I’ve been on a sleep ez for almost 5 weeks now and I’m still struggling. Migrating from a Sealy Beachside latex mattress which I loved for 8 years, I picked up a Sleepez 9inch organic all talalay. First config was all talalay soft up top 2 inch, medium firm 3 inch and firm 3 inch. Tried various configurations, had lower back pain in the morning in any configuration I tried.
Finally switched out the soft and medium layer for a 2 inch medium talalay and a 3 inch extra firm dunlop. I’m currently sleeping on 2 inch medium talalay, 3 inch firm talalay, and 3 inch extra firm dunlop. Still getting lower back pain in the morning which goes away as soon as I stand up. I’m so frustrated cause I love the company and customer service and I’m getting concerned I won’t be able how to figure out a layer configuration so I don’t wake up in pain and I’ll have to return the mattress (which there’s no way I’ll refit those layers back into the boxes without figuring out how to vacuum seal them in haha)
The craziest thing is that I’m not a heavy person. I’m 5’6 and 155lb in good shape (good core strength and lift weights). I wouldn’t expect to need much support.
Going to sleep one more time tonight on the medium, firm, extra firm config and then switch to either:
Medium, Xtra firm, Xtra firm.
or
Firm, Xtra firm, and medium on bottom of matress.
I’m not sure what else to do and I’m worried if I go too firm I’ll eventually start feeling shoulders go numb or something…
I wish there was a way to train my body to sleep on it’s side or back cause I feel like all my problems would be gone if so.
Sorry about the difficulty you’re having finding a comfortable configuration, but if you end up having to return it I thought the following video on how to repack latex layers including vacuum compression would be helpful and one less thing you’d have to worry about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TduN3jU9488
Thanks for the video. If I can’t find a good layer config. What would you say I should do? Try out spring mattresses?
The prob is most matress stores near me in Rochester NY carry sealy, serta, and beauty rest
I wish I could be more helpful but can only share my experience which may not apply to your needs or preferences. When I’ve experienced lower back pain it’s not immediately noticeable when lying on the mattress but I wake up with it after an extended period. My lower back pain has been caused by a lack of adequate support causing my back to slightly arch, but I’m primarily a side sleeper and at 6’4 and 270 lbs. very different than your significantly more slender build.
Phoenix may be able to assist you further regarding suggested layer configurations which can also be very subjective and unique to different individuals. My problem is that when I find a mattress firm enough to maintain my alignment it is generally too hard and non-conforming resulting in bad pressure point pain in my arms and shoulders. It can be very difficult to find a perfect balance - I think I may just have to buy a mattress store to be able to find a solution! Good luck with your situation and I hope you’re able to find a combination which works well for you. I’d recommend staying away from the major brands that you mentioned as they tend to use inferior quality materials which are known for breaking down prematurely.
Thanks. I agree. I can’t test a matress effectively like you said cause I don’t know it will hurt me till after 5 hours of sleep. I’m really bummed cause I don’t wanna keep having to switch out layers and I’m sure sleepez doesn’t want me doing that either.
If you sleep truly prone, as you may be aware, this is the worst posture for your lumbar region, regardless of core strength. Everyone needs good deep support to assist with alignment. Your muscles relax a bit when sleeping at night, so maintenance of alignment falls mostly to the mattress itself. If you currently are testing the Mt, Ft, XFt and still finding that you have low back issues, the next configuration I would attempt would be Ft, Mt, XFt. This could allow a bit more surface firmness and still some plushness and “give” of the top layer. Also, be sure that your pillow is not too thick (if you’re using one), as this can also accentuate low back issues.
I’d be interested to learn how you would feel on this configuration.
Also, I’m not sure what you’re placing our new mattress upon, but make sure that it is a flat and firm surface as well.
