The cover especially if it is slightly taut will also firm up the overall feel but again only you can say if that is firm enough for you.
I hope that the new mattress that Nest bedding is sending will be working out for you. Keep us posted
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
Thank you again for your assistance and feedback. Simply to circle back on this matter, we received the replacement mattress casing for our Queen mattress from Nest Bedding, which included a new cover, and the new cover definitely firmed up the mattress just enough. It’s slightly firmer, likely due to having to break in the new innersprings that came with the replacement casing, but we actually like the firmness level. The slightly lower ILD with our Queen mattress - more in the 26-28 range - suits us nicely.
Our Full mattress remains a bit firmer - again, likely due to the ILD perhaps being in the higher 29-30 range (closer to Firm rather than a true Medium). We’re planning on circling back with Nest Bedding to see if that latex pad can be adjusted/replaced.
Simply curious, while we understand that Talalay latex tends to be more consistent from top to bottom as compared to Dunlop, would the fact that we’re getting the bottom 3" portion of a cut 6" Talalay latex core also be contributing to the additional firmness?
Ideally, we’d like to go with a the top 3" portion of a cut 6" Talalay latex core - since that would not only show the ILD breakdown label (we’d want something in the similar 26-28 range as our Queen), but it might be less firm given that it’s the top half of the core. Does that sound about right?
We’re not sure if this is possible to do, so we wanted to get your thoughts on this, while checking with Nest Bedding as well. Thank you…
Hi NestHeaven,
Thank you for your update. While just a short time, I am excited for your success and comfort with the “improved” mattress configuration.
Talalay latex tends to be quite consistent top to bottom, so if you had a layer slit from the top or bottom of the core it wouldn’t tend to feel too different, regardless of orientation. The Talalay process is creating vacuum to disperse the liquid latex rubber throughout the mold. which yields a more Latex efficient, consistent, rounder, foam cell structure and a foam that is less dense/less heavy, airier, more homogeneous top to bottom.
It is very unlikely that you’d feel the difference in firmness/softens of top 3" vs the bottom 3" cut from the same slab. The only reason you may wish to have the top part of the slab is that you know for sure that your layer falls within a target ILD range for the medium option that you are after. This is not something that most companies would accommodate and I am not sure if Nest would do this for you, but from my many years of experience with them they are very consumer-centric and it would not surprise me if they would go this extra mile.
Phoenix
Much appreciated, Phoenix, as always. That information is very helpful.
We’ve already heard back from Nest Bedding, and they are going to see what they can do. Again, we can’t praise Nest enough for their outstanding customer service. While there were a few bumps with our original order, they have come through - and then some - each step of the way.
After going through many challenging & painful mattress experiences with 9 other mattress brands over the past year and a half (before finding this site), we are certainly grateful to have found Nest Bedding through TMU. It’s such a relief to be getting restful sleep again. Their Hybrid Latex is hitting the sweet spot for us nicely, and we do recommend it. Definitely sold when it comes to latex, too - which we discovered through researching this site.
Many thanks to you, Phoenix - and Nest Bedding as well!
Hi NestHaven,
You’re very welcome … and thanks for the kind comments … I appreciate it.
TMU is very proud to have Nest Bedding among its members. Above all, I am certainly glad that your challenging and painful mattresses experiences came to an end and that your Nest mattress is providing you with restful sleep. After your experience with 9 mattresses within one year and all the research you did, I am sure that you could teach many of the major brand’s sale reps a thing or two. 
Phoenix
Thank you as well, Phoenix. I feel like we know WAY more about mattresses than we ever intended to know. On the flip side, though, purchasing a mattress next time (hopefully in about 10+ years) should be a relatively quick & smooth process. Latex it is from here on out…
Hi Phoenix,
A follow-up inquiry for you when you have a moment, please. Thank you!
Circling back on the issue we were having with our Nest Bedding Hybrid Latex mattress - pertaining to the mattress cover tear. Originally, we wanted simply to have the torn mattress cover replaced, not the entire mattress. We sent the cover back for replacement, but the manufacturer lost our cover, so a new mattress encasement was sent (entire mattress, incl. springs, without the latex insert). We kept our existing Talalay latex insert because we had already broken it in over 3 months, and didn’t want to have to go through another adjustment period.
While we appreciated Nest’s effort in replacing the mattress encasement, we were concerned about our replacement mattress being too firm. Nest informed us that “springs do not need breaking in - only the latex insert needs breaking in - and since you’re not replacing the latex, the mattress should feel like your existing one once replaced.” We hesitantly took their word for it. When we got the new mattress encasement in, our mattress was a bit firmer, but we chalked that up merely to being new, hoping that would wear off after a few days.
Unfortunately, 30 days in since we received the replacement encasement, our mattress is a good 20-30% firmer that the one that was replaced. It’s so firm that my partner is no longer able to sleep on her side anymore, and is constantly tossing and turning throughout the night. She is also now experiencing shoulder pain that wasn’t there before. And both of our lower backs have been aching/sore the past few weeks.
Based on that, I wanted to check with you on the following:
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Do springs in fact need time to break in? Again, having swapped out our original Talalay latex insert, we were told that our mattress would feel the same. And if it’s not the springs…
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What could be accounting for the increased firmness? Would the 1-inch layer of cotton/wool make that significant of a difference?
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And in general, what has happened to mattresses overall in the past few years? Before this last year, I could simply walk into a store, pick out a typical mattress (usually your basic spring model), and be fine with it for years. We’ve never been through so many mattress hoops as we have in the past year or so. Getting a decent-night’s rest was never such a hassle like it’s been now. Again, simply curious if something changed throughout the industry, as we’ve been challenged like never before to find simply a decent mattress.
Thank you as always for your feedback!
Hi NestHaven.
Thanks for your followup.
NestBededing is correct, spring units do not have a break-in period, The materials and design of springs are completely different than for foam and a spring system “break-in” period is not applicable. Generally, springs do not lose height, compress, or soften with use.
All mattresses will soften slightly with use, even latex and the covering and the non-woven fabric wrapping the springs, although the amount is insignificant and will also vary based upon materials being used, the cover stretches and loosens a little and the materials settle. With a latex/spring bed most adjustment you’d tend to notice will come from the fabric covering of your mattress. If the quilting pattern and materials within the encasement are the same then the cotton-wool layer should not make a difference. You can verify if the cover/encasement is too taught by opening the cover to see if this is the main contributor. If it does not make much difference and as you already eliminated the latex as a possibility then the difference in firmness appears to be coming from the coil system used in the mattress. I suggest as usual that you contact Nest to check if that is the case.
Phoenix
Thank you for the follow-up, Phoenix. We are working with Nest Bedding to handle this issue. We appreciate your feedback as well.