I am a person with severe chronic pain issues and get pain from my bones, nerves, muscles and joints. I am truly like the princess and the pea and have lost thousands in the past on wrong mattresses and can’t believe I jumped so fast on this one! I bought the Pure Latex Bliss Beautiful model with the 3" Talalay topper. In the store, I was literally brought to tears as I had never felt such pressure relief and comfort in a mattress in all my life. Because of this I did end up purchasing since there was some pressure that a major sale was over the day before and it might never go on sale again, blah, blah, blah. They did give me a good deal throwing in an adjustable base, which I have wanted for years due to pain and acid reflux issues, at significant savings from what I can tell. On top of the pain issues from Degenerative Disc Disease causing pinched nerves and spinal cord inpingement and Fibromyalgia, my sacrum is in 2 pieces floats out of place, etc. I also have severe Environmental Illness (aka Mulitple Chemical Sensitivities), so have to worry about reacting severely to basically anything. I know I can’t tolerate Memory Foams (at least not until months of off-gassing), and most beds of that didn’t feel soft enough anyway; so it seemed this latex was a much better, more healthy choice. Unfortunately, the adjustable base came and it has foam on it!! I had no idea, so I am reacting severely to that, but think the latex part is going to be okay. EXCEPT the bed is MUCH FIRMER than on the showroom and I can’t stand to be on it very long at all due to severe pressure points in the hips and shoulders. When you take the topper off, the bed itself feels like a plushness of 5-6 (according to my husband also) not the 9 listed on the website, who also feels it is nowhere near what the showroom bed felt like. The store was supposed to set up switching out the adjustable base with a floor model that has off-gassed for awhile, but they have not called back yet . I have spoken with Latex Bliss and I am hopeful that they will work with me to make it better, but I am so unsure as to what to do. It also seems to make us hot while on it - even with me only on it briefly, not horrible, but somewhat hot. The store told me to give it a week to soften up, and it has been 2 weeks with my husband sleeping on it only since I can’t be in the room long, and it has softened up some, but still nowhere near like in the store. I am not sure if we need to try a new base, try to add another soft topper, give it more time, etc. Will it ever feel like the one in the store. This cost over $5000 and I am on a fixed income and cannot throw that kind of money away. The guy from latex bliss said they do have a softer bed, but it might cost double what this one costs!! I just want it to feel like it did at the store so I can actually try it out to see if it will work for me. He also said I might need an even softer topper that he would have them make special for me of only 10 ILD, but I am afraid that it would allow me to feel the firmer base even more unless I added it on top of the other 3" one. I have done some research and found that PLB makes some toppers with Celsion, which is supposed to sleep cooler, so I was thinking about asking about that, but worry that it could cause more chemical odor and sensitiviity problems possibly. Does anyone have any suggestions at all? Should I maybe try a different type of topper altogether (keep in mind that memory foam would have to off gas months prior to my being able to be around it – if then.) I would appreciate any information anyone could provide. Thanks much!! (I do have a 120 week sleep guarantee for exchange only, but it might a while before I can even sleep on it depending on how long it takes them to bring the other adjustable base here. But I really doubt there is anything in the store that would even come close to being softer or better for me.
Hi jujub1
I’m somewhat baffled by the difference in the same model in the store and when it was actually delivered. This is mainly because latex doesn’t have the same tendency to soften and “break in” as other foams and while there will be some slight initial softening and the cover will loosen slightly … this would all be relatively minor. Some possible explanations (without knowing if any of these apply) may be …
The mattress you actually tried in the store was not the one that was delivered. I would check the law tag and also measure the mattress to make sure it is the correct thickness and is actually the Beautiful (which is among the softest of their mattresses). You may also want to go back into the store to confirm that the mattress you tried was the Beautiful rather than something else (find the one that feels the same as you remember and see what it actually is and what it is on top of). Try the store mattress both with and without the topper to see how your mattress compares both ways.
The mattress you tried in the store was on a different base than what you are using which can affect the feel of the mattress to some degree.
The topper you received was not the same as the one you tried in the store (either thinner, a different type, or a different ILD). Again this could be confirmed with a trip to the store to re-test the mattress and topper combination that you liked.
One way or another though … there seems to be something that is clearly different.
In terms of the adjustable base … you can use this outlet as a reference point for price comparison as they have among the best prices on the internet for various different adjustable bases.
I seriously doubt that you will need a 10 ILD topper which is unbelievably soft and the “standard” 14 ILD or the 15 ILD Celsion would likely be fine … especially on top of the Beautiful which is already very soft. This would especially be the case because it seems that the mattress you tried in the store didn’t have a 10 ILD topper and it seemed to be what you wanted. It almost sounds like you would be “fixing” the wrong problem. I would try to find out the real cause of the difference you are feeling before I started changing what already seemed to be a good choice for you. The goal is not to “fix” something that isn’t right in the first place but to get the same combination that you already tested.
Heat issues are connected both to the type of material in the mattress and to how deeply you sink into it. The deeper you sink in and the more you are “surrounded” by foam, the warmer a mattress will be. Even a mattress that uses highly breathable materials can be warmer in a softer version that the same materials would be in a firmer version where you don’t sink in as much. The Celsion will make a measurable difference if this is still an issue once you have the correct mattress/topper combination figured out.
I wish I could be more help but I would definitely go back to the store, find the mattress/topper combination you liked, and then compare it exactly to that you have to make sure they match. Once you’ve done this … then what comes next should be much more clear.
Phoenix
Phoenix,
Thanks so much for the advice. I appreciate your expertise. We did already measure them as I was sure it was not correct at first and the zippered cover says it is the Beautiful. I am not sure if my husband actually saw a law tag. I will ask him tomorrow. This bed is harder and has way worse pressure points than the bed I was on (but it is not capable of being put on adjustabled base). That bed (a Kingsdown KingsCourt model) did take quite some time to soften up, so I was going off that experience. I am extremely dissappointed to say the least. We will head back to the store. I hate to confrontations, but this is not right and I need the bed to feel like the one I laid upon. I wish I had found this site prior to purchasing the bed!!! At least now I know not to just accept it if they keep saying it will soften up in time. I hope it is not the adjustable base that is causing it to be that much firmer!! I really don’t think they could make a bed too soft for me, but again just never experienced such pressure relief as when I laid upon the store model. I felt suspended in air. I will be back in touch after we do so.
