ebay latex and covers for homemade mattress

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
1

for anyone thinking of ordering laxtex toppers off of ebay i found have some info for you, i ordered from a two sellers the first

http://www.ebay.com/itm/350845491035?var=620150451962&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

i thought this was a good deal since it came from latexco and 264$ shipped for a 3" topper sounded good, especially with a 30 day return policy. i was told this was blended talalay from latexco, i got it in the firm, 34-40 ILD put it on top of my 6" 36 ILD 1.8LB polyfoam and topped it with the BB 2" 5.0 LB memory foam topper. boy it is super firm. too firm for my liking. My shoulders dont sink enough and my back hurts( primarily stomach sleeper). After digging a litlte deeper and calling Latexco, this is actually blended Dunlop called Ecoline. i cant believe how little these people selling latex actually know about their products. it going back, i already got the RMA.

the second piece i got was a 1" 16-18 ILD topper from a seller hahtauctions
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200891704357?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
in the description its labeled as dunlop, after a call with the owner it is actually puralux from latexco. another wrong labeled product, but i knew from research on here that puralux was good product so i ordered it. it arrived today and looks good, i put it on the top of my homeade mattress i mentioned above.

Funny thing is both these sellers drop ship from Latexco East in GA.

Now anyone looking for a cheap bamboo and wool cover i ordered one of those as well:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-ALL-WAY-ZIPPER-BAMBOO-WOOL-QUILTED-COVER-12-LATEX-MEMORY-FOAM-MATTRESS-/111018369126?pt=US_Mattress_Pads_and_Feather_Beds&var=&hash=item5f7f8c67c5

this is actually pretty nice for the price, it only is about 1/2" thick so not too much quilting in the top which was what i was looking for, the zipper seems a little fragile but i wont zipper it until i am happy with my mattress. also this seller has some pretty nice made in the USA covers made from bamboo/wool or organic cotton.

i have to pack up the synthetic dunlop topper from the first seller and ship it back in the next few days. I have 2 options to replace it. i know i need a little softer so i can either go with the same seller and get the same latex in a 28-33 ILD synthetic Dunlop or i emailed chuck from BB and since i returned my UD mattress and lost some money on the shipping he was willing to give me talalaly in 32 ILD at the same price, i think i am going to go this route. but i haven’t made up my mind, i thought i would come here and try to get some insight from Pheonix.

i figured if anyone was in the same boat i was and thinking about ordering from ebay i would pass this info along here so they don’t have to be the guinea pig like i was.

i will reiterate what pheonix had said, because i now see this, MAKING YOUR OWN MATTRESS IS HARD. i thought what i designed would be perfect, guess what some of 3" layer of synthetic dunlop is going back. i think i will replace it with a 2" layer instead in 32ILD Talaly or 28-33 ILD Synthetic Dunlop, seeing as i am a stomach sleeper and i keep seeing that thinner comfort layers are better. so this is my mattress in the cover i listed above:

6" 36 ILD 1.8LB polyfoam
3" firm, 34-40 ILD synthetic dunlop
BB 2" 5.0 LB memory foam topper
1" 16-18 ILD Puralux

2

The cheapest/most reliable places I’ve found to order single Talalay layers from are:

Mattress 24/7 $440
Mattresses.net $380-$450
Brooklyn Bedding $400

Technically out of all of those it seems Brooklyn Bedding has the most options making it the best deal all around. Mattress 24/7 WAS cheaper than BB but they’ve recently raised their prices.

Note that building your own bed from BB is cheaper than buying their Total Latex mattress.

$1900 for the Total Latex
or
3 x $400 = $1200 for 3 layers and then $200-$300 for a cover (so $1500 max).

The difference is the Total Latex comes with a 120 day exchange period where the single layers only have 30 days (if that, but I think they do offer 30 days). So you can build your own mattress cheaper at the expense of the warranty.

