I Sleep funny! & Will I have moldy dreams??

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
1

Hi there! Thanks for checking out my question, after several evenings of reading and 9 bookmarks later! I still find myself perplexed about my options! I hope someone can help me with my decision. And maybe clarify some concerns I have. ļŠ :cheer:

I have a small budget of 340$ which Iā€™m hoping to get a bed frame with as wellā€¦My family has offered to help cover some costs if I go over, approx. 100$ though Iā€™d rather not ask that of them. So approx $340-440 for a mattress and frame/box.

What brought me to this amazing website was googleing online, a cheap Sealy Optimum Traditional or Tight top cool gel mattress called the ā€œEtudeā€ that a, I believe regional manager, of a BIG S store recommended, after checking things out on the computer system. He originally recommended a PerfectRest/Avion mattress, but found a clearance Etude mattress(Better quality?) that was double discounted, essentially. Which I thought odd, since stores donā€™t normally do double discounts. (They are in the middle of some sale event at the moment.) $229 taxes $256.48. Iā€™m wondering now though if that may have been a sale story, which Iā€™ve read in some posts referred by Phoenix. He said that a hotel bought too many mattresses and BIG S had these 2 excess mattresses left in the full/double size I was looking for. I thought, Perfect! Feels great, put a refundable deposit down.
http://www.sleepcountry.ca/products/tabid/131/products/363/mattresses/sealy-optimum-posturepedic-etude/default.aspx
(It says there is a centre support but the person I spoke to at the store said he believes the newer versions no longer have this)

Going home to check online for reviews ect. I couldnā€™t find ANYTHING about that specific mattress. BUT I did find a website with 264 complaints about Moldy Sealy memory foam mattresses and Youtube videoā€™s showing it growing from the inside out. I live in a rainy city, Victoria BC and often have condensation on my windows which drip occasionally, so Iā€™m a little concerned! But was really looking forward to the support I felt I was getting on this foam mattress which I tested out for 10+minutes.
Moldy Videoā€™s:

My current free ā€œMoving away do you know anyone who needs a bed?YES!ā€ bed (I Had actually been sleeping on a blow up mattress before, rentā€™s high here! :S ), actually has light grey bits of mold already, on its very basic, home-made-wood-slapped together and nailed frame. Due to the mold and the half an arm length of gaps been the boards of wood Iā€™d like to retire it as well. (The mattress has a dip thatā€™s grown across its whole length now, very basic cheap spring mattress that I put two thin eggs shell foamies on top of) I was thinking of trying to find a, Phoenix-post, suggested frame at my local walmart. Similar to this but I guess it needs more longitudal lines, I seemed to have lost the original linkā€¦ Simple Sleep Queen Folding Steel Bed Frame - Walmart.ca
Looks more breathable!

As for my PPP I came across a bit of a hiccup. I sleep funny! I have poor circulation in my arms/shoulder so I canā€™t put pressure on them when I sleep or I literally lose all sensation in that limb. (So severe, the first time it happened I woke up to, a limp cooling arm falling on my face that I thought belonged to a dead somebody else!) I alternate between sleeping in a kind of hybrid position of side/stomach and sometimes side back. I also sleep with my legs skewed, one knee up towards my chest and one straight. So Iā€™m a little unsure about what the thickness of my comfort level should be, as my sleep positions contradict themselves! Some extra info: I weigh about 250 pounds and have a curvy body, especially around the OL Rump! Haha, and recently developed acid problems which means I have to sleep propped up occasionally. I change position often. Oh, my box spring seems to be only broken in one corner, so maybe I could still use it till I can afford a new one. ļŠ :stuck_out_tongue:

I went back to the store, different guy, and got this information about the ETUDE:
0.5inch ā€œQuilt Flexā€ cotton, poly fibre blend (Though he said it was a wool at one point :dry: )
3inch ā€œStay True Foamā€ Gel infused (didnā€™t know particle size) 1.35lb to 1.8lb
5.5inch ā€œOpti Coreā€ polyform foam ranging from 2.2lb to 2.8lb but he mightā€™ve pulled that number out of the air cause its not on the information card on the mattress which I got photos ofā€¦ :huh:

Any and all suggestions welcomed! Iā€™m thinking of heading to the Foam Zone, and McGeaches Foam and upholstery Stores tomorrow to try some more out!

