Does all talalay work well for anyone? Back in mattress hell

Mattress Talk 3) Needs & Personal Preferences
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I thought I found my perfect mattress, which happened to be all talalay, but after the first few nights of feeling pretty good.. the last 3 weeks have just continue to go downhill. I travel internationally for work and need to recharge when I’m home, but have been experiencing the complete opposite. It feels so discouraging.

I am a tricky case it seems because I have back issues (herniated disc, scoliosis, sciatica) but am light weight (105 pounds, 5’5"). I have been told to go with firm for the back issues, but soft because of my weight. So what is the solution? :expressionless_face:

Right now I have:
14-18 ILD extra soft talalay (I was just sent a 19 ILD soft to swap out the extra soft)
24 ILD medium talalay
36 ILD firm talalay

I thought it was just an adjustment period maybe, or the fact that I had the mattress directly on the Thuma slats (which killed my back!).. but I recently bought a solid foldable bunkie board to test out the surface and it’s much better, but the mattress is still waking me up every.single.night. just after 4 hours of sleep. It feels torturous. Why does it have to be so hard?

My question is, does all talalay work for anyone? I feel like there may be too much push back from it overnight.. but for a few hours it’s ok. Directly on the slats is not an option for me, my spine is too sensitive to have any micro dips. I suppose dunlop on the bottom layers would work better, as long as it isn’t too hard overall? I have a friend who has a Savvy Rest and has medium dunlop x2, soft talalay, and the wool topper. She loves it, but as we know, mattresses are so individual. I was told a thin wool topper could help neutralize the pushback of the talalay comfort layer, but not sure how much that will help with 3 layers of all talalay..

Maybe I only need two layers since I am petite? Three 3" layers might be overkill, and right now, feels like it’s pushing back into my spine. I know Savvy makes the tranquility, which is only 2 layers. Apparently that one is made for small adults and children.

Before experimenting with latex, I slept on a Cariloha firm bamboo memory foam mattress. Worked for me for about 7 years and then I decided I wanted something fully non toxic and good for my back. So here we are. It’s been a long journey. I was sleeping on 2 dunlop layers on my living room floor for 9 months before investing in this mattress. It’s a great mattress, but I don’t think it’s working for my situation.. sigh. Please help!

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I have a firm mattress with a 2 inch Talalay medium topper. It’s perfect for me. The right amount of support and the topper gives the right amount of cushion. Good luck.

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I saw that you have the Soledad! I actually have the presidio medium soft from Mattress Makers. They are amazing. I just don’t think this particular mattress is working for me unfortunately.. did you ever try an all latex build? Also, do you mind sharing where you bought your medium talalay topper from?

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Hey cupcake25.

Both are true.

You need a softer, probably thinner comfort layer to sink into, and a firmer support layer underneath.

Yes, but that doesn’t automatically mean it’s going to work for you.

Could you try this for now and see what happens?

14-18 (or 19, whichever you have on hand at the moment) ILD extra soft talalay
36 ILD firm talalay

How was that experience? Better? Worse?

NikkiTMU

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I agree.. if I use any talalay it will be 2” max on top of a Dunlop build. My body doesn’t do well with all talalay- lesson learned!

The temporary Dunlop build is definitely too firm on the bottom BUT still way better for me than the all talalay. So bummed. I was so close…

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Talalay is more “airy” than dunlop. Better for pressure relief often used as the top comfort layer. You are on the light end def. Really light. What is Firm or Soft is absolutely weight dependent. So be wary of how they label latex layers. What are the thicknesses of the layers? Both the talalay version and the dunlop you slept on? ILDs of the dunlop? Are you a side sleeper im guessing? What hurts when you wake up in the night? Is the current tal setup too firm you feel?

Ok so sorry 3 x 3" layers I missed that. THe bottom is the support layer. Are you a back side sleeper? How does that layer feel alone to lay on? Prob super firm at your weight. You still have the dunlop layers? WHat are the thicknesses ILDSs? Like i have boney shoulders hips everything really low BF percentage. I know you want to sleep on less chemicals but I have a 1 inch memory foam layer I use that can be used in different positions depending on what you’re going for. MF does help with contouring and pressure relief.

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Thanks for your comment Nate! Sorry I have been traveling internationally for work and still not home at the moment so I got behind on the forum replies. I only have 3” layers right now- for both Dunlop and Talalay. I tried a 2” avocado Dunlop about a year ago but ended up returning that when I returned the Avocado green mattress.

So I always start sleeping on my back but turn to my sides because I can’t stay comfortable enough on my back all night. I think an adjustable base could help fix that.

Right now my all talalay mattress (which I will be swapping out the firm talalay for firm Dunlop when I get back home) is the following from top to bottom:

Soft 19 ILD (originally came with extra soft 14-19 ILD but that was too soft)
Medium 24 ILD
Firm 36 ILD

On my living room floor I slept on the following all Dunlop build for 9 months from top to bottom:

Medium Avocado Brand (they say D65)
Firm SOL 46ILD (which is definitely extra firm!)

