Brooklyn Bedding question

Hello,

I currently own (and am very happy with) a 4.5 year old Brooklyn Bedding mattress. The mattress I have is the “Best Mattress Ever” model in medium firmness which I believe is 100% latex and no longer appears to be available on the site. I am not looking to upgrade from my current queen size mattress to a king size mattress. Given that I am happy with my current mattress, would you recommend that I try one of the currently available Brooklyn Bedding options (it appears they have moved to a hybrid type system with an inner spring support layer and foam on top) which are also more expensive or is there an alternative mattress manufacturer with a product more similar to my current mattress in feel and support and coolness? Is there any concern with the inner spring design of the hybrid mattress with sagging over time? I have been very pleased with my existing mattress in that it has retained its overall shape and feel very well over the past almost 5 years.

I’ll add to the above that I am 5’10, 170lbs, my wife is 5’4, 120lbs. I have a bad back (dealt with lower back pain, herniated discs, etc on and off for the past decade or so) so something supportive and helpful for back pain is key. I tend to sleep on my back and side, my wife tends to sleep on her side and stomach. Also, a mattress that sleeps cool is important as well as I tend to get warm as the night goes on (something our current mattress has been pretty good at helping with).

Also, can you recommend a mattress platform? Currently I have a platform bed but with the upgrade in mattress size I will either need to buy a new bed or simply buy a platform support (or a box spring?) … if I am looking to keep the cost down on the actual bed side of it (and splurge more, if need be, on the mattress), what type of mattress platform would be ideal?

Thank you in advance for the help!

Ok, a follow up after spending a few hours reading the various articles on this site. If I were to stay with Brooklyn Bedding for my next mattress I think the choice would be between the Bloom Hybrid and the Ecosleep Hybrid, which is a bit less expensive. Both of these mattresses come in medium firmness though the eco sleep has a “firmer” side. The construction is similar. The bloom has a 1.5" quilted wool and cotton top, 3" of 28 ILD Talalay latex, 8" inches of ascension x pocket coils, and 1" foam base (assuming poly foam?) whereas the ecosleep has (unknown depth) wool and cotton top, 1.5" 20 ILD Talalay latex, 1.5" of 24 ILD Talalay latex, 6" of ascension pocket coils (assuming lower coil count, no idea what the difference is between ascension and ascension x), 1.5" 32 ILD Talalay latex.

Given that the comfort later of the ecosleep is the same depth over the two layers but lower ILD will that one feel softer than the Bloom?

Also, I am having a hard time determining whether I should go with a hybrid mattress or a fully latex mattress with latex for the support layer as well. Any input or advice would be appreciated on that.

Is Brooklyn Bedding still considered to be a high quality and trustworthy manufacturer?

Just to keep everyone up to date :smiley: I think I am leaning now towards an all latex mattress rather than a hybrid mattress. I actually went to the Nest bedding showroom this afternoon and tried out their Natural All Latex bed. The medium firmness seemed ok, better than the firm firmness. I have sent them an email to ask about the exact specifications of the Latex used, but I did think the medium was maybe still a little bit too firm, and the mattress itself seemed to be on the thinner side, i.e. it felt like it bottomed out a bit when I sat on the edge.

After a few more hours on these forums I’ve come across the Luma Sleep Latex Slumber System and the Saatva Zenhaven Latex. The latter seems to be 100% Talalay latex whereas the former is 2 layers of dunlop with either a dunlop or Talalay topper. I don’t have the exact specs of the Saatva mattress. Both seem like good options. Does anyone on here have specific preferences one way or the other? With the Luma Sleep is it awkward to have 2 pieces to the mattress? Is it hard to fit sheets over that?

Hi noahsi.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum. :slight_smile:

It is always a downer when a mattress you know works well for you goes out of production. I was able to pull up the specifications for The Best Mattress Ever (you’re correct, they’re trying to rebrand their hybrid as their original “Best Mattress Ever” - I couldn’t tell you why though). You are not alone. Many people liked the mattress and it’s too bad that they reworked and changed materials and specs.

The version you have (medium firmness) is 10" with 2" Talalay (28 ILD) followed by 2" Dunlop (32 ILD) and then 6" of a 2 lb convoluted polyfoam core (around 32 ILD). This is good startup info as to what works for you. Link to BBs archived discontinued Best Mattress Ever.