2

Hi AwkwardSleeper,

I donā€™t know what size you are looking for and this will make a significant difference in the cost of a mattress but as you probably know your budget is very low and I would keep your expectations realistic because itā€™s very unlikely that you will be able to find a good quality mattress in your budget range.

Just in case you havenā€™t read it yet ā€¦ the first place I would start is the mattress shopping tutorial here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choices ā€¦ and know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

There is also more about the most important parts of the ā€œvalueā€ of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses.

When you get to step 3 in the tutorial post ā€¦ then the better options and possibilities Iā€™m aware of in the Victoria, BC and Up Island areas (subject to the guidelines I linked about ā€œvalueā€ in the previous line) are listed in post #2 here.

The tutorial post also includes a link to the better online options Iā€™m aware of that will ship across Canada as well.

In your budget range it may also be worth considering a good quality futon or even a single layer of good quality polyfoam with a good cover.

There is also more about the different types of support systems that would generally be most suitable for different types of mattresses in the foundation post here.

I would also be cautious about mold and mildew in damp climates and I would avoid solid surface support systems under your mattress (see post #10 here) so that there is some airflow and ventilation under your mattress to help any moisture buildup evaporate.

Phoenix

3

Hi Phoenix! If you are the high fiving type, Iā€™d give you one! This website is superb! As an over analytical person I really appreciate all the realistic information youā€™ve supplied in your posts. I have read that and gone through the ā€œYour Style, Preferences and Statisticsā€ section and the tabs beneath that as well as random posts when searching specific questions. :slight_smile: I was having trouble discerning the layers widths/firmness for myself because of the weird sleep positions I mention in my previous post. Iā€™m intrigued by the single layer option, when I go to the foam places tomorrow I will ask! :cheer: I know my budgets low :frowning: I couldnā€™t find any prices on the local foam websites and Iā€™d read in a few posts about how it is significantly cheaper at these places but with out an idea of how much cheaper. I apologize if I seemed presumptuous with my price range. :slight_smile: Goodness gracious! I just burnt my second dinner this week by being on this website! Thatā€™s how deep I have been getting sucked into your posts :slight_smile: I wish I had the money to take advantage of all the intriguing info Iā€™ve been reading. I think Iā€™d be a latex gal to if it were an option. (Iā€™ve even been watching some Beducator/mattress to go videos!)

Thank you also for the Foundation link, I had lost it and spent the better part of an hour trying to find it unsuccessfully earlier today. :slight_smile:

Its a double/full size mattress Iā€™m hoping for, one other fact I forgot to mention is that I donā€™t need it in the long run as Iā€™ll be moving off the island in 2 to 4 years so the durability isnā€™t as important, I understand less durable maybe cheaper as well?

With that in mind what did you think of the Sealy foam density range of 1.35 to 1.8? I read for budget beds you wouldnā€™t recommend going any lower than 1.5, but the sealy isnā€™t specificā€¦

I could possibly up the budget on the mattress by cutting out the need for a frame/box spring by keeping my current one, the mold is minimal and Iā€™m sure the boxspring would act as a barrier to the mattress and is only broken in a corner, the rest is firm. Thus bumping my mattress budget to the full $340 to $440.

Thankyou for taking the time to answer my post!

4

Hi Awkward Sleeper,

These arenā€™t the specific density of the foam because it ranges from lower quality to reasonably good quality and a foam layer would have a specific density not a range but when you see a range of foam densities like this then itā€™s safe (and wiser) to assume that at least some of the foam (if not all of it) is1.35 lb polyfoam which is a low quality material that I would avoid.

I would completely avoid using specs or layer thicknesses to choose a mattress unless you are a professional mattress designer and even then most people who design mattresses will tell you that in many cases they are surprised by what a mattress was ā€œsupposed to feel likeā€ compared to what it actually feels like when they put all the layers together and test it in real life. The only specs that are important are the specs that indicate the quality of the materials in your mattress and I would use your own personal testing and experience to decide which mattress is the best ā€œmatchā€ for you in terms of PPP.

