*** ADMIN NOTE: This reply was originally a reply to post #35 here but was split into a new topic of its own. ***
Hi TemporaryCatatonic,
I have read most of the information on the Old Bed Guy site and while he does make “some” good points and provide “some” good information … there is also a lot of misinformation and contradictions on the site as well and it can be difficult to differentiate the good information from the information there that is much less reliable. As to his comments about The Mattress Underground (such as here among others on the site as well)… it’s clear to me that he has never taken the time to read much of the information here and has a completely inaccurate and distorted view of what this site is all about. I wrote a reply to one of his articles and linked to some of the more specific information here (some of which ironically enough agrees with some of what he says) so he would have a more accurate idea of the type of information that was provided here and be able to make more accurate and less deceptive comments but he never took the time to reply.
Strangely enough … I just noticed that since I wrote the reply he did edit some of the comments he had made previously but the new comments are just as misleading and inaccurate as they were before. Very odd.
Some of the more knowledgeable people I know in the industry that have read his site and shared their comments with me believe that either he has lost his ability to think or write clearly or has some agenda that is more interested in his own personal self promotion than providing truthful and accurate information to his readers. He also appears to be stuck in a “time warp” and doesn’t appear to have kept up to date about new ideas, materials, or components in the industry and he clearly “thinks” he knows a lot more than he really does. Some of his comments about some very good manufacturers in the industry (and about this site as well) are nonsensical. He could certainly do much better IMO.
I’ve also added the content of the two communications I’ve had with him at the end of this post after my signature. One which was a reply to his blog article about the site which he never published or replied to and the other was an email which he never replied to either.
Somewhat arrogantly … he also considers his site to be one of only two reliable sources of information and the “other one” is Consumer Reports which is also widely considered in the more knowledgeable parts of the industry to be an unreliable source of mattress information as well and you can see my comments about them in post #2 here and in this topic.
In their latest report that was released this year they “tested” only 58 mattresses out of many thousands in the industry that included some of the worst quality/value and least transparent manufacturers in the industry and for the most part ignored the many thousands of mattresses that are better quality/value made by dozens of smaller independent manufacturers across the country that are completely transparent and will tell you everything you need to know about the quality of the materials in their mattresses. They also didn’t seem to realize or understand that a mattress that is suitable for one person may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on so their “recommendations” and “ratings” are so subjective that they do much more harm than good by encouraging consumers to believe that their recommendation is all that they need to find a suitable and good quality/value mattress. They also don’t provide any specific information about how to assess the quality of the materials inside a mattress, much of the information in their buying guide is incomplete and misleading at best and harmful at worst, and in essence they do more to perpetuate the “status quo” of the industry than anything else. Strangely enough … they even consider latex to be a variation of memory foam …
While their “intentions” may have been good … because of their lack of knowledge about mattresses, mattress materials, and how to choose a mattress, they completely dropped the ball and their execution was awful.
It’s unfortunate that some of the so called “expert” sites and sources that are so common in the industry and on the internet are so full of misinformation that they can often end up doing more harm than good (see post #12 here) and end up perpetuating the problems in the industry rather than being part of their solution.
ADDED: I have since learned that the Old Bed Guy used to own Klein Sleep which was a large mattress retailer in New York that went bankrupt in the early 1990’s and was bought out by Sleepy’s (see “Surviving the Early 1990s” here). Unfortunately they didn’t pay the suppliers that were owed money so the bankruptcy also ended up putting a small Restonic factory out of business as well. He would have been at retirement age at the time which probably explains why some of the information on his site is so dated.
Even worse though … he is the father of the president of Charles P Rogers which explains his “agenda” and the reason that he promotes them so heavily on his site. Outside of the other misinformation and contradictions on his site and his attacks on this site (and others as well) and on some good manufacturers in the industry … not disclosing this family connection is incredibly deceptive to say the least.
Phoenix
Reply to the Old Bed Guy blog post on Oct 22nd, 2014 which was never published or replied to:
Hi Marshall,
Good article with some good points … but your comments about The Mattress Underground make me wonder if you have ever spent any time on the site. As you can see in posts like thishttps://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/where-to-get-clay-like-hard-long-lasting-memory-foam … we share similar thoughts about the so called “value” of mattress reviews so I find some of your comments somewhat ironic. Not only that … some of the thoughts you also share about a mattress being a blind purchase and purchasing from a good factory direct manufacturer with generations of experience we also have in common. One of the biggest goals of my site is to help teach consumers how to make informed choices based on factual information so that they don’t have to make a “blind” purchase. We also share similar thoughts about manufacturers and retailers that have no history or presence in the “real world”.
I would encourage you to spend some time on the site to see what is really being said and the type of guidance that is being offered. A good place to start to get a better sense of the type of information that is there would be the mattress shopping tutorial https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/how-to-look-for-and-find-the-best-mattress-for-you-read-first . There also isn’t a single paid review or any advertising anywhere on the site and there isn’t even a review section on the site.
You may be surprised at what you find if you really take the time to read some of the information there.
I don’t expect you to post this but if you do feel free to remove the links. They were more for your benefit and I just wanted you to see them because based on some of the content you have written you seem to be an honest person that is genuinely interested in presenting factual information and I thought you would appreciate being able to read about some of the goals and objectives of the site so you could represent what it was … and wasn’t … a little more accurately
Phoenix
Email sent on Jan 18th, 2015 to which I also received no reply (email or phone call)
Subject: Your Blog Comments about The Mattress Underground
Hello “Marshall Coyle”,
I replied to your blog post about my site some time ago but I never received a reply from you and when I looked today I saw a reply to your blog from The Organic Bedroom (Joey Ashley) that was such a blatant lie and so hypocritical that I thought I would email you directly. It’s rare that something I read on the internet upsets me but this was so far over the line of anything ethical or accurate that I have to admit that it did.
It’s true that Joey was a member of my forum and posted frequently for a short while but he decided to take a more confrontational and inflammatory approach, was trying to promote his store on the forum (where there is no advertising or self promotion by businesses allowed), and was engaging in personal attacks which are all against the rules of the forum. After many warnings and after continuing to do the same repeatedly I finally had to ban him from the forum (one of only 7 people that I have had to ban over a period of 4 years), much to the relief of many forum members that emailed me to thank me for removing him and commenting on my patience and how long I let him continue. While I did talk with him on the phone for an hour or so (as I have done and continue to do with many hundreds of retailers and manufacturers across the country as part of my ongoing research to find out more about them) … he was never invited to become a member of my site and this is the lie that prompted this email to you. Ironically … his store was (and still is) listed as one of the better options or possibilities in the Raleigh/Durham area as you can see here (I kept his listing even after he was banned because I thought it was the right thing to do) and he has made sales because of his forum listing on my site and yet he is still angry because he was banned from the forum and somehow feels that it’s OK to lie as part of some kind of ego based personal vendetta. If you are interested you can see his posts by clicking here. You can also see my replies to him by clicking here or you can read the complete topics and all the posts in order in each topic to see their context by clicking on any of the search results I linked.
After he was banned he re-registered with several fake ID’s and tried to continue posting or posing as fake customers that were “praising” The Organic Bedroom but these fake registrations were also banned (the forum software I use flags duplicate IP addresses). He has also “changed his tune” somewhat as you can see from these quotes from two of his posts (and others if you read his posts) …
[b]OK here is a comment from the one who give Phoenix a rough time and who he threatens to kick off every few days 
He is not a crook. He really doesnt have a hidden agenda, I have spoken with him and the way I would describe him is he is a mattress nerd. My guess is he has some sort of engineering background and has gone a bit crazy in his evaluations and although I adamantly disagree with some of the stuff he says and on other areas I think he just doesnt get the entangables, I will defend him in the fact that he is passionate about what he is doing and he has good intentions and has helped many people out (although I certainly do not agree with everything he says).
phoenix and I had a conversation of about an hour the other night we agree on 90% of things the part I dont agree on is buying a mattress online. Its something regardless of what it is made of you need to lay on feel it… for you who has had such a bad experiance it is wort a trip to visit someone and I would say yes even if you had to hop on a plane. Where you spend 1/3 of your life should not be decided on price or online it makes no sense. You are welcome to google my company the organic bedroom and call me if you need any advice. However Phoenix and I do agree on a lot of other items however this is just one of them we do not and never will. Price should not be the factor when deciding where you spend a 1/3 of your life. Makes no sense what so ever. Would you buy your house online never actually visiting it? And on the other item if there was a shop in town and it was a couple of hundred bucks more its worth it as that shop will be there when you need them in the future. Best of luck on your search. [/b]
It was also disconcerting to see your reply which unfortunately “buys into” everything that he is saying without even checking to see if it’s accurate or truthful and is also completely off the mark. If you believe (as you seem to) that the primary motivation of my site is money it would probably shock you to find out who I have turned down as members and they include some of the largest retailers in the industry that would dwarf the current membership list combined in terms of their sales. It may also surprise you to find out some of the history behind the site, why I started it, how it really works, and how and why I invite the retailers and manufacturers that I do. The forum also includes hundreds of local lists that include several thousand retailers or manufacturers from all across the country that include the better local options or possibilities in every area of the country. The vast majority of these (over 95%) aren’t members of the site. The large majority of the mattresses that people purchase as a result of the information on my site are purchased from these retailers or manufacturers that aren’t members and for which I receive no referrals because I point to value or potential value wherever I see it regardless of their membership. Like you … I also don’t make specific recommendations for any specific mattresses or companies.
Needless to say … most of what you are writing about me and my site and how it works is completely inaccurate and if you really have the ethics that you portray on your site and if in spite of what you have written you have the courage to find out the truth about what I believe, the reasons that I started the site, what I stand for, what I know (or don’t) about the industry, and the type of advice I provide, it would make sense to find out the facts about what you are writing. You may also be surprised at the similarities between what we believe.
I invite you to talk to me on the phone if you really want to find out whether what you are writing is accurate or truthful and at the same time I would be interested to know why you have decided to pursue a vendetta of your own against someone who you know very little about and who probably shares many (although probably not all) of your thoughts and opinions about the industry.
My phone number is (xxx) xxx-xxxx (number removed) if you are interested in talking to find out “the rest of the story”.
Phoenix