It looks like you’d rather stay with “what you know” in terms of feel with an all-foam configuration. While I see no need for you to try and learn to love a hybrid mattress, Depending on your budget I would not disregard them altogether as there are no real downsides to using a pocket coil support Also Pocket could have many advantages in terms of longevity, temperature regulation, motion isolation, conform well to different body types and sleeping positions. etc. There is more about an innerspring/latex hybrid vs an all latex mattress in post #2 here.

Because every layer and component in a mattress can affect the feel and performance of every other layer and the mattress “as a whole” I’d say that you’d have a different experience with any of Brooklyn Bedding’s other lineups. If you’d like to venture into some trial and error experiments I’d make sure to find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to disqualify any mattress that has lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress.

This said because you know the ILDs/foam density of the configuration you have; it wouldn’t be especially difficult to recreate this mattress yourself with DIY components in a King size - although I’d recommend moving to an all-latex system if budget permits as it’s going to be more durable over time and respond better than polyfoam core.

A DIY is certainly an option and can get a bit complex but it is usually a rewarding option if approached in the spirit of adventure. You’d be able to tweak and adjust the mattress to your liking, and can do a side-by-side split if your partner would prefer a different feel or firmness. If that’s the route you choose to take, there are experts and resources on TMU to help, if you chose to go that route.
Here are some slicked experts that can offer personalized guidance on how to do this whether you buy from them or not.

Deborah at DIY Natural bedding
Ken at Arizona premium mattress company is very skilled at helping consumers with their DIY
Shawn and Rodger at Latex Mattress company
And of course, SleepEZ can help with building a DIY as well.
You can also “build a mattress” on Flexus’ website, with the option to buy the base recommended for the mattress.

Regardless of which mattress you choose, it’s important that you have a detailed conversation with the knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer who, and provide them with good information about your body types, sleeping styles, general preferences and history, some general information about mattresses you have tested and done well with, and any other specific information or circumstances that could affect your choice of a mattress.

In your case, being able to give specific ILDs would be a great help to them in assisting in choosing or configuring your next mattress.

I am assuming you probably meant “now” instead of “not” ….otherwise the dots don’t quite connect given your normal range BMIs, II’s be surprised if you’d be already in the market for a new mattress after not even 5 years of life from the original version of the Best Mattress Ever. Correct?

This also comes down to the mattress you buy. The manufacturer or expert helping you configure your mattress will have recommendations - and in some cases, certain bases may void a mattress warranty, so you’ll want to keep that in mind when you’re speaking with whomever it is you choose to buy your mattress from. If it were me because there are quite a few variables depending on the type of mattress you end up with, I would separate the purchase of the foundation from that of the mattress and first ensure that your new mattress works as expected after you’ve had the chance to sleep on it for a while even if it means placing the mattress on the floor for a certain period before moving ahead to buying a platform/foundation. I am saying this because of the lower back pain you mentioned which may have been caused by improper comfort/support or a sagging sleeping surface or both.

I hope this helps. I look forward to any future updates or questions you may have.

Phoenix

Note added later: As I am intermittently working on posts today I didn’t notice that you deepened your research. Good to see that you are on the same wavelength and discovered on your own some of the directions I’ve indicated in this post. Good Job!

You are quite right! Both Luma Sleep and Nest Bedding are very good options depending on the type of mattress you decide will best serve you. Both have very good workmanship and design and as you probably noticed they are trusted members of this site which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe they compete well with the best in the industry.

Many mattresses are designed this way to offer more options for fine-tuning comfort support. There is no downside to having a 2 pieces mattress. It would be the same as having a topper on a base mattress and fitting a 2 piece bed with sheets’ is not more “awkward” than fitting a one-piece mattress.

Hello Phoenix and thank you for the detailed response. Yes that was a typo in my until a post… I meant “now” rather than “not”.

Thank you also for finding the specs of my current mattress.

I do not think going the custom route is what I want to do at the moment - I am already testing my partners patience with the deliberations on the mattress and platform!

That said, the luma all latex mattress is 6 inch 38 ild Dunlop support layer with a 2 inch ild 30 Dunlop transition layer topped by the customers choice of 3 inches of either 19, 28, or 36 ild Talalay or 3 inches of 24, 30, 38 Dunlop latex. Is it fair to say the version with the 28 ild Talalay topper would be pretty similar to what I have now? (Maybe a little softer)? The middle layer is a little softer in the Luma and I don’t know how the latex base support layer in the Luma compares to the foam in my current Brooklyn bedding mattress.