Yes ā€¦ lower quality/density foams are less durable but they are also less costly as well. I wouldnā€™t go below 1.5 lb density though even in low budget ranges (except perhaps for a thinner layer that is often quilted to the cover that is ā€œaround an inch or soā€ of lower quality or unknown materials) and higher is better (see the guidelines here).

If there is mold in your box spring or foundation then I would get rid of it as soon as possible not only for heath reasons but so that it doesnā€™t spread to your mattress or put mold spores in the air.

Something like this or like this may be a good choice for a low budget platform bedframe that would be suitable for most mattresses and then all you need to focus on is a mattress to go on top of it.

Phoenix

5

Hello, thank you for the bed frames and your knowledgeable answers, I appreciate itā€¦As a continuation/update of my search: after 3 shop visits, 4 if you count my Mom in another city (Curious after a perplexing debate over 2 options I was considering) haha, I have decided to wipe the slate so to speak, and begin again, now reading up on your tabs on inner spring mattressesā€¦

.<ā€™

Due to lucky coincidences, time passing dithering over my choices, and a promised early B-Day gift of a bed frame (Probably the amazon frame you suggested) Iā€™m now at 500$ for my mattress budget.

Looking at my phone notes from calling a foam shop earlier today I couldnā€™t help but laugh out loud, without realising I was doing it, I drew some squares, and I canā€™t help but think it was my subconscious mind doodling mattresses!

Here are the options Iā€™ve been musing over PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SKIP TILL LAST ONE as Iā€™m also using this to clarify the debate/decisions in my mind:

The aforementioned, oh so affordable Sealy Optimum Etude (which may actually be on clearance as they say, since it is no longer carried in my hometown) at 256$
3" of probable 1.35lb polyfoam/gel
5.5" of probable 2lb foam (guessing from feeling a couple of 2lb mattresses and salespersons reassurances)
0.5" of cotton poly fibre blend
Debate: Likely useless warranty, will eventually, in approx.1 year, need another $100+ of a new comfort layer but comfy, and SO affordable ha, and if the 5.5inches is really 2lb than possibly passable for my weight.
9inch bed
Iā€™m VERY likely to write it off completely as the 2lb density is just a guess. and McGeachies informed me that the 1.35lb density will likely begin to wear down within 3-4 months.

The Panda from the FoamZone at $200
a hodgepodge of materials,
two 2" of 2lb egg foam sandwiched around 1 inch of unknown, white, cheap feeling, guessing some low polyfoam
and 1" of a multi-colored chip foam which I heard is durable, and hard
6" altogether
Debate: affordable, maybe durable with the layer of chipfoam? majority 2lb foam in it.
Already crossed off my list since its hodgepodgery makes me nervous and I thought I could feel the floor through it.

Mystery-Momā€™s always know best!-Wholehome mattress set! sale of $430 includes boxspring
http://www.sears.ca/product/wholehome-style-factory-tm-mc-oxford-vii-euro-top-sleep-sets/601-87650-87650
After calling Sears and talking to the mattress people I couldnā€™t find out any more information on it than the website says as that is the info they are givenā€¦:
0.5 (mystery) bio foam and 20oz of hollow fibre
2" (mystery) bio ā€œcomfortā€ foam
0.5" of (mystery) Bio tri-visco memory foam
insulator pad and 14.5 gauge continuous coil, 608 coils
10" mattress, 9" box spring
Debate: Affordable, comes with box spring, if comfort layer wears down still have something that resembles a innerspring mattress that I can find a nice topper for. But is a mystery bed and if I can find one, a bonnel spring bed seems a better option. Would like to write it off but donā€™t want to offend my Mother who is quite excited about it :3

$390-$450 Depending on cover wanted, single slab of foam from McGeachies
solid 6" of 2.2lb polyfoam on Iā€™d guess firm side
Debate: $400+ for a single layer of 6inches of foam seems like a lot to my admittedly inexperienced eyes, definantly feels like decent quality, felt like a firmer version of the sealy mattress. Some concerns about its warranty, they measure by pressing on the foam instead of measuring, which seems fine, but I understand they are having some financial difficulties and if things were to go ill for them (hopefully not, I was pretty impressed with there customer service, they seem like really decent folk!) there is the concern of there no longer being a store to collect from if there is a fault in the foam. I feel like it would be close to my PPP fit with my old egg foamies on top of it. Just not sure about spending $400 on it. Would you say thatā€™s about average? Was told it should be no problem with my weight and will last 8 to 10 years without any to significant softening. But also wondering if 6inches is thick enoughā€¦