So the first night of sleeping on talalay firm on top, talalay medium in middle and Dunlop firm on bottom felt alittle better than previous medium on top. However still woke with lower back aches (which is a great natural alarm clock). Standing up the pain went away considerably. The 2nd night (last night) I tried to experiment putting a beach towel folded up 3 times (about a half inch thick) under my pelvis to see if that would help but it didn’t and made me hurt alittle more than the previous night. I’m at the point where I would hire someone to X-ray my spine and me in bed to disgnose what’s going on. It even hurts to lay on my back in the morning after I’ve woken up. Cause how can I be struggling to sleep on a technologically superior matress compared to my old sealy beachside.
One of the things thou the sealy did have was that it was not flat. It had a firmer buttoned pillow top on it of crappy foam. I’m wondering if that foam though somehow provided better posture alignment allowing me to sink into the matress rather than lay on top of it.
I’d rather lay on top of a matress cause it’s cooler but maybe my spine is naturally curved in a way that doesn’t allow that. Or maybe I need to sleep on a matress in pain to get my spine to realign straight for a couple months?
I’m willing to spend more money to replace layers and such or get a different matress. I just want to get to a point where I can get a good nights sleep without pain in the morning. I’m not sure where to go or who to talk to. I’ll try again tonight to sleep without the towel under me.
The slightly firmer upper layer was an improvement, but you’re still not there, so if this configuration doesn’t work out the next logical configuration I’d suggest with what you have would be the Ft, XFt, Mt. It is true that you may not have an affinity for the point elasticity that latex, specifically Talalay, offers as compared to your old more traditional mattress using springs and polyfoam. And you are also correct that there is some “learned alignment” that you may need to overcome as you adjust to a new mattress. But that shouldn’t take months.
Tried Firm, Xfirm, medium last night, it was better. Hoping tonight will be better yet. Keep in mind Sealy beachside matress was 9 inches of dunlop latex plus 2 in of polyfoam on top I believe. I haven’t been on springs since i was a kid but I’m thinking that may be my next direction as it’s the only thing left i can try out in person at a store.
I’m guessing I could do a foam replacement of the medium talay for a firm or even extra firm talaly and let that be my upper layer when it arrives.
That’s good news. I know it is only one night, but you’re moving more in the direction we talked about back in May to a firmer upper comfort layer for stomach sleeping.
Your old mattress used 3" of low density polyfoam on top of a synthetic Dunlop core (which unfortunately didn’t have a great track history). I posted those specifications in one of my replies to you back in May if you’d like to see them again. I got confused for a second when I replied to you yesterday and thought I read “BackSaver” instead of “Beachside” in your post. The BackSaver was an innerspring line. My bad. :S
That certainly could be an option, but as I mentioned previously I don’t know that it would specifically be the solution, You’d need to make sure that whatever material you’re using on top would be firmer, and perhaps less point elastic.
Yes, you could try a Firm/Firm/Extra Firm (or rearrange to Firm/Extra Firm/Firm), or even a Firm/Extra Firm/Extra Firm.
So some more interesting info here. I replaced the 2inch medium layer with a 2 inch half xtra firm and half firm. Both seem to not really do much in terms of alleviating my back pain when waking up in the morning. I’m sleeping on Xtra firm dunlop on the bottom layer and firm talalay in the middle with the upper layers being the 2inch split firm or xtra firm.
The advantage now of being in back pain all the time is that i think i can better test out matresses to see what seems to support my back to feel more comfortable versus if I lay on the matress for 5 min I can feel the back pain get alittle worse. Interestingly the matress which felt the best to me but not “perfect” in alleviating my back pain was the beautyrest black desiree luxury firm. The calista felt too firm. I tried the desiree plush at a differnt store as well and it felt decent as well. Its hard for me to assess what was better since they were in two different stores.
I also tried the pure talaly bliss in pamper which is a firm model and after 5 minutes my back pain started to kick in. I am confused as to what is going on here since I’m a stomach sleeper and would expect firm latex to be ideal. The pure talalay bliss feels more firm and supportive than my sleep ez even. I don’t get it.
I also didn’t mind the Sterns and Foster La Castello II Plush.
I’m wondering though if there is something that feels similar to what I liked that i can order online and get a really good return policy on for a cheaper price than $1900 for that beautyrest which seems like a ripoff.