Can’t tell you how much I appreciate your knowledge base and the tips!! I think we might be better off with the Celsion topper for the cooler surface, however, does that technology make the topper any more firm than without it? From the posts I have seen, you really, really know ALOT – many people are benefiting from your help! The world needs more people like you in it!!
Take Care!
Hi jujub1,
I would probably go into the store with the approach of needing help to solve a mystery rather than expecting a confrontation. If you can find the mattress that you loved then it would be a matter of finding out what was different about it (or what else is with it) than what you are sleeping on. They should be the same unless something in the store setup that you are testing is different from your home setup that you are sleeping on. From the floor up … this could be the adjustable base, the mattress, the topper, or anything you have on top of the topper (mattress protector, sheets, etc.). All of these could affect the feel of your mattress to some degree. The goal is to discover any differences.
If the adjustable base is the same and the topper is the same and you are confident that your protector and sheets are not the cause of the difference (which is certainly possible and could be tested by removing them to test any difference) … then all that would be left is that the mattress is somehow different. Just to let you know … there are also two versions of the Beautiful. One is the natural here and one is the all natural here. They are similar (and have the same rating) but are not exactly the same. The all natural would be the most expensive of the two.
Your old mattress uses completely different materials (including polyfoam) which which would go through an initial softening or break-in period in the first few months but latex is not like this and doesn’t go through the same break-in period to anywhere near the same extent.
The Celsion topper is about 1 ILD different and that would be below perception and within the normal variance of a talalay latex surface. I would also test it in the store on the Beautiful though just to play it safe. It will improve your sleeping temperature to some degree and I would be very surprised if it caused you any issues because it is also talalay latex.
Hopefully a “step by step” approach of finding out what is different between the two and eliminating possibilities one at a time will solve the mystery and if the people in the store are worth their salt or have integrity … they should be just as interested in finding out the reason as you are and motivated to end up with a satisfied customer.
Phoenix
Thanks again, I needed to hear that. I really shouldn’t have said confrontation, but with all my previous bad experiences, I tend to assume the worse. Also, the salesguy has already made a few promises to me that he never followed through on, so I am apprehensive. If you knew me, you would probably have a better understanding of how much I feel things. It really is unbelievable. For example, I have been trying to find tennis shoes lately also and I have had no luck and brought up feeling things in the shoes causing me pain that sales people had never heard and even had to check into to find out it was slight something or other that no one have ever felt! My pain levels are very high also and pain is literally every part of my body. I have been completely screwed 2 times before on mattresses costing thousands that I just lost most of my money on, so I am petrified, but at least I was still working and not on disability back then. This is a smaller company, so word of mouth means alot to them, so I will try to think positive. The guys that brought the bed to set it up also left horribly smelly plastic on the adjustable base that I was stuck reacting horribly to and it not allowing the foam on it to even start off-gassing. That company told me that the plastic makes lots of its workers sick and to make sure we get it off as soon as possible. Apparently, they thought it was supposed to be left on.
The mattress in the store was NOT on an adjustable base. He said it would not make any noticable difference. My husband seems to think he remembers there being a latex looking base under the mattress. I really don’t remember as once I had that feeling on the bed, I just got so emotional that I was useless, and bought a bed without a full refund possibility which I swore I would NEVER do again!!! I had gone in just to look at a different bed recommended for chemical sensitivities, but it was way too hard, so the guy took us to this. After well over 25 years of horrible pain and sleep problems, I was in seventh heaven on that bed. And the ability to adjust for pain and acid will be a huge plus once I can stand to be in the room. They aired the bed out for me for almost 2 weeks and I can still smell the latex, but pretty sure it is the base I am getting so sick from. But I can’t be positive since I even react to some foods cooking and woods. I have to use special soap, shampoo, laundry detergent, etc. Can’t buy anything at normal stores at all. Sorry, I am venting, I tend to that when I am stressing over things. You are a voice of reason and it does help. We are planning to drive there Saturday to talk with them. First thing we will do is go straight to the bed and check it out and see if seems the same and all. Which one of the beautiful versions would be softer? Do you happen to know if their Worlds Best Bed that the Latex Bliss guy mentioned (even though it would possibly cost double and I couldn’t do that) would be way softer than this model. It does sound like you think they make fairly good beds – that is assuring to me also at least. Wish me Luck!! Thanks for your kindness and patience!!
Hi jujub1,
When you are in the store to find the mattress that you loved … make sure you check to see exactly what base it was on as well as the rest I suggested. Pure Latex Bliss has a foundation which has 4 of talalay latex on top of it and that would create a softer feel than a firm foundation. If the foundation in the store is a rigid, firm foundation that has no flex in it, then it would be very similar to the adjustable bed.
The natural and the all natural would be very similar but their natural latex is slightly more pressure relieving than all natural latex. The ILDs (softness ratings) of the layers are slightly lower with the all natural though so it would probably come close to balancing out. Because of your sensitivity however you may feel one as being softer than the other so it would be a good idea to make sure the store model and the one in your home were the same although I would guess they were both probably the natural.
Talalay latex has a kind of sweet or vanilla smell to it that in most cases doesnt seem to bother people … even those with chemical sensitivities … although each person is of course unique.
The top layer is softer even though the total thickness is the same. It would be a little softer but it wouldn’t be a huge difference. They rate it as a 10 and the beautiful as a 9.
Yes … I think they are high quality and have a good design. They are certainly better than the vast majority of mattresses sold in the typical chain stores or mass market outlets.
Good luck … and let us know what you discover 
Phoenix
Hello,
Don’t mean to interject too much because I feel that Phoenix is giving you some very sound advice regarding comfort selection and to help with these issues. I deal with a lot of people that have been diagnosed with very severe chemical allergies and environmental sensitivities.