Iā€™m currently considering finding a nice topper to put on a basic bonnel innerspring if I can find the 2 in my price range. And then Comparing that option with the 2.2lb solid polyfoam option. Which I think my Mom thinks Iā€™m crazy for considering haha. Admitably it seems strange to consider a full foam mattress but I wonder if thatā€™s because my experience with foam has pretty strictly been to basic, camping foams ect. which probably were low quality. I liked the feel of the ones Iā€™ve tried though so far because of my blood circulation problems it seems a good fit. Guess I need to reread the section on foams. All the same, on my next trip Iā€™m going to try a few more styles out. Since I seem to be struggling in a my search for a clear answer. Or maybe Iā€™m just struggling with the acceptance of spending what to me is a large sum of money on what will in some parts be low quality. to many thoughts! To broken bed I go! Goodnight all, wherever whenever you may be! :slight_smile:

6

Hi AwkwardSleeper,

[quote]The aforementioned, oh so affordable Sealy Optimum Etude (which may actually be on clearance as they say, since it is no longer carried in my hometown) at 256$
3" of probable 1.35lb polyfoam/gel
5.5" of probable 2lb foam (guessing from feeling a couple of 2lb mattresses and salespersons reassurances)
0.5" of cotton poly fibre blend
Debate: Likely useless warranty, will eventually, in approx.1 year, need another $100+ of a new comfort layer but comfy, and SO affordable ha, and if the 5.5inches is really 2lb than possibly passable for my weight.
9inch bed
Iā€™m VERY likely to write it off completely as the 2lb density is just a guess. and McGeachies informed me that the 1.35lb density will likely begin to wear down within 3-4 months.[/quote]

Itā€™s unlikely that the base foam would be 2 lb density in this price range (1.5 would be more likely) but regardless of this the 3" of 1.35 lb polyfoam would be a significant weak link in this mattress and this would be a very risky purchase that I would tend to avoid.

[quote]The Panda from the FoamZone at $200
a hodgepodge of materials,
two 2" of 2lb egg foam sandwiched around 1 inch of unknown, white, cheap feeling, guessing some low polyfoam
and 1" of a multi-colored chip foam which I heard is durable, and hard
6" altogether
Debate: affordable, maybe durable with the layer of chipfoam? majority 2lb foam in it.
Already crossed off my list since its hodgepodgery makes me nervous and I thought I could feel the floor through it.[/quote]

It doesnā€™t make much difference what the majority of the foam in a mattress is because a mattress will only be as durable as its weakest link. the 2 lb polyfoam is a good quality material although with the convoluting it would be less durable than a solid layer of 2 lb polyfoam. They should be able to tell you the density of the 1" layer underneath it (you canā€™t ā€œfeelā€ density because any density an be made in firmer or softer versions) but with only 1" this by itself wouldnā€™t be a significant weak link. The 1" base layer sounds like some kind or rebond (often used in carpet underlay) which would be a durable material. Overall this one is ā€œnot badā€ because it only has 1" of unknown quality materials. It would probably be a more durable choice than the Etude.

[quote]Mystery-Momā€™s always know best!-Wholehome mattress set! sale of $430 includes boxspring
www.sears.ca/product/wholehome-style-facā€¦sets/601-87650-87650
After calling Sears and talking to the mattress people I couldnā€™t find out any more information on it than the website says as that is the info they are givenā€¦:
0.5 (mystery) bio foam and 20oz of hollow fibre
2" (mystery) bio ā€œcomfortā€ foam
0.5" of (mystery) Bio tri-visco memory foam
insulator pad and 14.5 gauge continuous coil, 608 coils
10" mattress, 9" box spring
Debate: Affordable, comes with box spring, if comfort layer wears down still have something that resembles a innerspring mattress that I can find a nice topper for. But is a mystery bed and if I can find one, a bonnel spring bed seems a better option. Would like to write it off but donā€™t want to offend my Mother who is quite excited about it :3[/quote]

Springwall has told me that they would provide the density of the foam materials in any mattress they make (see post #4 here) so it would be worthwhile calling them here to find out the density of the foam layers so you can make an informed choice about this mattress. I would treat ā€œunknown foam densitiesā€ in the same way as I would treat low quality foam layers and with about 3" of foam on top of this mattress it could also be a very risky purchase without knowing the quality/density of the foam layers. Without this information itā€™s not possible for me to make any meaningful comments about the mattress other than suggesting I would avoid any mattress where there was more than about an inch or so of unknown quality materials.