I did test out the nest all latex in medium and firm. The firm was much too firm and the medium felt a little firm. The medium Nest is 6 inch 36 ild Dunlop topped by 3 inch of 27 ild Dunlop with 1.5 inch of 1.5 lb quilting foam as the upper most layer. In the store the salesperson told me the medium was 30ild Dunlop on the upper layer but the 27 number is what I received over email from their customer support team. Do you think the Luma would be a bit more plush than the nest?

I didn’t realize I could simply place the mattress on the floor. The Luma website says the warranty can be voided if the support platform is inappropriate but they do not define what that means. Their slatted wood foundations have 14 2.5 inch slats placed 2.75 inches apart, but I do not particularly like the style of it. I don’t think my current platform bed is the issue with my back - I have some back injuries spanning 10 years ago and have intermittent residual soreness. I really just care about having something supportive.

Would something like this foundation be appropriate: https://www.tuftandneedle.com/basics/box-foundation/ ? This one the slats are 3.5 inches apart. I’m not sure if the extra space will make much of a difference or not.

Hi noahsi.

Understood! Thankfully, many great options exist that are ready to take home and sleep on.

This wouldn’t be “fair to say” regarding the mattresses you are looking at … or any other mattress where all the materials and components are not exactly the same. To recap you can see that the materials and thicknesses are different.
(10") height (your previous discontinued mattress)
2" Talalay (28 ILD)
2" Dunlop (32 ILD)
6" of a 2 lb convoluted polyfoam core (around 32 ILD)

(11") Luma all latex is
3" Talalay in either 19, 28, or 36 ILD or 3" Dunlop in 24, 30, or 38 ILD
2" Dunlop (30 ILD)
6" Dunlop (38 ILD]

And the Nest (medium) is
1.5" 1.5 lb foam
3" Dunlop (27 ILD)
6" Dunlop (36 ILD)

All of the layers of foam work together in a completed mattress, and there would be no way for me to tell how each layer of foam is impacting the comfort that you feel on each of these units, as only you can feel that. Also, thickness and firmness are interdependent when it comes to the sleeper’s overall support/comfort. With a 12" mattress … the firmness would need to go up (than what you had for a 10" thick mattress) on average because thicker mattresses will “act” softer for most people. If you make changes to one of the specs (such as the layer thickness of the top layer) … then you may also need to make other changes to the other layers to compensate.

Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress “as a whole” so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be fairly unlikely) then there really isn’t a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place). This being said you are on the right track by seeking guidance from an experienced manufacturer or retailer, who would be the ones to best approximate a mattress feel based on all the specs and your personal needs and preferences you may provide. post #2 here.

Because there are so many objective and subjective elements involved in matching one mattress to another and because different materials or components can have the same quality in terms of density and durability and even the same design in terms of layer thickness but still have different performance properties or “subjective feel” … matching one mattress to another from the perspective of a mattress designer and from the perspective of a consumer can be as much an art as a science. Even if say 8 out of 10 people agree that one mattress is a close approximation to another in one or more ways in terms of feel and performance … there will always be those who don’t agree because their perceptions, preferences, or sensitivities are different.

My recommendation would be to reach out and ask them. This is the best way to be sure you’re not voiding your warranty. Generally, in the case of latex, the main criteria for most manufacturers concerns the distance between slats that should be no more than 3" apart (or preferably less). Placing it on the floor would qualify as a supportive surface to make sure that it doesn’t sink through any gap.

Again, an all-latex mattress should not be placed on a slatted base with gaps larger than 3" apart (preferably less) The integrity of the latex is compromised and you may lose some of the supportive qualities you would otherwise benefit from on a proper base. I’d also make sure that the slatted bed has a center beam with good support to the floor (in sizes above a twin) so it doesn’t sag.

I hope this clarifies your doubts.

Phoenix

Hi, Did you respond to the question about Brooklyn reliability? I’m also trying to decide among Brooklyn, Winkbed and Nest Alex. Hybrid. I’ve tried Saatva, Casper and Dreamcloud and none of them were soft enough. We are mainly side sleepers; 5’5 130 lb and 5’10 165 lb. Looking for King size bed under $3K

Hi gingerspice.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum. :slight_smile:

We don’t make comments on the reliability of specific brands, rather the durability of the materials relative to your sleeping positions and BMI.