Even though the all-natural latex might be better for the chemical sensitivities you have a double whammy of having to deal with severe pressure points so I think staying with what they claim is more pressure relieving is probably of benefit to you, the most off gassing you might be getting is most certainly from either the foam in the base or the glue in the base (most adjustable bases are made of plywood/particle boards) these would not be healthy for you to have in the room with you. Also PLB does have a high end latex boxspring that in theory would provide additional pressure relief, I can assure you that if the showroom model had this base under the mattress that this is atleast a significant part of the difference you are feeling at home compared to the showroom.
I would recommend you consider a couple other options and hopefully the retailer would be willing to entertain one or more of these options.
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To bring back the electric base for the latex base that PLB carries which is made of nothing but wood, and latex.
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If getting rid of the electric base is not something you will consider to do because of acid reflux issues, then I would highly recommend getting a very good air purifier with an active carbon (charcoal) filter that can remove VOC’s from the air, it would help immensely with the chemical off-gasing component which although does reduce over time does not completely go away.
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Another potential thing you can try to help with the heat is to try a woolen mattress protector, if you search online for the St. Dormeir mattress protector you can find a lot of positive reviews that claim a big difference in the heat. Well, technically it will not lower heat, it will very likely keep you dryer and more comfortable through out the night.
I hope I don’t complicate things too much, but I truly feel for you on the chemical sensitivities as I deal with these issues for people on an almost daily basis.
Budgy (& Phoenix),
I am shocked to have run into someone out here that is so in the know with Environmental Illness! I have been hoping for an adjustable base for over 18 years and just never splurged to get one before. My acid issues are extreme and due to my pain issues (including cervical), I can’t stand to double up on my pillows to raise my head a bit. At night the acid literally gushes out of my mouth and nose and chokes me (not constant, but enough that I often have to go just sit up somewhere instead of being able to to try sleep. I sure am hoping to be able to eventually handle being around it; but, I need the softness too and even though I have improved immensely since not working and treating the MCS, it is still very bad. I have very expensive air purifies in my house and have 3 running in the bedroom right now. Lucky me though (:lol: ), I am also highly reactive to the carbons in these “top of the line air purifiers” (Austin Air Healthmate Plus) and get very sick from them also. (I even react to the carbon masks I wear slightly, but not as bad as these purifiers.) I recently found out that I could try switching out the fiters to a different kind, but so far no luck, it is some better taking the potassium iodide out, but still getting sick from the base Hepa filter from Austin. Looking back over my test results from the center, I am highly reactive to Anthracite Activated Carbon and also just found out last night that all Austin machines use that. Unfortunately, the items (furniture and stuff used to make it safe for MCS sufferers are not plush and cushy items that my type of chronic pain issues must have and I ended up having to leave there to come home as it had gotten to the point with pain that it was impossible to stay with no place to sit or lay and unable to walk. I was so overwhelmed at the time with losing my 25 year career and a really good job and all and the illnesses that I wasn’t diligent enough to push and get it right since EHC said Austin was great and they could make me able to handle them and to keep them. Austin was going to work with me to give me a discount to replace them even though I have been trying to use them for 3 years, but now I am looking at searching out and trial and error of new air purifiers. (Sometimes I feel like a strange science experiment big time!!). Those can range from hundreds to over $1000 and cost prohibitive for sure at the moment – and no guarantee any of them will work.
I truly appreciate your input also!! I will certainly think long and hard about this. To be honest, having the bed adjust also helps with the pain as changing that type of position can give some relief (or at least a change) to pressure points also. Frankly, I am just so sick of dealing with all this!! But, you are right, it is certainly not healthy for me – and it make take months and months before I am even able to handle it (as has been the case with memory foam pads we had to get to soften up the last beds I have had – after a year or so, I could handle them under the sheets, but know that they are still not safe for me, just a necessary evil.) Since they brought the base in first and it permeated the room right off the bat, I never got a real chance to test the latex, but I am nearly 100% positive I would be okay with that. I will look into the wool protector you mentioned, I am allergic to wool also, but this would not be touching me so I think it could work so long as it does not have any odor that would bother me – thanks for that too. I realize with my type of pain issues, sometimes just NOTHING will ever be comfortable – my hair just brushing against my back can be unbearable at times. There have been times I cannot stand even the sheet touching me. Boy, I sure have found out that for anything soft in this world, you have to pay through the nose for it!! I have also made sure the sheets are loose on the bed so as not to tighten it too much, it is a bit softer without the mattress protector and sheets on, but with them not pulled too tight, it is not a huge difference, but it does always change it some. I don’t know a workaround for that one though.
Oh, I did also try putting my 5 year old memory foam pad on this bed also, but it didn’t help enough on the very top and made it even hotter to be on – then we put it under the topper (it is only a 1" extremely soft pad), but not really any change in pressure points at all (and not enough change with it on top to warrant it dealing with the extra heat issues). We do have another one that is a 1/2" thicker on a different bed in a guest room that is 3.5 years old and past the unbearable off-gassing stage, but it does not have a cover on it. We have not tried that one on this new bed as I am having to try to sleep on that one right now. I can defintiely say that Latex is MUCH easier to move on than with even a thin memory foam pad, but those don’t make it as bad a full memory foam mattress does to try to move.
Clearly the people at this site are some of the best people in the world – such acceptance and understanding that has been sorely lacking for me for most all my life and such knowledge and caring too! I am just so appreciative I just can’t express it in words. What a blessing it is to have found this place! Thank you, thank you, thank you - both of you!!
Phoenix,
This is probably a stupid question, but is it possible to get that 4" Talalay latex foundation layer to be able to go on to an adjustable bed frame? I am assuming NOT, but am wondering just to be sure. Just so I know depending on how we see we need to move forward.
Also, (fishing for reassurance here), I have read some mixed reviews as to Pure Latex Bliss themsleves works with people to resolve issues, are they usually pretty good to do so if we can’t get it resolved solely with the store? So far, my experience with the Customer Service Director has been very positive, but have had a hard time getting calls answered and slow response to messages from the initial customer care number. (Only worried due to a couple reviews posted on some other web sites when I trying to find answer prior to finding this place.)