[quote]$390-$450 Depending on cover wanted, single slab of foam from McGeachies
solid 6" of 2.2lb polyfoam on Iā€™d guess firm side
Debate: $400+ for a single layer of 6inches of foam seems like a lot to my admittedly inexperienced eyes, definantly feels like decent quality, felt like a firmer version of the sealy mattress. Some concerns about its warranty, they measure by pressing on the foam instead of measuring, which seems fine, but I understand they are having some financial difficulties and if things were to go ill for them (hopefully not, I was pretty impressed with there customer service, they seem like really decent folk!) there is the concern of there no longer being a store to collect from if there is a fault in the foam. I feel like it would be close to my PPP fit with my old egg foamies on top of it. Just not sure about spending $400 on it. Would you say thatā€™s about average? Was told it should be no problem with my weight and will last 8 to 10 years without any to significant softening. But also wondering if 6inches is thick enoughā€¦[/quote]

This would certainly be the highest quality and most durable choice out of the options that youā€™ve mentioned. If it includes a good cover then I would say that the price is reasonable. For me the quality of the materials is more important than a warranty and if there is a defective layer it will normally show up early in the life of the mattress.

As far as which of these is the best match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) only you can know that based on your personal testing or sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). If you canā€™t test a mattress in person then the options you have to exchange or return the mattress after a purchase if it doesnā€™t turn out to be a good match for you would become a much more important part of the ā€œvalueā€ of your purchase because you will need to sleep on the mattress to know how well it works for you.

Phoenix

7

Sorry I canā€™t seem to spot a number in that post. Just to make sure, when referring to Springwall, did you mean they make the ā€œWholehomeā€ Sears Brand? Is one of the 2 numbers at the top of this page the company you meant I should call?
http://www.simmonsmattressgallery.net/mattresses-nova-scotia/springwall/

OH! Excited, as it is half the cost of the good quality 2.2lb at Mcgeachies. I want to run over there first thing tomorrow and see if its still available. But my analytical side is yanking back on the reigns. When I was there (FoamZone) my confidence in their quality was not won. But I didnā€™t make it there till close to closing. Iā€™m curious if youā€™ve spoken with them about their mattresses before? Of the Panda, the lady said they come out different all the time (from A-Z) they use what they have on hand and the next batch she gets might not be the same. I lack some confidence in the 2" convoluted foam parts being actually 2lb because she didnā€™t know for sure right from the beginning. She unzipped the mattress and stared at it for a good minute before deciding it must be 2lb density.

If you were to make a guess, how much of a difference in durability of convoluted foam do you think there would be. Do you think this mix match mattress might last 5 years of everyday use?

As for the 2.2lb being reasonable if it includes and good cover, do you mean like a cover sewn to look like a mattress cover? Thatā€™s what they meant when it was explained to me, wanted to check if we were thinking the same thing or not! Thatā€™s the $450 option. With just a simple, believe it was polycotten blend cover its the $390 price.

Once again, thank you so much! Youā€™ve really help me break through the fog I was feeling trapped in. Next time Iā€™m near the BIG S store I can confidently ask for my deposit refund on the Etude. (The cause of this grand research adventure!)

8

Hi AwkwardSleeper,

Yes ā€¦ the Sears description on the page you linked says that the mattress is made by Springwall.

[quote]Is one of the 2 numbers at the top of this page the company you meant I should call?
www.simmonsmattressgallery.net/mattresse...a-scotia/springwall/[/quote]

No ā€¦ if Sears canā€™t provide the information you need then you would need to call Springwall ā€¦ not one of their dealers. Their website and contact information is here and I would talk with their Calgary factory.