I hope swapping the base for Dunlop will help with the bounciness of 3x talalay layers. I will report back afterwards! When I put the Avocado Dunlop in the middle of my current mattress instead of the medium talalay, it definitely felt better…

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Hello ~ I really feel for you and wanted to respond to share my experience. What you’re describing sounds exhausting, especially when sleep is supposed to be your recovery time. That “firm for support vs. soft for pressure relief” conflict is very real, especially with a lighter body weight and existing back issues.
Talalay definitely works for a lot of people, but what you’re describing about the “push back” feeling is something I’ve heard (and felt) too. It can feel great at first, then over several hours it’s like your body starts resisting it instead of relaxing into it—especially if your spine is sensitive.
One thing I’ll throw out there, just based on my own experience, is that sometimes it’s not only the mattress layers themselves—it can also be how your body is interacting with gravity over the course of the night. I went down a very similar path trying to fine-tune materials, softness, support, all of that… and was still waking up after a few hours.
What ended up making a surprising difference for me was experimenting with a very slight incline (not a wedge pillow—those actually made things worse for me—but a gentle, full-body tilt). It didn’t feel dramatic, but it changed how my body settled into the mattress. I noticed less of that “push back” sensation and more of a neutral, supported feel through the night. It actually felt like floating because it removes gravity, took pressure off my joints, kept my spine aligned and also helped my breathing.
I came across the concept while researching online and found a site that explained the history and benefits called Incline Sleep. It felt more like my body could actually rest instead of constantly adjusting. I purchased the 6" wedge that is placed under your existing mattress to tilt the entire sleeping surface and it has been amazing for me.
Not saying that replaces dialing in your layers—you may still find that a different combo (like mixing in Dunlop or even simplifying to two layers) works better for your body—but if you’re waking up at that same 4-hour mark every night, it might be something worth at least being curious about. However for me it wasn’t about changing my mattress, just adding the wedge was my solution and it was so affordable.
You’re definitely not crazy for struggling with this—sometimes it’s just a matter of finding the combination your body agrees with, and unfortunately that can take some trial and error. Sorry for going on and on, but I know how important good sleep is and I just wanted to share.
Tammy

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Is that wedge soft or firm? I read about some others on Amazon and they said it was too soft and wasn’t firm enough to support their bed

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Thank you so much for this Tammy! Please don’t apologize for your reply- I appreciate every word! Yes I have been contemplating the adjustable frame.. I know the higher end models have the full tilt options. I didn’t know you could accomplish that with a wedge as well! Do you have a link for the one you are using? Thanks again x

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It’s a firm one… Here’s the link Incline Sleep Foam Wedge

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Hi again! Here’s the link for the Incline Sleep Foam Wedge that I got. You can also navigate around that site to gather more information and testimonials about the tilted surface concept. Good luck and let me know if you have any other questions ~ Tammy

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Thanks again Tammy! I am really trying to stay away from foams other than latex but that is so tempting! I wonder if they make a latex version? I would be surprised if they didn’t…

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All latex would be probably $600 but no i didn’t have any luck finding anything other than the standard foam wedge. The one she’s recommending does have the natural cover though.

If you can’t do that then maybe it’s possible to put shims under the legs of the frame. I’m just figuring out how I’m gonna do that though cause there are legs in the center of course well suddenly the force applied to them isn’t completely vertical and I’m not sure how the frame would hold up.

Id definitely not like to spend a couple more hundred dollars to do this but at the same time i believe it could be very beneficial.

This is also why i was looking at adjustable frames with screw down legs for height adjustment. You could get the perfect height on each leg and still have the massage feature and zero gravity

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Do you have an all latex mattress? Which adjustable bases have you been looking at? I know there is a Sleep Science brand offered at Costco, and I almost bought the Rize silver model several months ago. Costco has an unbeatable return policy which is tempting since you really don’t have anything to lose if it doesn’t work out. I’m just concerned about the fact that the base is built of metal bars with fabric on top.. right now I sleep on a completely flat foundation with a Savvy rest coconut coir bed rug over it for airflow. Any micro dips or putting directly on slats (even less than 3" apart) KILLS my back. I am nervous similar issues would arise with the adjustable base foundation, but I don’t know since I’ve never had one!

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The adjustable base i was seeing is $400 on Amazon has good reviews too

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What kind of mattress would you be using it on?

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Ive got a glacier apex and a diy bed built with firm quadcoils, miniquad and a layer of memory/latex hybrid foam

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I’m your same height but about 40lbs heavier and still have too much pushback from all forms of latex.

I still am sold on latex as the base layers though because it will last a long time and can rotate the top comfort layer as needed.

I’m on a Nest Finch which is talalay 6” firm 3” medium 3” soft. On top of that I have a Molecule Copperwell Memory Foam Zoned Topper.

I am also going to try a more standard fiberfill topper and see how that goes. I don’t know if I need all this zoning and I don’t like the sinking feeling of memory foam. It feels great at first but always sinks during the night. Might just need a lighter thinner cushion over the latex.

I have stopped using a pillow entirely. I finally realized at 5’5” just don’t have the neck height. Most pillows are too thick and force your neck down. And then the too soft down pillows still bunch in odd places. The Molecule topper is soft enough that it mostly fills in under my neck so there’s not really room for a pillow anyway.

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Try the memory foam under the latex for a night, you might not like it but it also might help alot with the pushback you get from latex. Also the latex will prevent body heat from getting to the memory foam which makes it softer.

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