Sorry, but I do have severe anxiety I am dealing (course you probably noticed this already!)
Take Care!
Thanks again so much!
H jujub1,
There’s no “stupid” questions except the ones that aren’t asked
A foundation is not “bendable” so it wouldn’t be suitable for use on an adjustable bed.
In my experience … the people at Pure Latex Bliss are good people and have often gone above and beyond in their efforts to help their customers. I’ve seen instances of them doing something that was outside their normal policies when possible just to keep a happy customer. An example would be the offer to make you a topper with a custom ILD. It’s usually the stores though who deal with individual customer inquiries and they run a “bare bones” operation to keep costs down so it’s not unusual that they are sometimes difficult to reach (not that this is a great thing) but once you do they are helpful in my experience. Each individual outlet though is the one who sets the exchange and return and other policies for their outlet (non warranty policies) so the service here may be different from store to store. Some will “go to bat” for you more than others.
I take many of the online reviews with a grain of salt and sometimes people will complain about a mattress manufacturer rather than the outlet that they are having trouble with and sometimes people will give a bad review on a mattress because it is not comfortable or causes them to have a sore back when this is more about their choice of mattress than it is about the mattress itself (even the best mattress and highest quality mattress may not be suitable for a particular individual’s needs and preferences and this has nothing to do with the mattress)
Hope this helps … and let us know what you discover at the store.
BTW … Budgy is a very experienced and knowledgeable person that has helped many people on public forums and I respect his advice highly.
Phoenix
Hey there. Well, my fears were not unfounded. Our salesman was not there, but the general manager was in the store when we went back. Everything had been moved all around so there is really no way of really knowing exactly how the set up was. Man, the guy really just went blank the minute we started going into the issues. He said absolutely NOTHING to respond at all to the fact that the salesman had told me that he would be willing to switch out the adjustable base with a floor model that had been on one of the other store’s showrooms for a while – dead silence, nothing. On the bed, he asked exactly what was wrong with me, said he was sorry I was having the issues, but the only thing he said he would be willing to do is give us the floor model in the store after we gave it a little more tiime, suggesting my husband sleep on the side I will eventually be on when I can finally go in the room (cause it should soften some at least). As far as whether it felt the same, I felt it was a bit softer with less pressure points than ours, but not perfect either. This time it was definitely on a regular PLB base - no latex on the foundation. I just don’t know for sure how it was last time.
I am just sick, it is quite evident that they do not intend to really do anything. I tried to feel around about asking for an extension on the satisfaction guarantee at least, but he basically just said he hopes the off-gassing stops soon. I know from past experience with mattress toppers for other beds in the house that it took months before I was able to be around them. I had explained all this to the saleman when we purchased the bed, which is why he set up airing out the mattress and topper for almost 2 weeks before delivering the bed. I really feel that he should have been able to tell me that there was foam on the adjustable base, so at least I would have known what to expect and have made a decision based on that as to whether to try it anyway and place it somewhere else for months until it was workable or go with something else. I mean he knew I couldn’t handle memory foam due to off-gassing. I realize anything new would still have some type of off gassing, but I just assumed it would be metal and hopefully not too much to cause issues. I have to believe that in the long run, the adjustable base will eventually be a huge help to me. He did say that bed is as soft as it gets. Funny when we bought the bed, the salesguy told us there were other comparable ones in the store as far as softness on the off chance it didn’t work.
I am ready to shoot myself for being so stupid and buying out of emotion. Hard to believe after the past I was stupid enough to do that again! No one to blame but me on that one. On the up side, my husband’s back is doing better on this bed since it is much firmer than what we had before – but he does not have the issues that I do at all and we bought it for me. He is noticing an improvement though – he also weighs quite a bit more than I do, so it makes sense. And on top of that, my system is honestly just completely overwhelmed literally with chemicals and I have been feeling worese than horrible all the time. I am having to leave the house some just to get away from it all. I have lost the one safe haven I had before – my bedroom.
Sorry I didn’t write right away, but I was pretty devastated and trying to regroup to figure out how to move forward and make the best out of the situation. Once I am more ready, I would love assistance with your expertise on figuring out how to add toppers to make it work for me and get rid of the pressure points and firmness. I am PRAYING that I will be able to keep the adjustable part since I do really need it for my reflux issues, but for now I can’t even think of that part. I know that this is a good bed at least. I will just need another topper and something to make it sleep cooler for it to work for us.
Thanks for being there and thanks in advance for any future ideas you can impart on me to help me get the mattress to where it will eventually work for me.
My husband is still sweating his butt off when he sleeps on it. We did find the St Domeir mattress protector, the cheapest price we found for it is 189.00, plus shipping. It certainly has good reviews though! I am hoping it might go on sale somewhere eventually.
Take Care!
Judi
Hi judi,
OK … lets take things one step at a time because we are dealing with multiple issues and we need to eliminate possibilities one at a time.
You may have overwhelmed him a little if you went into too many details too quickly and didn’t boil the problem down to it’s essence. Bear in mind that many people are not used to dealing with these types of complex issues and may not take you as seriously as you deserve and if you just started talking about all the things that were “wrong” he may not have known how to deal with you in a way that he felt there was any hope of success.
In essence … you really only have two separate issues that they have the ability to help with. One is that you want to solve the mystery about the different softness levels of the bed you tried in the store compared to the one you have. I would treat this as a “mystery” and not as something they did wrong or should have known about. I would scrupulously avoid attaching any hint of “blame” or “should haves” to the situation (either on their part or on yours). The second is the issue of the off-gassing of the adjustable base and a possible exchange for a floor model. If you went into more detail than this or implied that they did something “wrong” then you may have put him on the defensive which makes a resolution much more difficult.
To deal with the first issue … about the softness … you need to first find the combination of what you were lying on in the store that feels the same to the best of your memory and ability. A good possibility is that it was the latex base (based on your husband’s memory) with the Beautiful on top of that with the 3" topper on top of that. Ask them to set this up to see if that seems to be what you loved so much. Until you find out what you were lying on … there is really no way to know why it felt different from what you have.