Best of luck! :slight_smile:

3

Hi suffolk,

As you mention … I would make sure that you make some careful “value” comparisons as far as the type and blend of latex you purchase but for those that are looking for mostly synthetic Dunlop (which is still a good quality material) the materials you purchased can be good value.

This would likely be what Latexco calls their Puralux which is a blended Dunlop that uses a continuous pour method of production that is poured in layers up to 3". ILD comparisons between different types of latex and different manufacturers can be “tricky” at best because not all of them use the same methods to measure ILD and ILD is only one of several factors involved in the softness or firmness of a mattress.

I would also be careful with covers because covers at this price are certainly not the equivalent of more costly covers which use higher quality materials. their listing mentions “Bamboo fabric quilted with mixed PU Fiber and wool.” which at this price I would assume meant mostly polyester fibers in the quilting.

[quote]the second piece i got was a 1" 16-18 ILD topper from a seller hahtauctions
www.ebay.com/itm/200891704357?ssPageName...id=p3984.m1423.l2649
in the description its labeled as dunlop, after a call with the owner it is actually puralux from latexco. another wrong labeled product, but i knew from research on here that puralux was good product so i ordered it. it arrived today and looks good, i put it on the top of my homeade mattress i mentioned above.[/quote]

This is actually labeled correctly because Puralux is blended Dunlop made with a continuous pour process.

Hahtauctions is the same as https://sleeponlatex.com/ . I have talked with Karl here and he is knowledgeable and committed to providing accurate information to his customers.

When you are dealing with eBay sellers you will find that there is a wide range of levels of “accuracy” in the listings and this is part of the “risk” of this kind of purchase.

Some of the continuous pour Dunlop from both Latexco and Mountaintop foam has a very nice “feel” even though it’s not the same as molded Dunlop or Talalay. It’s somewhat in between the two.

The choice between types of latex is really a matter of personal preference so there really isn’t any insight I can provide except to use the materials that you prefer. There is no better or worse here.

As far as specific layering … I normally don’t provide “advice” about layering and leave that to discussions between customers and retailers because there are too many variables and complexities involved to make “theory at a distance” an effective way to make good choices but I don’t mind providing a few general comments or insights but I would need much more specific information and feedback.

Just to repeat … your mattress has the following layers from top to bottom …

1" 16 - 18 ILD Puralux
2" 5 lb memory foam
3" blended Dunlop 34 - 40 ILD
6" 1.8 lb polyfoam 36 ILD
Bamboo cover (or perhaps a bamboo polyester blend) with what is probably mostly polyester fiber in the quilting.

If this is right (and the specs are accurate) it’s not surprising that it would be very firm because 5 lb memory foam is usually firmer and more temperature sensitive than lower density memory foam and you also have an inch of latex and a polyester quilted cover on top of it which would reduce the heat reaching the memory foam which allows it to soften. 5 lb memory foam would be firmer than lower density in this configuration. You also have quite firm 34 - 40 Dunlop latex underneath this and you may also be “going through” the top layers and feeling the firmness of this layer below it. 1" of soft latex would not be enough to modify the firmness of the rest of the materials. This may also be connected to the thickness of the layers that you need above any firm layers and your body type

Part of the challenge again is that ILD’s are not consistent between materials so that it’s often difficult to compare them and there are other factors involved in the firmness and softness of a mattress (such as compression modulus, layer thickness, and point elasticity and in thecase of memory foam temperature sensitivity and speed of response).

To make any meaningful comments though I would need more information about your height, weight, weight distribution/body type and the specific variations of your sleeping positions along with the types of mattresses you are used to sleeping on and more about your personal preferences.

I would also need to know how long you have slept on the configuration you have been trying and specifics about the actual symptoms you are experiencing in pressure relief and alignment terms. “Too firm” for example is an assessment of your mattress not a description of your actual sleeping symptoms and has little meaning because there are different types of firmness and softness (see post #15 here) and softness/firmness itself is subjective and relative for each person.

I should also mention that almost all stomach sleepers spend much less time on their stomachs than they realize so any other sleeping positions you may have would also be helpful.

Can you provide more details about what are the actual symptoms you are experiencing and where on your body and in which sleeping position are you experiencing them?

Phoenix

4

the cover is actually 40% BAMBOO COTTON + 60% POLYESTER + PU FIBER & WOOL.

the 3" Latex i got is ecoline from latexco, which is a cheaper version of puralux a 50/50 blend of synthetic dunlop, that came directly from the sales rep at latexco. he said it is still a good product and should last close to 10 years. he also said he doesn’t understand why anyone gets the firm, it is really hard.

my stats are 5-10, 190 primarily stomach sleeper with wide shoulders, 36" waist.

prior mattresses Ultimate Dreams 10" Mattress. comfort level 6 which is:
1.5"poly foam
3" 28 ILD Talalay
5.5" 1.5LB 32 ILD Poly foam
Mattress was delivered 7/12/2013

i also flipped the mattress and tried the memory foam on top of the hard side, still had a little back pain but not as bad. went back, too soft.

Just for a little background this replaced a 4.5 year old Sarah Peyton Convection Cooled 14-inch memory foam mattress which consisted of the following:
 3-inch, 4-pound convection cooled memory foam top layer
 3-inch core foam support structure with air channels
 8-inch high-density supportive base foam

so now i have this new configuration
1" 16 - 18 ILD Purlux
2" 5 lb memory foam
3" blended Dunlop 34 - 40 ILD
6" 1.8 lb polyfoam 36 ILD

i should also note that i just got the 1" soft puralux and mattress cover today so tonight will be the first night sleeping on it.

i actually got the polyfoam first and already had the 2" BB 5.0LB memory foam from my prior purchase, i slept on the poly and memoryfoam for 3 days and had slight back doscomfprt in the morning.
then the 3" blended dunlop came monday, i put this on and slep on it for 3 nights and the bed felt like a rock woth the poly, dunlop and memory foam. i had significantly more back discomfort. so i only slept on this for 3 nights.

then today i assembled the rest of the mattress as listed above. i am returning the firm dunlop in a few days as i already received the email with the return authorization.

i think i need a little softer so i can either go with the same seller and get the same latex in a 28-33 ILD synthetic blended Dunlop or i emailed chuck from BB and since i returned my UD mattress and lost some money on the shipping he was willing to give me talalaly in 32 ILD at the SAME PRICE as the blended dunlop in the respective thicknesses, i think i am going to go this route. but i haven’t made up my mind, i thought i would come here and try to get some insight .

i am going to sleep on the mattress for another three nights and see how it feels now that it is all assembled. So far i am into the mattress for around 650$ with all the components. and with the return of the layer and buying a new one should be a wash, if i go to a 2" layer i will actually recoup around 80$. i was trying to see what i could build and not go over 800-900$. It is time consuming and frustrating at the same time. i figured what the hell since i already bought a mattress online and had to return it. i felt like i was guessing at what the mattress felt like so why shouldn’t i guess at trying to make my own. but it is hard.

Now my next decision is 2" or 3" and talalay or blended dunlop.
thanks

5

Hi suffolk,

Your wide shoulders won’t come into play if you are primarily a stomach sleeper and don’t spend time on your side and “theory” says that stomach sleepers need “just enough” softness and thickness on top of a firmer support layer to relieve any pressure so that there is less risk for alignment which is the biggest risk for stomach sleeping.

This would point to a 2" 5 lb memory foam layer with the thin latex topper being suitable for you … at least in theory. Even just the 2" memory foam topper on the polyfoam would work for many stomach sleepers. If you go with thicker comfort layers or toppers then there is a much bigger risk of the pelvis area sagging into the mattress whie the upper body is being “held up” which creates a swayback sleeping position and lower back issues which is the main risk of stomach sleeping. I’m assuming your back pain is in the lower back?

The Sarah Peyton would probably have been too thick/soft in the comfort layers as well so it would be interesting to know your experience with this as well because “theory” doesn’t always work in “real life”.

I can see the Ultimate Dreams being on the thick/soft side too.

This means that you may do well to dump the 3" blended Dunlop completely and just use the 2" of memory foam and the 1’ Puralux on top of the polyfoam.

I would also check the support system under the mattress to make sure there is no sagging in the middle especially and also make sure you are using a thin pillow or no pillow at all for stomach sleeping because a pillow that is too thick can also cause back issues with stomach sleeping (usually neck or upper back but possible lower back as well).

If you use a flat pillow under your lower abdomen/pelvis area and this helps then it would also be confirmation that your pelvis is sinking in too far relative to the rest of your body.

Let me know what happens with the new cover and the 1’ puralux to see if that helps. It may be worth trying just the extra 1" of latex without the cover at all as well to help the foam layers conform better as well.

Phoenix

6

well i slept pretty good last night on the complete mattress in the cover. probably the best yet. very little pain. the shoulder pain was gone, my arms didn’t get the pins and needles. ( I sleep with my arm under my head).

i just don’t understand why my back was in more pain after i added the really stiff synthetic dunlop? (6 “polyfoam, 3 " firm 34-40 ILD latex, 2” memory foam, no mattress cover/protector). the polyfoam has an ILD of 35 and was 6 " and the latex was ILD 34-40 and only 3".

i did try just the polyfoam and the memory foam for 3 nights since the polyfoam arived first and i already had the memory foam. this had slight discomfort in my lower back.

for a pillow i have a shredded latex that i got from BB which is pretty thin. before that i had a soft/thin hotel collection down pillow.

with the sarah peyton mattress i slept pretty good for almost 2 years, when it was on the floor. as soon as i put it on a cheap box spring and cheap metal frame i knew it was over. it was sagging too much.

i then received the steel foundation i currently have which is the Malouf that you have listed in your foundation thread. with that and the sarah peyton mattress there was mild lower back pain.

so i would eliminate the possibility of the problem being the foundation, it is less than 2 months old and definitely not sagging.

i will only be sleeping on the complete mattress for 2 more nights and then i leave for vacation for a week. then when i come back i have to pack up the 3" 34-40 ILD synthetic dunlop and send it back.

so you think eliminating the latex would be the best idea? not switching to a 2" latex layer?

i am still puzzled at the fact my back hurt more after i added the firm latex.

thanks for helping

7

Hi suffolk,

The softness and performance of the sleeping surface is a combination of many factors and IFD with polyfoam is firmer than the same ILD with latex (ILD/IFD is often tested in different ways with each material).

In addition to this… layer thickness, compression modulus, ILD/IFD, and point elasticity (along with temperature response and response time in the case of memory foam) all contribute to the “softness” of the sleeping surface so ILD alone can be very misleading … especially when you are comparing different materials and different designs. As just one example … a 6" layer of a certain material in a certain design over a firm base layer will be softer than a 3" layer of the same material even though the material and the ILD is the same.

By reducing the thickness of the comfort layers you will be closer to the support layer which will “stop” your pelvis from sinking in too far which is the biggest risk for stomach sleepers. “Just enough” softness and thickness to relieve pressure in comfort layers and “enough” firmness in the support layers underneath it to stop the heavier parts of the body from sinking down too far is one of the keys to a successful design.

Phoenix

8

so after sleeping on the:
1" 16 - 18 ILD Purlux
2" 5 lb memory foam
3" blended Dunlop 34 - 40 ILD
6" 1.8 lb polyfoam 36 ILD

for 2 more nights i developed the lower back pain again. yesterday i packed up the 3" blended Dunlop 34 - 40 ILD and will mail it back tomorrow. so i does seem that i had too much thickness in the comfort layers.
Last night i slept on :

1" 16 - 18 ILD Purlux
2" 5 lb memory foam
6" 1.8 lb polyfoam 36 ILD

and i woke up with a good back today, i want to give it a few days to see how i feel after i adjust a little. the only thing is i had some shoulder pain. i would actually like if the top had a little more spring to it. i am thinking since the memoryfoam is under the latex it is causing it to feel rather firm and ungiving. i was thinking of getting rid of the 2" 5LB memory foam and replacing it with 2" of latex in 32 or maybe even 36 ILD so my mattress would be:

1" 16 - 18 ILD Purlux
2" 32 or 36 ILD latex
6" 1.8 lb polyfoam 36 ILD

i was wondering your opinion on whether this would give it a little more springy feel yet provide enough support. i know this is going to be a long process and a lot of trial and error.
thanks for all the help.

9

Hi suffolk,

Memory foam has a very low resilience and is slow response and because the majority of your comfort layers are memory foam you wouold have very little resilience or “spring”. Memory foam also takes time to “give” under pressure and heat so it can feel firm with fast movement but much softer if the movement is slower of if you are in a particular position for longer. it’s like water or honey which are both very “firm” if you slap it but much softer if you press into it slowly. In other words it compresses more slowly and also returns more slowly than higher resilience (more springy) foams like polyfoam or latex. The choice of course is a matter of personal preference. Having the latex over the memory foam will also slow down the response of the memory foam and the amount of heat that reaches it. This is especially true of 5 lb memory foams and most 4 lb memory foams are faster responding and a little less temperature sensitive.

I’m not sure what type of mattress protector you are using but some thicker protectors or mattress pads can also interfere with the compression of the foam underneath them.

Replacing the memory foam with latex would give you more resilient (springy) comfort layers but you would also be going back somewhat to an more experimental mode to find out what thickness and firmness level works best for you. With your stomach sleeping I would lean towards thinner/firmer rather than thicker/softer.

Your comments about shoulder pain indicate that you may be spending some time on your side because shoulder pain (from pressure points anyway) is not typical for a stomach sleeper and it could also indicate a pillow issue if you don’t sleep on your side and depending on where you are feeling the pain.

Phoenix

10

right now i am not using a mattress protector or pad, just the mattress case i got off ebay which can’t be more than a half inch. i know i would be going backwards a bit i but i really feel i would like latex a little better. i know that from the past experience with the dreamfoam mattress which was 28 ILD and 3" in the comfort layer i am going to shoot for 2". since the 28 ILD was a little soft i was thinking to go with 32 ILD. since this will be thinner than the Dreamfoam comfort layer i hope it will be ok. i do have the option of going with either blended talalay from BB in 32 ILD or blended dunlop in 28-33 ILD from the same company i purchased the 34-40 ILD 3" topper thats going back tomorrow. i just want a little springy feeling. i have not spent too much money so far so i am ok with a little experimenting. with returning the 3" latex topper i am only in it for 460$ and if i decide to sell the memory foam im sure i could recoup 50$. i set my limit at 1000$ to play and the 2" latex topper is only going to set me back 170$(a gift from chuck after taking a loss on the ultimate dreams mattress). what do you think about my ideas of the 2" latex in 32 or 36 ILD and what are your thoughts on the blended talalay vs blended dunlop.
at least this time ifi had to return a 2" topper it will be easier to wrap up. it was a real pain to roll up the 3" queen firm topper to get it to fit 60" x 16" so USPS would take it.
thanks for everything.

11

Hi suffolk,

I would also keep in mind that the dreamfoam also has 1.5" of quilting foam (compressed with the quilting) so this would make the latex thicker and softer than the ILD and thickness of the latex only would otherwise indicate so your higher ILD and/or thinner layer makes sense to me but both of them together (firmer and thinner) may be firmer than you anticipate.

The choice between Talalay and Dunlop is of course a preference but the Dunlop will tend to be firmer in an equivalent ILD and the Talalay will also be a little more “springy”.

I’m looking forward to your next report to see how the next step works out for you.

Phoenix

12

i was actually thinking about this last night, that maybe i should try 2" 28 ILD because i will be going with a thinner layer and i will not have the 1.5" of polyfoam in the quilting. i will though have 1" of the 16-18 ILD puralux on top.