Help with latex mattress please! Bad back pain! (Sleep On Latex)

Hi everyone and happy new year! New member/longtime reader here. This website is such a wonderful resource for consumers. Thank you to everyone who makes it possible :slight_smile: So here’s my question…

I recently bought a Sleep On Latex medium mattress.

Please note, they updated the construction of their medium recently, and the new version that I have consists of 4" of their firm dunlop on the bottom, 2" of their medium dunlop in the middle, and 2" of their soft dunlop on the top.

I’m currently using the mattress directly on a wooden floor.

I’m a 6’ tall guy, about 150 lbs.

I fall asleep on my side and the mattress feels good for side sleeping.

Though if the mattress were ANY firmer at all, I would definitely experience painful pressure points on my shoulder and hip while side sleeping. But luckily, the mattress is just soft enough that I can sleep on my side without pressure points.

The problem I’m having with the mattress is sleeping on my back.

While I start out sleeping on my side, I will always wind up rolling over onto my back in my sleep, and then I wake up in pretty severe lower back pain on this medium sleep on latex. (More so than I was experiencing on a standard spring mattress that was way too old and very much in need of replacement. I’ve been on the Sleep On Latex for a few weeks now. And pretty much wake up with this severe lower back pain every day.)

When I complained about the lower back pain to sleep on latex, they initially suggested adding their 2" soft dunlop latex topper. But this doesn’t make much sense to me, A, because the top layer of the mattress is already 2" of their soft dunlop latex, and B, because my back feels fine when I lay on the floor on a thin yoga mat. I would assume my lower back probably hurts on the mattress because the mattress is too soft?

When I told Sleep On Latex that I’m pain free on a yoga mat on the floor, they suggesting adding their firm topper instead, but that definitely won’t work, because if the mattress were any firmer at all, I would never be able to sleep on my side.

Any suggestions/advice would be tremendously appreciated.

I’m wondering if I might be better off getting rid of the mattress and just doing a 6" build consisting of a Sleep on Latex 3" Firm Dunlop Latex topper as the base, and a Sleep on Latex 3" Soft Dunlop on top. Would that potentially be better for my purposes than the 8" mattress configuration I currently have.

Thank you in advance for any/all thoughts/suggestions/input.

Hi MattressNewb2024,

Glad to have you, Happy New Year and nice of you to be a long time reader.

My first question is what pillow are you using?

When you sleep on your side, you are probably getting the contouring and pressure relief you prefer and enjoy due to the natural curves to human body. Since you are tall and thin, BMI is fairly low.

There really should not be much of an issue when you roll to your back, although, I am a strong believer (remember everyone is different, so the classic rules dont always apply) that a back sleeper will prefer a firmer flatter surface, especially someone who is not bottom or top heavy.

Clearly this option below, is not an option that I thought was available.

  • My first attempt at a solution here would be to switch the top and middle layers. Literally, just flip them. When gravity is pulling us down and we are on our sides, you would naturally expect shoulders and hips to depress more and the softness of the 2" dunlop will accommodate for that. Leaving the bottom for the support and middle for support and additional contouring.

  • If you move the middle to the top and top to the middle, the middle layer despite being softer now, will still be supported by the bottom, and hopfully the new medium firm as the top layer will support your back better than the previous soft layer that was on top.

  • My only issue with this set up is, how long will it last! I would suggest that while it will probably work initially, gravity always wins. Your shoulder and hips may cause the *now new middle layer to break down a bit faster and cause a dip in the top layer.

  • This configuration is just to test what will make your back sleeping more comfortable. If it works, I would stick with the firm support layer and two medium layers, perhaps with the top layer at 3" in order to create a surface that will be more friendly to the side sleeping.

  • Now you could try removing the 2" layer altogether as a trial, and go with the firm support and medium comfort and see how that feels although that might come in a bit firm.

Keep in mind that falling asleep on your side may only encompass a 15-20 minute span of time, so the Medium, Medium Firm (support) just may work as you are not spending that much time on your side.

I know the yoga mat thing may seem OK temporarily, but I view it as anecdotal, you are not sleeping on it an entire night.

The other question I have is, why is this system directly on the floor? Reason being, you ’ want to develop mold under your mattress (nothing to do with support issues, although the floor will create the firmest version of your system). Perhaps using something under the system like Hypervent or Hypur Flo Moisture protection

I think your last suggestion of the 3" firm under the 3" soft will be too soft for your back sleeping. Most folks prefer a firmer surface when sleeping on their back, so I am not so certain that will work as it may prove to be too soft.