I would also confirm whether you are testing (and bought) the “natural” or the “all natural” version of the Beautiful.
Once you can say for sure that you have re-discovered the combination that you loved … then it’s just a matter of finding out the difference between that and the one you have.
I would probably not assume this because he may not have been clear about exactly what you were hoping to do or how to get there in the overall confusion or complexity of the situation. I would not “feel around” but would focus on “solving the mystery” which will help identify the “problem” which needs to be “fixed”. Without knowing exactly what the problem is … it’s difficult to find a solution. Just to be clear … the problem is not that your mattress is too firm (that’s a symptom of the problem) … but that what you have is not the same as what you remembered trying in the store and your goal is to re-discover what you tried in the store to find out why. You know that there is a combination that worked for you. The goal is to find it.
The second issue is the adjustable foundation off-gassing issues.
The first thing I should ask you is are you certain that you want to keep this? As Budgy mentioned … there may be off-gassing from both the foam in the base and from any glues that are used. Most adjustable bases will have foam on the sides (although some are more of a platform base and don’t) and most of them would probably include glue in the base as well. You may have to do some research to find an adjustable base that has minimal or no foam (with a platform rather than a “box like” adjustable section). Even then there would still be the unknown issue of whether the glue affected you.
If you were to discover that the reason the mattress in the store felt so soft was because it was on the base with 4" of latex … which base would you want to use (if you had to choose between them)?
If your choice would be to use an adjustable base anyway in spite of the fact that this would make your mattress firmer (and explain the softness mystery) … then it would make sense to ask the salesman you were originally dealing with to keep his word about exchanging the one you have for the floor model (even though it still may not be enough to deal with the off-gassing after only a few weeks on the floor). In this case … you may need to add something to an already soft mattress (that unfortunately feels too firm for you) to “make up for” the added softness of the latex foundation that is missing.
If your choice was to go with the latex foundation (assuming that it is the reason for the softness mystery) … then you would need to ask if you could exchange the adjustable foundation for the latex foundation.
So all of this hinges on first finding the combination that feels the same to you in the store. Second it hinges on deciding if you really want to keep the adjustable foundation or ask if you can exchange it for something else. Once you know for sure what you want to do … then you would be in a better position to ask the store about a specific exchange or ways that they could help you and they would also be more clear about exactly what would solve the issues you have and give them a happy customer. They would be in a much better position in other words to tell you what they could and couldn’t do.
So hopefully this helps … and the next step would be to find out exactly the combination that feels like you remember it feeling in the store.
Phoenix
Phoenix,
Thanks for the reply. I really felt that we did not “attack” at all, but sometimes things can be preceived different than what we feel they are being said for sure. Honestly, I am so used to being left extremely disappointed from previous experiences, it does affect me. I am terrible at being assertive (and believe it or not, my husband is even worse.) I am a people pleaser to the core and have trouble taking care of myself, so if, anything I typically go so far the other way instead of being perceived as attacking in any way. But again, perceptions can be different of course. If there is one thing I know for sure, it is that this condition freaks people out and most don’t believe it is possible at all – so that is surely a huge part of it I am sure. Even if they try to accept it, they have no clue what to do about it or how to proceed. That makes this condition so much worse even as even family and friends don’t “get it” and most are not willing to try to do the things necessary to help make it possible for you to comfortably be around them. I get that, but it doesn’t make it any easier to deal with.
I want this bed to work out very much and the main reason we have continued to yearn for a new bed is wanting an adjustable base so bad to help with acid and pain. I know full well how difficult it is to find a bed soft enough for the likes of me (and pressure relieving at all). Until I experienced that feeling on that bed that day, I never dreamed that it was possible to not feel major pressure and pain increases when on a bed. I had no intention of actually buying that day, but when I said I planned to wait - he led us to believe that the bed might NEVER go on sale again. On the receipt, the price we paid was for the bed only and they “threw in” the adjustable base. It did not cost a thing. We got 4 years 0% financing on the bed or we would not have even been able to consider this at all.
I had tried to look up safer alternatives for adjustable bases since first speaking with you all, but I was unsuccessful in my pursuit. Hearing you say that is a good thing to hear, but I have no clue how to go about finding them or affording them.
I didn’t even tell the general manager that the salesguy had told me he would call me as soon as they were ready to make the switch and left us hanging, I just said he had mentioned the ability to switching out for a floor model. And I told him that one only having off gassed for a couple weeks wouldn’t make any difference at all. My husband mentioned that for us to know for sure about feel, we would have to take sheets and the mattress protector to really see how it would feel after all that. (Now, that part is true – I think stores should have the models with all that on them so you can get a true feel of how it will feel to sleep on a mattress.). I also worry immensely about putting company’s through a lot and then still not being sure that actually sleeping on it all night for weeks would not be as perfect as we think. I would feel horrible if i put them through the ringer and then found out it does not work anyway. (My anxiety issues don’t help me out in this life at all. - I end up questioning myself and it sprials on and I can’t shut it off, etc.)
They said it was set up exactly how it was before, and I don’t know how to push without pissing off someone. And in all honesty, I can’t be absolutely sure cause I don’t remember anything but the wonderful feeling I experienced being on the bed.
I can certainly ask about the whether it is the natural or the all natural. The company that made the base (Reverie) was supposed to get back to me about the glues and stuff, but they never called. I know I freaked Glideaway (the company that sold the Reverie base to mattress store) out as the first guy I talked to got very defensive immediately as I guess he thought I was planning on sueing or something – I just wanted information about the product, but he brought me to tears on phone within a couple minutes. I immediately said he couldn’t answer due to legal implementations, but that was the furthest thing from my mind. The gal from Reverie was nice, but never did call back with info. Also, the guy from glideaway said the different materials were used on the foam and cover than the girl from Reverie when I spoke with her. Makes it hard to really know anything for sure. I was also told information would be sent to me in the mail, but I never got anything.
Can you tell me what companies make a safer adjustable base without foam and less other materials? I know there will always be something in anything new that I will most likely react to initially, but the less things the better and some things might not be as bad as others. This condition sucks though as it is so much trial and error.