[quote]OH! Excited, as it is half the cost of the good quality 2.2lb at Mcgeachies. I want to run over there first thing tomorrow and see if its still available. But my analytical side is yanking back on the reigns. When I was there (FoamZone) my confidence in their quality was not won. But I didnā€™t make it there till close to closing. Iā€™m curious if youā€™ve spoken with them about their mattresses before? Of the Panda, the lady said they come out different all the time (from A-Z) they use what they have on hand and the next batch she gets might not be the same. I lack some confidence in the 2" convoluted foam parts being actually 2lb because she didnā€™t know for sure right from the beginning. She unzipped the mattress and stared at it for a good minute before deciding it must be 2lb density.

If you were to make a guess, how much of a difference in durability of convoluted foam do you think there would be. Do you think this mix match mattress might last 5 years of everyday use?[/quote]

If a foam supplier was that uncertain about the quality/density of the foam in one of their mattresses then that would be a red flag for me and I would lack some confidence in the information they were providing as well. I donā€™t know enough about the specifics of this mattress to hazard a guess about its durability or itā€™s useful life. If memory serves me right I had a brief conversation with them some time ago but not about any of their specific mattresses so my comments were based on the information they provided to you.

I mean a cover that fits well and that is meant to be used as a mattress cover. A poly/cotton blend cover would probably be fine although they would know more about how durable it would be (if itā€™s really thin it may not last as long as the foam) but different covers will also affect the feel and performance of the mattress and could affect temperature regulation as well (depending on the materials) so I would choose the cover that you prefer.

Phoenix

9

Hi sorry to bother you again but can you connect me with a post that elaborates why density/weight of polyfoam equates quality? I spent a good hour of my day today being schooled by a sincere mattress seller that there is likely a misunderstanding somewhere in my research and that weight/density doesnā€™t affect durability/quality. Maybe HR and HD to if you have one, the people at mcgeachies seemed to not recognize that. :unsure:

10

Hi AwkwardSleeper,

There is more about the many variables that can affect durability and the useful life of a mattress in post #4 here (including the density of any memory foam and polyfoam in a mattress).

There is also more about the different grades of polyfoam used in comfort layers here and in support layers here.

Phoenix

11

Sorry, been reading since I received your reply and havenā€™t found an explanation why the weight is a factor, just that it is. ~rests face on fists thinking~ The guy I was speaking with today said something about more bubbles in softer foams and I recall thinking the more holes in something the more likely to tearā€¦does it have to do with that, in a sense? Like, the thicker, heavier something is the stronger it is? But this in turn would make it harder/firmer wouldnā€™t it? It mentions in one of your posts that foam will retain its shape but lose its resistance to pressure after wear, what exactly happens to cause this? The guy I spoke to today just had his bed exchanged by having someone use a leveler of sorts on his bed to measure the dip. but if its foam that softens but retains its original shape thatā€™s obviously not measurable by a leveler it would seem, but people complain of dips in their foam mattressesā€¦

12

Hi AwkwardSleeper,

Density ā€¦ not weight ā€¦ and in particular polymer density is the most important factor in durability (density is weight per unit volume) but the more specific answer to this would require a course in materials science or polurethane foam chemistry which is outside the scope of the forum. The ā€œsimpleā€ answer is that polyfoam with a higher density has more material, thicker and stronger struts in the foam cells, and less air. Density is not directly connected to firmness because both lower density and higher density polyfoam can be made in a wide range of firmness levels from very soft to very firm but in addition to durability it is also more closely connected to the compression modulus of the foam (the rate that a material becomes firmer with deeper compression).

If you are interested in learning more technical information about polyfoam then a good place to start would be the Polyurethane Foam Association site here or the American Chemistry Council site here and in particular the links in post #5 here which discuss the relationship between density and durability.

There are more links with even more detailed information yet about polyurethane foam in post #2 here.

Phoenix

13

Thankyou! Exactly what I was looking for. CONFIDENCE RESTORED :woohoo: I think I was little intimidated by the lengthy conversation from the guy. Its probably my fault actually, maybe though he didnā€™t seem it, he was feeling defensive because I told one of his customers about the different types of foam densityā€™s to look for, and look out for. memory foam (4lb min) and polyfoam (1.5lbmin to 1.8lb) and got her to write down your website, teeheeā€¦ :whistle: