How to look for and find the best mattress ... for YOU! ***READ FIRST***

[Brad123]

Hey CeruleanBlue,

Sorry you’re dealing with a similar painful situation. We’re trying to reframe (no pun intended) our views on the whole bed purchase process. We’re going to visit the Dormio showroom tonight and may well end up shelling out a boatload of money and (potentially) delaying a vacation by a year or two as a result. She has fairly severe scoliosis and my back hasn’t been “normal” since I started sleeping on her bed. If we spend $3,000 but sleep soundly, cooly, and pain-free for the next 10 years, seems like a bargain, really. If I were buying a new car, a new house, engagement ring, etc., I wouldn’t I wouldn’t be settling on something that’s “meh”, so I definitely shouldn’t be doing that with something that has a direct impact on my health.

Good luck to you. Will let you know what we end up opting for.

Thanks,
Brad

[jh101992]

Hi There,

I posted in a different topic but wanted to get some feedback on these two MFC mattresses. They are within my budget as well as a trusted member of the site so I wanted to look into getting more information on them. They are also Canadian which is a plus from me as this is where I live.

I am 5’10 170 lbs mainly stomach but also side sleeper. I have had the same spring mattress for a number of years that is beginning to sag. I would say because of the springs and being a stomach sleeper I would most likely prefer something on the stiffer side.

It seems like the HD or HR mattress with the firm option would be the best fit but I wanted to understand the difference in these two mattresses as well as if an additional topper may be required to be purchased as they only appear to be 6 inches thick.

Thanks

[Sensei]

Hey Brad123,

Thanks for the post. Let us know how it turned out at Dormio, you do very nice job “framing” the importance of the mattress purchase, especially given the medical and pain issues you and your partner have. Thanks again.

Sensie

[TwoCrows]

I just read your post, so this response may be too late. But Mayer’s Bedding uses a non-wool cover. Also a number of vendors offer what they call “vegan” mattresses such as Plush Beds Natural Bliss.

I hope you’re sleeping comfortably.

[Drackean]

Hey there,

I am still looking for help regarding post #431 wrote on July 27. I would appreciate advice from someone knowledgable.

Thank you!

[Sweet_Dreams]

@Drackean - I’m surprised and sorry that you haven’t received any response to your initial post but hopefully your nudge will help get it some attention… sometimes a particular post can get lost in an existing thread. First of all I have to say that the Albizia looks like a high quality build and I don’t see weak links of any real significance to raise concern. I agree that from the pictures provided your alignment on the current mattress looks pretty good although I’m an engineer by trade and not an orthopedic doctor. Given that I’d tend to suggest that proper alignment alone does not ensure that the mattress is providing you with adequate comfort and pressure relief. So even if you’re back is pretty well aligned by the foundational support layer of your mattress it may not still have sufficient support in its comfort layers which are generally the layers which wear out first. That could be the cause of your lower back discomfort, but it’s difficult to diagnose such situations over the internet. Sometimes the only way to really know is to try out a new mattress to see if it eliminates or at least reduces your discomfort. I did notice that it looks like you could use a new right sock, but I doubt that imbalance could be the cause of your back pain! Hope this helps a bit and that you get a more professional and specific response to your situation from another more knowledgeable forum member.
Best regards, - Bill

[Drackean]

Hi Sweet Dreams,

Hi appreciate your comment. Nice to have someone confirm my alignment seems OK, which is the way I feel it. Your suggestion that the comfort layer might be the cause of my issues sounds right, since the mattress is old and topped with some polyfoam (probably cheap) as far as I know, but I just can’t “feel” any pressure relief issue in the old mattress, which affects my confidence in trying new ones. Kind of analysis paralysis right know…

…and I do need new socks

[rp0475]

I have decided I am going to buy a new mattress online, as locally my options are 1) affordable mattresses of poor construction (I’m looking at you, S-brands), or very, very expensive organic latex mattresses. I’m considering several different latex hybrids at this point, and have already spent a great deal of time on this forum and talked to a few manufacturers.