Back to the pillow. You may want to consider a pillow like the Tempurpedic Symphony TP Symphony. It doesn’t have to be tempurpedic specifically, but I like the idea of a two sided pillow, one side with a little more loft for side sleeping and the other side having a flat low loft for back sleeping.

Hopefully, you now have a plan in place and a direction to move towards.

Look forward to getting some feedback after you try!


*I just noticed on the SoL site, they are only using pre built systems.
Their Medium is a 4" Firm, 2" Medium and 2" soft.
Their Firm is 6" Firm and 2" Medium.

The concept is still the same. The route to get there is just a bit different.

Those SoL layers are not interchangeable. So we have to recreate the plan.
Adding a medium topper to their medium mattress system, will offer a similar effect as I described initially, but I still have the issue with the soft top comfort layer not being supportive enough for the long haul, with a medium topper on top of it. Although, the one thing you have in your favor here is your lower BMI, so there will be less wear and tear into the mattress.

If you were to switch to their firm mattress version and add a 3" medium topper, it may provide the firmness you need for your “sleeping on your back”, and the side pressure relief needed for the side sleeping.

Sorry for the confusion. I mistook that their layers could be changed.

While sleep on latex is a fine company, @Arizona_Premium can build you a mattress with changeable layers should you experience issues where swapping a layer may solve a problem, plus they offer Talalay latex options too. Talalay is a bit more uniform in density throughout its respective layer. So the support factor (ILD rating at 25% vs 65% depression into the tested slab layer of latex) of Talalay is a bit less than that of Dunlop. The deeper you depress into the Talalay, the less firm it will feel as compared to the Dunlop, the difference is marginal, but may be enough to satisfy both the side start and the back sleep finish.

Hi Norm! Thank you so much for your detailed and informative reply. To respond to your questions –

PILLOW - I’m using a Dunlop latex pillow from Coyuchi. It feels like it’s a good height for side sleeping (about 4.5" probably), but it is definitely too much height for laying on my back.

That said, I’ve tested lying on my back on the current Sleep On Latex Medium Mattress with no pillow at all, and I still have the lower back pain in this instance too. (The lower back pain doesn’t start immediately… it probably wouldn’t kick in for an hour if I had to guess.)

PUTTING MATTRESS ON FLOOR - I emailed extensively with Sleep On Latex about using their mattress directly on the floor, and they claim it’s perfectly fine on the floor and they claim it won’t develop mold due to the latex being an open cell structure and naturally mold resistant material. Do you disagree with this?

Are you familiar with coconut coir pads? (Trying to do things all natural if possible as I have some chemical sensitivities.)

Do you think a coconut coir pad between the mattress and the floor would be effective and accomplish the same thing as the Hypervent or Hypur Flo Moisture Protection you mentioned?

Based on Sleep On Latex’s claims do you think something like a coconut coir pad is necessary? Or can I believe Sleep On Latex when they say their mattresses and toppers can be used directly on the floor with no chance of mold?

Sleep On Latex actually recommends a totally solid platform surface more so than they recommend slats. I’ve always found this to be a bit odd, as I always thought mold was a concern without proper ventilation.

PLATFORMS - All of that said, I’d ultimately like to get the mattress raised off the floor. But first I’d like to find a comfortable mattress!

To get off the floor using all natural materials I suppose the only option wood be one of the natural wood slatted platforms or platform beds with less than 3" between the slats? Though I am concerned that any slatted surface will have less support for my back than the floor?

CURRENT BUILD - As you mentioned in your follow up, the layers inside a Sleep On Latex mattress are actually glued together using some sort of latex adhesive, so unfortunately I can’t do a test of flipping the 2" soft top layer and 2" medium middle layer with one another.

Do you think it would be a worthwhile test for my back to flip the mattress upside down and try sleeping (temporarily) with 4" of firm on top, 2" of medium in middle, and 2" of soft on bottom, or would this just be way too firm to fall asleep on my side?

My mattress is still returnable by the way.

NEXT BUILD TO TRY - Since you feel that having a Sleep On Latex soft layer as the top layer will be too soft to alleviate my lower back pain, what would you think of my trying a final build consisting of a 3" base layer of Sleep On Latex firm with 3" of Sleep On Latex medium on top? Do you think this 6" build would be sufficient?

Or… do you think there’s a chance that 3" of Sleep On Latex medium could be enough by itself? What does the 3" firm layer beneath it accomplish that the floor itself wouldn’t accomplish? (This might be a stupid question, but hey, that’s why they call me the Mattress Newb :slight_smile:

COMFORT - Prior to this I slept on an old cheap traditional spring mattress with several thick mattress pads and maybe a 1" memory foam topper. I really do love that feeling of sinking into softness when going to sleep on my side. Is there any sort of soft “sink in” top comfort layer worth trying that won’t aggravate lower back pain once I’ve rolled over onto my back? Or is it best (for the sake of my lower back) to persevere without such a layer? (Currently using a fairly thin mattress pad that doesn’t do much of anything.)

And I will look into Arizona Premium Mattress as well. Thanks for the tip :slight_smile:

Really appreciate your help/guidance!

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Hey MattressNewb2024

That is great that you recognize the loft/height issue regarding the pillow. Since you mostly sleep on your back, I would focus on a lower profile pillow for your back sleeping. Coyuchi offers a couple of pillows, a solid core and a shredded. The shredded can be modified, so if you are comfortable with their product, it could be an option. I dont like the idea of no pillow, even on your back. Think of the pillow as a mini mattress for your head. You have important stuff going on in there, you want it resting on something that is soft, conforming and supportive. The pillow offers you the ability to move it into various positions, close to your shoulders, just under your head, under your head and neck, for some a place to rest their arm under if a side or stomach sleeper. So, I say stick with a pillow.

Look, I am not here to tell you SoL is not correct. I just don’t like the answer. I have seen folks post pictures of their mattresses, Dunlop, Talalay, Blended, Natural, Organic, and Synthetic all with mold growth. When mold grows on your shower wall, it is not penetrating the porcelain tile ( it will however penetrate your grout if not properly treated), but it can grow on the surface.

Your mattress is no different. Mold is a type of fungal growth that needs a moist and warm environment to thrive. A mattress on the floor is subject to create mold on the surface at the very least, even if it doesn’t penetrate into the foam. If the floor is cold and the room is warm, no circulation under the mattress, you just created a potential wet weather pattern. My advise create an environment where air can circulate and the temperature is neutralized.

Of course you could ask them, if mold does grow on the bottom of the mattress due to a moisture build up, even if it doesn’t “penetrate” foam, will they pay to remediate it or replace it! I mean they are suggesting it can be on the floor and since latex is open cell, you should be fine, right?

Yes a coir pad should allow enough circulation to reduce the chance of mold. I found this and coir is one of the recommendations Floor Bed Mold Prevention.

I randomly picked this as they are a trusted member, but I am sure there are many out there Natural wood foundation, <3" slats.

Yes! I would definitely try it. Think about it this way. If this were a flippable mattress, you could conceivably flip it as you suggest and add one more layer of your comfort choice and create a “real” flippable mattress. Of course there is the wool batting layer(doubling as a fire retardant) just below the cover/panel, but it has marginal affect on the feel. Plus there could be options there too. {you could get a 2" topper and a 3" zippered topper cover and buy a layer of 1/2 to 1" of wool or cotton batting and insert the topper and batting in the zippered topper cover and that becomes the flip side of your current mattress} Remember this is a test. You are flipping your current mattress to test for side and back sleeping on the firmer dunlop layer. “This is only a Test” (Sorry I had to, it is not an emergency broadcast system).

Interesting you like that soft sink in feeling. If you scroll back up to the zippered topper creation, 2" latex and up to 1" of wool or cotton batting, you could substitute the latex with a quality viscoelastic memory foam or something like this Serenity by Tempur Pedic . Be sure it is at least 4 or 5lb density for durability and longevity purposes as it may create the perfect flip side of your SoL mattress. This topper is fairly budget friendly and you dont have to think about anything except opening it up and rolling it on top your mattress.

A 3" layer will be more plush than a 2" layer of dunlop latex. The floor will just allow the layer to be more stiff as there is no give under the layer.

You have some options. @Arizona_Premium or other trusted members could help you build something. If it gets to the point where you return the SoL, they can offer something with changeable layers, so if something is not quite right you can do some experimenting. Many of the options to DIY like @Arizona_Premium and @Latex_Mattress_Fact1 not only have Dunlop options, but have Talalay options as well.

I guess you have some testing to do. Good luck and follow up with your results.

Thanks Norm! Will definitely give these tests a try and report back. In the meantime, would love your thoughts on my one other question…

Could a 3" Firm Sleep On Latex Topper, with a 3" Medium Sleep On Latex Topper placed on top of it, make for a good 6" mattress that might be all I need? Or is 6" not enough?

Is there a chance that the 3" Medium Topper alone placed directly on the floor could be an adequate sleeping surface? Or do you need that 3" of Firm beneath it?

Regarding mold, I read the article you linked to and now I’m concerned haha

If the mattress is placed on a coconut coir pad or a tatami mat, do you still need to try and air the mattress out periodically? (It’s really way too heavy to be trying to roll up and air out!)

Last question… if the mattress is on a slatted foundation, is that adequate to prevent mold in and of itself, or do you still need a coconut coir pad or something of the like under the mattress?

Thank you so much for your help!!!

Hey MN,

Sure that is a possibility, but then you would need to buy a nice cover, possibly add a layer of wool batting for FR issues. That is why someone like @Arizona_Premium seems more appealing in this regard. They can build it as a “mattress” with all the appropriate configurations and FR requirements to take that worry away from you. But from the standpoint of it working, yes it could work. If we think about flipping the SoL and adding a medium topper, it is close to the same feel, I would say the 6" may be a bit more firm with regard to the two scenarios.

So, here is my take, as I accidentally experienced something similar, but not quite exactly the same.

A while ago, sometime around 1 or 2 PC (pre covid) I bought a 3"
tempurpedic topper for our previous 11 year old Sealy Posturepedic Ultra Firm Pillowtop. (I should have known better, actually I did know better, just stubborn).
The wife hated it, Swallowed her like a slow sinking, heat producing, quicksand pond. I bought a 3" zippered topper encasement cover and thought I was a star! Not! Bad idea! After a month or two of complaining, I put it on the floor in the finished basement and just for fun, lied on it. I immediately called my wife downstairs, and said, lie down on this. The feel was completely different from when it was on the mattress. It was actually not bad. Better than a sleeping bag, maybe even better than one of those $99 air mattress’s. I would not attempt a belly flop on it, but as a resting place, it was much better than the floor.

I suppose a 3" Latex topper alone may produce the same experience but with a little better support. Still, please no belly flopping!!!

My issue with this is, it is basically a futon of sorts. When someone designs a mattress, it consists of those three basic components. A support layer, comfort layer, and cover/panel layer. Each with their own functional responsibility to satisfy your PPP’s. Placing a low profile slab of latex or any other component material, really does not accomplish that. At least in the traditional sense and doesn’t necessarily match up with your PPP’s. For a certain type of individual, it may work great, but I suspect for more most mortals, not so much.

So the article I sent you regarding mold, was a completely random 1 minute search on the web. I am sure I could have found the same information in our tutorials, but this article came up fast and easy. Plus, it offered someone else’s take on the subject, so we are not alone here. The coconut coil pad should be enough to protect the mattress on the floor, trusted member- @BioSleepConcept and look at Coconut Coil Pad and Features. The slatted foundation should work as long as there is air circulation below, at least a couple of inches. You can even use a coir on the foundation for complete circulation of the mattress bottom.

Hope this helps!


Based on Sleep On Latex’s claims do you think something like a coconut coir pad is necessary? Or can I believe Sleep On Latex when they say their mattresses and toppers can be used directly on the floor with no chance of mold?

Long story short. Over a year ago I started using a shikifuton directly on the floor. A Japanese friend of mine urged me to get either a tatami mat ($$$) or something else to prevent mold. I got the 1" Coir pad ($), gave up the shiki which didn’t work for me. I switched to my daughter’s 6" medium talalay mattress (with a SOL cover) and then a 2" talalay topper. Before posting this reply i double checked under my setup. No mold. Never has been

Get the coir pad if your set up is on the floor.

Btw, Sol has the very best topper covers. My talalay topper has their cover on it.

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Thank you, Norm! Ordered a 3" medium topper from sleep on latex today. Will experiment and report back. Really appreciate your help!

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Thank you, Hester! Do the coconut coir pads have any odor? I am very sensitive to scents and anything that smells the slightest bit “chemical” can really be an issue.

