Factory Direct Mattresses in the Toronto, ON and GTA area.

Hi Phoenix,

You probably remember me from my earlier posts on the ‘memory foam mattress topper made me sick’. Long story short, I threw out the topper, was refunded by the company, and I am now sleeping on the living room couch (and I am not talking a sofa bed…I am talking literally, the couch). It’s downright terrible, however, not as terrible as sleeping on the godawful Sealy mattress I had bought, to replace another mattress I’d bought prior to that, prior to doing a comfort exchange, all through Sleep Country…how I hate the mere sight of their stores. (edit: btw, when I was at sleep country on one of my last trips, I actually experienced seeing and hearing the sales people, of which there were about 4 because it was a busy weekend, they literally were fighting over customers: “I was speaking to that couple first so I’m closing that sale” - that kind of deal, and then they’d quickly switch back to being fake-nice and sales-y to the people in the store. Yuck.)

Allow me to elaborate - my dissatisfaction with the Sealy stems from the fact that initially, I had owned a Sealy, which I loved, until I moved in with my boyfriend and we bought a king size Sealy. Both were soft, plush foam-topped inner springs. However, the king size innerspring Sealy had a defect - it seems as though the mattress’s denser, ‘inner support core’ had been installed vertically, instead of horizontally, and this caused both of us to roll into our own respective little ‘valleys’ with no lower back support. (Compared to sleeping on the couch, this was great, in retrospect.) But at the time, this was a concern. So I called for an inspector, who said he didn’t notice enough ‘sag’ (has to be at least something like 2 inches of visible sag). I told him if I can feel it, can’t he? Well, that drove him to his default reaction of saying he’ll just say that it is making ‘noise’, as he pushed vigorously into to the mattress to fabricate evidence for his white lie which he then submitted for my exchange.

I went back to the store with my boyfriend, not satisfied with my ‘valley’ mattress, and we settled on a king size Simmons innerspring with memory foam top. It was their top of the line, which they said was in a lot of hotels. My boyfriend liked it, and I liked it enough to agree. Two weeks later of sleeping on it, I was waking up with pinched shoulders and pinched hips, and it started to hurt. It seems this memory foam had lost it’s memory, and didn’t exactly spring back into its original shape. So I marched back to Sleep country and said I want to do a comfort exchange, but of course, that option was exhausted since that mattress had been in exchange of the previous King Sealy. So I thought I had no other choice but to start from scratch…once again at sleep country. How wrong I was to do that. So counting, I’d already bought a King Sealy, and also paid the balance for the upgraded exchange for the Simmons.

Next to defeated, I went back several times and decided to give my boyfriend the Twin XL version of his Simmons, and I would pick the updated version of the Sealy in Twin XL that I had exchanged in the first place (ironic, no?) I tried all the mattresses again, and between another ‘soft’ Simmons and the newer version of the Sealy, I picked the Sealy. EXCEPT this time, I was dealing with apples and oranges, but I didn’t know that until I received the mattress. The sales person had mentioned in the store that the new version of the same Sealy now had no innerspring coils - it was layered foam throughout. He said this increased the durability of the product. I thought that if what I felt in the store was what I would feel at home, that I had made a good choice. Unfortunately for me, this was not the case. The Twin XL Sealy that arrived was HARD AS A ROCK. Nothing compared to the softness of the King size Sealy in the showroom. Talk about a misleading ‘show room feel’!!! I went back and complained, and their only excuse was that the density was increased since it was a smaller cut of foam in the Twin XL versus the King. I call BS on that one. They suggested a foam topper. That’s when I knew I was in a catch 22 situation of the largest kind. So counting, add the two new Twin XL mattresses to my bed budget. That’s close to $8,000 CAD. I shudder to think about this. I am not a wealthy person by any means! I take public transit to work for goodness sakes. (edit: I also learned that Sleep Country was the only retailer who manufactured the Sealy with all-foam interior - other retailers were not, apparently. Not sure why. The foam is possibly cheaper to produce and install, and has less chance of the sagging of innerspring, I am guessing. Although I found it really does not add to the comfort. It’s like saying a brick is now more comfortable than a steel scrubbing pad when you throw some plush foam over it…I feel that the quality of foam they are replacing the springs with is much less responsive to the body, and therefore, much less comfortable, and clearly, the outcome of the ‘feel’ cannot be predicted in their manufacturing process from the smaller to the larger sizes, and varies GREATLY from small to large).