It sounds like you are considering a number of mattresses and am not seeing the common thread among them in terms of the criteria you used for your selection.
Firstly, try to understand a bit more your needs and preferences. I am saying this as I am noticing that you selected a very wide range of mattress types and materials. Once you determine what type of mattress and materials you prefer and need you can use new criteria to eliminate and narrow your mattress search based on these criteria. Then you can apply the second and very important criteria of “durability” … eliminate all mattresses that do not meet the durability guidelines for my BMI … then a third “temperature regulation” e.g. eliminate all mattresses that have the potential to sleep hot… and so on.

All above is covered in more detail in the tutorial post here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choices … and know how and why to avoid the worst ones which would include the major brands such as Serta or any mattress where you aren’t able to find out the quality of the materials inside it. When assessing any product, also be sure that you find out the information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the mattress durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

I would also recommend this article that breaks down comfort layer recommendations by sleeping position.

Once you’ve had a chance to do a little more perusing to the links listed above so that you can establish what your main criteria for selection is, I would also suggest looking into the offerings of our Trusted Members who we think very highly of and believe they compete with among the best in the industry. They are transparent with their components and have your concerns as a consumer at heart and care more about your health and comfort than their bottom line.

I always advise before making any mattress purchase that you have a detailed conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced online retailer or manufacturer and provide them with good information about your body type, sleeping style, general preferences and history, some general information about mattresses you have tested and done well with, and any other specific information or circumstances that could affect your choice of a mattress.

Phoenix

Understood - so it seems based on this information the Luma may be a fair bit softer than what I currently have. To be clear I do not need (or even recognize the possibility as likely) to match my current mattress exactly, it is more to provide an indication of something that currently works ok for us.

The above said, after discussing with the folks at Luma I did decide to purchase their Latex Sleep System with the medium (28 ILD) Talalay top layer. I also decided to buy the foundation that they sell which has slats that are 2.75 inches apart, along with a metal bed frame with headboard brackets from Tuft and Needle which looked a bit nicer than the one’s available on Amazon for not much less money. Luma offers a 100 night trial period as well as the option to swap the top layer for something different, so if it doesn’t work there is little risk. I wouldn’t have found them without this website so thank you again for the great resource!

Cheers!

Noah

Hi Noah.

Great choice! Congratulations on your Luma purchase!:cheer:

As you know Luma Sleep is a member of this site which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe they compete well with the best in the industry.

I look forward to any updates you might have once you have been able to sleep on the mattress and foundation for the recommended break-in time.

Phoenix

Thank you! I set the mattress up yesterday and we slept on it for the first time last night. I slept pretty poorly to be honest but that might just mean it will take a little while for my body to adjust to the mattress. I tbh j it’s possible the medium firmness that we bought (ie the 3 inch 28 ILD Talalay topper) is too soft for me - it definitely had more of a slowly “sink in” feeling than I was expecting. I guess I’ll give it a week and then decide about trying to switch the topper to a firmer option.

On that topic - is it weird to have a denser latex as the topper option on top of the middle layer which is 30ild? The firmer topper options are either 36 ild talaylay or 38 ild Dunlop both 3 inches.

Thanks again!

Hi again -

I’m still going back and forth on our Luma mattress. I cannot pinpoint the issue but I have not been sleeping that great on it. I am thinking about trying one of the Brooklyn Bedding options instead, either the Bloom (which is Talalay Latex over pocket coils) or the Aurora which is a variety of foam layers over coils. I do tend to sleep hot and it seems like the Aurora is designed to be cooler feeling in general so maybe that is a good option.

I would be very curious to get your opinion on the durability and material quality in these mattresses, especially the Aurora, as it is hard to tell how much of it is just marketing speak versus substance.

Thank you!

Hey noahsi,

Good to see you back on TMU and thanks for your updates :slight_smile: !

Thanks for making a mattress purchase from expert trusted member Luma Sleep :slight_smile: ! I regard them highly in terms of product knowledge, design expertise, and customer satisfaction post-sale. From the dates of your posts, it looks like you’ve given your Luma mattress the standard 30 day sleep adjustment period, and sorry to learn that you aren’t finding it to your liking.

