Brooklyn Bedding has changed materials

[sleepyhead123]

I emailed support re: returns reiterating basically what I said in this thread. They’re offering a complimentary mattress topper. I’m skeptical that it will make the difference, but I’m willing to give it a shot. Obviously throwing a topper on will take less effort for both parties than trying to return/refund the entire mattress, so I would love for it to work out. On the other hand, I wonder if this is a bad idea in the long term since I’m essentially taking a mattress that intrinsically is uncomfortable for me and contriving it to be comfortable using an add-on. On the other-other hand, if I’m not mistaken, firmer mattresses last a bit longer so maybe it’s a better deal in the long run? I don’t know.

I don’t know if this information is useful since this is probably the typical process for anyone who’s tried to return one of these mattresses.

[phoenix]

Hi sleepyhead123,

Thanks for your update.

I emailed support re: returns reiterating basically what I said in this thread. They’re offering a complimentary mattress topper. I’m skeptical that it will make the difference, but I’m willing to give it a shot.

Based upon what you stated here on the thread, and communicating with Brooklyn Bedding via email as opposed to a more detailed phone call (I know that’s your preference), that’s about the best solution I think they’d be able to come up for you.

Obviously throwing a topper on will take less effort for both parties than trying to return/refund the entire mattress, so I would love for it to work out. On the other hand, I wonder if this is a bad idea in the long term since I’m essentially taking a mattress that intrinsically is uncomfortable for me and contriving it to be comfortable using an add-on.

It’s a common (and often quite effective) solution offered by many mattress companies and stores, both online and brick and mortar, to achieve more plushness in a mattress, so I hope it alleviates your issues as well. If not, you still have your ability to return the mattress if things don’t turn out as well as you had hoped.

On the other-other hand, if I’m not mistaken, firmer mattresses last a bit longer so maybe it’s a better deal in the long run? I don’t know.

The uppermost layers of a mattress go through the most mechanical stress, so in theory using this extra topper can “spare” the foams beneath it a bit.

I’ll be interested in learning of your results.

Phoenix

[sleepyhead123]

I would have preferred phone but the return policy page shows their support email address three times but doesn’t show their phone number at all. Looking again I see their number is in the footer of the webpage, I guess I missed that.

My coworker said he returned a mattress of this sort from another manufacturer and the process was to donate the mattress to charity in order to receive a refund. I don’t know if that’s Brooklyn Bedding’s process but whatever it is “returning” a mattress sounds kind of involved and I’d like to avoid it if I can.

I’d definitely like to see what the topper does but I’m also not confident that it’ll work given the issues I described. But it will be an interesting experiment.

[phoenix]

Hi sleepyhead123,

I would have preferred phone but the return policy page shows their support email address three times but doesn’t show their phone number at all. Looking again I see their number is in the footer of the webpage, I guess I missed that.

Correct. And the blue “Contact Us” button on that page will also pull up their contact form, chat link and phone number as well.

My coworker said he returned a mattress of this sort from another manufacturer and the process was to donate the mattress to charity in order to receive a refund. I don’t know if that’s Brooklyn Bedding’s process but whatever it is “returning” a mattress sounds kind of involved and I’d like to avoid it if I can.

Yes, in most cases they will request that you have the mattress donated, which not only keeps it out of a landfill but also helps someone less fortunate. Many charitable groups offer local pickup service, but if you would have trouble coordinating this you should contact Brooklyn Bedding and they will see what they can do to help you with that situation.

I’d definitely like to see what the topper does but I’m also not confident that it’ll work given the issues I described. But it will be an interesting experiment.

Do your best to go into this with an open mind, as this is very similar to ordering a mattress that would have a bit of extra surface plushness already “built into” it, but in this case it’s simply a separate topper, and from what you described an extra layer of surface comfort could very well be what you need. But the proof will be in your own testing. Good luck!

Phoenix

[sleepyhead123]

Better, but probably still not soft enough. No longer have pain in the soft parts of my sides, significantly less back pain (but not 0%), but I’m not certain it’s as comfortable as I would like. My arms still feel a bit pinched in when I sleep on my sides. On some level it’s almost frustrating with the topper because I sink in a bit more, but then it sort of bottoms out on the actual mattress. I’ll evaluate it a bit more but my gut feeling is that this isn’t working for me.

What happens when I put a topper on a topper? lol. At that point it’s like having constructed a mattress on top of my actual mattress, which it feels like I’ve already done to some degree.

[phoenix]

Hi sleepyhead123,

What happens when I put a topper on a topper?

This can create more surface comfort, but you will also increase the risk (depending upon the overall layering) of sinking in too deeply and negatively impacting your alignment.

Phoenix

[sleepyhead123]

I contacted them again about a return. Right now they are talking about creating a custom mattress to suit my individual needs, with independent coils, which sounds pretty neat if it isn’t somehow BS. They sent me a questionnaire of sorts asking me various questions about how I sleep and my preferences regarding bedding.

It would be cool if there were a service for customizing one’s mattress: A web application that basically asks things like weight, height, sleeping positions, current mattress versus how much that mattress is comfortable, and so on. Could automate the process of creating a custom mattress for each user (or at least determining the best of a handful of predetermined configurations) and probably cut down on returns significantly. But I digress. (I’m a software developer so I’m always looking for a “problem” to automate.)

[anotherscott]

@sleepyhead123

I contacted them again about a return. Right now they are talking about creating a custom mattress to suit my individual needs, with independent coils, which sounds pretty neat if it isn’t somehow BS.

This is really interesting, that they are open to customizations. But… coils? Aren’t these all foam of some sort?

But the idea of perhaps being able to order a king with one firmness on one half and a different on the other is something that might work nicely for me.

[sleepyhead123]

@anotherscott

This is really interesting, that they are open to customizations.

Yeah. I didn’t ask for customization, they offered it.

@anotherscott

But… coils? Aren’t these all foam of some sort?

That’s what I thought… But they’re the ones who brought it up. So I’m kind of confused about it too. Like, would it still be compressed and in a box? Do they manufacture all manner of mattresses? Is this a more recent thing? Am I being misled somehow? Are the coils made out of foam? I really don’t get it. Interested to see where this goes.

[phoenix]

Hi sleepyhead,

I contacted them again about a return. Right now they are talking about creating a custom mattress to suit my individual needs, with independent coils, which sounds pretty neat if it isn’t somehow BS. They sent me a questionnaire of sorts asking me various questions about how I sleep and my preferences regarding bedding.

That’s quite accommodating of them to offer a different customization for you. Brooklyn Bedding has a very large facility and they produce a wide array of products, including those using innersprings, so I’m impressed that they are going with service here that I would consider “above and beyond”.

Regarding your comment about thinking this could be “BS” or that you might be “misled” (from one of your follow-up posts), here you have a manufacturer going out of their way to create a product outside of their normal offering in order to attempt to find something that will suit your particular needs, and I’d consider that a positive, and changing the support unit and (potentially) upper comfort layers will definitely result in a different level of comfort. More than likely they are considering something using a pocketed-style spring unit, which would arrive compressed to your home, just like your previous mattress. And while there’s of course no guarantee that this item will work for you, at least they’re making an attempt to find something you might like using a different style of support structure. Hopefully you’ll have a positive result.

It would be cool if there were a service for customizing one’s mattress: A web application that basically asks things like weight, height, sleeping positions, current mattress versus how much that mattress is comfortable, and so on. Could automate the process of creating a custom mattress for each user (or at least determining the best of a handful of predetermined configurations) and probably cut down on returns significantly. But I digress. (I’m a software developer so I’m always looking for a “problem” to automate.)

There are many smaller and more local manufacturers who do offer this service, although it has become more complicated with the passing of 16 CFR Part 1633 in 2007, that requires prototypes to be burn-tested for various configurations, so depending upon the number of burn-tests a manufacturer has done or has pooled with them, it can limit some of their options, and certainly has curtailed the ability for many licensees to customize as before 1633 was passed.

Regarding a mattress selecting algorithm, I can see how that would be an attractive option for you, being a software developer . There have been many experts in the field of sleep ergonomics who have attempted to do just that, but there are entirely too many variables involved, both in materials and the individual using the mattress, to create any sort of reliable predictor of what sleeping surface and combination of materials will work best for each and every individual. To get a bit of an idea of the complexity of the subject, the book Back and Bed by Bart Haex is a good primer on the subject. While nothing is of course 100%, overall the best resources we have are the experience of knowledgeable retailers or manufacturers who have the ability to draw on their knowledge of componentry and a historical database of different individuals and how they tend to respond to different combinations of materials. There’s a bit of art and science involved in the process. If you ever do develop such an algorithm, I guarantee you’ll eventually be able to afford your own island or two somewhere warm!

Here’s hoping that you have a positive result with the new mattress Brooklyn Bedding creates for you.

Phoenix

[sleepyhead123]

Sorry, my skepticism has less to do with Brooklyn Bedding as a company and more to do with my life experiences. Never have I asked to return a high-priced item and gotten the response “we’ll just ship you over a customized replacement at no cost to you”, so the whole thing still sounds absurd. Don’t get me wrong; I’m elated by this response, it’s just that my too-good-to-be-true alarm went off. They’re not even requiring that I first donate my extant mattress first, but they’ve advised me to do so (and I shall, since a king-sized mattress takes up a lot of physical space).

I inquired about the construction of the replacement mattress:

This is an extremely high end hybrid style mattress with a Quantum Edge Bolsa coil system consisting of approximately 860 coils in a queen which we can now have roll packed and shipped like our foam mattresses.

A wee bit confused because Quantum Edge and Bolsa seem to be two different types of coils and the rep almost made it sound like one, so perhaps it will be a combination of the two? That said, I’m less concerned about the precise details of the construction and more concerned about the practical real-life comfortability of the mattress. I moved here at the beginning of May and it’s been a long journey to get the place set up and I would love to be able to say “my bed is complete”.

The fact that they’re making the return/replacement process stress-free goes a long way for me in term of customer satisfaction. I thought it was gonna suck, I’m so glad it’s going to be easy.

[Manimal]

Come on now Sleepyhead- you’re a software developer- google it (JK- I work in a tech oriented job as well and sometimes would rather take a passenger seat when it comes to non-work related computing activities.)

There’s a number of different variations of “pocketed coil” units out there- generally speaking, they’re usually “better” overall than other types of non-pocketed spring units if they come from a quality manufacturer (like L&P). Many companies are using them more now with latex and other foams because they seem to be more “adaptable” and reactive to different body types- i.e.- a pc unit often has the ability to adjust to a broader weight/BMI range than other types of springs and polyfoam… even latex in many cases (it’s also worth noting that heavier weights are probably better off going with a thicker gauge coil).

A quick Google search brought up the following on one of the L&P sites:

"Quantum Edge is available with the following ComfortCore units:

Combi-Zone®, which features strategically placed zones that offer great support to the hips, back, and shoulders.
Bolsa®, our standard unit that provides even surface support and absorbs partner movement.
Bolsa® Nested, which features a nested center-zoning section for enhanced back support.
OmniTouch™, a unit that offers zoning options to create areas of greater support."

So essentially, quantum edge is available with at least two different Bolsa pocketed units (there could even be other iterations). There’s a lot of nuances when it comes to different pocketed units like the coil gauge, twist/shape/height, spring rate, how the coils and units are “connected”, etc., but at a general level, pocketed coils are pocketed coils. Different units will definitely have different feels but they’ll all tend to have less motion transfer and more conforming support than non-pocketed units. Many people also feel that wrapped coils are more “hygienic” than other types of continuous/connected units.

Again though, I’m making a number of generalizations here and defer to Phoenix for more in depth information. In any event, it sounds like BB is making a pretty attractive offer… just realize that you likely won’t have further recourse if this one doesn’t work out. However, due to the “adaptability” of pocketed coils, I think there’s a good chance it could work, especially if they’re looking to gather information in a survey-type format and through further conversation.

In case you were wondering, I’m fairly unbiased here and actually prefer foam (as a base layer) at this time over coils for a couple different reasons which I won’t get into right now (and which shouldn’t have any bearing on your decision).

[sleepyhead123]

Huh. I did Google it, that’s what I was confused. He says “Quantum Edge Bolsa” in his email but Quantum Edge and Bolsa seem to be two distinct types of coils. There’s coils called “Quantum Edge” and there’s coils called “Bolsa”, and I’ve looked up both but not sure what the actual composition of the replacement mattress will be. I imagine Quantum Edge coils along the perimeter with Bolsa coils in the center.

This is what I’m looking at ComfortCore (Fabric-Encased) - L&P Bedding Group

[Manimal]

The “Quantum Edge” refers to the coils around the perimeter… if you review the quote I pasted in the last post (also from the beddingcomponents.com site), you can see the quantum edge is available with at least two Bolsa coil units. I agree all of the different variations can be a bit confusing. Regardless, I wouldn’t get carried away with the semantics and marketing labels… Brooklyn Bedding should be able to provide the details of the coil system (height, gauge, etc.) along with its attributes.

[sguo1]

Hi Manimal - would you mind elaborating on why you prefer foam base over coiled springs? I was always told that coiled springs will elongate the life of the mattress so I’m very interested to hear your opinion. Thanks!

[phoenix]

Hi sleepyhead123,

Sorry, my skepticism has less to do with Brooklyn Bedding as a company and more to do with my life experiences. Never have I asked to return a high-priced item and gotten the response “we’ll just ship you over a customized replacement at no cost to you”, so the whole thing still sounds absurd. Don’t get me wrong; I’m elated by this response, it’s just that my too-good-to-be-true alarm went off.

While I can understand being cynical of such an offer based upon your “life experiences”, it would be unjustified in this case, as Brooklyn Bedding does have a history of working with their customers in unique situations to assist them in finding a comfort level that suits their needs. It’s a nice bonus! :cheer:

A wee bit confused because Quantum Edge and Bolsa seem to be two different types of coils and the rep almost made it sound like one, so perhaps it will be a combination of the two?

The representative was correct that this is one innerspring unit, called the Quantum Edge Bolsa. The Quantum springs are smaller in diameter and can be used in their own spring unit, in the middle zone of some spring units, or along the edge of certain spring units (called the Quantum Edge). The Bolsa refers to the style of spring used in the main body of the spring unit, which is a quite robust spring. You can see a partial photo of such a spring unit here.

That said, I’m less concerned about the precise details of the construction and more concerned about the practical real-life comfortability of the mattress.

Based upon the information you’ve provided them, Brooklyn Bedding is attempting to manipulate the componentry to match the comfort you desire (it’s good to have knowledgeable manufacturers B) to do this so you don’t have to be so concerned with componentry, as you mentioned), but in the end the result (hopefully positive) will be determined by your personal opinion once you try out the new mattress.

The fact that they’re making the return/replacement process stress-free goes a long way for me in term of customer satisfaction. I thought it was gonna suck, I’m so glad it’s going to be easy.

Even if the result fails, it is nice when a company tries their best to satisfy their clients – I agree.

Phoenix

[Manimal]

Hi s.guo1- sorry for the delay… I prefer foam for a few reasons- for one, there’s not really any room for critters like dust mites or bed bugs to hang out since the foam occupies the majority of the space. Also, assuming the foam is good quality and open-cell/breathable, the environment will further discourage critter issues along with mold and mildew. Aside from that, foam is usually “quieter” than springs and can be still be responsive while offering better motion dampening, if you will (although individually wrapped coils will help mitigate this issue). I also have some concerns (arguably paranoia) regarding coils and EMF’s… this is admittedly a somewhat controversial subject but there’s just a lot we don’t know yet, so I’m not going to apologize for playing it safe (if you’re not sure what EMF’s are and/or the relationship to metal coils, a Google search should provide plenty of info).

Best,
Manimal

[sguo1]

Thanks Manimal! This is very helpful color. Had no idea about EMF - am glad I got a foam mattress but will read up on EMF regardless because I’m sure there are other things in the home that are causing trouble.

[phoenix]

Hi s.guo1,

I wanted to add a few notes for you as well, although I’m not Manimal.

Regarding dust mites, I’ll add that the key is to keep your skin cell population as low as possible to keep their food source low, so washing sheets and keeping floors swept really helps. Also, a sleeping environment that is cool and low in relative humidity is also important.

Regarding EMFs, you can see some comments about innersprings and electromagnetic (EMF) fields in posts #2 and #3 here. It’s certainly not something that would concern me in any way, but I don’t dismiss Manimal’s opinion on the topic.

I’m certainly not a health professional or an expert in electromagnetic fields but EMF fields from mattress innersprings are a very controversial subject and there are certainly some people that believe they are harmful although I’m not one of them. I have seen and read many articles that include many of these types of comments about innersprings being a “health” issue because of electromagnetic fields … but I have never seen any specific evidence that is compelling to me and most of these types of articles use some very non specific anecdotal stories or what I would consider to be some questionable correlations that don’t provide any clear evidence that would directly relate to innersprings or metal frames. I would personally be more cautious with “active” electromagnetic fields (such as living close to high tension wires, holding a cell phone too close to your head, or sleeping near active electrical fields or wiring as examples) … but I personally wouldn’t have any issues with sleeping on an innerspring in terms of health or safety (although I recognize that there are certainly others that have a different opinion).