Anyways, completely traumatized by this, I thought, well heck, I need to stop throwing money at this mattress situation, because my boyfriend will label me insane. So I bought a foam mattress topper on amazon.com based on a recommendation from a friend. Well, I bought the 3 inch and then the 2 inch. Neither ameliorated the situation. I was waking up stiff, sore, and contorted. After 4 months of that, I decided, this is not working. I tossed these mattress toppers and decided, I’m sleeping on the couch, dammit. So that is where I have been for 5 months now, and I have developed chronic lower back/hip/leg pain as a result. It is present from morning till night. It hurts to sit now as I type. I don’t think it is wise to damage my body for the sake of avoiding another mattress shenanigan, but this is where I am now.

I visited Soma mattresses twice. I thought one of the plusher Green Sleep mattresses were lovely (the one with the dunlop core, and the softer talalay ‘pillow top’), and then I tried the Acadia 4.0 from Obasan…and I nearly barfed when I saw the price for a King, lol. So here I am, knowing full well that I can only sleep on the best of the best, the softest of the softest latex foam mattresses. Add to the fact that I have been diagnosed with hyperthyroidism / Grave’s disease (doctor is still hoping that this is a glitch from taking too many ill-prescribed iodine supplements and that my levels will go back to normal) which is a type of autoimmune reaction, meaning I am probably sensitive to chemicals and bad stuff in mattresses at this point.

I briefly considered going to Essentia because I know that their mattresses are super comfortable, but then I re-read all your mattress forum threads on this company and I quickly remembered why I didn’t check them out the first time. I hate being ‘taken’ for my money by marketing, so I would hesitate to consider them, especially when I want a product that will not harm my spine/hips, AND will not harm my autoimmune system.

@Phoenix - I haven’t visited Dormio yet, and I am wondering, could you suggest any mattresses from Dormio that are the equivalent or similar to the Acadia 4.0 by Obasan? I know that Obasan is high quality organic latex foam. And the Acadia 4.0 seemed, if I remember correctly, that I would find it comfortable and supportive, given my side-sleeping, and my current hip/lower back chronic pain issues from the couch sleeping.

I think I will have to bite the bullet on the price, once again, but I suspect that i will be happier with my purchase, health wise and comfort wise if I choose correctly between Dormio or Soma (Obasan / Green Sleep).

Thanks for reading.

Hi 1whithorse1,

I remember … and you’ve certainly had your share of difficult experiences.

You may have read this already but just in case Post #2 here and the more detailed posts and information it links to have more information about safe, natural, organic, “chemical free”, and “green” mattresses and mattress materials that can help you sort through some of the marketing information and terminology that you will encounter in the industry and can help you differentiate between them and answer “how safe is safe enough for me” so you can decide on the types of materials you are most comfortable with having in your mattress. These types of issues are complex and are generally specific to each person and their individual sensitivities, circumstances, criteria, and lifestyle choices. Latex can certainly be a good choice for people that are very sensitive.

I would also make sure that you’ve read the mattress shopping tutorial here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choices … and most importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones that you purchased.

Two of the more important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to buy a suitable mattress that is the best “match” for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for that are involved in each of them and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability, durability, and value.

There is more about the different ways that one mattress can “match” or “approximate” another one in post #9 here but unless the type and blend of latex and all the layer thicknesses and firmness levels are the same in both mattresses and they both have a very similar cover then the only reliable way to know how one mattress would compare to another one would be based on your own side by side testing (with either no or very little time in between because our memories for something as subjective as firmness or the “feel” of a mattress isn’t very long lasting). Even smaller differences between two mattresses can make a surprisingly big difference for some people and when you have two mattresses that use different materials or designs (or the types and blends of latex are different) it’s really not possible to know how they will compare for you unless you compare them in person.

I don’t know the detailed specifics of the mattresses that Dormio carries but if you know all the specs of the Acadia 4.0 that you tested (including the ILD of the layers and zones that you tested) then Dormio would be your best source of guidance about which of their mattresses would be the closest approximation based on specs because they will be much more familiar with their mattresses than I am.