The Brooklyn Bedding Bloom Hybrid mattress features a 3" Talalay latex comfort layer (28 ILD/ Medium) over a 6" Ascension X pocket coil support array and comes in one firmness: medium. There is also 1" HD base foam used to provide stability to the pocket coil support core but from their site, I don’t see its weight given but fairly certain that it’s in the recommended 1.5-1.8 lbs per cu. ft. range, you could verify that with them. Just a bit curious with this choice: from your previous posts, I see that the Luma Latex Slumber System that you purchased also has a 3" Talalay latex comfort layer in 28 ILD/ medium firmness, and you found that that firmness to be “too soft”. Do you feel that problem with your Luma mattress is more of a support issue rather than a comfort layer related one? You may want to ask for more details regarding the pocket coil array to better understand what support firmness to expect (such as gauge, thickness, diameter, # of turns). Your original BB Best Mattress Ever model was all latex, so you can expect a bit of a different support feel with a pocket coil support core.

BB’s Aurora Hybrid model features 3.5" of proprietary “hyperresponsive” foams , a 1" memory foam transition layer over an 8" Ascension X pocket coils and an 1" HD foam base. It is available in three firmnesses: soft, medium, or firm. Their site’s product description emphasizes use of PCM/ Phase Change Materials within the components, a popular trend in the textile and foam categories. Whether or not PCMs offer continuous temperature regulating qualities is difficult to quantify on an individual basis, as each person reacts differently to those within different sleep environments. There is a significant amount of research and development in the category, as well as marketing investment, and the technology does have its fans. The short answer to your question is that in terms of durability for either mattress, you will need to contact Brooklyn Bedding for further discussion on the above mentioned points of HD Base foam density and pocket coil support details. Both mattress models are popular with consumers and have been the topic of much discussion on TMU, you can use the forum’s site search function to review those comments. Hope this helps with your research and good luck moving forward in your journey :wink: .

Thanks,
Sensei

Thank you for the detailed response and information regarding these alternative mattresses. I am also looking at the Nest Alexander signature hybrid model which seems similar to the BB Ascension, maybe, though I don’t have these specs in front of me. With regard to the fact that the BB also has a 28 ild Talalay top layer I’m now under the impression that it is not so simple to compare as even the feel of the top layer is dependent on the overall thickness and density / support of the lower layers. So it is hard for me to judge. It turns out there is a showroom in NYC with these mattresses so I intend to go check them if / when I am ready to explore them more seriously. I guess I was just more curious about the durability of these hybrid mattresses in general as I know that Latex seems to be the ultimate mattress material.

All of that said, I am making some tweaks to my setup in the meantime as I still have ample time in the trial period for the Luma mattress. I am switching to a new (I believe lighter) duvet insert. I am also likely going to switch out the top comfort layer of the Luma to the firm option which is a 36ild Talalay from the current 28ild. On that, I’ve noticed that most all latex mattresses tend to go from higher ild to lower ild layers as you make your way up from the bottom to the top of the mattress. If I switch to the 36ild top layer then that will actually lay on top of a 2 inch 30ild Dunlop layer and then a 6 inch 38 ild Dunlop support layer. So I guess it is a bit unconventional (maybe not! I am not the expert :-)) to have them arranged like this. Either way I assume it must be fine since this is a standard option that Luma offers.

In any case, I think first step is to try the firmer top layer for the Luma and give that a decent shot and then if that doesn’t work for me explore my other options. This is so tough!

Hey noahsi,

Thanks for your reply and updates :slight_smile: .

To your point, there really is an individual feel between several mattresses of similar constructions, as each design is intended to benefit the user in some unique/ differentiating way. Even with detailed analysis of the mattress’s component specs, each person will perceive its comfort feel and support somewhat differently. While each manufacturer sets an ILD range based on a desired feel and performance outcome, the resulting latex may not have exactly the same firmness feel and why the range is a generally accepted number for comparison. It’s good to hear that you have COVID safe showrooms in your area as mattress testing is the one best way to experience these qualities.

I checked via Luma’s chat on the different ILD firmness “feel”, and on a scale of 1-10, their medium 28 ILD is rated 5.5/ 10 and firm 36 ILD is rated 8/10, so you’re heading in the right direction for firming up the mattress’s comfort. According to Luma, the 2" Natural Latex layer serves as a transition between the 3" latex pillow top and the 38 ILD firm zoned dunlop latex core, preventing the user from the feel of “bottoming out” into the support core area. In other words, the 2" of latex is additional material separating the upper comfort layer from the lower support core, and for this purpose, the 30 ILD medium firmness latex is perfectly acceptable. The separate pillow top design gives the flexibility to change the comfort feel while maintaining the separate support core’s firmness.

Shopping for the perfect mattress is tough, even in the best of times! Hang in there noahsi and keep up the good research work. The resulting payoff of sound sleep will be a worthwhile reward. Hope things improve with your Luma comfort exchange and let us know how things work out :wink: .

Thanks,
Sensei

Hello,

Thanks again for the insightful responses. I wound up exchanging the topper of the Luma for a “medium-firm” option which was a 3inch 32 ild Talalay and it was much too firm so after 2 nights of not sleeping at all we switched back onto the 28 ild and I returned the 32. There was some confusion as they thought they mistakenly sent me a 36 ild topper however the label on the new one definitely said 32 ild, so I don’t think there was a mixup. For anyone considering the Luma I would caution that one of the selling points is the top layer is separate seemingly making it easier to do an exchange. That is true, however the exchange consists of just the latex foam and not the encasement, so you still have to open it up and swap it out which is a bit of a pain. I guess it still makes sense to have 2 layers so that the mattress isn’t extremely heavy (the bottom section is already quite heavy), but it’s not as simple as it would seem.

In any case, I think we are probably going to move on from this mattress as it just doesn’t seem to be a good fit for us, unfortunately, as I was very excited when I ordered it.

With respect to the BB Bloom Hybrid the coil gauge is 13.5 for the perimeter and 14.75 for the center. I am not exactly certain how firm or supportive that actually is. That said, maybe this is the best option in terms of getting close to the feeling of the previous BB mattress that I had?

I think I am going to try to choose one from either: Nest Alexander Signature Hybrid, Nest Natural Latex Hybrid, BB Aurora, BB Sedona, BB Bloom. Is it safe to say that all of these are of a high quality from a durability perspective or do any have any obvious red flags to be aware of?

I did go to a showroom in NYC last week and was able to lay on the BB Sedona, which felt nice but maybe a little soft, but they were kind of pushy towards either the Helix lux twilight (which upon some further research seems to have a mixed bag with respect to durability) and something called MLILLY power cell mattress, which upon further research doesn’t seem to be a high quality mattress either, so I guess take the “opinion” of the salesperson with a grain of salt.

Appreciate the advice and any further input anyone may have.

Hey noahsi,

Good to see you back on the forum and thanks for your updates :slight_smile: !

[quote]Thanks again for the insightful responses. I wound up exchanging the topper of the Luma for a “medium-firm” option which was a 3inch 32 ild Talalay and it was much too firm so after 2 nights of not sleeping at all we switched back onto the 28 ild and I returned the 32. There was some confusion as they thought they mistakenly sent me a 36 ild topper however the label on the new one definitely said 32 ild, so I don’t think there was a mixup.
[/quote]

Okay, so you went with the comfort exchange! That’s too bad that you found the 32 ILD to be that much firmer than the 28 ILD, as there shouldn’t be that much difference between the two. But again, as we are fond of saying here at TMU: only you can “feel” what you feel on a mattress :slight_smile: .

I’m sorry to hear that you had some difficulty swapping the latex cores with the zippered encasement, noahsi. I checked with Luma Sleep and verified that it is their practice to only exchange the latex itself, as the zippered cover is the same thickness and still useable; this is a measure to avoid product waste and expedite the exchange process. It also promotes sustainability by avoiding unnecessary landfill contributions.

After a re-read of all of your research posts and progress, I reached out to expert trusted member Luma Sleep’s owner regarding your purchase and exchange experience, and he has offered another exchange option and extension of your in-home trial, Luma is well-know for helping customers finding a solution. As you still have your mattress, it may be worthwhile to reach out to Stefano and find what other topper may be better suited for you.

The BB Bloom Hybrid uses 6" proprietary Ascension X coils in the support core. The 13.5 gauge perimeter coil is firmer for more edge support, and the 14.75 gauge coils would provide a uniform medium support feel across the mattress’s base. The mattress also features a 3" 28 ILD Talalay comfort layer. It comes in one firmness: medium. It’s difficult to say if this hybrid would provide a similar feel to your beloved BB Best Mattress Ever model, as an all-foam mattress’s support feel is much different than that of pocket coils. Each fabric encased coil moves independently with motion and is responsive to your body’s movement. When you combine 3" of Talalay over the coils, you may find that to be quite a nice combination if you change positions often during the night.

Any of these mattresses should be a safe bet, noahsi. You may try a TMU site search using any of these models as they each have been discussed regularly.

Good job on the showroom visit! The BB Sedona has several comfort layers of memory foam over its pocket coil array, rather than latex that you have experience with. You’ve mentioned previously that sleeping cool is a preference; memory foam is well-known for its tendency to create a warmer feel as you sleep and that may be a consideration in your choices. It also gives a “sleeping in” a mattress feel as opposed to latex’s “sleeping on” a mattress’s feel.

When a salesperson is moving you towards particular brands rather than what you have interest in, it’s likely that the brand is offering some incentives to promote their products. I’m not familiar with Mlilly’s line; however, their siteFAQs state that “All Sales are Final”, so that would be a deal breaker for many shoppers. Thanks again for your detailed updates, noahsi, and let us know more as you make your next move.

Thanks :wink: ,
Sensei

Ok, time to update you all on our continuing mattress saga. Wow, I see my last post was from back in February … been a while! We wound up exchanging the Luma for a Nest Hybrid Latex. Still not comfortable but first to discuss the Luma.

So when I notified Luma that I wanted to return the mattress they then told me that they thought the initial version they sent me was erroneously the 24 ILD version and not the 28 ILD (after telling me the 2nd one was probably a 36 ILD and not a 32 …). In any case they sent me another 28 ILD to try which felt the same to me as the 24, but by then I had already ordered the new mattress from Nest anyway so I almost definitely wasn’t going to keep it (Luma knew about this and sent me the 3rd topper regardless).

To make a long story short, whether due to confusion, a mistake, or just simply not being the right mattress for us it simply didn’t work out for us with Luma. I will say that the company was extremely easy and pleasant to deal with (more so than Nest, for certain) so don’t let my experience deter you from giving them a shot.

On to the Nest. We bought the Nest Natural Hybrid Latex mattress in the medium firmness. This mattress is composed of 6 inches of pocket coils followed by 1inch of transitional foam, 3 inches of 27 ILD Dunlop latex, and 1.5% quilted cover. One thing we liked more about the Nest compared to the Luma was the quilted cover felt nice and more similar to our previous Brooklyn Bedding mattress whereas the Luma is really just a thin stretchy cover over the top latex layer.

Anyway, this initial version of the mattress was way too soft for us. This was an unforced error on my part since in the store we actually did prefer the firmer feel (which is 36 ILD dunlop latex layer, the rest of the bed is the same) however I was worried about starting out with a mattress that was too firm since my experience with the Luma taught me that I can at least sleep on a too soft mattress (albeit with lower back pain) whereas it is extremely difficult for me to even fall asleep on a mattress that is too firm. So, we went with the medium.

It’s a bit annoying but we were required to keep the medium for 30 days before they would send us the firm to swap in (a nice feature of this mattress is the zippered top enabling access to modify the layers a bit) – I was told that to exchange it earlier would have entailed a restocking fee for the layer I was returning, only to find out once we waited the required 30 days to get the firmer option that actually they didn’t want the medium layer back and I could do whatever I wanted with it!

Anyway, we got the firm version - at first it felt good. Actually even now I will say that I have no lower back pain after sleeping on this version of the mattress. That said, I think the comfort layer must not be soft enough because I have shoulder and upper back pain from this mattress. Also, I just don’t find it very comfortable and have a hard time falling / staying asleep. That said, I am now past the trial period (I thought the 100 nights would get extended due to swapping out the layer, but no … should have clarified this point at the time), and I am not able to return the mattress.

So, as far as I see it I have a few options:

  1. give up on the Nest and start the quest from scratch along with all the hassle and uncertainty that entails (swapping out layers, etc, is pretty difficult especially since I don’t have a spare room to leave unused pieces in … have a smallish NYC apartment here). Also complicating things is that my wife actually loves the mattress as it currently is and is sleeping great (which seemingly flies in the face of conventional mattress wisdom since she is 5’4 120lbs and a side / stomach sleeper so I would’ve thought this mattress would be far far too firm for her).