A forum search on electromagnetic (you can just click the link) will bring up more comments and feedback about EMF’s as well to add to your research.

Phoenix

[GJL3]

[quote=“GJL3” post=71482]I’ve now had the new #BME for 30 days and want to update my initial impression.

Just a little background, I ordered the medium comfort level, I’m 5’9" 150 lbs and a side sleeper. For the past 10+ years I’ve been sleeping on a serta nightscape which had a pillow top and I would say the mattress was soft. Switching to the medium comfort of the BME has been a big change and I would personally rate the mattress as a medium firm mattress. I’ve been walking on it once a day to help the mattress lose any of it’s initial false firmness and I think it has paid off, it has definitely softened up some.

One thing of note is I’ve never really been able to sleep on my back, but I’ve done so a few times already on the new #BME. This is kind of nice, because I prefer the feel of the mattress when lying on my back. I’ve also experimented with laying on my stomach, and although I’ve never really tried to sleep in that position it felt comfortable. So in my opinion this mattress is likely good for all sleeping positions for people within an average BMI, which must be why it’s the most popular model.

I initially said that the mattress felt firm and unresponsive and my feelings have changed some since then. Like I wrote above I think it is a medium/firm feel and I wouldn’t say it is unresponsive, but I wouldn’t say it is lively either. It has some of the latex buoyant feel which I like a lot, but it also has a feel I can’t quite describe other than saying it’s got the feeling of polyfoam too. The feeling is very unique and has grown on me, I would say I like the way it feels and responds. I think that if I would have purchased the softer version I like it even more because I would probably sink in a little more and it would probably feel more buoyant/responsive and obviously less firm (I believe that firmness and responsiveness/buyoancy are directly related).

One thing that has greatly improved how the mattress feels to me is that I got new sheets that are very soft and responsive and they feel as good if not better than sleeping directly on the quilted cover.

As far as how cool it sleeps, I’m not sure. I’ve always slept pretty hot, and honestly I still sleep pretty warm. I don’t really think there is a mattress out there that will help me sleep cool, it can be cold in my room and I’ll often still wake up sweaty.

Overall I’m not sure if I’ll be keeping the mattress just because I think it might be a little firm for my personal preference. I feel some pressure on my hips and shoulders when sleeping, but I don’t toss and turn that much more than I always have. I intend keep it another 30 days to see if it continues to grow on me.[/quote]

Just another update…

I started the return process because after 60 or so days of sleeping on my medium firm BME because I found my hips and shoulders to be to bothersome. So Mario reached out to me and offered to customize a mattress using pocketed coils with quantum edge technology and the comfort layers would be made very similarly to that of the titanflex BME.

I was excited and accepted his offer, after completing a questionnaire they made me a new mattress which I received last Thursday. I don’t know the specs and haven’t inquired since receiving it because I wanted to remain as unbiased as possible and just judge the mattress on how I sleep on it. Early results are…

It is extremely soft, I’ve never slept on anything so soft. When I lay on it I definitely sink in quite a bit, kind of reminds me of laying on a waterbed, hard to explain I think, it’s almost a deflating feeling. Very unlike anything I’ve felt.

It’s extremely pressure relieving, unlike any bed I’ve ever had. I’m yet to notice myself feeling very uncomfortable in my shoulders or hips (side sleeper).

I’m shocked to say this, but I haven’t noticed any back pain at all, which is strange because I would think as much as sink into this mattress and how soft it is that my back would be out of alignment. But so far so good.

It’s a little warmer than I was hoping for, I think this is because I’m basically sleeping in the mattress, but I’d rather sleep a little warm then be tossing and turning because my shoulders and hips hurt.

It’s kind of hard to sleep near the edge, I think this is because of how soft it is, you just sort of roll off the edge if you sleep to close to it. Not a huge deal but a little surprising because of the quantum edge technology. For me the all foam mattress edges were much more supportive, again likely because of it being much more firm than this mattress.

Overall so far I am very surprisingly pleased with my sleep quality. I thought for sure my back would hurt with how soft and how much I sink in, but not so far. A few little gripes, but the pros easily outweigh the cons thus far.

I can’t speak highly enough of Brooklyn Bedding customer service for offering to make me a completely customized mattress, and extending my trial 120 more days! I’ll try to update again in another 30-60 days.