I would also be very cautious though about using another mattress as your “target” because it may not be the best possible match for you in the first place (and you could end up excluding another mattress that may be different but could be a better choice in terms of PPP) and because human memory for softness, firmness, and “feel” is very unreliable and a mattress that may feel similar to what you “remember” another mattress feels like may end up being very different. I would rate every mattress you consider against a common set of criteria (rather than against another mattress) using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post and based on which one is the best “match” for you in terms of PPP and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

My new mattress, the Landon from Dormio, was delivered three weeks ago. It has 3" of medium, 3" of soft and 2" of extra soft latex, topped by 1" of wool. It is quite pleasing in several ways. It supports me well so I feel less stiff in the morning. It smells nice! No weird odors, no unpleasant VOCs. It does have an odor, but it is natural. It has a very good kushy feel to it. I like the way the latex has a “lively” sort of surface. I have only one complaint, which I will call Dormio about today. After lying down a while I develop a mild pressure point on my hips and bum. I sleep on my sides and back. I get the pressure point more often when I sleep on my back. This puzzles me, since the mattress seems so soft to the touch. Could it be that it is too soft and my bum is sinking too far? I don’t know, but hopefully we can make some adjustments. Any suggestions or thoughts?

Hi sangen,

Unfortunately I can’t feel what you feel or see you sleeping on the mattress and I don’t have enough information or reference points to make any specific suggestions but post #2 here has more information about the most common symptoms that people may experience on a mattress and some of the more likely reasons for them that may help you identify the most likely cause of the pain you are experiencing and whether it may be coming from a mattress that is too soft (which would generally indicate an alignment issue) or a mattress that is too firm (which generally indicates a pressure issue but can also cause some alignment issues as well).

While I’m not familiar with your mattress … based on the description it appears to be in a fairly soft range which may “point to” a mattress that is too soft for you which in turn would point to an alignment issue in either your spine or joints that could be causing your pain.

Once you have familiarized yourself with the possible cause or causes of your pain … your best source of guidance about any changes that may be worth considering or that are available to you would be a more detailed conversation with Dormio who are very knowledgeable and will know more about their mattresses and the options they have available to fine tune the support or comfort of the mattress than anyone else and they also have the benefit of their experience and feedback from many other customers that have purchased the same mattress that may have had similar issues to you that they can draw from as well to make some suggestions that may be helpful.

Phoenix

Hello all,

So I thought I’d post here given all the expert advice. It’s quite amazing really. For the first in my life in my mid 30 I’m trying to locate and purchase the right bed for me. This is because I just learned that I have multiple herniations and/or bulges in my spine, lumbar, thoracic and cervical. I’ve never had anything but lo grade futons and coil mattresses. But this past summer I slept on a non-coil, organic mattress that cost at least two to three times any mattress I’ve ever purchased. It was a sublet and I’m trying to locate the precise mattress, to try it again and see how much it costs. I believe it was an Ottawa based company, and I believe it was Obasan. The other day I went to Sleep Country in Etobicoke and tried this bed: http://www.sleepcountry.ca/products/tabid/131/products/458/mattresses/natura-naturalatex-circadian/language/en-us/default.aspx. It was excellent too. I’m heavier and taller, larger basically, and am looking for a firm bed. Apparently they have two, with one having a cushion top and being softer, not the one I tried. I need it quite firm. I weigh almost 200 lbs, and am almost 6 ft. The deal I got from the Sleep Country salesman was down a few hundred to around $1500 or 1600, and with a box and frame and taxes in for just over $2000. I really don’t know how the long term life of this bed would be, but it’s significantly more than I’m used to spending on a bed. I just want something good that would last, and I don’t mind paying what’s needed, if I can manage to find it. I have no idea about the Obasan beds and how much they’d cost. I’m thinking of trying out a few more places.

It goes without saying that I’d be grateful for any and all advice. I put a refundable hold on the Natura bed for that price for 3 weeks, and I plan to check out some more in the next few days.

Thank you in advance,
David

Hi DHC,

I’m assuming that you’ve read the mattress shopping tutorial here (which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice) but two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for when you sleep on it in “real life” and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability and PPP (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists (based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you).

Outside of PPP … the most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can’t “feel” and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label (or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new) so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the materials and components to the quality/durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would affect the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

If you can find out and list the specifications of the mattress on the forum I’d certainly be happy to make some comments about the quality and durability of the materials in the mattress and the mattress “as a whole”.