Also, can you use the coir pad directly on a wooden floor, or will it scratch the floor?

Do you know if queen size coir pads come in 1 piece or 2 pieces?

And last question… would you happen to know what brand actually manufactures these coir pads? It appears that nearly every online store is selling the same one (or at least using the same photos), but I’m not sure as to who actually makes it. Which one did you buy?

Appreciate it!

So, mine had no odor and I ordered a full size. However, they are 1/2" thickness, so if you order then you get two 1/2" high pieces that are glued together. Mine is on the wooden floor directly and no scratches. I got mine from The Futon Shop. But their return policy is abysmal, so I would NOT suggest using The Futon Shop.

If I may say something about Sleep on Latex. I adore them, the customer service, the return policy. I know about them because I needed something after surgery when I was non weight bearing for 6 weeks (Lisfranc injury, Right foot) and had to sleep on a very hard sofa in my LR. My topper was here in 2 days. Amazing service. So I love them and their topper covers imho are the best on the market.

But… they do only Dunlop. In the end after back and forth and back and forth, the Dunlop topper on my shiki didn’t work for me. I am mostly a stomach sleeper and like you I fall asleep on my side, but end up on my tummy, not back. I’m not as thin as you but have a non-fat BMI…I’m 5’3" and low 130s. I ended up with a Talalay topper that has made me so happy. If this new topper doesn’t work for you, try Talalay.

Dunlop (for me) pushes against me, Talalay says hi and cushions me without force.
Oh, one more thing… SOL Dunlop is more firm than most other companies Dunlop. They told me that when I was struggling.

Good Luck

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Great information! Extremely valuable. I was taking notes!

I was taking notes!


Hey guys! I know it’s been a while, but my mattress saga continues…

As previously mentioned, I had purchased a Sleep On Latex medium mattress which consists of 4" of their firm dunlop on the bottom, 2" of their medium dunlop in the middle, and 2" of their soft dunlop on the top.

It felt okay for falling asleep on my side, but then when I’d wake up on my back I found that it was causing severe lower back pain. (When I used to sleep on a normal spring mattress I’d have slight back pain compared to the severe back pain I’m experiencing with an all latex build.)

So I ordered a 3" medium dunlop topper from Sleep On Latex and put it on top of their medium mattress. At first this improved my back pain, while making it slightly harder to fall asleep on my side. But soon the back pain returned.

Currently I’m sleeping on 3" of firm dunlop from Sleep On Latex (bottom layer) with 3" of medium dunlop from Sleep On Latex on top of it. This 6" build is obviously quite firm, and while it is a bit more difficult to fall asleep on my side, the first couple of nights I woke up with zero back pain (even when sleeping on my back). But then the back pain returned!

I’m not sure a bed could be much firmer than this current 6" configuration, so why does it cause lower back pain after a while of lying on my back?

I’m considering adding this top layer to my current configuration:

It’s supposed to be a thin soft talalay layer with some wool and cotton as well.

Do you think this would be a good build? (i.e. 3" of firm Sleep On Latex dunlop on bottom, 3" of medium Sleep On Latex dunlop in the middle, and the Birch talalay/wool layer on top?)

I need something soft enough to fall asleep on my side, that won’t cause lower back pain when I wind up sleeping hours on my back.

I’m wondering if I just won’t be able to accomplish this with latex and if I will ultimately need to cave and go back to a spring mattress.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Really appreciate it!

Any suggestions based on my update below?

I just don’t understand why I’d experience severe lower back pain from sleeping on my back on 6" of latex (3" of Sleep On Latex firm dunlop on the bottom + 3" of Sleep On Latex medium dunlop on the top). I would think that a setup that firm would alleviate back pain, but I still experience the exact same lower back pain I experienced when I was sleeping on 8" (4" firm on bottom, 2" medium in middle, 2" soft on top). Has anyone else experienced this? Do I have to just go back to a spring mattress?

Any suggestions for manufacturers who sell natural talalay toppers that are fully returnable after a trial period? The only ones I’ve come across with trial periods are Birch and Avocado.


Hey MN,
it has been a while since we heard from you. Sorry to hear about your chronic lower back pain. Mattress topper talalay 3" 3 firmness levels 30 return policy
You are correct in questioning lower back pain on a firm mattress setup. I am not sure long term, a talalay or dunlop topper is going to change the pain source. In fact it may add to it.

