Found the Perfect Mattress - Too much Money

I finally found the mattress I love, however my wife won’t spend the $2,600 to get it. It’s Kingsdown “Sheridan” which I believe is in their Passions line.
We bought a Costco Sterns and Foster, but hate it. We got the one that is the softest on their scale. But its too firm for us. Also, it rolls us off the side. Feel like we are going to roll out of the bed. Can’t really make it up to the middle of the bed, feel like we are fighting it. We are in the return process now, thankful for the Costco return policy.
What I love about the Kingsdown is it has the plush feel we are looking for (I think it has a 3 or 4" topper) and even all the way through middle to side.
Any suggestions what I could look at that would give me the same comfort as the Kingsdown w/o the heafty pricetag?

Hi ejcrossi,

There is more about the different ways that one mattress can “match” another one in post #9 here but unless two mattresses have almost exactly the same design with the same type materials, the same layer thicknesses and firmness, and a functionally similar cover there really isn’t any way to know how closely two mattresses will approximate each other for any particular person outside of your own personal testing or experience.

“Feel” is also very subjective and I would also suggest avoiding using using a specific mattress as your “target” or reference point because it may not be the best possible match for you in the first place compared to other mattresses that you haven’t tried and you could end up excluding many other mattresses that may be different but could be a better choice in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). Human memory for softness, firmness, and “feel” is also very unreliable and short term and a mattress that may feel similar to what you “remember” another mattress feels like may end up being very different than how they would compare if you were to test them side by side in real time. Instead of using a specific mattress as a reference point I would rate every mattress you consider against a common set of criteria (rather than against another mattress) using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post and based on which one is the best “match” for you in terms of PPP and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

The first place I would start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that you will need to make the best possible choice … and know how and why to avoid the worst ones. There is also more about the three most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses in terms of comfort and PPP, quality and durability, and “value”…

I would be very cautious about buying a Kingsdown or any mattress where you aren’t able to confirm the quality of the materials inside it to make sure there aren’t any lower quality materials or “weak links” in the design (see this article and the guidelines here) and Kingsdown isn’t generally transparent about the quality of the materials inside them (see this article).

While the most important part of “value” of a mattress purchase is comfort and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) but outside of PPP … a mattress is only as good as its construction and the quality and durability of the materials inside it and the durability and useful lifetime of a mattress is also a key part of the value of a mattress. No matter how it may feel in a showroom … there would be little value in buying a mattress where the use of lower quality and less durable materials leads to foam softening and the loss of comfort and support much too quickly after a purchase and foam softening and the loss of comfort and support isn’t considered to be a defect and isn’t covered by a mattress warranty (see post #174 here).

If you let me know your city or zip code I’d be happy to let you know about any of the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area.

Phoenix

I am in Phoenix Arizona, 85018. I totally understand about 1 vs another, just hoping to find a good spot to look or type to look for. I have gone to several places, and have not really liked anything.
I am not an all memory foam fan “temper”. I tried a few different latex, latex mix, and latex/innerspring from Brooklyn Bedding, and I am not sure about them.

Hi ejcrossl,

The better options or possibilities I’m aware of in the Phoenix area (subject to the guidelines here) are listed in post #4 here. You are very fortunate to live in the area because 4 of the manufacturing members of the site are based there and you have the chance to test their mattresses in person while most of the forum members can only order them online.

Phoenix

I had a chance to check the Dream Foam and the Sleep EZ showrooms. I felt like the Dream Foam had a better feel for my liking and a better “finish” to the quilt layers. I am concerned though about the one I liked for price and comfort which is the Ultimate Dream Eurotop. This model has an 8" 1.8 lb base foam. The top is a 3" latex layer.
From your articles, 1.8 lbs of base foam is right on the line of what to accept. Should I be concerned. The next level up has 2.17 lb base foam and 2 layers of latex, but it jumps up $700 and puts us outside of our price range.
We both are 5’10" and weigh roughly 200 lbs.
Is there a major benefit of the increased spend to go w/ an all latex mattress vs one w/ foam base? Going with Sleep EZ would be over a 100% increase in price.

Hi ejcrossl,

The minimum criteria that I suggest in the guidelines here would be more durable than the “standard” that is used in most of mainstream industry and would be the minimum densities and guidelines where I wouldn’t (not would) be concerned with durability issues or premature foam softening and breakdown and there would be no obvious “weak links” in the mattress relative to your weight.

