Discerning latex, hybrid, motion control solution

My husband and I are ready to retire our 2012 Serta iComfort mattress (maybe Renewal Refined). In searching for information about what we were actually sleeping on, I was lucky to find this forum. Thanks to the contributions of many, I have exponentially increased my mattress IQ. To avoid durability issues with memory foam and to reduce allergy issues, we are considering latex.

We checked out latex hybrids and a couple of all latex models available where we live (Austin, Texas). Urban Mattress has moved away from all latex reportedly because of weight but we appreciate their transparency about mattress components. The representative at Austin Natural Mattress was not forthcoming with technical specs about the components or knowledgeable about ILD of the all-latex mattresses they showed us. Like many sales representatives, they touted the wrong points to win over this customer (warranty and total price rather than information about what the products actually include to allow me to understand what I am getting and why I like/didn’t like how it felt).

Besides the old and compressed memory foam of our current mattress, motion control is the primary issue that interrupts sleep for me. I feel every single movement on any bed and have had tech neck and low back challenges since 2020 (could be mattress gone bad, shift to working from home, or combination). We’ve decided to go with two twin XL mattresses to try to eliminate motion though we’ll share the same bed foundation (wooden slats a little less than 2” apart). Can anyone opine on the difference in motion transference between two twin XLs and a split king with all layers on both sides separated?

Me - 54, 5’5”, 155-160, back sleeper turning to side early am

Him - 57, 6’2”, 235-240, back sleeper turning to side early am, broad shoulders, hot sleeper

Mattresses we did not love (we each felt like these did not have enough support and/or not enough comfort; husband could feel the coils on most)

  • 2 different Naturepedic EOS latex hybrids
  • Birch latex hybrid
  • Nest Owl
  • Wink EcoCloud hybrid

Mattresses we liked

  • Posh+Lavis Ultra Plush Refine (a bit too soft for me but husband liked it)
  • Urban Mattress Camellia (but wary of the longevity and makeup of the 1.5” HR cold foam layer)

I am inclined to pursue a mattress with adjustable layers because I want a solution that will serve us for a long time and be adaptable as we age. Don’t want 100% DIY. Given the inability to compare apples to apples in person, it is difficult to effectively assess whether we’d do better with a hybrid or an all latex mattress and identify a combination of Talalay and Dunlop layers. Husband is not so sure about online but I believe he could be convinced if I can minimize the amount of trial and error swapping might require. I have already explained that even if we could try out all the beds, we’ll still need some time to adjust before we could make a fair assessment.

I would appreciate suggestions and input for how to figure out what would make sense for our situation? What should I be asking any mattress retailer? What have I not addressed in this post that is relevant to the path forward?

Hi auntlibee,
Welcome to the MattressUnderGround and becoming a new MUGster!

Thank you for providing some background and profile information regarding your past and potential future history in selecting a new mattress.

Let’s discuss the advantages and differences regarding twin xl’s and split internal mattresses. Then we can talk a little about the types of foams you may want a mattress comprised with.

Twin XL Mattress vs. Split Internal Layer Mattress:

  1. Size and Configuration:
  • Twin XL Mattress: A Twin XL mattress is a standard size mattress that measures 38 inches in width and 80 inches in length. It’s designed to accommodate a single sleeper comfortably, providing ample space for one person. Two twin xl’s are often set together either on a split king boxsprings, or two separate adjustable beds to create a king sleep system.
  • Split Internal Layer Mattress: This type of mattress typically consists of two separate halves, each with its own set of internal layers. These halves can often be customized to suit the preferences of two individual sleepers. When combined, they usually form a standard King or Queen size mattress( I just recently purchased a @DLX Premier Hybrid split internal queen (firm/medium) for my MiLaw. As she was unable to test it first, due to a variety of health and physical limitations. I am happy to report, she is in love with the firm side and much of her previous back pain is now gone. She is a widow, so she sleeps alone and motion isolation is not an issue.
  1. Versatility:
  • Twin XL Mattresses: Two twin XL mattresses are versatile in that different levels of “feel” can be used for each mattress to create a king mattress. Some will complain about the space between being an issue, but manufacturers have come up with a myriad of solutions to combat this problem
  • Split Internal Layer Mattress: This type of mattress offers greater versatility, especially for couples with differing comfort preferences. Each side of the mattress can be customized to suit the specific needs of each sleeper, allowing for a more personalized sleeping experience.
  1. Comfort and Support:
  • Twin XL Mattress: The comfort and support of a Twin XL mattress are generally consistent across the entire surface since it’s a single unit. However, the level of comfort can vary based on the materials used and the firmness level chosen.
  • Split Internal Layer Mattress: With a split internal layer mattress, each sleeper has the option to customize their side of the bed according to their individual preferences for firmness, support, and other comfort factors. This can lead to a more tailored and comfortable sleeping experience for both individuals.
  1. Motion Isolation:
  • Twin XL Mattresses: Motion transfer is minimized if sleepers frequently move during the night. Mainly this is because each sleeper is sleeping on their own mattress.
  • Split Internal Layer Mattress: Because each side of the mattress is separate, motion transfer is often minimized. This means that movements on one side of the bed are less likely to be felt by the other sleeper, promoting better undisturbed sleep. It can be a tricky thing on some internal split mattresses though. Some use a full king support layer and sometimes transition layer, and only split the internal comfort layer. While motion transfer is minimized, it may not be eliminated.
  1. Cost:
  • Twin XL Mattresses: Generally, Twin XL mattresses are more affordable compared to split internal layer mattresses due to their simpler construction and smaller size although, you will need two twix xl’s to create your king at a cost that is usually more than a king alone.
  • Split Internal Layer Mattress: Split internal layer mattresses tend to be more expensive verses their solid king counterparts, due to the customization options and the fact that they essentially consist of two mattresses in one.
  1. Assembly and Maintenance:
  • Twin XL Mattresses: Assembly is straightforward with a Twin XL mattress since it’s a single unit and you simply slide the two together, this can be accomplished in two ways. One is to have a king foundation, platform, slatted foundation or a king boxspring, with the twin mattresses on top. The other is to have a pair of twin xl box springs on a frame with the split layers for each sleeper as you get to the cover layers of the mattress. Two adjustable base foundations may be used or a split head configuration.

Maintenance typically involves rotating the mattress periodically to ensure even wear.

  • Split Internal Layer Mattress: Assembling a split internal layer mattress involves joining the two halves together, usually with a connector or strap. Maintenance may be more involved since each side of the mattress may have different care requirements.

When it comes to the feel of the mattress system, foams used and motion isolation there is a lot to unpack.

Twin XL Mattresses:
Motion Isolation: Twin XL mattresses typically offer limited motion isolation due to their single-unit construction. Movement on one mattress is not likely to transfer across the entire surface, potentially disturbing the other sleeper on the other twin xl mattress.

Foam Types:

Memory Foam: Memory foam mattresses are known for their excellent motion isolation properties. The viscoelastic material absorbs movement, preventing it from transferring across the bed. However, memory foam can retain heat and may feel too soft for some sleepers.

Latex Foam: Latex foam mattresses also provide decent motion isolation but may not be as effective as memory foam. Latex foam tends to have a more responsive feel and better airflow, offering a cooler sleep surface compared to memory foam.

Internal Split Mattresses:

Motion Isolation: Internal split mattresses excel in motion isolation due to their separate halves. Each side of the bed operates independently, minimizing the transfer of motion between sleepers. This design significantly reduces disturbances caused by partner movement during the night.

Foam Types:

Memory Foam: Memory foam is an excellent choice for split internal mattresses, offering superior motion isolation on each side of the bed. Sleepers can enjoy personalized comfort without compromising on motion isolation. However, memory foam mattresses may trap heat, leading to potential temperature regulation issues.

Latex Foam: Latex foam can also be used in split internal mattresses, providing moderate motion isolation. While not as effective as memory foam in this regard, latex foam offers a more responsive feel and better breathability, making it suitable for sleepers who prefer a cooler sleep surface.

Advantages and disadvantages of different foams and fibers:

Memory Foam:

Material:
Memory foam is a viscoelastic polyurethane foam that contours to the body’s shape in response to heat and pressure.

Advantages:

Excellent pressure relief: Memory foam molds to the body, relieving pressure points and promoting spinal alignment.

Superior motion isolation: It absorbs motion, reducing disturbances from a restless partner.

Durability: High-quality memory foam mattresses can last for many years.

Disadvantages:

Heat retention: Memory foam tends to trap body heat, potentially causing discomfort for some sleepers.

Slow responsiveness: Some sleepers may find it difficult to change positions quickly due to the slow response of memory foam.

Latex Foam:

Material: Latex foam is derived from the sap of rubber trees (natural latex) or synthesized from petrochemicals (synthetic latex).

Advantages:

Responsiveness: Latex foam provides a more bouncy and responsive feel compared to memory foam.

Durability: Latex foam mattresses are often more durable and resilient than memory foam mattresses.

Natural options available: Natural latex mattresses are eco-friendly and hypoallergenic.

Disadvantages:

Cost: Latex foam mattresses tend to be more expensive than memory foam mattresses.

Potential allergies: Some individuals may be allergic to latex.

Polyfoam (Polyurethane Foam):

Material: Polyfoam is a type of foam made from polyurethane, available in different densities and firmness levels.

Advantages:

Affordability: Polyfoam mattresses are generally more budget-friendly than memory foam or latex mattresses.

Variety: Polyfoam mattresses come in various firmness options to suit different preferences.

Lightweight: Polyfoam mattresses are typically lighter and easier to move than other types of mattresses.

Disadvantages:

Durability: Polyfoam mattresses may not be as durable as memory foam or latex mattresses and may develop impressions over time.

Heat retention: Depending on the formulation, polyfoam mattresses may retain heat.

Natural Fibers:

Materials: Natural fibers such as cotton, wool, and silk are sometimes used in mattress construction, either as comfort layers or covers.

Advantages:

Breathability: Natural fibers offer excellent breathability, promoting airflow and temperature regulation.

Eco-friendly: Mattresses made with natural fibers are often considered more environmentally friendly.

Hypoallergenic: Natural fibers like wool can have natural antimicrobial properties and are resistant to dust mites.

Disadvantages:

Cost: Mattresses made with natural fibers tend to be more expensive than synthetic alternatives.

Maintenance: Some natural fibers may require special care, such as dry cleaning or spot cleaning.

Availability: Mattresses made solely from natural fibers may be less common and harder to find than those made from foam.

Each type of mattress material—memory foam, latex foam, polyfoam, and natural fibers—offers unique characteristics in terms of comfort, support, durability, and environmental impact. The best choice depends on individual preferences, budget, and specific sleep needs.

Thank you for the in depth analysis. We plan to proceed with two twin XL mattresses - either all latex or latex hybrid. Any suggestions for how to figure out which of these is right for us?

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From my personal standpoint, I lean towards the hybrid option, particularly when dealing with sleepers weighing over 210lbs. While I acknowledge the durability and popularity of latex among many of our trusted members, I haven’t quite warmed up to the idea of all-foam mattresses fully replacing the supportive function of high-quality coil springs.

That’s just my perspective. I anticipate some resistance from colleagues like @CST, @FloBeds (our talalay pros), as well as @Arizona_Premium and @Sleep_EZ, our experts in latex and hybrid mattresses. However, I firmly believe that heavier individuals fare better with a robust spring support core compared to any type of foam as a support core.

Ultimately, mattress choice boils down to personal preference and familiarity. The further you venture from what you’re accustomed to, the more room there is for critique.

I recommend taking the time to test each option thoroughly. When shopping with your partner, observe each other lying on the mattress individually and together, especially if considering a king or split comfort design. Spend at least 20-30 minutes on each mattress to allow your bodies to adjust and assess posture and alignment. This is crucial for evaluating initial comfort levels. If either of you sinks too deeply, it may be wise to explore alternative options. The same advice applies to Twin XL mattresses, though observing each other separately suffices since you’ll essentially be sleeping in separate beds which even when pushed together, disrupting motion will not be an issue. Bring your own pillow if necessary, as it will be a key indicator if your pillow is keeping your posture and alignment in form, or perhaps, a new pillow is necessary.

Best of luck,

Maverick

Hi Auntibee and Maverick,

Phenomenal conversation. I do have to stand up for an all Talalay Latex mattress construction however.

We have made many mattresses for individuals with weight profiles over 250 lbs. What’s important is matching the top comfort layers with an appropriate combination of support layers below. The support layers below will absolutely influence the feel and comfort of the top layers.

I am of the opinion that a mattress with 6" of 44 ILD in the bottom layer will match any spring system on the market. Actually, with the support ILD’s ranging from 32 ILD to 44 ILD, you can make several configurations of firmness that I don’t believe you can match with an inner-spring system. What’s truly important is that the top 6" needs to accommodate the sleeper’s unique body characteristics.

From a Talalay Latex perspective, I would suggest a 12-inch mattress that has the following construction.

For her, I would recommend a 32ILD and 36 ILD combination in layers 3 and 4, and a 28 ILD in the second layer, and a top layer that is split 24 ILD under the shoulders and 19 ILD under the hips. All layers are 3" in thickness.

For him, I would recommend a 6" of 44 ILD in the bottom, a 36 ILD in the second layer and the top layer split 28 ILD under the shoulders and 32 ILD under the hips.

The reason for the split construction on the top layers is that it will help to place the spine in a more natural and stress-free position. Taking stress off your muscles is critical.

Now I certainly agree that Talalay Latex is more expensive than constructions utilizing an inner-spring system but the versatility of latex in terms of creating different feels is, in my opinion, unmatched. It’s the top 6 inches that will place the body in the correct position and provide the comfort necessary to achieve high-quality sleep.

That’s my pushback for today.

I wish you all the best and sleep well.

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I knew that our experts would chime in with the perfect combination for the larger sleeper crowd. I welcome that perspective and CST has the configurations to back it up.

If you have not seen their website and what they can do with precisely matching the sections of the mattress with the matching areas of the body look at the CST Performance Mattress and dont forget the
to look at CST’s profile here at TMU CST Profile Thanks to CST for the pushback! :grinning:

Great input on an all Talalay construction, CST. We have slept on an all foam mattress for 12 years so the shift to latex without coils does not in and of itself strike me as an issue. When we tested out latex mattresses, we tried several latex hybrids. Then we tried all latex options and liked those better. We were able to effectively compare firmness levels of an all-Dunlop construction. And, we compared that to an all Dunlop with Talalay top layer construction (two firmness levels). The Dunlop/Talalay combination provided the support and comfort combination we liked. An all-Talalay option is not available anywhere nearby to test out.

From what I have read, the difference in feel between Dunlop and Talalay layers is described as the Talalay being springier. That is what I felt when comparing the top layers. What do people say about how Talalay core layers feel? If I know generally that a construction of Dunlop core layers with a Talalay top layer might be a good combination for us and that Dunlop is less expensive, what reasons should I consider whether to “spring” for Talalay core layers?

@CST

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I will throw in my take and let @CST crush me again. LOL

Talalay latex is known for its consistency and buoyancy.

It undergoes a more complex manufacturing process that involves vacuum sealing, freezing, and baking. This results in a lighter, perceived softer, and more breathable foam compared to Dunlop latex. Talalay latex tends to have a more uniform cell structure, providing consistent support across the entire surface. It’s often preferred for its luxurious feel and responsiveness, making it suitable for comfort layers in mattresses. But it is often used as a support layer as well. Providing that same consistent and predictable support due to its uniform structure.

Yes, you might say that Talalay is springier than Dunlop as the density of dunlop becomes greater the deeper you compress into it. It is distinctly noticeable in a pillow when you squeeze it with you thumb and pointer finger. The Talalay pillow has that soft feeling springy bounce, top to bottom. The Dunlop, you notice a bit more resistance when performing that same “squeeze.”

When examining the Dunlop process and it’s characteristics.

Dunlop latex is denser and seemingly firmer than Talalay latex.

The Dunlop process involves pouring latex sap into a mold and allowing it to vulcanize. This simpler process produces a foam that is heavier, usually described as "bottom heavy as the particles settle to the bottom of the slab when produced, resulting in a slightly uneven cell structure. While Dunlop latex may not offer the same level of bounce and uniformity as Talalay, it does excels in durability and long-lasting support. Although, @FloBeds did their own non scientific experiment that showcased Talalay’s long term durabity and response seen here.

Although commonly Dunlop is used as a supportive core layer in mattresses, as it does have a higher “support factor” both talalay and dunlop can be made to similar ILD’s and Talalay can not and should not be discounted as another superior support layer that you will find in high quality mattresses. You can make a case for either as a support layer and a comfort layer, although most will find the talalay offers that more plush like feel in the comfort layer.

Maverick.