Should I look at a spring / latex hybrid matress? If so who’s the best companies to look at and which model would be best to emulate the Beautyrest Desiree?
I’m sorry you’re still having issues with your low back. It very well be that you don’t prefer the point elasticity of latex when sleeping on your stomach.
As I mentioned in my previous reply, I wouldn’t know that this is the answer for your or not – no one can predict that via an online forum. Only you would be able to tell via your own personal testing. But it may be that you want something less point elastic for your comfort materials, so perhaps looking at something using high-density polyfoam in the comfort layers that are firmer would be a thought.
If you’re considering doing this, then you should reacquaint yourself with the better quality and types of materials to look for when you go out shopping, as outlined here. I would avoid products using lower density polyfoams, as these will soften considerably in a shorter period of time and allow your back to sway in too much, which you’ve complained about. But you’ve also complained about a product with a harder surface comfort as well. Unfortunately, the major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with the major retailers that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren’t able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here).
As for trying to “match” a certain product, there is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can “match” or “approximate” another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress “as a whole” so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be fairly unlikely) then there really isn’t a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place).
Overall, and especially in your situation, the only reliable way to know for certain if a product might work well for you and match up with your own PPP would be based on your own careful testing or actual sleeping experience.
Appreciate your response Phoenix. I’ve done tons of reading on your site so I understand that I need to match my PPP. Here is the problem I live in Upstate NY (Rochester) . I went to the stores you recommend in your post on the area. I am limited here to big box corporate labels like serta, sealy, sterns, and simmons. There is also Pure Talalay bliss. I took a chance on sleep ez cause i really liked the customization and customer service being able to trial and error the mattress several times. I thought i was going to get a quality mattress online that might not be perfect on the first try but I could send back layers and get to that perfect point. That didn’t happen unfortunately. So options going forward are:
Go to crummy mattress stores locally and get a big box mattress like the Simmons one with lower quality components inside of it but something which I’m able to test and get pretty good idea of what I’ll be able to sleep on based on my PPP live in house test. Live with the overpriced crummy mattress for 5 years and buy a new one but at least I’ll sleep decent for 5 years.
Try another online shop which I won’t be able to test out for PPP and just have to guess if I’ll feel good or not on it. Is there a spring mattress store online with the same customer service quality that I can get out of a sleep ez and allowing me to customize the mattress after it arrives to my house based on my live PPP testing.
Am I missing any other options? I don’t think there’s a 3rd option for me to test out a “good quality” mattress locally for PPP unfortunately.
Have you visited Jamestown Mattress? They are in your area, and while they are not a site member here, they do have the ability to customize mattresses and they offer products using higher density foams than the other bands you mention.
They do offer different locations, so I don’t know if one if better than another in assisting with custom configurations. That was just one place that came to mind in your area.
Went back to Jamestown mattress, had a better experience this time. The mattress feel wasn’t as good as the Beautyrest black from what I can remember but I tested the two at least a few days apart so I need to test out both on the same day I think.
My question now is that the Jamestown matress uses: Symetrics® 660 Offset Technology for innerspring where as the Beautyrest I believe is pocket coil which from your site appears to be superior to the offset in the jamestown one. Now I know you’ll tell me that the Beautyrest Black has crummy low density polyfil in it compared to the Jamestown one but I’m wondering what you know about the innerspring design in the jamestown mattress and if that could be a weak link down the road?
There’s one other place I haven’t tried yet in Rochester called sleep city who carries Dr. Green and America’s mattress. I’ve never heard of these and wondering if they are on par with Sealy and Serta as far as big box brands.
Also wondering about Ruby Gordon who has some kind of “bed match” system which gives you a print out of what kind of mattress your body needs. I’m not sure if this is a gimmick or if I should bother with it. They have Serta, Simmons, Restonic, and Kingsdown which all seem like big box type brands.