I have had the opportunity to test a couple latex-spring hybrids (Savvy Rest, Berkeley Ergo) at my local store, but am not sure I’m sold yet on the latex-spring construction. Another option I see a lot online but have NOT been able to try myself, is a foam core with a latex comfort layer (such as the Dreamfoam Aspen or Willow). Are there are brands of mattresses with this type of construction that I would be likely to find locally? I understand it wouldn’t be a perfect comparison to what is available online, but it would still give me an idea of whether or not I like the foam/latex construction as opposed to spring/latex.

My mattress store options for actually getting to go lay on something just to get a feel for different construction types, are the high end organic stores that only sell latex/latex-spring hybrid, or your usual big box stores like Mattress Firm, Macy’s, etc.

[phoenix]

Hi rp0475,

­­­Thanks for the message and the update. I understand your issue with the S-brands and the higher-priced organic latex mattresses in your local area. It’s hard to say what some of the national brands would have on their floors locally. When I look at the mattress firm website obviously they can offer a greater variety of mattresses online than they do at each store location.

Mattress Firm, more than Macy’s, would mot likely be a better location to find a foam core with a latex comfort layer. That said, it is still difficult to find a foam mattress, with a substantial latex comfort layer at any national retail store. These companies tend to use the “essence of latex” and use maybe 1" of latex.

I would try Mattress Firm and tell them you want to try Memory Foam mattresses, then ask them if they have any memory foam with latex on top? If not latex on top then ask them if they have these with a faster recovery foam on top. Tell them you don’t want the “slow recovery” but you do want to try the all-foam mattresses. This may help you get “closer” to a comparison of the two, as they really are different feeling mattresses.

On top of my head, you can also try to find something similar to (11") The GhostBed Mattress ~ which is very good quality, comes close to your what you are looking and is priced very well. There are many others as well and you may want to check the filtered search through our mattress trusted members here for some more possible combos.

BTW …well done with research and working the comparisons at your local retailers.

I look forward to hearing what you found and how it feels for you.
Phoenix

[stmslpr]

Hi Phoenix, would just like your opinion on very firm beds. I had purchased a talalay latex bed recently and through a variety of different experimentation and trials i have a feeling that for whatever reason the latex seems to eventually succumb more and more (through the night) to the density of my torso and butt (and i think i sink a bit more than i’d like), yet is firm enough to keep my head and legs etc up thus really doing a number on, not only my low back but mid back too.

I have recently started to sleep directly on the carpeted floor and while not the most comfortable, my back is noticeably less stiff and sore. I am exchanging the 6" firm talalay core with a pocket spring coil system (European honeycomb nested pocket coils - steel, wrapped in polypropylene; a high performance, durable, breathable, moisture-wicking, non-toxic fabric Coil Counts: 1,484 Queen Size 1,908 King Size) in it’s place and hope it feels better (old spring mattresses i have, while not as comfy, don’t seem to “succumb” to my body as much).

However, I have some “firm” mattresses lined up in case the coil exchange experiment doesn’t work out. Saatva (Firm or luxury firm), Winkbed, dreamcloud, avacado, purple etc. Some are innerspring, some are foam or hybrids. There’s even one i’m eyeing called The “Hard Bed”. Not sure if you’ve heard of it. Just wondering if you have an opinion on those beds (especially Saatva, Winkbed and Dreamcloud).

I’ve spent a fair chunk of change so far but chalking it up to a learning experience. But i do hope to get it “right” without to much more damage to the bank account. I’m not a big guy (5’9", 165-170lbs) so i didn’t assume i’d need a very firm and unyielding mattress but it is looking like it’s kind of trending that way. I used to mainly sleep on my stomach and still prefer to but and trying to do more side and back sleeping as per my physio’s request. i would say i’ll eventually become a combo sleeper with go to still being stomach.

thanks!

[Mima18]

Hi! I am new to the latex mattress world. My husband and I narrowed our search to two beds, both 3" top layer of latex (cushion firm) and an individual pocketed coil system. This is the EOS classic by Naturepedic and then there is a similar one called SMARTHOUSE, designed by an HGTV couple.
Two Questions: 1. What is the difference? 2. There is a small reliable company called Organic Mattress that sells both, but we were concerned that if we decide on the Naturepedic one, should we purchase it directly from Naturepedic for the warranty etc? The small store says there are 20 year guarantees on both.

