Can this bed be saved?

Hello and thank you for this wonderful website!
Our Naturpedic EOS bed is nearly one year old and I have been dissatisfied with it from the start. Here is the configuration: firm coils, a 3" medium Dunlop comfort layer, and we have added a medium 2" Talalay topper from Luma. I have tried all of the comfort layer options- soft, medium and firm. I have also tried the micro coils. In every case, the problem remains the same: instead of my hips sinking into the mattress, the mattress sags under my hips. The result is that my lumbar region is not supported. I have to tilt my pelvis to make contact between my lower back and the mattress. The bottom layer coils were replaced a couple of months ago with no remarkable change.(Replacing the coils did fix what was diagnosed to be a “dent” in the mattress, but the sagging hip region is still an issue.) I’m wondering if the coils are simply inadequate and if they could be the problem- I can’t find any specifics on coil count or gauge. Naturepedic describes them as 8" individually wrapped pocketed coils with edge support. (I found on your site that the coils are supplied by Texas Pocket Springs.) Here’s my question: should I try replacing the coils with a firm polyfoam support layer? The Luma topper helped at first but we have now rotated and flipped it numerous times and the initial buoyancy is gone. People keep telling me that latex doesn’t sag. It does, however, seem to lose its tensile strength. Honestly, I am so exasperated by this bed, having deconstructed and reconstructed it dozens of times, that I’m inclined to give up on it but I’m not sure what I would replace it with. Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

Sorry, I meant to mention that we’ve added a plywood sheet on top of our slats so the sagging problem really can’t be the foundation.

Last addendum: I’m a 112 pound woman.

Hello Tacocoat and thanks for reaching out! If you’re hips are sinking too far into the coils, I’m almost certain they need to be replaced. Support has to come from the mattress, not from the topper. Also, latex will conform to whatever surface it is on, so if your mattress is soft or sagging the topper will take on the characteristics of your mattress. About half of the customers that purchase a firm topper to make the mattress firmer end up returning it, that’s the only reason I mention these things. If you want to try it though, an extra firm 3" Dunlop topper has the best chance of working for you. If you get a 3" extra firm topper and find that it doesn’t work for you, you could either return it within 30 days for a flat-rate $45 return fee, or you can use it to build an all-latex mattress by using it as the bottom layer of a do-it-yourself mattress. Please also note that having coils that are not supportive enough can cause the topper to break down sooner than normal, in the same way that having a latex mattress on an old box spring or faulty foundation can cause the mattress to break down sooner than normal as well. I wouldn’t be able say if latex over foam is the best choice for you personally, that would take some research, trials, trips to the mattress store, or whatever you think is appropriate. I definitely recommend doing a good amount of research through old Mattress Underground posts and articles because there are TONS of excellent information that can help you make your best decision on your next setup.

Thanks for your detailed reply! I think I will try replacing the coils with foam and take it from there. It sounds like everything depends on how supportive the coils are.

Hello, I am nearing the end of a trial with the EOS (pillowtop version), as well. I think that I understand the issue. For me latex just doesn’t conform to the small of the back; I am a small female, as well. I had an issue with the non-pillow top Avocado. It is very firm, especially in the middle zone, so instead of the mattress conforming to the small of my back, the mattress pushed my hips up and the small of my back was left without support. That said, the support works well if you prefer to sleep on the stomach.

I’m still trying to make the EOS Pillowtop work, so the jury is still out. Right now, I have from bottom to top: the firm base coils, medium latex, medium microcoil. In this configuration, I found the micro coils act more independently than latex, so they support the small of my back. That said, I feel like the base layer support falls a bit short. I absolutely can’t sleep on my stomach. I am about to try the following from bottom to top: firm base coil, firm latex, and medium microcoil.

Notably, after I used a softer configuration (firm BC, Med latex, Plush) for a week, I woke up with severe lower back pain. My assessment is that the 3" of plush latex is just too thick and it allows one to sink way too deeply into the bed. I understand the desire for a modular arrangement, but a three inch comfort layer is just too thick. It seems that I would do better with a 1 inch plush over a 2 inch medium, over a 3 inch firm over a firm or extra firm base coil (for the pillowtop EOS).

Lastly, if the base coils are the issue, consider that Naturepedic makes an extra firm base coil that is special order. Perhaps if you explained the issue to them, they might give you a break on a replacement. I would take a good look at the base coils to see if they’re compromised.

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… also, from bottom to top, from base coil, med. microcoil, med. microcoil did not perform well for me. It felt strangely firm, but overly soft at the same time. Personally, I don’t think the microcoils work well directly over the base coils.

To clarify, the Avocado and with latex in general, I feel like my butt is smashed and the small of my back is unsupported. This seems to cause my hips to tilt, so that the small of my back conforms to the mattress, rather than the other way around. I think this is an issue with latex altogether.

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I was interested to hear the feedback from the last two contributors about the EOS and latex in general. I know exactly what you mean about the “smashed butt” combined with tilted hips problem. Since my last post I’ve tried several things: I replaced the coils with a firm poly foam layer but did not experience any improvement. Finally, I bought a standard 2 sided firm mattress, coils and poly foam, to try in our guest room (before getting a new bed to replace the EOS) and have been mostly comfortable! Lastly, I just bought a high quality egg crate topper from a local foam shop and I love it! It’s a much higher density than the ones you can buy at Target for a college dorm bed. On top of the egg crate, I added a thin wool topper which really helps keep the mattress a bit cooler. Both the egg crate and the wool topper are beneath the mattress pad. I have come to the conclusion that latex really isn’t for me. I don’t know how long it will last but the 2" egg crate topper is cheap enough to replace as needed. I could replace the 2 sided mattress a few times for what we paid for the EOS!! Good luck to all of you!

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So, in answer to my original question: No, this bed cannot be saved!

What 2 sides mattress did you buy/ from where? Whats the name of the local shop where you got the high density convoluted foam? What wool pad are you using/ from where? Thanks :smiling_face:

It looks like you bought the EOS, rather than the EOS pillowtop. I think I struggled with the “Smash Butt” problem too, and we’re about the same size. I understand that you have bottom to top: firm coils and Medium latex. I have the EOS pillowtop, so one more layer. I’m in the layer swap period, and just got the firm latex layer, so changed to: Firm BS, Firm Latex, Medium Microcoil, and I think this works. The two base layers keep my hips up and the micro coils fill in the small of my back. I can also sleep on my stomach. Before, I had Firm BC, Med Latex, Med Microcoil and found that the micro coils did support the small of my back, and it was comfy, but I just felt like my hips were sinking a bit. That said, it feels nice for side sleeping. It does not provide enough support to sleep on my stomach.

I think micro coils do a nice job of independently supporting the curves. I’m told by a mattress maker that latex doesn’t cradle well and the only way you’ll get that feel from a foam is with something like a memory foam, but there’s a reason you went with Naturepedic.

I think your issue may be that you need a firm base and a comfort layer that supports the small of your back. Unless there’s a problem with the support, I think your firm base coils should work. So if you have a firm latex on top of that with a topper that supports the small of your back, perhaps that would work well. I know it’s hard to put money into experiments, but a new mattress is an experiment too.

I just don’t think the micro coils work well sitting directly on top of the base coils… they need a more uniform support and suspect that sitting directly on top of the coils might damage them… I tried it.

So, what would I do if I were you.

  1. I’d make sure that the platform is well supported. I’m hoping you have good center support.
  2. I’d open it up and check the base coils, and make sure that there’s no problem there. Make sure you have uniform support and no coils are hung up.
  3. Consider:
    a) a 3" firm latex on top of the coils with a comfort topper. Maybe you can find a microcoil topper or a synthetic that’s green-guard gold certified.
    b) a combination of layers inside the mattress, like a 2 inch firm with a 1 inch comfort layer.

I would reach out to Naturepedic too and see if they will help you out. I really think that 3 inches is too thick for a comfort layer. If you’re like me, you need some comfort with the medium latex, but 3 inches lets you sink too deeply. Maybe Naturepedic will help you out with a 3" firm latex and work a deal on the 2" medium latex comfort layer.

FYI. Years ago, I bought a traditional mattress. Just tried a few out at the store and bought the one that felt the best. I loved it and never had a comfort issue, but I also I also wonder is it had something to do with some serious health problems that I developed around that time. Fast forward I was exposed to some very dangerous chemicals (including TDI) for a prolonged period of time in a workplace renovation. Consequently, I became progressively ill and was also sensitized to many chemicals. I now have a serious reaction to solvents and TDI (used to make polyurethane), which has turned my life upside down. Therefore, I choose not to sleep on certain foams and chemically treated materials; thus, the Naturepedic.

So long as you have good center support. I’d take care with a solid platform, as I’ve heard that it can trap moisture.

I think it’s important to address this because others finding this later may not realize why this “smashed butt” feeling is happening. I currently have two 3" soft (20ILD) dunlop toppers on an air mattress base and I have the exact same issue when lying on my back (it pushes up on my rear and causes my hips to roll which hurts the lower back) and I’m working on a fix for it now. I have come to the conclusion after trying the exact same thing but with a 2" soft (22ILD) talalay topper folded to get 6" and I can tell you you don’t feel the same unsupported issue you do with the other configuration. This is because of the difference between the 2 materials and how they respond to load (I created a chart so you can see this difference in my DIY build thread). As it turns out talalay has alot more travel or give than dunlop as loads increase so it allows the bum to sink into the mattress which allows the lower back to also make contact and feel supported. Talalay tends to work much better where you have body parts that protrude into the mattress such as shoulders, hips and bums. If the base layer is lacking support you will usually feel the opposite feeling like your bum is falling into the bed creating more of a hammock effect (often causing pain or discomfort in the mid back). If someone is still having trouble getting the right balance of travel and support they can try zoning the lower support layers with different firmness foams but obviously you always want to try the simpler fixes first before trying something like that.

I’ve found that latex, in general, doesn’t conform to contours well, and this is likely a bigger issue with women. With adequate support from the base layer(s), I found that the micro-coils conform better to my contours and support the small of the back.

[quote=“empusa” post=87325]It looks like you bought the EOS, rather than the EOS pillowtop. I think I struggled with the “Smash Butt” problem too, and we’re about the same size. I understand that you have bottom to top: firm coils and Medium latex. I have the EOS pillowtop, so one more layer. I’m in the layer swap period, and just got the firm latex layer, so changed to: Firm BS, Firm Latex, Medium Microcoil, and I think this works. The two base layers keep my hips up and the micro coils fill in the small of my back. I can also sleep on my stomach. Before, I had Firm BC, Med Latex, Med Microcoil and found that the micro coils did support the small of my back, and it was comfy, but I just felt like my hips were sinking a bit. That said, it feels nice for side sleeping. It does not provide enough support to sleep on my stomach.

I think micro coils do a nice job of independently supporting the curves. I’m told by a mattress maker that latex doesn’t cradle well and the only way you’ll get that feel from a foam is with something like a memory foam, but there’s a reason you went with Naturepedic.

I think your issue may be that you need a firm base and a comfort layer that supports the small of your back. Unless there’s a problem with the support, I think your firm base coils should work. So if you have a firm latex on top of that with a topper that supports the small of your back, perhaps that would work well. I know it’s hard to put money into experiments, but a new mattress is an experiment too.

I just don’t think the micro coils work well sitting directly on top of the base coils… they need a more uniform support and suspect that sitting directly on top of the coils might damage them… I tried it.

So, what would I do if I were you.

  1. I’d make sure that the platform is well supported. I’m hoping you have good center support.
  2. I’d open it up and check the base coils, and make sure that there’s no problem there. Make sure you have uniform support and no coils are hung up.
  3. Consider:
    a) a 3" firm latex on top of the coils with a comfort topper. Maybe you can find a microcoil topper or a synthetic that’s green-guard gold certified.
    b) a combination of layers inside the mattress, like a 2 inch firm with a 1 inch comfort layer.

I would reach out to Naturepedic too and see if they will help you out. I really think that 3 inches is too thick for a comfort layer. If you’re like me, you need some comfort with the medium latex, but 3 inches lets you sink too deeply. Maybe Naturepedic will help you out with a 3" firm latex and work a deal on the 2" medium latex comfort layer.[/quote]

Thanks for the info I will try it out. I did try firm base coils with 1" of 44ild Dunlop with the 3" micro coils on top & that didn’t work on my stomach but I think the added firmness of 3" of firm dunlop under the microcoils may do the trick :smiling_face:

They have an extra firm base coil to, but it’s special order. I’m pretty small, so it would be overkill for me. My boyfriend is much larger, but prefers the medium latex under the medium microcoil, so go figure. He sleeps on his side mostly. I actually like the softer side, but need the firmer side for my back.

Are you talking about dunlop or talalay latex? Sounded like dunlop from your comments on latex not conforming well but it wasn’t really clear.

I’m referring to the Naturepedic EOS classic that’s the subject of this thread. Naturepedic offers an extra firm base coil, as a special order. The woman states that she had an issue with the coils and layers. I own the EOS pillowtop and I’m about her size, so I was offering some observations about my EOS.

Dunlop. The only experience that I have with talalay is plush and I find that too squishy. There is also no GOLS certified talalay that I’m aware of.