The Natura Circadian is a latex polyfoam hybrid but they don’t specify the type and blend of the latex or the thickness of the latex layers or the thickness and density of the polyfoam support core in the mattress description. There is also more about the pros and cons of a latex/polyfoam hybrid vs an all latex mattress in post #2 here. Natura in general uses good quality materials in their mattresses and in most cases don’t have any lower quality materials or weak links in their design but once you find out about the specifics of the layers I would make some careful value comparisons with other similar mattresses that are available either locally in Toronto or online because they may be in a higher budget range than other similar mattresses.

You’ve probably seen this but the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around the Greater Toronto area (subject to making sure that any mattresses you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines I linked earlier in this reply) are listed in post #1 here (which is the first post in the topic we are posting in).

While it’s not a complete list … some of the better online options I’m aware of that ship across Canada are also listed in post #21 here as well.

Obasan is a brand name for SleepTek (you can see their website here) and they also make some very high quality “all latex” mattresses although they are in a higher budget range than the latex/polyfoam hybrid you are looking at. They also have a dealer list here if you are interested in testing some of their mattresses locally.

Outside of the quality/durability guidelines I linked earlier … there is more detailed information about the many variables that can affect the durability and useful life of a mattress relative to different people in post #4 here.

I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding … and of course any other comments or questions you may have along the way.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

Thank you so much for taking the time to write and for all this helpful information. I hadn’t read your tutorial, being new here and only seeing this thread to which I responded. Basically, we just moved back to Toronto, so busy with the move, family, new job, etc., and so I have little time for much, including sleep. But I need a good bed given my health issues. I did manage to get another $100 off the Natura mattress, down to something like $1450. I’m also trying to find out the specifics of the Natura Circadian Sleep Country is selling, and will post that as soon as I have it. I’ve starting reading through the tutorial. With everything going on, absorbing new information or even finding to read outside of work is proving difficult, but I’ll make the time. Anyway, as soon as I know more about the Natura specs, I’ll post that. I also found out that the bed I slept on in the summer at the sublet location (for 3 months) that was quite good was specifically this http://sleeptek.ca/products/classic-2000. But the price I was quoted by an organic store in Toronto was quite a bit higher than the Natura one, the latter being about $1950 everything in (mattress, base, frame and taxes) and the Classic 2000 being $3000 for the foundation and mattress. Not sure what you think of those two aside by side, but I’ll post the specs asap. The $1k difference is substantial though.

I should add that I’m a side sleeper searching for a firm bed, which is apparently strange? I used to sleep on my side toward my stomach more so really, but the herniations require that I sleep in a fetal position basically. I’m been told all this is relevant for purchasing a mattress, though you would know this better.

Hi DHC,

When you are comparing mattresses I would make mattress only to mattress only comparisons so that any difference in the price of the foundation doesn’t affect your comparisons because you can use any suitable foundation under a mattress.

The Classic 200o is also an all latex mattress and uses more costly materials than a latex/polyfoam hybrid that only uses latex in the comfort layers (latex is much more costly than polyfoam). It also uses certified organic latex which is also more costly than many other types and blends of latex. There is more about latex/polyfoam hybrid mattresses vs all latex mattresses in post #2 here and there is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here.

The first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or if you can’t test a mattress in person then your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

Phoenix

Thanks again, Phoenix. Everything you say makes sense, and I’ve been reading the tutorial and all sorts of other things to which it and you have linked for the past hour and I’m learning quite a lot. I’m still on it now and will read more just now, including about the differences between the all latex vs latex and foam. But I did want to quickly post the specs for the Sleep Country Natura mattress, since I received them today. Here we go:

From bottom to top:

6" plant based foam core – this is regular foam mixed with a % of plant based materials which is soy. The soy is approx. 12-15% of the core.

2" talalay latex – this is a medium firm latex – the latex is blended so it does contain both natural and synthetic materials

Wool – the wool is 100% wool, it is not blended with any other materials

Cover – it is a cotton/polyester blend cover with 1" of quilting foam in the cover (same foam as listed above in the core, the plant based)

In total the mattress would be around 9.5 inches thick.

Hi DHC,

[quote]From bottom to top:

6" plant based foam core – this is regular foam mixed with a % of plant based materials which is soy. The soy is approx. 12-15% of the core.

2" talalay latex – this is a medium firm latex – the latex is blended so it does contain both natural and synthetic materials

Wool – the wool is 100% wool, it is not blended with any other materials

Cover – it is a cotton/polyester blend cover with 1" of quilting foam in the cover (same foam as listed above in the core, the plant based)[/quote]

The specs you listed are missing the density of the polyfoam in the base layer which I would want to know (I would make sure that it was at least 1.8 lb density as long as you aren’t in an unusually high weight range in which case I would look for 2 lb density polyfoam or higher). The Talalay latex and the wool are both high quality materials that wouldn’t be a weak link in the mattress and the 1" of quilting foam is also inside the guidelines that I would normally suggest which is “no more than about an inch or so” of lower quality or unknown layers so you wouldn’t need to find out the density of the quilting foam.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks again. I will get those details. It seems this mattress, though very comfortable and firm when I slept on it, is mostly foam. The Classic 2000 from Sleeptek was 6" latex in the core. From reading the post you linked to, where you speak of the merits of the materials, it seems that foam is a waste, esp if you’re heavier, as that fellow was, and as I am, between 190-200. Would this Natura bed even last/hold/support me? It’s entire core is foam, whereas the Classic 2000, for example, is latex. Is my only option, adding another $1000 to the $1500 for the Natura mattress, to get the Classic 2000 or something else?

Thanks,
Dave

Hi DHCC,

Both mattresses are made from foam materials (which includes latex foam, memory foam, and polyfoam) but of course most types and densities of polyfoam are a lower cost material than most types and densities of memory foam or most types and blends of latex. I certainly wouldn’t call polyfoam a waste though since you couldn’t sleep on just a comfort layer by itself and the polyfoam support core provides the deep support that is needed under the softer latex comfort layers. There is more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.

There are many people that can’t afford an all latex mattress that is both thick enough and has the combination of layering that will provide them with suitable comfort and support and for these people a latex/polyfoam hybrid can provide many of the benefits of sleeping on latex at a much lower cost (although there are many latex/polyfoam hybrids that aren’t particularly good “value” that can sometimes approach the cost of an all latex mattress). There are even some people who may prefer a polyfoam/latex hybrid over an all latex mattress and there are also some all polyfoam mattresses that use high quality versions of polyfoam that many people sleep very well on and would make very durable choices as well.

Polyfoam comes in a very wide range of firmness levels and different densities that range from low quality/density versions which are “junk” that will soften and break down very quickly to very high quality/density versions which are very durable and in some cases are comparable to latex in terms of durability … especially in the deeper support layers of a mattress which generally aren’t the weakest link of a mattress.

A latex/polyfoam hybrid that uses at least 1.8 lb density polyfoam would generally be suitable for someone in your weight range and even for those that are in much higher weight ranges a higher density support core in the range of 2 lb density or higher would be a very durable material as well.

The choice between different types of materials and mattresses is generally a preference and a budget choice (see this article) and any type or combination of materials that are durable enough for the weight range of the person sleeping on it and that are a suitable “match” in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) can make a very suitable and very durable choice for a mattress.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

Thank you again for your helpful and quick response. My apologies for the delay, but I contacted Natura and they only got back to me this afternoon. So it’s 1.55 lbs density in the core. That is on the very low end, as noted in the article you sent. I’m about 200 lbs.

The reason I emphasized the superior quality of a latex core is precisely for the reason noted in the article you linked to, namely, the durability. I should emphasize that they knocked another $100 off the price of the Natura mattress, down to below $1500. If you or anyone else has suggestions for queen mattresses in that price range, or, more accurately, up to $2000 taxes in, that are superior, better deals, even with a denser polyfoam core, etc., then I’d love to here them. I am doing some research, but I certainly don’t know much of what’s out there. I almost want to buy the Natura and get it over with (under $2000 everything in, including foundation and frame), but I will do some more research today and tomorrow before making a final decision. If the Natura had a higher density, I’d buy it asap.

Thanks again and I’ll write more when I have more.

Dave

Hi DHC,

While the deeper layers of a mattress aren’t generally the weakest link in a mattress … with only 2" of latex on top of it and with your weight you may be compressing the support core more than someone that was lighter and I would look for a higher density base foam (at least 1.8 lbs).

While a lower density base foam is a reasonable compromise for lower budget mattresses … it would still be a higher risk purchase than a mattress that used a higher density base foam and I wouldn’t be comfortable with 1.55 lb density polyfoam in a mattress in the higher budget range you are looking at.

I don’t keep a record of the individual mattresses that the retailers and manufacturers in the hundreds of forum lists throughout the forum carry on their floor (it would be a bigger job than anyone could keep up with in a constantly changing market) but checking their websites and making some preliminary phone calls to the retailers/manufacturers that are on the forum list that are in reasonable driving distance is always a good idea before you visit any store anyway. This will tell you which of them carry mattresses that would meet your specific criteria, are transparent about the quality and durability of the materials in their mattresses (see this article), and that carry the type of mattresses that you are interested in testing in the budget range you are comfortable with. Once you have checked their websites and/or talked with the ones that interest you then you will be in a much better position to decide on the ones that you are most interested in visiting based on the results of your preliminary research and conversations.

There is also more about the 3 most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase to fine tune the mattress or the exchange/return options that are available to you).

There isn’t a “formula” that can be used to assess or “calculate” value because there are so many different variables and criteria involved that are more or less important to different people that may be very different from someone else and because the “value” of a mattress purchase is always relative to the other finalists you are considering or to the other mattresses that are available to you in the area or online but in general terms I would agree with you that there are probably better quality/value mattresses available in the Toronto list.

If you are comfortable with an online purchase then some of the options that are listed in post #21 here may also be worth considering.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks again. So I think I have to abandon the idea of purchasing the Natura Sleep Country mattress I described, even though at around $1450, it was the cheapest I could find that I still thought was quite comfortable when I slept on it, but perhaps that’s not saying much given Sleep Country’s selection. I am doing more research and work now, and today I looked through your list and called Dormio for starters. I had a nice long conversation with someone there, and he was quite helpful and patient with me. For my weight and brood figure, 200 lbs, brood shouldered and 5"11, and also a side sleeper due to the herniated discs, he recommended at least 10" of latex. He said I could do 8, but that would be the minimum and 6 inches would just be too little. He suggestion the Dormio Euro for 8" at $2000 (Shop | Dormio Organic Beds) or the better Dolce Vita for a 10" mattress at $2700 (Shop | Dormio Organic Beds). I will make more calls tomorrow and hopefully this week I will make it out to some places and check out their offerings/lie on them. But, of course, this is a different price range than what I was considering with the Natura bed. He also said that he wouldn’t recommend polyfoam and that they did only latex as the most durable and best material. Fair enough. Perhaps I should make the greater invest and have a mattress for life or for a few decades at least. Your thoughts would, of course, be appreciated.

I’ll write more after some more research and calls. Thanks as always - you’ve been wonderful as I try to raise myself from my ignorance and find something that will help with my pain and improve my health.

Dave

P,S. I just learned or think I learned that Sleeptek makes Dormio and Obasan? At least according to this: https://nowtoronto.com/lifestyle/ecoholic/sleep-on-it-the-mattress-guide/. I was going to look into Obasan more and also Soma. But they all seem to be the same company? I’m a but confused here I guess, as I thought at least Dormio was independent.

Hi DHC,

It’s good to see that you are taking the time to phone and talk to some of the options on the list before you visit them in person and making some preliminary phone calls to the retailers/manufacturers that are on the list that are in reasonable driving distance is always a good idea before you visit any store anyway. This will tell you which of them carry mattresses that would meet your specific criteria, are transparent about the quality and durability of the materials in their mattresses (see this article), and that carry the type of mattresses that you are interested in testing in the budget range you are comfortable with and that have exchange or return policies that you are comfortable with and will save you a great deal of time and possible frustration. Once you have checked their websites and/or talked with the ones that interest you then you will be in a much better position to decide on the ones that you are most interested in visiting based on the results of your preliminary research and conversations.

Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the guidelines here … the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses (see this article) are more of a preference and a budget choice than a “better/worse” choice.

Latex hybrid mattresses can certainly make a good choice and depending on which type of “latex hybrid” you may be considering … there is more about all latex mattresses vs latex/polyfoam hybrids in post #2 here and there is also more about innerspring/latex hybrids vs all latex mattresses in post #13 here and the other posts it links to. Some people prefer latex hybrid mattresses to all latex mattresses either in terms of PPP or because their budget doesn’t allow for an all latex mattress but the best way to know which type of mattress you prefer is based on your own careful testing.

Obasan is a SleepTek brand name. SleepTek also makes some of the mattresses that Dormio sells but not all of them.

SleepTek is a manufacturer and Dormio and Soma are retailers and all of them are very different companies.

Phoenix

Thanks, Phoenix. I’m actually taking your advice, especially now that I have a little more time. And I’m listening to you about the hybrid beds, which I haven’t ruled out despite what he said. You’ve been most helpful and haven’t steered me wrong with all the wonderful information.

I’m wondering what you think about the specs for the beds given my specs and about the prices. I’m looking at some Obasan beds and the 8" ones are more expensive than the 11" Dormio I linked to. In fact, to get a Obasan that’s comparable in price, around $2500-2600 to the 2700 Dormio mattress, I’d have to go with a 6", which if the guy I spoke to today is right, is far too little support for me/my weight - he said I’d just sink to the core… I suppose I don’t know why the Obasan is so much more expensive for comparable thickness. Well, I guess, for example, price wise, this one https://www.somasleep.ca/product/173/ would compare to this one that I linked to earlier: Shop | Dormio Organic Beds. And the 8" from Dormio would be quite a bit cheaper: Shop | Dormio Organic Beds.

I see. Now I have them straight. I guess then the question is who makes Dormio’s other mattress, say the ones I linked to? Perhaps I should call back and ask. I just assumed they made all their own mattresses.

Hi DHC,

I would always keep in mind that the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” or PPP or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

Comfort and PPP is always the most important part of the “value” of any mattress purchase because no matter what the quality of the materials or how durable a mattress may be … if you don’t sleep well on it then it would have little value to you regardless of the price.

I can’t speak to how any mattress will “feel” for someone else because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances … outside of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) the most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can’t “feel” and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label (or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new).

Since all of the mattresses you linked are “all latex” mattresses … they would be closely comparable in terms of durability but they are all different designs so you would likely find that one of them will be a better “match” for you in terms of comfort and PPP than the others.

While the thickness of a mattress is only one of many factors in a mattress design that can make a difference in whether a mattress is a good “match for any particular person … there is more about the effect of thickness in post #14 here. While there are always exceptions … I would agree that based on “averages” a 6” latex mattress probably wouldn’t be a good “match” for most people in your weight range (although once again your own personal testing or experience is the only way to know for sure).

The name of their suppliers isn’t particularly relevant since a mattress is only as good as its design and the materials and components inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label and not all retailers are comfortable sharing the name of their suppliers for competitive reasons but if you ask them they will certainly be happy to provide you with any information that they are comfortable sharing.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks again for your response. Much appreciated. So today I headed out, planning to visit both Dormio and Soma, but spent all the time I had set aside at Dormio. It was very useful and I think I narrowed things down to two mattresses, even though I tried about 7 or 8 of them, ranging from $2000 to over $5000. Interestingly, the ones I liked most were the ones I noted in my last post, namely, their Euro at $2000 (dormio.ca/product/dormio-euro-mattress/) and their Dolce Vita at $2700 (dormio.ca/product/dormio-dolce-vita-mattress/).

I will go to Soma tomorrow or Saturday and likely make my decision by the weekend. They thing is that I wasn’t sure which to pick, and I really need some input, if that’s possible, even though how I feel on it can’t be conveyed or repeated by anyone else. The difference really is the 2" of soft latex on the Dolce Vita. It felt more comfortable, but the salesman said that he saw my hips sink a little. Whereas on the Euro he said my alignment was perfect. I felt that too. The Euro was firmer and more supportive, but perhaps not as ‘lush’ or comfortable, not that the Euro wasn’t comfortable too. I don’t know whether to go with the firmer or the softer one. I can purchase the Euro and then get the pillow top for the DV for another $1000 or so later, if I need it, but that’s another $300+. Feeling and comfort are important, but given my back issues, perhaps it’s more important to have the best spinal alignment? I am thinking of having some pictures take of me/of my spine to show my physiotherapist on Wednesday, to see what she things.

I’m also curious what you think of the prices, given the materials in them, since there’s some objective metrics there. I found out both these beds are manufactured by Snug Sleep in BC. Finally, I should mention that I did try one more bed that also stuck with me, but it may be too soft, even though when I first got on it, it was like heaven, like lying on clouds. It was the Melrose (Shop | Dormio Organic Beds). It was on sale for $3400 down from something over $5000. But I think that just might be above my price range and not the most suitable bed.

I’m also worried after reading some of the things you linked to that I’m just choosing a firm mattress because I just think that firm is better. Then again, the Eruro at 4" firm and 4" medium was quite supportive and even the salesman said my spine looked perfect on that. Not an easy decision!

Oh, one final thing, now really, I mentioned in passing how I had come to this site and how you had been so helpful, and in addition to singing your praises, he also told me I’d get a 5% discount. Now bad!