Brooklyn Bedding has changed materials

I had just edited my post to reflect that I ended up getting the Dreamfoam Eurotop King Size - We shall see how that goes!

It looked to be closer to the BME original and Iā€™m hoping it will provide me a close feel to my current mattress.

Hi Kbyy88,

Congratulations on your new Dreamfoam mattress purchase! :cheer: You certainly chose something using good quality and durable materials. After youā€™ve confirmed your plushness level with Dreamfoam and have received your mattress, I hope that youā€™ll be able to provide some feedback once youā€™ve had a chance to sleep upon it for a while.

Phoenix

Yes I will, I found it very useful when people came back to provide an update!

Hi Kbxy88,

Looking forward to it!

Phoenix

So I went ahead about purchased the Medium mattress from BME. Iā€™ve only slept on it 3 nights so far, but this thing is rather firm. My initial thoughts are too firm for me to be honest. And this is someone who thought he liked firm mattressesā€¦

Iā€™m a slide sleeper and Iā€™m tossing and turning quite often in the night because there is not enough sink for my shoulder to sleep normally, I feel like I am at a slight angle on my side. I also have some soreness/pain in my shoulder joint because of the pressure. Iā€™ve never experienced this before. Finally Iā€™m not sure if this is related but my trapezes muscle on the same shoulder side seems inflamed and it is hard for me to turn my head in that direction without pain.

My girlfriend loves the bed on the other hand. I will say for my back the bed is good too, in terms of I do not wake up with any back pain. I just donā€™t know what to do about this shoulder issue, which is something I can nail down to being the firmness of the bed.

Should I walk on it to loosen it up just in the shoulder area? Ask BME for the topper? Exchange for soft? Iā€™m a bit confused right nowā€¦ At least I did not end up getting the firm, I cannot imagine that works for any side sleeper.

P.S. if it helps Iā€™m 5ā€™10, 160 pounds

Hi ryan23,

Congratulations on your new BME mattress! :cheer:

Regarding breaking-in any new mattress, there will be an adjustment period for any new mattress or sleeping system as the mattress loses some of its ā€œfalse firmnessā€ and the cover stretches and loosens a little and your body gets used to a sleeping surface that is different from what it is used to (see post #3 here). This would typically be a few weeks but it can be shorter or longer depending on the specifics of the person and the mattress.

Sleeping upon the product for three nights wouldnā€™t be enough for either you to adjust to the new mattress (losing some of your previous ā€œlearned alignmentā€) or for the mattress to ā€œbreak-inā€. Walking across the mattress on your hands and knees is something that forum members have previously done to help expedite this breaking process, and thereā€™s certainly nothing wrong with doing that. With mattresses using firmer high-density polyfoam cores like the BME, there seems to be quite a bit of feedback in the two-three week range where people start to adjust to the mattress and the mattress also begins to soften just a bit.

One other thing to evaluate would be your pillow, as with any new mattress you will sink in at a different level than as you did on your previous mattress, and it may be that you need to adjust the thickness of the ā€œbed for your headā€. Soreness in the trapezius I-IV, rhomboids, levator scapulae and so on (lower cervical/upper thoracic area) are most often pillow related, but it of course could be a combination of the pillow and adjusting to the new mattress.

I would recommend sleeping upon the new product for a few weeks at least before potentially contacting Brooklyn Bedding with any thoughts of manipulating the comfort. But if it does come to that point, at least you did make a good choice of a product that does allow for options after the purchase.

Phoenix

On the topic of the bed softening up, I ended up with the memory foam gel swirl topper from them (sent to me free) to help break in the BME. I mostly sleep on one half of the bed, and have just passed the 30 day mark. I can actually feel the difference between the two halves of the bed right now - the half with the topper that I normally sleep on is now a little more squishy than I like (I sleep on my side but I often read on my belly in bed and feel the extra ā€œsinkā€) and the side I donā€™t sleep on usually is at ā€œjust rightā€ squishiness. This tells me the mattress doesnā€™t just need time to expand, sleeping on it does really accelerate it noticeably. I will be spending some time on the other side of the bed so that it can also break in, and then the topper may no longer be necessary. The difference is so significant that if Iā€™m in the middle I feel a slight tendency to roll, like Iā€™m on a slope!

Hi skysongz,

Thank you for your update and details of your current process of how your BME mattress is ā€œbreaking-inā€. I hope things continue to move in a positive direction for you, and I look forward to your next update. Youā€™re probably correct that eventually the topper will not be necessary for your comfort preference.