Thanks again for your advice. I need to get myself together and try again I know, but sometimes I just get to where I give up, cause I don’t know what the answer it and reacting to chemicals and dealing with so much pain doesn’t help any of that. The only person through all this that I have had a positive experience with is the guy from PLB himself (from company’s I am dealing with – not including you and Budgy of course!!). I need to write everything down and somehow emotionally detach from all this while there.
Hi jujub1,
I think there are no “perfect” solutions in cases like this and I also realize that any suggestions I may make may only be going over known ground or may not be effective or possible but I’ll make them anyway in the hopes that some of them may help
I certainly understand that you didn’t “attack” and I doubt that this is what they were responding to. An actual “attack” or feeling like you are being attacked is uncomfortable but easier to deal with because all you have to do is say no and refuse to engage any longer. If someone is feeling attacked … they will generally either “counterattack” (if they tend towards more emotional reactions), try to calm the attacker down by staying calm and focusing on the attack itself first rather than the reason behind the attack (the problem that needs resolving), or if it continues beyond reason, to remove the “attacker” from their store. None of this is what seems to have happened.
On the other hand … when someone hears a story that pulls at the heartstrings but it isn’t clear what can be done about it, has implications that are connected to it that are never fully or clearly identified or understood, or they aren’t certain why they are being told all the things that they are hearing (there is no clear and simple path to resolution and identifies more problems than solutions) … it is much more difficult to deal with and tends to overwhelm people who on the one hand “want” to help if the solution is simple, clear, and reasonable but on the other hand can also feel like they are being asked to solve a problem that has no real solution and will end up becoming more and more complex.
They may feel like they are being asked to take the first step on a very slippery slope which leads to ever worse “problems” with no solutions and tends to bring up more subtle resistance to anything that is said. You will tend to hear more and more “yes but” or “I understand but” type of responses (which seems to be the case here). The “yes” or “I understand” because they don’t want to offend someone that is already emotionally affected and the “but” because they feel like there is nothing clear that they can do without leading to an even more difficult problem that they will also be asked to resolve (the next step on the slippery slope). These situations are much more difficult to deal with because they walk along a very fine line of helping to the degree possible and being drawn in to unsolvable problems. Most people will take the"safe" route when dealing with this which is to say in effect “I can’t help” in a way that is as inoffensive as possible.
This is why I was suggesting that perhaps they were overwhelmed and being drawn in to a situation that was more complex than they were able to deal with rather than feeling like they were being attacked. I also understand that this is part of what makes situations like yours so difficult because it can sometimes seem like there is nobody who really understands what you are going through or is willing to help when it can be more about the fact that they may feel powerless to help and a description of further details or symptoms and the possible reasons behind them can lead to them feeling more powerless yet.
The goal of “re-discovering” the combination that you loved is to find out how much of the “softness” difference is objective and how much is subjective. If you are feeling pain or more sensitive … even things that were great when you had less pain or were in a different state may feel too firm when your circumstances or perceptions change even if the thing itself hasn’t changed at all. The tendency in these cases will be for people to say or imply that “it is you” and of course they are correct. The problem here is that it is just as real regardless of the cause. If in these cases someone hears an implication that somehow they are expected or being asked to do something that can “fix” the problem … then their inability or lack of confidence that they can do so leads to defensiveness and resistance. This is their “safest” approach.
If it is “objective” it becomes important to find out what the source of the problem really is because it may not be the first thing that comes to mind and may have a more “hidden” cause that nobody really knows or understands. This can involve a great deal of trial and error over a long period of time. As you know … even the effects of the chemicals that all of us are exposed to on a daily basis are poorly understood and even if they were … it still leaves open the probability that the infinite possible combinations that are possible may still affect a very small percentage of the population and there is even less information about this available. One of the difficulties with situations like yours is that things that are felt as “objective” can change day to day even when everything around us is the same. This doesn’t of course mean that what you feel isn’t real or that it doesn’t need to be dealt with and somehow solved (which of course it does) … only that there is no clear pathway to a solution in these cases. In the case of the “softness issue” … the only way to know for certain is if you can duplicate the original combination that felt so good.
I really have no real idea if there is a “safe” solution for your own unique circumstances because I don’t know for sure the source or specifics of what is affecting you. The most likely candidates are the glues in the wood and the foam but there may be other factors involved as well. Very few companies even know the details of every component in their product that comes from other suppliers (such as the foam, the wood, the coating on the steel, the chemicals in the wheels, the fabrics that are used, the insulation around the wires, or any other components in the final product). In these cases you have to eliminate the most likely possibilities without knowing for certain that they are the final cause or will solve the problem. Even electrical or bio-magnetic fields could be a source of the problem in some way.
I also have a Reverie and I took a look and it probably wouldn’t be difficult to eliminate the foam on the sides of the adjustable platform. It would affect the look and cosmetics of the base but it wouldn’t affect the function that I can see. Of course any wood in the product could not be removed or replaced without a lot of expense and effort and this could be part, most, or all of the cause of the problem.
The difficulty with this is that there are so many types of bedding and protectors … each of which will have a very different effect on the mattress … that this would not be practical or even effective unless someone chose the exact same materials that were on the showroom floor. This would normally be better dealt with by helping people to understand the main differences between the many different choices they have and how “in general” each one may affect the mattress they are considering or their own experience. This can even be a “bonus” because the choice of bedding can “fine tune” a mattress that is very close but not quite right. For example … if someone was willing to give up the idea of having a waterproof mattress protector and wanted something as soft and stretchable as possible and could still offer good protection to most things, they may choose something like this. Other people may want a more waterproof protector (like the dormeir which is more water resistant than cotton) or one of the thinner waterproof protectors (which are less breathable and may sleep hotter) and choose something with a different combination of properties that may affect the feel of the mattress more.