Lastly, wondering if there is anything in Buffalo, Syracuse, Toronto, New York City or anything in a 3-4 hour drive worth trying…
There is some more information about some of the basic differences in innerspring units in this article. I’m not sure where you’ve read that the mashall spring unit is superior to the Lura-Flex Symetrics used in the Jamestown mattress, as they can both be good quality and durable products, each with their own unique characteristics (as outlined in the article I linked to earlier in this paragraph).
No, the LFK spring unit in the Jamestown is not low quality, and the innerspring unit in a mattress is rarely the “weak link” to begin with. Regarding foam quality, yes, the Beautyrest line tends to use less dense foams (look at Jordans web site should you need some details), but I wouldn’t know the quality of the foams in the mattress you looked at from Jamestown as you didn’t provide that information, so I can’t comment upon that. I would always make sure that you find out the information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.
A mattress is only as good as the construction and quality of the layers inside it and in the case of the Dr. Greene mattress of Serta and most major manufacturers they don’t disclose the quality of the materials and I would avoid any mattress (even for testing) where there is no way to know the quality of what you are considering. No matter how it feels in a showroom … low quality materials (especially in the upper layers) will soften and break down more rapidly and the loss of comfort and support that goes along with this can happen quite quickly (a few months to a few years) and isn’t covered by a warranty … even if you can no longer sleep on the mattress.
Most of the pressure mapping systems are specific to a certain line of mattress and aren’t really relevant to mattresses as a whole which have different constructions. They also only measure surface pressure (which you can often feel in your own personal testing) but don’t provide input into alignment or how the pressure is distributed in the deeper body tissues or include the differences in physiology between people (pressure affects different people differently). There are a few more comments in post #2 here and post #4 here about pressure mapping systems.
They can be a useful tool for stores that have them available and where the results can translate into the specific mattress you are most interested in but they wouldn’t be the primary way I would make a purchase decision or be that useful if the mattress you are buying is different from the one you tested and the testing results can’t be easily “translated” into a mattress with a different design.
In New York City, site members Dixie Foam Beds, Nest Bedding and Scott Jordan Furniture may be worth your consideration. Dormio Organic beds are located in Toronto if you are considering latex again. Those would be the site members listed for the areas you mentioned.
Aside from those businesses, I have discontinued the provision of listings of potential retailers in various geographic regions (unless they are already approved site members), because of the difficulty in maintaining such lists in a retail landscape that is constantly changing, and most importantly the confusion it was creating with the consumer members who incorrectly assumed that these businesses had indeed gone through the strict vetting and qualification process that is part of becoming an approved member of The Mattress Underground. Such an assumption is unfair to both the consumers seeking assistance, as well as the very businesses and manufacturers who have indeed qualified the be members here of The Mattress Underground.
You can perform a forum search on the areas you mentioned and see what other businesses have been discussed in that region on the forum which may be helpful to you.
Whatever business you’re considering, I would always confirm that any retailer or manufacturer that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article) and also make sure that any mattress that you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here.
If you have any questions about specifications or certain products you discover, feel free to post back on the forum and I’ll do my best to be assistive.
Based on that info, i searched for more info and found this which is based on latex mattress from the same place, I gotta think they use the same foam toppers though in a spring mattress…
It appears as though they use somewhat decent foam at 1.5lb to 1.7 from the above thread. My last concern is breathability here and sleeping cool. Is polyfoam cool to sleep on? I’m assuming air spring mattress should be cooler than latex foam which I like but I’m wondering how that polyfoam is going to sleep.
Thanks for providing the information on the mattress you are considering. Unfortunately, I wouldn’t rely on the types of foams that are used in other mattresses within their lineup to determine the density of the materials that might be used in the mattress you listed. I would be sure to confirm those densities with Jamestown before making any final decisions.
As for breathability, polyfoam can be quite breathable (generally not quite as much as latex), but as you are considering an innerspring product, you do have a rather large “hollow” are in the center of the mattress to assist with air circulation. Additionally, you’re considering something that is a bit firmer, and as all foams insulate to a degree, you wouldn’t tend to sleep “in” a product like this as much as a softer mattress, so you wouldn’t tend to be “insulated” as much, which can assist with cooler sleeping.