Phoenix

So let me tell my storyā€¦
In May I bought a Brooklyn Bedding mattressā€¦ I fell in love with it the first nightā€¦ since then I met a woman and we started datingā€¦
She also fell in love with my mattress, said she has had the best sleep everā€¦ And I can agree with thatā€¦ She liked it so much she wanted to buy one alsoā€¦ So she ordered it, was so excited when it cameā€¦ Tossed out her old mattress
Made the bed and hopped inā€¦

Hard as a rockā€¦ Something is wrongā€¦ after comparing , the beds were both medium firmness but the mattress sides were differentā€¦

In a nutshell.,. The new style bed is not the best sleep you will ever have if you slept on the old style firstā€¦ it is not the cloud of latex foam you rest so peacefully on ā€¦ the new style feels like a block of hard foam.

Dear Brooklyn beddingā€¦ I tried to promote your product and tell everyone how much I liked itā€¦ But you Fā€™ed up and desided to cheap out and change your bottom lineā€¦
By switching to a cheaper foam and conseal it under a fancy name Titanflex.

Iā€™m now looking for a latex foam mattress of another brandā€¦ to make my girlfriend happyā€¦
Even tho I am happy with my mattress, my girlfriend is not happy with her, so there for I am not happyā€¦

Now you have Two unhappy customersā€¦

Since your girlfriend was so unhappy with the BB BME from the time she got it, why wouldnā€™t she either exchange it for the softer version or else return it for a full refund under their money back satisfaction guarantee? That seems like the logical course of action.

In the process of that nowā€¦ But
BB wants you to sleep on it for 30 days

And a replacement wonā€™t be the same as mineā€¦

Hi BG4,

Iā€™m sorry your girlfriend doesnā€™t like the feel of the new BME mattress :frowning: , as she was expecting it to feel exactly like your old one, which of course it wouldnā€™t, as it uses different materials.

Mattress companies are constantly updating their products and models rarely stay the same year after year, so your girlfriendā€™s case is a good example that as a consumer if youā€™re trying to approximate the same product bought at a previous time, no matter how recent, the onus is upon you to always check the specifications on the law tag of the mattress your trying to compare to just to double-check if things have changed in any way in the current model youā€™d be ordering. As she didnā€™t personally order your mattress back in May, Iā€™m sure she didnā€™t notice the new introduction of the TitanFlex foam and thought nothing of it, assuming it to be like your mattress. Itā€™s unfortunate, but it happens at times.

You are correct that the new mattress uses a high-density, high-performance polyfoam in the place of the upper latex layers, and that while still buoyant, has a feel different from latex. The polyfoam core is also harder (36 vs. 32 ILD) than the old version. There also seems to be a bit longer break-in process with the new mattress. But I wouldnā€™t go so far as to take your opinion of the new mattress and turn it into a de facto statement, which of course it isnā€™t. The change in design has been discussed quite a bit here on the forum, and many people like the new feel. But they were also aware of the change in specifications and not caught ā€œoff-guardā€ like your girlfriend apparently was.

[quote]Dear Brooklyn beddingā€¦ I tried to promote your product and tell everyone how much I liked itā€¦ But you Fā€™ed up and desided to cheap out and change your bottom lineā€¦
By switching to a cheaper foam and conseal it under a fancy name Titanflex.[/quote]

Of course, you have absolutely no personal knowledge of any of the "factsā€™ you just stated. You have no idea of the cost of the new polyfoam core compared to the previous generation, nor do you have any idea of cost of the TitanFlex foam, nor the cost of the research and development that went into the product, nor the market research and reasoning behind the change in design (you can read about some of the explanations here).

Not liking the feel of a new version of a mattress doesnā€™t entitle site members here to make unsubstantiated claims about the motives for a mattress companyā€™s decision to make a change in product design. Youā€™re certainly entitled to your opinion on the feel of this or any other mattress (as many people discuss here), and Iā€™m happy to have discussions about that, but your commentary needs to be fact-based and not what is in essence an ad hominem attack against a company.

And to add to Sweet Dreamā€™s point (thanks Sweet Dreams), your girlfriend fortunately did have the foresight to purchase something that does have a good return policy, so in the end sheā€™ll be able to get a refund and find another product.

And hereā€™s the good news. If you want the old design, it was pointed out yesterday by someone on the forum that the old version can still be found in a few places online, like here.

I do appreciate your post, because it allows me to be able to point out (as I do from time to time) how mattresses change in design and the consumerā€™s responsibility to compare specifications before making a purchase, especially when trying to ā€œmatchā€ certain mattresses.

Phoenix

Iā€™m curious, I contacted dream foam to see the ILD of the core of the mattress I ordered (eurotop) and they said they donā€™t measure by ILD, That itā€™s a 2lb high density polyfoam. Is it that itā€™s different foams measured different ways? Can you explain?

Hi Kbxy88,

Dreamfoam is correct that the durability/quality of polyfoam is best expressed by the density of the foam (mass per unit volume), and not the ILD / IFD (plushness). Density and ILD/IFD are not necessarily related in polyfoam.

As a consumer, all the information you need to know is in this article. While the specs that affect the quality and durability of the layers and components are important to know, I would consider ILD/IFD information to be a legitimate part of what many manufacturers consider to be ā€œproprietaryā€ information and it can add to the confusion for most consumers anyway. I would also keep in mind that ILD is only one of several variables or ā€œspecsā€ that will determine how soft or firm an individual layer or a mattress ā€œas a wholeā€ will feel to different people (see post #4 here). Many mattress manufacturers also are aware that people attempt to copy their designs with DIY componentry, so disclosing ILD/IFD is something they choose not to do, as eventually your own personal testing will tell you more about the appropriateness of any product for your needs than ILD specs.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix.
I just wanted to say thank you for the service you provide. I have been lurking for a while and think I have decided on a BME. My last step will be to give them a call to answer some questions.
They have what seems to be a decent sale on right now. $750 (-$50 at checkout) for queen, plus 2 pillows, plus sheets.
My question is, historically, is this a good deal? Do you how often they run these ā€œsalesā€?

First, thanks Phoenix for taking the time to reply to my perhaps too soon commentary. The bed has softened up noticeably since last week, to where I donā€™t have the pressure point pain anymore. Iā€™m still at an odd angle, but itā€™s improving. And I still have some odd neck strain but I think you are right it is on the pillows and not the mattress. Those pillows that come with the mattress are very large and may be knocking my alignment off.

Phoenix or anyone else, do you have a good resource on how to choose a proper pillow? I think that would be my next step.

Hi ryan23,

Iā€™m happy to hear that you are adjusting to your new BME mattress (and the mattress is adjusting to you)! Thatā€™s great news. :cheer:

Regarding pillows, there is a pillow thread here that you may find helpful.

Phoenix

[quote=ā€œPhoenixā€ post=73498]
And yes, youā€™re correct that ILD is measured differently in latex and polyfoam. ILD in latex is usually measured with a 6" thick layer of foam and itā€™s basically the weight that it takes to compress a 50 sq in round metal foot into the foam by 25% (which would be 1.5"). This is different from polyfoam which is measured with a layer of foam that is only 4" thick so it would only be compressed by 1" (and the ILD number would be lower than latex). So first of all latex ILD is not directly comparable to polyfoam ILD. Some latex manufacturers also produce cores that are a different thickness which would also produce a different ILD rating compared to testing ILD on a 6" core. There are also different testing protocols for ILD so in some cases the ILD would be tested at 40% compression instead of 25% compression which would also produce a different result.
Phoenix[/quote]

ugh. looks like ILD ratings donā€™t mean as much as I thought

So I spent my first night on my Dreamfoam Eurotop mattress. Because Iā€™m very used to a pillow top I was trying to get as close to that as I possibly could. The dream foam came and itā€™s 66% Urethane Foam and 34% Latex. (It doesnā€™t say Talalay but Iā€™ll assume it is?) It has 19 written on the mattress tag, which Iā€™m thinking it the ILD. I requested a level 9 on the scale of 1-10.

To the touch itā€™s very soft so I was optimistic!

After sleeping on it, not so much. It feels extremely firm. I have read that there is a false firmness and Iā€™m not positive, but I assume with Talalay as well? My concern is HOW MUCH of this false firmness could there be. I do have 1 more level of softness I could go up, but given just how firm this feels, Iā€™m not sure it will make that big of an impact.

Obviously this is only night #1, but I do have some concerns and Iā€™m going to continue my research process with hopes that thing works itself out during the trial period.

Hi AJohnson,

ILD numbers are quite useful, but it depends upon the material being considered as to that level of importance. Sometimes it is simply a comfort designation but not an indicator of quality (like in polyfoam), and in other circumstances it is a reliable way to compare the softness of certain materials to each other (in Talalay latex), and in other cases can be a reliable tool for comparing softness, but not as accurate as density (as in Dunlop latex). So it all depends upon the context.

Phoenix