I understand this completely (and it relates to the earlier part of this post) and this is the reason behind the “slippery slope” that most people will try to avoid. The changeable nature of what you feel or sometimes the inability to find the real cause of your experience is also the reason behind the need for clarity in terms of knowing exactly what they may be able to do to help … and knowing that their “best” may still not work. If they truly understand that you are not looking for a solution that may or may not exist but only exploring options about what is and isn’t possible … they will feel more comfortable in making suggestions or suggesting ideas that they consider to be reasonable (in their eyes) without having to resort to “platitudes” to “appease” you. Someone who truly realizes that you are completely OK with them if their “best efforts” fail (whatever that may be) rather than believes that they will be asked to do more if a possible solution fails to solve the problem (the slippery slope again) will be far more likely to be your ally.
Again … I have no real idea but at least knowing that you may react to certain types of wood products or foam will at least give you the direction for more detailed research or be able to ask better questions. There may be no easy answers but I would tend to focus on asking if there is any “glued wood” products (like MDF or Plywood) in the product and if there is any “hidden” foam anywhere as well. Sometimes this may involve an even more difficult journey of finding someone who is willing to find out details that may take them a great deal of time and effort and still lead to not knowing for sure. They may feel like taking the time to find out that level of detail may be risking the goodwill of their employer.
So again … the first step is to see if you can recreate the original feeling in the store. This will help you know if what you felt when you first tested it was more subjective, objective, or a combination of the two. If it turns out that it was mostly objective then that would be very hopeful because it would increase the odds that the feeling could be duplicated on a day to day basis and would give you a guideline for the direction to go next.
There are some adjustable bases here (roewa) and here (axelbloom) and here (ikea) that are made with different materials (although they still include wood) that may help but they are more expensive (except the Ikea) and may need some research into whether the materials they use are also likely to affect you. They may not all be easily available (like the Roewa for example) so they are meant to be more examples of possibilities than actual suggestions that can be purchased.
All in all … I know that you face difficult circumstances and that finding solutions can be as difficult as the issues you are facing themselves. Hopefully … this particular challenge can be resolved in a way that is as good as it can possibly be.
Bear in mind too that after you have dealt with your options through the retailer … that PLB itself may be able to suggest some type of possible solution (either on their own or through the retailer) that is of a more exceptional nature (such as custom making the softer topper) that may get you even closer to your best possible solution. If they are able to make an “exception” to their normal policies or support the retailer in making an exception … then the retailer may be more inclined to go outside of their normal policies as well.
I hope you let us know how your ongoing efforts go
Phoenix
Phoenix,
Good morning. I am in the middle of some really deep soul searching right now. Thanks for the links you provided on adjustable bases – I will check them out. I have clearly been too overwhelmed with toxins of late and things are beginning to crumble - so to speak. When this condition was at its worst with me, I literally reacted to pretty much everything so badly that life was completely intolerable. We had to throw out thousands of dollars of things to get it out of the house - every chemical and soap and shampoo, etc. I am really starting to freak right now cause things I had finally gotten to be able tolerate are becoming intolerable again – still not totally ‘normal’ products, but ones that I could not handle in its peak. I know it is because I have been exposed to so much of late (more than just the bed stuff, but not going into it all here). I am petrified of getting to the point again – I couldn’t even handle our mail due to ink odors, etc.
I went to the doctor yesterday and she said the adjustable base would be a huge asset to me in her opinion in the long run (provided it becomes tolerable of course). It could take 6 months to a year (or more) before it might be tolerable though. This has surely been an eye opener for me in realizing this condition is never going to get to the point that it is simpler to deal with. She also mentioned that any base at all might not work – case in point, my husband’s parents bought a bed for my step daughter at her mom’s that got delivered here. The foundation was wood covered with fabric and they could not leave it in the house due to my reacting so badly to it. Anything new has is likely to cause a reaction.
Is there any workaround to the waterproof mattress protector that all stores demand that you use or suffer the void of the warranty? We definitely noticed that even though we can leave the sheets loose on the bed, this protector is making it feel like a board to me no matter what we do. I cannot afford to void a warranty on a purchase this high. I am sure it makes it hotter too! (Not the this matterss is perfect without it on – but it does make it much firmer for sure.) I am hoping for a cheat so that you don’t lose the warranty, but doesn’t ruin the softness either.
Anyway, I am also doing a reality check also on the actual bed itself – with your knowledge, can you tell me whether this PLB could ever be made to be as soft as the Kingsdown Kingscourt model that I was using. After years, it had really softened up quite a bit – but sometimes it was still way too painful for me. This was with a very soft memory foam topper on it also. Would adding more layers of toppers ever make this bed as soft and feel as totally pressure-less as I experienced at the store? (We will be going back to the store again soon and check on whether it is natural or all natural too.) I just still can’t believe how firm the main mattress is. The day we laid on it in the store though, we never laid on the main mattress alone. So, I have nothing to base a comparison on that part on at all. I have to figure out what is the best possible thing to ask for to try to get this to where it might work. Do you know of any other bed that might be significantly softer and pressure relieving on the market? (Only asking in case of having to try to exchange it for some other bed altogether – I would have to know for sure that it would be way softer for sure!) My husband set the bed up for me yesterday folding over the topper so I could lay on it to see if just getting another one of those might work – it was softer of course, but not sure it was like it would be due to the fold. Had the initial “aah”, but after just a bit, pain definitely increased and it seemed more firm – hard to describe exactly. So, I was thinking of the PLB guy saying they would make the softer 10 ILD possibly – whether to try that alone or on top of the other one or go to 2" ect. (Or even go to wool or something else). I can’t help but think that the 10 alone would allow me to bottom out quicker and hit that firm base easier – am I thinking correctly or way off base here? Plus, doing all that with double carbon masks and a pre-filter on my face where it is kinda hard to breathe freely and all. The more I think, the crazier I feel and scareder I get. I simply don’t know for sure what the right answer is – or if there is one at all.
BTW, thanks so much for your acceptance of me and not just doing the dismissive eye roll & collective sigh I so often get when trying to explain the MCS to people. It really means the world to me. I do realize how unreal this seems to ‘normal people’ (kinda like something out of sci-fi movie); however, that knowledge does not make it any easier for those of us with it to cope - as dealing with the condition alone is quite difficult enough and overwhelming.
Thanks SOOOO much!!!
Judi
Judi,
I use the SafeRest mattress encasement and it has not made by bed any more firm or hotter. You have to make sure you get the right size & height. I don’t even notice that it is on. You can try it and if you don’t like it, Amazon will take it back.
Hey Koala – thanks for the suggestion! My computer is acting up, but I did go to Amazon and it looks like the protector works on 6"-9" mattresses. It locked up on me when I tried to check on other sizes so I will go back at another time. This mattress is 15" deep so am not sure it will work, but you do mention getting the correct size, so I will reboot and give it another try. I really appreciate your input very much!!
Thanks again and have a wonderful day!
Judi
Hi Judi! There are two versions that you can choose from that will fit your bed. There is a 12-15" version, and a 15-18" version. I personally would prefer the 12-15" version because I don’t like loose sheets. If you are worried that the fit will be too tight and might “firm up” your mattress, you could go with the 15-18" version. You can order directly at http://www.saferest.com/Bed-Bug-Encasements_c_9.html, but I find that the prices are cheaper on Amazon.
The version I linked you to above is an “encasement” style, meaning that it completely surrounds the mattress on all sides. If you want a “fitted sheet” style, they sell those too at http://www.saferest.com/Mattress-Protectors_c_1.html, or I’m sure you can also find them on Amazon. They are one size and fit 9-18". I haven’t used this style, but I believe it is made out of the same material as what I am using. Then you wouldn’t have to worry about a tight fit firming up the mattress.
(Although, again, I use the encasement style and it has not firmed it up)
Hi jujub1,
When you are looking at a mattress protector there are some tradeoffs to consider. One of the most popular are the type that Koala mentioned because they have a breathable waterproof membrane which allows the passage of water vapor but not liquid. I personally prefer the top protectors only for breathability unless bedbugs are a concern. The tradeoff with these is that they are not quite as breathable as cotton or wool but they are waterproof and most have little effect on the mattress (although some are stiffer and will affect the mattress more)
Naturepedic makes the only organic version of this type that I know of. It has no offgassing and the membrane is food grade but it is also more expensive.
Another alternative is a thin stretchy wool mattress pad and among the best of these is the St Dormeir. They are water resistant (which is fine for most people) and have the advantages of wool (temperature regulation and breathability) but they will affect the softness of the mattress more. A search on the internet will bring up lplaces that sell them.
A third type would be a stretchable woven cotton such as this. They are not waterproof but will absorb the fluids we all give off while we are sleeping and protect against dirt, stains, and body oils. They are very soft and stretchy and soft enough to sleep on, won’t affect the softness of the mattress, and are also very breathable.
All of these offer mattress protection, are organic and won’t offgass so the choice is really a matter of the tradeoffs between waterproofness, breathability, and how much they affect the softness of your mattress. If you decide to go with a lower cost thin breathable membrane type … I would make sure that it has cotton on one or both sides of the membrane (like the one that koala mentioned) rather than synthetic fabric.
Mattress warranties are voided with any type of stain so a mattress protector is a good idea but the exclusion is for an actual stain rather than whether or not you own or use a protector.
Hope this helps
Phoenix
Phoenix,
Thanks for the info on protectors. I had been thinking and worried that we would have to place the wool or any other over the initial one the store told us we must use in order not to void the warranty. I am really interested in the wool one for sure – especially since the mattress seems to cause so much heat (or maybe the protector also since it is on there with my husband in the bed. I didn’t realize that one would be “waterproof like”. I will research the others as well.
You did not respond to the paragraph below, so I am re-sending it. (I do apologize if I am getting on your nerves – I don’t mean to, I am just scared to death and need to make the best choice possible under the circumstances – please know that I am sorry if it is getting old and bothersome to you!) This is what I had written:
“Anyway, I am also doing a reality check also on the actual bed itself – with your knowledge, can you tell me whether this PLB could ever be made to be as soft as the Kingsdown Kingscourt model that I was using. After years, it had really softened up quite a bit – but sometimes it was still way too painful for me. This was with a very soft memory foam topper on it also. Would adding more layers of toppers ever make this bed as soft and feel as totally pressure-less as I experienced at the store? (We will be going back to the store again soon and check on whether it is natural or all natural too.) I just still can’t believe how firm the main mattress is. The day we laid on it in the store though, we never laid on the main mattress alone. So, I have nothing to base a comparison on that part on at all. I have to figure out what is the best possible thing to ask for to try to get this to where it might work. Do you know of any other bed that might be significantly softer and pressure relieving on the market? (Only asking in case of having to try to exchange it for some other bed altogether – I would have to know for sure that it would be way softer for sure!) My husband set the bed up for me yesterday folding over the topper so I could lay on it to see if just getting another one of those might work – it was softer of course, but not sure it was like it would be due to the fold. Had the initial “aah”, but after just a bit, pain definitely increased and it seemed more firm – hard to describe exactly. So, I was thinking of the PLB guy saying they would make the softer 10 ILD possibly – whether to try that alone or on top of the other one or go to 2” ect. (Or even go to wool or something else). I can’t help but think that the 10 alone would allow me to bottom out quicker and hit that firm base easier – am I thinking correctly or way off base here? Plus, doing all that with double carbon masks and a pre-filter on my face where it is kinda hard to breathe freely and all. The more I think, the crazier I feel and scareder I get. I simply don’t know for sure what the right answer is – or if there is one at all." I want to ask for the right thing in order to make this situation work out – I really want this bed to end up working out, but just not sure what it the right thing to ask for to get the best solution. Sorry!!
I am not sure how you became so knowledgable on so many different beds, but it is a gift that you are awesome for sharing with the world Phoenix – thanks!!
My husband is really not happy with how much he is sweating on the bed – as the temperature is increasing here, it is getting worse for him even with ceiling fan on high and 3 air purifiers running in there. It kept him up for hours last night. We definitely have to get a protector that will help with that no matter what else we do!!
Thanks again so much to you and everyone else who have given me info to help!!
Judi