Are you sinking into your current comfort layer or do you lie flat on top of the mattress? Everyone is different and for most a firm mattress keeping you in good alignment on your stomach or back should be a good combination. Side sleepers are a bit more nuanced.

Personally, I sleep on a very firm mattress and spend most of the night on my side without any issues. Recently, I added a 3-inch wool topper to my setup. I wanted to try it out so I could speak about it with firsthand experience—an expensive talking point, but useful for anyone curious about different topper materials. It turned out to be much better than the Malouf activedough/memory foam combo I initially had.

The wool topper is great because it doesn’t generate heat while you sleep. When you first lie on it, it feels very puffy, but it soon compresses to match the curves of your body, relieving pressure points and adding contouring without altering the mattress’s firmness. So, we still enjoy our preferred level of firmness.

Impressed with how the wool topper kept us cool, I conducted another experiment and bought a wool duvet insert. I placed it in a Coyuchi 100% cotton duvet cover that matched the color of our Tommy Bahama 100% cotton duvet cover and shams.

Our setup now includes the wool topper beneath us, the wool comforter above us, and a down comforter on top (both comforters inside duvet covers). You might think this would make us very hot, but it doesn’t! The wool dissipates our body heat, keeping us heat neutral under the covers. Surprisingly, we feel cooler than before we added the wool comforter.

During winter, we stayed warm, and now on hot days, we remain comfortable under the covers, even in a warm room without AC. Only our exposed areas feel warm. I often pull the entire cover system over my body up to my neck, arms under the blanket, and feel cooler than when my arms and upper body are exposed.

Sometimes, what seems logical doesn’t work out as expected.

I wonder if any arching, bending, or foundation issues might be causing your pain. What do you think could be the issue, considering this new perspective?

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Hi Norm. Thanks so much for the info! I really appreciate it.

To re-cap, I fall asleep on my side. Then roll over to my back.

My current sleep setup is still on the hardwood floor. So I know it’s well supported.

I’m sleeping on just a 3" Sleep On Latex firm dunlop (bottom) and a 3" Sleep On Latex medium dunlop (top).

That’s it. Just 6" of latex on the floor.

This should be firm enough to lay on my back without back pain, should it not?

To answer your question, I’d say I’m lying flat on top of the top layer. Maybe just minimal sinkage.

Do you think I should try reversing the order of my two layers (i.e. medium on the bottom, firm on top)?

Or should I perhaps try replacing the medium layer with a second firm layer?

I never had this level of lower back pain with a traditional spring mattress - even one that was very old and worn out. Is latex just not for me?

Also, I’m very interested in trying a wool layer. What brand did you purchase for your 3-inch wool topper and wool duvet?

With a 3-inch wool topper and wool duvet, I assume you have to periodically put them outside in the sun to avoid mold/mildew buildup? That’s my only hesitation to wool.

Really appreciate any insights/ideas you might have. Thanks!

Here the floor is uneven. I had to rebuild my base to accommodate for the floor. I think that might be an issue for some people?

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That can definitely be a recipe for discomfort!

Nice catch!

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Hi MattressNewb2024,

I wanted to respond to your questions about the wool topper and wool duvet. I’ll let Maverick tell you which brand he chose. But I wanted to mention that putting a wool duvet in the sun is usually quite helpful - it helps to revive the wool. We have had a wool duvet for 4 years - no trouble with mold. They are usually resistant to that kind of thing, as long as you don’t get them wet. Of course, you would need to follow the manufacturer’s instructions.

You can see some of our options for wool toppers here and wool duvets here, as well as a blog post about the properties of wool here.

Like Maverick, we sleep with a wool duvet year-round and find it extremely comfortable.

We wish you well as you search for that just-right bedroom setup. Let us know if we can help!

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before you go purchasing more toppers that you are not sure you need yet-try folding the ones you have & try that. I found when I tested (also on floor)the SOL 3" firm, with 3" med was too firm-HOWEVER-when I folded the 3" firm over itself for a 6" firm surface-it was LOVELY. I literally took a nap right then & there. I needed to remove their 3" medium from the equation. You can fold a 3" in 1/2 for 6", additionally you can put the med on top, or sandwich in the middle or put on bottom. This should give you a better idea of what you want to tweak.

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