Latex Mattress for Toddler in Canada

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
1

Hello!

So grateful for this forum which has saved me from purchasing a mattress from questionable dealers/retailers. We would like to spend the least possible (money is tight right now), but we do see the value in a fully latex, organic mattress for our kid, which I know will cost more than an innerspring and we are okay with that. I was ready to purchase the Amazon mattress listed below, but after my phone calls and interactions with different dealers today, I am now probably leaning towards spending more to buy from a trusted, established business. Today I spoke with representatives of Majestic Sit + Sleep, LatexGreen Canada (the Amazon seller), and Naturelle (holy mackerel, based on my interaction with him I would avoid these guys at all costs).

I called Naturelle first because their customer service phone number and branding was on the Amazon listing (see #3 below) so I wanted to see if this was an authorized reseller of their product. The rep I spoke with was extremely rude and hostile. He raised his voice at me and spoke in constant contradictions. He said Naturelle is not associated with this amazon listing. I asked him if he knew why their Customer Service phone number is on the Amazon listing, along with photos of their “Naturelle” branded mattress cover and the listing says “Brand: Naturelle”. He told me they are not affiliated with the amazon seller or listing but in another breath told me “We are Latex Green Canada. We are the same company”. If you claim to be the same company as LatexGreen Canada (the purported Amazon Seller), why can’t you answer questions about the Naturelle branded mattress on the listing? He then said that they deal with warranty issues on these mattresses so I could call them at that number “after you buy the mattress” for warranty follow-up. So you can’t answer questions pre-purchase but you do warranty follow-up? This is what I mean, he spoke in contradictions the entire time and gave me absolutely zero confidence. Anyway, I could go on and on detailing how bizarre this phone call was. Ultimately it left a really bad taste in my mouth and I knew for sure that I wasn’t going to consider any of Naturelle’s options (especially considering some of the stuff I’ve read on here about them) and didn’t want to have to deal with them for any warranty or customer service issues in the future.

I then contacted the rep for LatexGreen Canada (the Amazon seller) who was helpful and gave me lots of information. But I am skeptical of this reseller for a few reasons… mainly that they are operating under the name “LatexGreen Canada” who’s location on google maps is a house in Brampton (weird), but the rep told me works/part-owns a company called GK Mattress. So what is the affiliation with LatexGreen and why are they allowed to use that name on Amazon? I have no idea. He told me that they used to sell Naturelle branded beds but don’t anymore (which is why they have the photos of the Naturelle branded mattresses and are using the name Naturelle on the Amazon listing). Overall, he was very kind and helpful, I am just not convinced that I want to buy from a company with no established reputation, no storefront, no reviews, and just a cell phone number as a contact. Don’t get me wrong, the guy was super nice, but I think at this point I would rather spend the $180 and buy from Majestic Sit and Sleep, knowing it is an established retailer with a reputation.

SO, all that said, I am looking for a 6" latex mattress (twin) for my toddler who is almost 3 and 35lb. We are looking for something slightly more plush than his very firm crib mattress, in hopes it will help him sleep better.

I have done a fair amount of research and have come to the conclusion that I am looking for GOLS certified organic latex with (ideally) 100% natural fibre cover. The rep for MS+S told me that any cover that is sold as 100% organic cotton would have to be treated with flame retardant or blended with another fibre to be flame resistant (therefore not being entirely organic cotton), which is a legal requirement in Canada. We think we prefer a natural cover, so would go with cotton/wool, but the $200 price difference is a lot and we have to cover the mattress with a waterproof protector anyway… so is there any point in going for natural fibres only in the mattress cover? Does anyone have insight on this? Also hoping for some insight on firmness.

  1. Nature’s Embrace Classic 6 in Firm
    $495 bamboo/poly cover – $695 cotton/wool cover
    40 ILD
    https://www.naturesembracelatex.com/products/the-classic-6-latex-mattress

  2. MS+S Classic Latex in Medium-Firm (this particular core is on clearance because they are discontinuing carrying this particular medium-firm option)
    $395 bamboo/poly cover – $595 cotton/wool cover
    35 ILD
    https://www.majesticsitandsleep.com/collections/twin-size-mattresses/products/classic-latex-mattress-closeout?variant=33049686966333

  3. LatexGreen Canada on Amazon in Medium OR Firm
    $420 (claims to have 100% organic cotton cover but I have heard this would be illegal in terms of fibre content and fire resistance?)
    Unknown ILD
    Amazon.ca

I think ultimately we are leaning towards the MS+S, just based on firmness (thinking it may be the right balance for him while not being too firm) and price. Undecided on the cover material but hoping for some insight on that.

Thanks in advance for any insight and advice any of you can provide!

2

Hi loglady93.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Thank you for your appreciation and for taking the time to share your research and the details from the 3 dealers during your phone calls. You’ve gathered good information in one fine sweep of drilling down and are asking the right questions.

You got a bit of runaround but these are great questions loglady93. I’d also tend to keep a safe distance from anything and anyone that is giving confusing or contradictory information. Join the club! Not a very inviting business card for this company. Other subscribers report similar issues and confusion here Sensei did a bit more digging on Latex Green Canada so you might find that information useful especially as it relates to the Amazon purchase.

You can also see that under amazon “Brand: Naturelle” a series of mattresses are sold, … most of which are using some organic or natural components or are marketed as such. This reseller store is capitalizing on the use of the word natural (and variations) to get a bit more SEO traction and target customers that are inclined to select organic or natural products (not only mattresses)

e always suggest to our subscribers to set their mattress budget to get the best Quality / Price ratio, because “The bitterness of lesser or poor quality remains long after the sweetness of lower prices are forgotten” Your child will outgrow the need for a waterproof protector and can benefit from the temperature regulating qualities of a cotton/wool cover.

While the general guidelines below are not “exact” recommendations because there is no single firmness level that is always best for all children and different people or different manufacturers can have different definitions of firmness here are a few firmness guidelines to ensure good posture and support during the forming of their epiphyseal plates.
• infant/baby …. will generally need firm to an extra-firm sleeping surface
• 1-3 toddler … will need a medium-firm to firm sleeping surface
• 3-5 preschooler and older children that have transitioned to a larger mattress and are out of the crib … will generally do best with medium to medium-firm sleeping surfaces.

You are correct that generally, a child won’t need more than 6" or so of latex, and when the needs change if it becomes necessary then you can add some thickness or softness with either another layer inside a new cover or add a softer topper to the mattress. If you get a multi-layered component style mattress then you can add or exchange layers as your child grows. If and when they need a softer comfort layer in their “sleeping system” you can also add a softer topper to any firmer child mattress when they get older and develop more adult proportions.

Both the 1. Nature’s Embrace and 2. MS+S Classic options look good and meet your criteria, although if you go with the MS you won’t be able at a later time to add more comfort to the mattress as your child grows.

You are definitely on the right track, At this stage, I would trust your instincts, which proved to serve you very well. :slight_smile:

Phoenix

3

I was ripped off by Naturelle. Don’t believe those google reviews many sound like they are the same author or are one time reviewers. I bought a 100 percent Dunlop mattress for my four year old daughter from naturally. Two years later it began off gassing this synthetic odour. When I called the owner John /George he goes by both names he shrugged me off. I called the Vietnamese company he claimed he bought the latex and never received a response confirming they were his distributor. Also John behaved strangely when we went to the showroom. He quickly locked the door behind us and kept looking out the window with a scared look which we found odd and we should have just left and not bought the mattress.

4

Hello Phoenix and thank you so much for your very helpful, detailed, and thoughtful reply!

I know my initial post was a bit of a novel but I wanted to share my experience with this company/seller because they really do try and pull the wool over your eyes, like you mentioned. And to someone new to the market or less discerning, you could get ripped off, like the other commenter noted below. Thank you for confirming my gut instincts with this company.

This is a really good point and something I didn’t consider. I know this is getting pretty specific/speculative and there’s probably no good answer (forgive me), but do you think the waterproof layer of a mattress protector (TPU, I presume?) completely offsets the temp. regulating abilities of cotton/wool? If you speculate it may “cancel out” the beneficial qualities of cotton/wool, we would probably just choose the bamboo/poly now, because I can’t imagine removing the waterproof protector for the next 10 years or so and it’s a little more budget-friendly (30% less).

[QUOTE]While the general guidelines below are not “exact” recommendations because there is no single firmness level that is always best for all children and different people or different manufacturers can have different definitions of firmness here are a few firmness guidelines to ensure good posture and support during the forming of their epiphyseal plates.
• infant/baby …. will generally need firm to an extra-firm sleeping surface
• 1-3 toddler … will need a medium-firm to firm sleeping surface
• 3-5 preschooler and older children that have transitioned to a larger mattress and are out of the crib … will generally do best with medium to medium-firm sleeping surfaces.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for these guidelines! This gives me confidence that the 6" medium-firm from MS+S is probably a good choice right now. After I made this post, the rep from MS+S told me the density of this particular mattress is 78kg/m3. He said their regular “medium” core is 75 and their regular “firm” is 85, so this mattress is actually closer to a medium. Which probably makes it a good choice based on what you’ve mentioned above.

Could you clarify what you mean with the Majestic mattress that we won’t be able to add more comfort? It’s been my understanding that the Nature’s Embrace and MS+S are the same core just different firmness (same company). I did note what you mentioned regarding adding a layer within a new cover or adding a topper, which are both good ideas for how to expand this bed to fit him into adolescence. So just wanted to clarify what you meant in relation to the MS+S choice.

Thank you again Phoenix for reading my novel and giving us reassurance and more guidance. Because we want the mattress to work for him for years to come, we want to make sure we are getting all of the information from the most knowledgable folks. So thank you for sharing this knowledge so generously and graciously, all over this forum! Cheers!

5

Wow, yikes. I am really sorry to hear that this was your experience with Naturelle. He goes by both names? Bizarre. I wonder if he was who I spoke with when I called that phone number (didn’t get his name). His behaviour sounds absolutely strange and probably indicative of the business he is running.

It’s really too bad that they are so prominent when googling “latex mattress Canada”, because they’re definitely taking business from reputable and honest businesses. Their Google reviews seem really good at first glance, but obviously there is more to the story. I’m just relieved we figured all of this out before buying something from them. Thank you for sharing your story.

6

Hi loglady93.

You are most welcome! :slight_smile: I personally welcome the “novel” length of a post that is factual and well organized. I find it refreshing to see your thought process, attention to inconsistencies, and any red flags that identify companies that try to “pull the wool over your eyes”. Your post can certainly act as a caution for other consumers and even though they might still consider buying products from the company at least they can do so with open eyes and knowing what to expect.

[Quote] This is a really good point and something I didn’t consider. I know this is getting pretty specific/speculative and there’s probably no good answer (forgive me), but do you think the waterproof layer of a mattress protector (TPU, I presume?) completely offsets the temp. regulating abilities of cotton/wool?
[/quote]
Besides the sheets, waterproof mattress protectors are the closest to the skin. Generally, the materials, layers, and components of a sleeping system that are closer to the skin will have a bigger effect on airflow, moisture transport, and temperature regulation than materials, layers, and components that are further away from the skin. Also, you may want to keep in mind that some synthetic protectors may emit higher levels of VOCs. That being said there are many types of protectors… There are quite a few tradeoffs involved between how breathable they are … how much they will affect the feel of the mattress, the importance of natural materials, and of course cost. There is more about the choices and trade-offs involved and the amount of “protection” that may be important in post #2 here) and in post #5 here). Even though the post has some links to older products all other considerations still stand.

How much of its beneficial qualities of the cover and latex layer under the protector are “canceled out” depends on the type and fiber that is being used in the ticking or mattress protector. When you make your selection, I’d keep in mind that natural fibers are the most effective in terms of wicking and or storing moisture because synthetic fibers generally absorb moisture into the spaces, not the fiber itself. Artificial or “semi-synthetic” fibers (in between natural and synthetic) such as various types of cellulosic or rayon fibers (made from dissolved plant cellulose) are closer to natural fibers and do a good job of wicking moisture away from the body and ventilating.

There are also some types of synthetic fibers (such as coolmax) which are specifically designed to draw moisture away from the skin and disperse it to the rest of the layer which can be effective as well.

In terms of sheets and bedding … natural or artificial fibers (cotton or various cellulosic fibers) are more cooling than synthetic fibers and linen is perhaps the coolest of all.

For Mattress protectors you may want to look at the pore sizes as well. The smaller pore sizes may offer more complete protection for smaller particles and liquids but may not be as effective for ventilation or at absorbing and wicking away moisture (which is part of temperature control) which is why natural fibers tend to sleep cooler than synthetic fibers (which don’t absorb moisture). Rayon type “semi-synthetic” fibers that are made from cellulosic materials such as bamboo, wood, or eucalyptus also absorb moisture and are similar to natural fibers in their ability to absorb and wick moisture

MS+S medium core is 75 kg/m3 (4.69 lb/ft3which is a soft-medium with a hardness coefficient between
13-18 You can see this on LatexGreen’s website here I don’t know how hard the crib mattress was for your child and how much “softer” you’d like to go with the new mattress but based on the previous guidelines the MS 78 kg/m3 may still not be as supportive as your child needs. All mattresses need a firm support core to provide proper spinal alignment which is even more important for a growing child. Additionally, you decide to go ahead with MS+S and later want to use it as a support core to add more comfort and height as your child develops, this core not be supportive enough, and adding anything softer might compromise the neutral spinal alignment.

[center]
https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/66/2021-08-21-LatexGreenDensity-Hardnessspecs.png[/center]

IMO a Medium-Firm hardness would be more suitable for your child (now and later) but if you have different reasons for selecting the soft-medium firmess and wish to bounce them by us, I’d be happy to have another look.

Phoenix
@cdnpatriot ~ thanks for chiming in and sharing your experience. :wink:

7

Hi Phoenix,

Thank you for your detailed reply once again. This morning I don’t have a lot of time to reply so I’m just going to cut to the most pressing topic.

The whole density/ILD/firmness situation was really confusing for me and after hours and hours spent researching and reading, I still don’t feel I have a good grasp on this. The goal was to get a firm mattress with enough support for his growing body but also not have it be absolutely rock hard like his current crib mattress.

MS+S sells this core as “medium-firm” with a density of 78 and an ILD of 35. Everywhere on the internet I could read about ILD, a 35 seemed to be on the very-firm side of medium (and some companies and websites even list an ILD of 35 as “firm”). Before purchasing, I wanted to look into what established latex mattress brands may be selling in terms of kids mattresses and firmness levels. I found most are marketing kids latex mattresses anywhere from medium to firm but many companies don’t disclose ILD or density ratings up front, so difficult to really do detailed research without reaching out to each company.

MS+S has a firm core that they sell at a density of 85 and an ILD of 40 - it’s $495 instead of $395. My concern with this one is that it would be really rock hard… but maybe my concerns are not valid because really I don’t have any idea what I’m talking about :slight_smile:

We placed the order on Friday for this medium-firm core but now I am second guessing it. We can’t return it so I am hoping it hasn’t shipped yet and I have contacted them to try and put a stop to the process until we can make a more informed decision.

Any further thoughts? Thank you again.

8

Hello again Phoenix,

I was going to edit my previous reply but can’t figure out if I am able to. We decided to just change our order with MS to the firm mattress (density 85, ILD 40). I feel really good about this, thanks to you and all your tips/advice.

I read your notes on mattress protectors and I will go read/review the links to posts you attached as well. I think I will try and find an organic cotton protector w/ a waterproof membrane (hours of online scouring… commence!!).

My replies here seem so abbreviated and shallow compared to what you’ve offered me! I can’t thank you enough for all of your help and advice. It’s so greatly appreciated on a large purchase such as this. We will definitely come back to the forums here when we are in the market for a new mattress for our bed! Cheers, take care, and stay safe!

9

Hi loglady93.

You are most welcome! :slight_smile:
Congratulations on your new mattress for your son! :cheer:

Thank you for your updates. For a 3-year-old this is would be a more appropriate firmness selection due to their epiphyseal plate and postural formation. . Later on, you can certainly use this 6" layer as a base layer and add a topper for more comfort as he develops more adult proportions. This way you can get both long life and adjustability options over time.

Pheonix