can you please tell us if the Beautyrest Black Kate Luxury Firm Pillow Top Mattress can compare to the Winkbed?
it was suggested to us if we wanted to try out something close to the Winkbed we could go to a mattress store, that the closes mattress to it would be the Beautyrest Black ? we did that and liked the Beautyrest Black Kate Luxury Firm Pillow Top Mattress very much but their âfirmâ didânt really feel that firm which was good for us also the price at Sears was $3139 with tax after what they said was a 60% discount was a bit too steep for us.
Hi Martin,
The first âruleâ of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best âmatchâ for you in terms of âcomfortâ or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) or how a mattress will âfeelâ to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or âtheory at a distanceâ that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or if you canât test a mattress in person then your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can âmatchâ or âapproximateâ another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress âas a wholeâ so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be very unlikely) then there really isnât a way to match one mattress to another one in terms of âcomfortâ and PPP based on the specifications of the mattress.
Matching in terms of firmness or âfeelâ:
Mattress manufacturers generally try to differentiate their mattress from the mattresses made by other manufacturers and donât normally try to âmatchâ another mattress that is made by a different manufacturer so while you may find similar mattresses that use âsimilarâ materials or designs and there would be many others that are in a similar general category (see this article) ⌠itâs very unlikely that you will find another mattress that is specifically designed to âmatchâ or âapproximateâ the Winkbeds mattress.
Unless a manufacturer specifically says in their description of a mattress that one of their mattresses in the same general category is designed to âmatchâ or âapproximateâ another one in terms of firmness or âfeelâ (or they are very familiar with both mattresses and can provide reliable guidance about how they compare based on the âaveragesâ of a larger group of people) ⌠the only reliable way to know how two mattresses would compare for you in terms of how they âfeelâ or in terms of firmness or PPP would be based on your own careful testing or actual sleeping experience on both of them.
There are also no âstandardâ definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like âmediumâ for someone else or even âsoftâ for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they ârateâ a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.
While your own careful testing or personal experience is the most reliable way to know whether any mattress is a good âmatchâ for you in terms of comfort and PPP ⌠when you canât test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help âtalk you throughâ the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and âfeelâ of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best âmatchâ for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the âaveragesâ of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about âmatchingâ their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.
Matching in terms of durability:
While I canât speak to how a mattress will feel or how different mattresses will compare in terms of comfort and PPP for someone else ⌠outside of âcomfortâ and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) the most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you canât âfeelâ and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing all the specifics of its design and construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label (or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new) so I would always make sure that you find out the information listed here so you can compare the materials and components to the quality/durability guidelines here to confirm that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.
All the major brands (such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta) tend to use lower quality materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay and I would avoid all of them completely along with any mattress where you arenât able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here).
Beautyrest Black Kate Luxury Firm Pillow Top Mattress:
Based on the information here and here and using the foam densities that are listed in the descriptions of other Beautyrest Black mattresses here ⌠these are the layers and components of this mattress along with my comments about each layer âŚ
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: us-mattress.com/simmons-black-kate-luxfm-pt.html
Quilting Layers:
.75" GelTouch Foam: This is a 1.5 lb polyfoam layer which is a little lower density material than the 1.8 lb minimum density I would normally suggest in the upper layers of a mattress.
1" Luxury Firm Comfort Foam: This is a 1.65 lb polyfoam layer which is a little bit higher quality/density but is still just below the 1.8 lb minimum density I would normally suggest in the upper layers of a mattress.
Comfort Layers:
2" AirCool Memory Foam: This is a 2.1 lb memory foam layer which is a very low quality/density material.
.5" Micro Diamond Infused AirCool Memory Foam: This is a 4.5 lb memory foam layer which is a good quality material.
1.5" Micro Pocketed Coil: Microcoils are a good quality and durable component.
.5" Dynamic Response Memory Foam: This is a 3.2 lb memory foam layer which is a low quality material
Support System:
Verifoam Advanced Pocketed Coil System: This is a good quality component
.5" Energy Foam: This is a 1.2 lb polyfoam layer but since itâs on the very bottom of the mattress it wouldnât be a weak link in the mattress.
Ventilated AirCool Foam Encasement: This is the foam that surrounds the pocket coil and is used for edge support. They donât list the quality/density of this material.
As you can see ⌠there are a total of 4.25" of materials in the top 6.25" of the mattress that are either low quality materials or very low quality materials that are much more than âabout an inch or so of lower quality/density or unknown materialsâ that I suggest in the quality/durability guidelines and would be a weak link in this mattress. Like the other major brand mattresses ⌠I would avoid it completely at any price.
Winkbeds:
You can see some of my comments about Winkbeds along with many of the other âsimplified choiceâ mattresses in post #2 in this topic along with post #2 here. A forum search on winkbed (you can just click the link) will also bring up more comments and feedback about it as well.
As you can see ⌠it has much less lower quality materials than the Beautyrest Black Kate Luxury Firm Pillow Top but it does include 2" of 1.5 lb polyfoam which is ânot badâ but is also more than âabout an inch or so of lower quality/density or unknown materialsâ that I suggest in the guidelines and would be âon the edgeâ of being a weak link in the mattress in terms of durability.
Just in case you havenât read it yet ⌠the first place I would start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ⌠and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.
Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure youâve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best âmatchâ for you in terms of âcomfortâ and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesnât turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the âvalueâ of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists (based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you).
Phoenix
thanks for all your info⌠weâve ordered a WinkbedâŚ
Hi Martin,
Congratulations on your new mattress 
You certainly chose the better quality/value choice IMO out of the two mattresses you were considering and Iâm looking forward to your comments and feedback once youâve received it and have had the chance to try it out and see how you like it.
Phoenix
you got it!
stunning mattress!!!
the day it arrived I took the opportunity to catch 40 winks in the afternoon
and as I got into bed I let out an involuntary âwhoaaaaââŚ
a bad back ache that had started a week earlier to my surprise
felt better after I got up and after two nights sleep vanishedâŚ
call it psychosomatic if you want but I donât think so!!!
wife had the same reaction when she first got into bedâŚ
we are very happy campers!!!
Hi Martin,
Thanks for taking the time to share your initial comments and impressions ⌠I appreciate it
Phoenix