  2. buy a different 3 inch insert for the mattress … maybe 30 ILD Talayla would work well for me?

  3. buy an additional mattress topper for the mattress, maybe 2 inch of softish talayla latex?

So, I am back to ask for advice between option 2 and 3 what do you think is the better option and why? And how should I go about searching for the right ILD of insert or topper ?

Thank you!

One point I’d stress to the above is truly my lower back has been totally pain free lately - and I want to keep it that way! Correct me if I am wrong but that implies that the support layer of this mattress (the coils?) are good for me … and I need to tweak the comfort layer? Or would the 36 ILD dunlop layer also be considered part of the support layer? I guess if the former that would imply swapping it out for a somewhat softer latex and if the latter then adding an additional latex on top would make sense?

Hi noahsi.

We had to redistribute some TMU tasks as we are one moderator short for a little while until Sensei is back from a personal leave so I will chime in for the time being.

Thank you for your update. You’ve had quite a long mattress shopping journey thus far with some trials and errors. It seems that the “saga” still continues.

[QUOTE] Anyway, we got the firm version - at first it felt good. Actually even now I will say that I have no lower back pain after sleeping on this version of the mattress. That said, I think the comfort layer must not be soft enough because I have shoulder and upper back pain from this mattress.
That said, I think the comfort layer must not be soft enough because I have shoulder and upper back pain from this mattress. Also, I just don’t find it very comfortable and have a hard time falling / staying asleep…[/QUOTE]
The best news is that the lower back pain after sleeping on this version of the mattress vanished as the neutral spinal alignment is the primary concern when it comes to mattress suitability. Because of your "shoulder and upper back pain, " you may wish to reevaluate your pillow as if this is too high or too low it will affect the curvature of your lower back to a certain extent which could create some muscles tension. Generally speaking and because if you have two sleeping positions, I would tend to lean towards a design that prioritized your primary sleeping position (not sure if it is side or back for you) and I would keep in mind that side sleepers generally need a bit more pressure point relief on the surface to accommodate the wider dimensional variances between the shoulders and the hips and the waist. I would also tend to prioritize alignment/support over pressure relief.

There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to the firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.

These posts are the “tools” that can help with the analysis, detective work, or trial and error that may be necessary to help you learn your body’s language and “translate” what your body is trying to tell you so you can identify the types of changes that have the best chance of reducing or eliminating any “symptoms” you are experiencing

[QUOTE] So, I am back to ask for advice between option 2 and 3 what do you think is the better option and why? And how should I go about searching for the right ILD of insert or topper
2) buy a different 3-inch insert for the mattress … maybe 30 ILD Talayla would work well for me?[/QUOTE]
Because this configuration seems to fit your wife so well, I would consider splitting the 3" layer and keeping the firm 3^ ILD Continuous Pour Dunlop for her, and finding the right ILD for your side. Stomach sleepers, in general, need a firm and thin comfort layer. It is good that the Nest mattress is a little thicker because firmness and thickness are interdependent and work together. A slightly thicker mattress can accommodate both of your needs. As your wife’s experience proves, the firmness for her side had to go up (than what she would need for a less tick mattress) Thicker mattresses will “act” softer for most people. If you make changes to one of the specs (such as the layer thickness of the top layer) … then you may also need to make other changes to the other layers to compensate. This is also to say that you can’t really make apples-to-apples comparisons between your two last mattresses in terms of comfort.

A firmer 36 ILD 3" layer is more appropriate for your wife’s side but with a split layer, you can now fine-tune your side to get a bit more comfort without detracting to much from the support. There is always a threshold of how much comfort you can add without detracting from the support you need to keep your spine in neutral alignment so let’s keep the fingers crossed that a 3" 28 ILD Talalay from Luma does the job

Before you go about deciding or even cutting the 3" layer I’d experiment with what you already have in your possession. You mentioned that you still have the 3rd topper from Luma of28 ILD. I would swap for a few nights the 36" ILD Dunlop from Nest and replace it with the 28 ILD Talalay from Luma and keep some notes to see how it goes for you. Your wife will probably feel that it is too soft but

This solution most likely would create some issues for your wife and probably for you too so I will hold off for a while and see how your experiments go. Once you have more data please let us know to analyze your results as best as we can from the distance to help you fine-tune your side of the bed configuration for a better fit. I’d say you are on a good track here.

Let us know what you decide and keep us updated
Phoenix