[Sweet_Dreams]

@Mima18 - I have no direct experience of either mattress, but as far as the warranty of Naturepedic it is clearly posted here on their website. It states: “Who and what does this Warranty cover? This Warranty is not transferable and only covers you if you are the original purchasing consumer and owner of the EOS (“Product”) and purchased it directly from Naturepedic or from an authorized dealer.” Looking over the retailers on the Naturepedic site you should verify that yours is listed as an authorized dealer.

[phoenix]

Hi stmslpr,

Sorry to hear that the Talalay latex bed is not working out for you. The coil bed descriptions sound great, do you recall the brand name? What are the comfort layers for this coil mattress? It really makes a great difference when discussing any of these mattresses that we are able to get as much information about the specifications as possible, then it is much better to offer any guidance.

As far as other brands go, while I can certainly help with “how” to choose … It’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own personal preferences).

That said, there are some threads on the mattresses you mentioned that you might find helpful here:

Avocado Mattress consumer experiences and questions [/url ]thread
[url=https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/winkbeds]Winkbeds mattress consumer experiences and questions
Saatva mattresses consumer experiences and questions
Dreamcloud mattress search

Let us know if you have more questions.
Phoenix

[Mima18]

Thank you, Sweet Dreams. Organic Mattress did come up on the list. The bed was less expensive and the delivery options were better. I AM HOPING That someone who reads this has experience with these beds…I have not heard anything yet.

[stmslpr]

Thanks Phoenix! The brand is Berkeley Ergo. The initial bed I got was the Amsterdam:
Layers from top to bottom:
100% Organic Cotton outer fabric
100% Plein-Air French wool quilted to inside of outer fabric
Plein-Air - These sheep live outdoors year-round
Produces a more curly, longer fibre
Superior to mechanically crimped wool, does not matte down as easily
2" 100% Natural Talalay latex topper
Soft for buffering pressure points in hips and shoulders
Manufactured by Radium Foam BV in The Netherlands
6" 100% Natural Talalay latex core
7-zoned for correct ergonomics and pressure relief
Choice of Medium or Firm core
Queen and King size available with a different firmness for each sleeping partner
Manufactured by Radium Foam BV in The Netherlands

I had the soft 2" talalay layer on the top.
Basically after a variety of self tweeks I finally decided to change the 6" firm core with those springs I had described and turn it essentially into a Berkeley Malmo:

Layers from top to bottom:
100% Organic Cotton outer fabric
100% Plein-Air French wool quilted to inside of outer fabric
Plein-Air - These sheep live outdoors year-round
Produces a more curly, longer fibre
Superior to mechanically crimped wool, does not matte down as easily
2" 100% Natural Talalay latex
Manufactured by Radium Foam BV in The Netherlands
European honeycomb nested pocket coils - steel, wrapped in polypropylene; a high performance, durable, breathable, moisture-wicking, non-toxic fabric
Coil Counts:
1,484 Queen Size
1,908 King Size

I contacted the manufacturer and supposedly the coil thickness is 1.4mm which was supposed to be 15 gauge. I was a bit skeptical at first but after two nights with the springs it’s definitely more “supportive” than the 6" firm latex core which is odd because everyone told me the latex core should be firmer and more supportive. I’m definitely sinking less into the springs than I was when the latex core was in. I mentioned this in another post but to me, with the springs in it feels more like the mattress is a plump ripe piece of fruit with more turgid pressure pushing up into the peel/skin (the 2" latex topper) and keeping me up noticeably more than when the 6" firm core was in as the support layer. For me when the 6" latex was in it felt more like a dried piece of fruit without the same turgidity, and while still firm, did not stop me from sinking in too much into a firm hard stopping point putting my spine out of alignment.

Again it’s only 2 night but it’s somewhat better with the coils. The back is still stiffer than I’d like and I’m considering seeing if I can make another tweek to keep me more afloat and less sinkage. I don’t know whether to a) switch the soft latex layer for a firm latex topper, b) switch the soft latex layer for a memory foam layer:
2" Belgian Viscoelastic Memory Foam
Open cell, breathable fast response memory foam for supreme pressure relief
4 lb density
Not sensitive to temperature like traditional memory foam
Layer Made in Belgium
Or c) change the springs for firmer springs, like the ones in the Berkeley Berlin mattress (just found out about this a couple days ago):
European honeycomb nested pocket coils - steel, wrapped in polypropylene; a high performance, durable, breathable, moisture-wicking, non-toxic fabric
Taller springs are 6 ¼"
Shorter springs are 5"
Choice of three firmness options:
Plush model features 2.0 and 1.4 mm springs w/ soft latex on top
Firm model features 2.1 and 1.4 mm springs w/ soft latex on top
Extra Firm model features 2.1 and 1.4 mm springs w/ firm latex on top
Coil Counts:
1,127 Queen Size
1,530 King Size

I hope they’ll allow for another tweek with no additional costs but we’ll see. I think it’ll be a toss up between trying the memory foam and the new Berlin springs (which should be firmer than the Malmo springs). I laid on the Berkeley London (which is basically the malmo with the memory foam on the top instead of the latex) and it seemed to feel more rigid and supportive with less sinkage (though only lying on it for a few mins does not represent what happens overnight).
Would you think the memory foam with the 4lb density would be more supportive and keep my more “on top” of the mattress than either the soft or firm talalay latex topper?

Maybe all the issues are the latex form me. It’s comfy but maybe somehow my body rejects it or doesn’t have the right supportive feel for me? Because it’s weird…. one of the earlier tweeks I tried with the Amsterdam was putting a soft cheap foam topper on top of the Amsterdam and it seemed to feel a bit better (still not good) which doesn’t make sense because it would make the mattress softer and more sinkage.

Anyway thus far the mattress company I’ve dealt with has been pretty good, allowing me to swap the latex core for the springs and giving me back some money as the Malmo is cheaper than the Amsterdam. I’d just like to get it right and better with as few tweeks as possible to save them and myself the trouble. I’ll probably give it a bit more time on this Malmo configuation before I make a decision.

I have gone and tried out cheaper mattresses (Ikea Haugesand), Kingsdown (Ace TT), Springwall, Setrta sensations iii etc and i definitely felt more “on top” and afloat on the more supportive mattresses and they were significantly cheaper. Hard to say if they would be a better choice as far as how it would feel and perform on a full nights sleep as opposed to lying on it for a few mins. And their durability is an issue likely. Plus it’d be nice to make the current mattress i bought work since i spent a pretty penny on it.

I also have to figure out the foundation which I also bought from them: Berkeley Eronomic Suspension Foundation. Bowed adjustable tension slat foundation. After the first couple weeks I took the mattress off the foundation and I’ve been sleeping with mattress on the floor (with variation of tweeks I mentioned) for the last 3-4 weeks, and it felt noticeably better as well. Not exactly sure why.

Thanks again, that’s all I can think of for now, any suggestions or info would be great!

[Sensei]

Hey stmslpr,

Hey thanks for the detail in your post. Berkely Ergo products, very well known and high-quality products.

it’s definitely more “supportive” than the 6" firm latex core which is odd because everyone told me the latex core should be firmer and more supportive…

This is interesting but not that surprising (Berk firm talalay core ild?). Phoenix has a post about it - differences latex core vs innerspring post#2 that discusses some of the technical differences.

Would you think the memory foam with the 4lb density would be more supportive and keep my more “on top” of the mattress than either the soft or firm talalay latex topper?

This is interesting as I think I know this Belgian foam, with the fast response, did you feel the foam itself or see it? It’s light blue or it was light blue. It is very nice “memory foam” and really makes the answer to this question more difficult. And really it’s more of a “you” question, as everyone could have a different preference.

Your descriptions are very robust, for the 8" Talalay mattress, which is high quality, but different…and not everyone. The zoning is cool looking, but as a core, one cant feel the different zones. Did you have an additional 2" Talalay topper on top of the Amsterdam?

It sounds like your getting close, and the coil move worked so far. Let us know any other questions I am sure I missed something.

Thanks,
Sensei

[stmslpr]

Thanks Sensei!

I can tell the product from Berkeley is of good quality which was why I was willing to gamble and go with them. And the retailer has been good as well thus far. Hoping they might be able to do the soft latex topper swap with potentially the memory foam for free though. I did spend quite a bit for the mattress etc.

According to Berkeley the firm latex core was an ILD of 33 and the soft topper is an ILD of 18.

And yes I’m collecting even more information after sleeping on the 6 inch pocket coils with 2 inch soft latex on top (mattress on the floor) this past week. I’m starting to come to a hypothesis that maybe my muscles/frame etc does not react well to the latex. After about 6 weeks of this new mattress (with my back stiffness and soreness being worse than on my old saggy pillow top coil mattress) I think maybe the latex foam is too…. Lively? Bouncy? Reactive? I think I’m just used to (or is better for my body) or prefer the “deadness” of whatever foam was/is in the pillowtops or even a few memory foam mattresses I’ve briefly slept on in air bnbs or hotels.

It’s hard to tell but maybe (?) it kind of feels like the latex is fighting my weight on it and then maybe my body is fighting it back causing me to be contracted and tight? Hard to say, but my low back and pelvis (upper ridge) has been super stiff, weak feeling and sore and had a fair amount of rib pain. It’s something I would assume only happens if the mattress is too soft and you sink in and not because it’s too firm. I mean I do sink into the soft talalay top but I can’t imagine it’d be worse than the sinking I had with my old pillowtop. Which is why you see my confusion of wonder if it’s too soft or too firm right from the start. Almost feels/felt at times, especially when the firm latex core was in, that my heavy parts was able to sink in a bit much into a firm stopping point and the light parts of me were held up accentuating that mid-section arching.

So basically I’ve noticed that just sleeping on the hard carpeted floor made my back feel somewhat better (for sure “firmer” than any mattress) and putting a cheap (non latex) foam topper on top of the 8 inch mattress was also a bit better. Can I conclude that no latex or being further away from it is why I felt a bit better? Maybe the mattress now with the springs in as the support is a bit better for me because there’s less of that lively rubber to “fight against”?

I can fully understand why people love latex and it feels great and seemingly supportive when I lay on it for a while but overnight it wears me down or SOMETHING and I get super sore and stiff.

I think I remember the Belgian foam was beige (maybe a blue tint?). I did lay on it for a bit and I think it had a more “dead” feel compared to the lively latex. I just have no idea if I would sink too much or if it would get super hot overnight after hours on it.

It was suggested that I try actually putting the soft latex topper on the BOTTOM of the mattress and the 6 inch coils on top (directly underneath the cover, mattress protector and bed sheets) and try sleeping on it that way to see how things feel. Everything is still on the floor as it seems/ed to feel better with it off of the suspension foundation 3 weeks ago. He said it wouldn’t harm the mattress in that configuration and if it feels better maybe get some thin foam to place on top of the coils after or maybe the Belgian foam.

I think it’s probably close to the last option try before I might have to consider a completely new mattress. I’m hoping it is just the feel and “action” of the latex and getting rid of it might do the trick.

Thanks again! Hoping i can figure this out sooner than later. The back/body would be thankful.

[rp0475]

Hi Phoenix, thanks for the info you’ve provided thus far. I just got back from visiting my parents for a week, and they had added a 2" soft talalay latex topper to their standard S-brand guest room mattress that I had previously mentioned was too firm on my last visit - it made the bed feel soooo much better! At this point I’m convinced I do want a latex hybrid, but am still trying to choose which one. I pretty much have it narrowed down to one of the below four:

• Arizona Premium Ultimate Hybrid (zoned coils)
• Arizona Premium EcoSleep
• Luma Natural Hybrid
• Luma Hybrid Slumber System (zoned coils)

I’m stuck on whether or not the firmer center zone of the Ultimate Hybrid and the Slumber System would be a positive or negative for me. I’ve read conflicting information on two different articles here on TMU. In your “Putting the layers together” article, you say of the firmer center zoning, “Men in particular with wider shoulders and chests than hips may do well with this. Those with wider hips but more normal weight will likely not do well with this zoning scheme as their hips need to sink down further in proportion to the shoulder to accommodate their width and help with alignment.”

However, in your “Tips and Tricks” article, you say the opposite: “If you carry a lot of weight in your hips and/or have heavy/wide hips, especially with thinner shoulders, then a zoned mattress core that is firmer under your hips may be very helpful.”

I am a side sleeper, 5’2" and 130lbs, petite build with a thin frame, narrow shoulders and narrow ribcage, but curvy bust and hips. My hips are wider than my shoulders. I’ve briefly chatted with both Ken (AP) and Tomas (Luma) over email, and was surprised they each recommended something different in terms of zoning. One recommended it, one did not. It’s so hard not getting to try these out in store, and I don’t want to have to send back another mattress like I did with the Purple 3. I’m trying to get a better sense of whether or not I should be considering the zoning. My biggest problem with mattresses that are too firm are 1) pressure point on the hips…whichever side I’m laying on has a very sore hip when I wake up, and 2) scrunched shoulders because my thin shoulders don’t sink in far enough. Issue #1 makes me think zoning would be bad…why would I want to add more pressure under my hips? Issue #2 makes me think maybe zoning would be good…once my wider hips have properly sunk in, maybe the zone at my shoulders needs to be softer yet to get them to sink down. Another thing to consider is my height. At 5’2", I would align with the zones far differently than my 5’11" husband would. I can’t imagine how zoning could be equally effective for two such different builds.
I do plan on speaking with both Ken and Tomas again, but curious to hear your thoughts on this.

[Sensei]

Hey rp0475,

Phoenix is off for a couple of hard-earned vacation days, but I will try to address your post. Regarding the earlier articles, I will review with Phoenix and see if there is a need to edit.

I just have a quick thought on the zoning, it is not surprising that Luma and AP may have different opinions on zoning. My own opinion is the zoning less important to your decision than the desire to have a firmer coil unit or not. At your height and weight, I do not think you will feel the “zoning” anyways (you will feel whether it’s too firm or not), and issue #1 you raised is important to getting good alignment and pressure relief together. And you bring up a very good point about the zoning, tall person vs short - even though these are high-quality coils units, the zoning is more “marketing” in my opinion. It sounds to me the bolsa coil units, (not as firm) seems to be the right direction.

There may be some locations near you that have these coil units, as they are made by Leggett&Platt a huge conglomerate in the industry.

Thanks,
Sensei

[rp0475]

Thanks Sensei. You have me feeling better that the Bolsa is the right option. I have had a chance to try L&P combi-zone coils locally, although in a former gauge than what the companies I’m looking at offer. It was too firm, but the Talalay layer was also 22 ILD and I’d prefer 19, so it’s not exactly an apples to apples comparison. I don’t know who might offer the Bolsa nearby.

I think I’m almost ready to pull the trigger on the Luma, but have another question I’d love your advice on. The topper I slept on recently at my parents’ was a 2", 19 ILD Natural Talalay topper from the Latex Mattress Factory. The Luma pillow top is 2" of either natural Dunlop or Blended Talalay. I definitely want Talalay, but I don’t know about the blended. My questions are:

1. In the same ILD (19), would blended and natural Talalay feel similar. I’ve read here that natural can feel firmer, and I wonder if that’s why Luma switched their “Plush” from 19 to 24 when they changed from natural to blended.
2. The Natural Latex Hybrid has a transition layer of 28 ILD Dunlop. I know this will be to firm a feel for me, and I’m wondering if the 2" pillow top will be enough to keep my hips from feeling that firmer layer. I initially thought the pillow top was 2", but discovered that was a mistake on the Luma site that they have since fixed.
3. Do you see any reason to go with Natural Talalay over blended? I was surprised to learn today that the blended Talalay is only 30% natural latex.
   I’m now also considering just getting the basic Luma Mattress instead of the Natural Hybrid, which is essentially the same thing but without the pillow top. I could then buy either a 2 or 3 inch topper of natural Talalay elsewhere. For that matter, I could do the same with the EcoSleep - the only downside is if I return it, I have to pay return shipping and am out a total of $300 (total, for both ways). I’m also unsure of the differences in coil gauge between the two, and how the 6" coil differs compared to the 8".

What are your thoughts on this?