There is more about some of the differences between an all latex mattress and a latex/polyfoam hybrid in post #2 here. In the case of the two mattresses you are comparing the two main differences are that one is all latex while the other uses a polyfoam support core and one uses a more costly wool quilted cover while the Dreamfoam cover is quilted with a softer polyfoam.

Only you can decide whether the tradeoff between less costly materials and the feel and performance of each mattress relative to the price of each of them is “worth it” to you but there is more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between them based on PPP, the quality and durability of the materials, and all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including price of course and the return/exchange policy and options you have available to customize the mattress after a purchase that are available to you).

Both of the mattresses you are considering would certainly be a great quality/value choice relative to their price range.

Phoenix

Any experience with The Mattress Factory, or any feedback on them from members? I plan to visit them tomorrow due to great prices on their website. They seem to meet the standards of quality components you discussed.
They are on your list, but not a member. Just curious since their prices seem to be quite a bit lower than the rest.

Hi ejcrossl,

I don’t have any personal experience with them but I would be very cautious with their lowest budget mattresses. Low prices mean very little unless they are low prices for high quality materials and there are no weak links in the mattress. The price of a mattress is only one part of its “value” and "value is always more important than price. It’s easy to make “cheap” mattresses if you use lower quality materials that will soften or break down very quickly or don’t have enough padding to be comfortable to sleep on in the first place.

They would certainly be worth including in your research of course but I would make sure that you find out all the information listed here about any of their mattress that you are considering so you can make sure they don’t include too much in the way of lower quality materials and that they don’t have a “weak link” in their design.

Without knowing the type and quality of the materials in a mattress it’s impossible to make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses or know whether their prices would be “good value” or “poor value” regardless of their price.

Phoenix

I had a chance to visit both Arizona Mattress and Mattress Factory. It was a real pleasure to get a chance to talk to Ken the owner of Arizona Mattress. His passion for cutting the BS out of the mattress industry is apparent.

I have some concerns over Mattress Factory. The woman I worked with was not very knowledgeable about all the details I learned to ask here.
I really liked the Premier Latex Encased mattress. It is a pocket coil innerspring w/ a foam encasement. Its a eurotop encasement with a 3" latex layer in the top.
She mentioned the manufacturer of the pocket coils as one I recognized from the forum, but I can’t find it.
I am concerned over the thickness of the quilt layer, she said its about 2.5". I worried this would be a weak link.
She was unable to tell me the density of the foam
The foundation had its slats 7 1/4" apart which doesn’t seem like the right support for a foam base.

Hi ejcrossi,

Thanks for taking the time to share your comments and feedback … I appreciate it.

I agree with you about Ken’s “passion” and I have had many long and interesting conversations with him :slight_smile:

If the quilt layer is 2.5" I would certainly want to know the type and density of the quilting material because once there is 2" or more of lower quality/density or unknown material in the upper layers of a mattress (including the quilt layer) then it could certainly be a weak link in the mattress and I would avoid any mattress where you aren’t able to find out the information you need to make an informed choice.

I would agree with this as well and I would use a stronger foundation with a more evenly supportive surface.

Phoenix

The quilt layer I believe is mostly a cotton blend layer. They showed me the proccess, which was pretty cool.
I think finding the owner will be the key to answers.

Hi ejcrossl,

It’s unlikely that a 2.5" quilt layer wouldn’t contain any foam materials.

Phoenix

I went back to the description, and there are some details about it that I missed/forgot during my research.

THERE IS A 1" PIECE OF MEDIUM FIRM HIGH DENSITY FOAM TO SEAL THE SPRING UNIT

I assume this is to separate the springs from the latex which from what I understand is a good idea. I will see if I can get someone who can answer the density.

THE QUILT WHICH GOES ON TOP OF THE LATEX CONSISTS OF 1 1/4" SUPER SOFT FOAM, 1" OF DACRON 1/4" FIRE RETARDANT ( BY LAW). ABOVE THAT IS THE LUXURIOUS COTTON AND BAMBOO MATERIAL BLENDED TOGETHER FOR A SUPERIOR FEEL.

I am not sure what questions to ask about the quilt layer. The density of the foam? How about the cotton bamboo blend? Is 1 1/4" of foam in this layer of concern? That seems a little thick at this layer.

Hi ejcrossi,

If you can provide all the information described here with the specifics of each of the layers and components listed from top to bottom (making sure that they add up to the thickness of the mattress so that there isn’t anything missing) then I would be in a better position to make some meaningful comments about the quality/durability of the materials and whether the mattress as a whole has any potential weak links in the design.

Phoenix

When talking about foam density, I see the numbers in lbs. i.e. 1.8 lbs minimum. What is that number a measure of? Density would be in mass/volume. Are these reported measurements really 1.8 lbs/cubic in? /cubic ft?

Hi ejcrossi,

They are a measure of density which is weight per unit volume. In North America the most common measure is lbs/ft3 although in Europe density is normally expressed as kg/m3. In the industry they are most commonly referred to as a specific unit of density (such as 1.8 lb polyfoam or 4.0 lb memory foam) and the volume is left off. You will also see foam specified as four numbers such as 1535 and the first two numbers are the density (without the decimal point) and the second two numbers are the firmness expressed as IFD (indentation force deflection). Any knowledgeable manufacturer or retailer will know what you are referring to when you ask about foam densities and I would be very cautious in dealing with the ones that don’t.

Phoenix

Here are the answers I got:
The innerspring foam encasement is a density 44 (its essential a foam box that the innersprings sit in. I also acts a sturdy wall for the sides of the bed as well.)
The 1" piece between the innerspring and the latex comfort layer is density 28
The 1 1/4" piece of super soft in the quilt is 18
The innersprings are a pocket coil from Legget and Platt - 14 gauge ( I forgot to ask how many coils)

The conversation was weird, felt uncomfortable asking questions. I think they felt like I was trying to steal their manufacturing proprieties. I asked about the foundation being 7 1/4" in gap between slats, and he said that was the way he was taught 20 years ago, and it has never been a problem so they never changed. He did say he would make me one at 4" gaps no charge if that is what I wanted.

Not sure I understand what the 44, 28, and 18 densities are based on the information I have gathered on this site. I really liked the feel of their mattress, but getting an uncomfortable feeling based on my conversations with them.

Hi ejcrossl,

This isn’t a density number. I’m guessing that it’s the IFD (firmness) of the foam encasement but they should be able to tell you the density.

Again there is no 28 density and I doubt that it’s 2.8 lb polyfoam so this is probably an IFD number as well.

Given that they are giving you the IFD numbers for the other layers this is most likely 18 IFD as well and the density of the super soft polyfoam is probably in a lower density range.

If the gaps are 7 1/4" then there would likely be some type of cardboard over the slats to provide some support in between the slats. The IFD information you received isn’t really necessary because they are “comfort specs” and your body will tell you all you need to know about whether the mattress is soft or firm enough and whether it’s a good match for you in terms of PPP but the “quality specs” are important because they will tell you about the quality and durability of the materials and the mattress as a whole.

As well as I can piece the information you provided together the mattress you are looking at includes …

2.5" quilting layer which includes 1 1/4" of an unknown density of polyfoam (probably 18 IFD and low density) and another 1" of polyester fiber (which will also be subject to compression) and the 1/4" fire barrier. This could be a weak link in the mattress.

3" of latex This would be a good quality material but I would want to know the type and blend of the latex.

1" of polyfoam of unknown density (but probably an IFD or firmness level of 28 which is a medium firmness)

14 gauge pocket coil with an unknown number of coils and an unknown thickness. While I would want to know the basic information about the coils to make more meaningful comparisons (coil count and gauge) and the thickness so you can make sure you aren’t missing any layers in the mattress … the innerspring isn’t likely to be a weak link in the mattress.

Polyfoam edge support or “surround” that is probably an IFD of 44 but has an unknown density.

The cotton/bamboo blend would be a good quality material if these are the only types of fibers that are included in the fabric blend.

I would be uncomfortable with the information they gave you as well and it sounds like they may not be particularly familiar with the materials they are using or they aren’t willing to tell you the information you would need to make an informed choice. It certainly isn’t the complete specs that I would want to know and that would make more meaningful comparisons with other mattresses possible.

Phoenix

Arizona Premium Mattress Company it is. I got the soft all latex model. Ken was great and worked through my schedule issues.
Thank you for all of your input, and this vast source of knowledge.
Just don’t tell my wife I spent more…

Hi ejcrossl,

[quote]Arizona Premium Mattress Company it is. I got the soft all latex model. Ken was great and worked through my schedule issues.
Thank you for all of your input, and this vast source of knowledge.
Just don’t tell my wife I spent more… [/quote]

I promise I won’t tell her!

You certainly made a great quality/value choice … and congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback when you receive it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix