Latex Mattress Help

I’ve been searching for some time (months) trying to find a good latex mattress. After much research I was really impressed with the V-zone from Flobeds. I did hold off getting a mattress until recently as I wanted to see if I could save some money during Black Friday.

I’m rather discouraged at how I was treated by the company. I sent this email to them reaching out to their company.

[b][color=#ff0044]On Nov 28, 2015, at 1:48 AM, ***************> wrote:


I was looking at your V-zone organic queen for $2899.00. I would like to know if your doing any specials or could help me save some money. I know you do price matching. So far Astrabeds (Solacebed) and Plushbeds (12" Botanical Bliss) are both at $2400 for a comparable bed. Plush beds are including Queen pillows, premium organic protector, and Egyptian sheet set along with the price.

I would like to work a deal out with you. Please let me know. If no response in a reasonable time, I will go with the Plushbeds deal before the sale goes off. I can be contacted via cell phone later today at (***) ***- ****.


Jamie *****[/color][/b]

I got an automated e-mail response back providing why Flobeds is the best blah blah. Why offer price matching if you won’t do it? Instead they argued that their company did what first, and why they are better than everyone else to prove value to their product.

They also hyped up their customer service, which frankly can’t be that great as they couldn’t even address me as a potential customer. An automated e-mail than didn’t even respond to me? Really??? I wouldn’t have even said anything about any of this, but I really felt let down by this company. I’ve done so much research on finding the right mattress, and after all the hype about quality product, warranty/exchange, and costumer service…led me to a dead end :S

Could anyone help me decide between Astrabeds, or Plushbeds? I am a heavier guy, so a thicker latex mattress is needed. I sleep all over the spectrum…back, side, and sometimes on my stomach.

Hi jzfister,

I’m not sure what you were expecting in a reply to such a very generic question but I think that you may be rushing to judgement based on some preconceptions that may not be accurate. You also appear to have misunderstood what they mean by “price matching” or the specifics of how it works (see here) because the Flobeds mattress is very different from the other mattresses you are considering and they also sell their mattresses at their “best price” every day of the year and they don’t need “fake sale prices” or “negotiation” to be a great quality/value choice every day of the year.

I would keep in mind that the better manufacturers and retailers don’t generally “negotiate” (see post #6 here) or have “fake sales” with large discounts based on the time of year or holidays (see the guidelines here and post #5 here). While they may have sales with smaller discounts … I would treat retailers or manufacturers that negotiate their prices or have “major holiday sales” (that are often just rotating sales that only change their name at different times of the year) as a red flag because manufacturers or retailers that sell good quality/value mattresses don’t need to negotiate or have “fake sales” with misleading discounts to create a false sense of urgency and they sell good quality/value mattresses every day of the year at prices that are already very reasonable.

When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will also know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with such as Savvy Rest) than anyone else.

I would also avoid using email for the types of question you were asking since it’s not really possible to provide the guidance you seemed to be looking for with an email (see post #4 here).

There is also more about the 3 most important parts of “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).

There are some comments about Astrabeds and some of their sister companies in post #2 here and in post #3 here and a forum search on Astrabeds (you can just click this) will bring up more information about them as well. They have recently introduced a new latex lineup that uses organic Dunlop latex and you can see some comments about them in posts #6 and #7 here).

You can see some comments about Plushbeds in post #2 here and a forum search on Plushbeds (you can just click the link) will bring up much more information and comments/feedback about them as well. I would also keep in mind that their “sale” prices are always in effect so they would be their “regular” price not a “sale” price (see post #9 here). These are the type of “fake sale” prices that I was mentioning in the previous link that only create a false sense of urgency and are just part of marketing and don’t reflect any better “value” than they would normally have.

The same comments would apply to the Astrabeds so called “sale prices” as well.

There are certainly many other options available to you that for most of the members here would represent better quality/value choices than either of the companies you are considering.

If you really want to get a sense of the type of service and guidance that is available with any company then I would always call them on the phone and talk to them in person. Flobed is one of the members here which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency.

Flobeds certainly makes some great quality/value mattresses and their vZone is a unique design that isn’t available from other companies. You can see some comments about their vZone mattress in post #4 here. Various zoning systems can be very useful and worth considering for people who have more challenging circumstances or sensitivities, body types that are more difficult to “match” to a mattress, or who have a history of having more difficulty in finding a mattress that works well for them. There is also more about zoning in this article and in post #11 here.


Thank you for all the great information. I will look into it further when I get a chance.

My comments were basically directed at the automated response sent to me, well “Samantha” anyways lol. Last time I remember, my mother named me “Jamie” :slight_smile: I don’t exactly see how my question was general, as I asked to speak to them in hopes of making a deal. That’s why I left them my number. Even if they don’t do sales, etc…I would have hoped that they would have contacted me other than an automated response:

Dave Turner [email protected] Nov 28 at 11:19 PM
Samantha ****************
dewey turner
Message body

We are flattered they have attempted to imitate the Latex design we created in the 1990s where you can each have your own firmness and change it. Differences:

  1. Cover- Our cover is Organic Cotton 2-ply Euro Knit quilted to Organic Wool. The quality of our cover is second to none. We could buy a cover like other companies sell for hundreds of dollars less then our cover costs. We also quilt to wool in the sides and bottom to pass the Federal Open Flame test with out chemicals or other artificial components. Here is a online post by someone comparing covers and more who purchaseed both a FloBed for her and a SleepEZ for her son:
    What's the Best Mattress | Flobed/Sleepez Comparison

  2. Convoluted Topper- Every FloBed is made with a one piece two inch convoluted topper that spans both sides. This, combined with the cover, is why you won’t feel the transition from one side to the other. In addition, convolute (some call it egg crate) latex is not only comfortable, but is healthy. Hospitals will put someone on a convoluted polyfoam topper after an operation while the patient is still unconscious to keep them from getting a pressure ulcer. The FloBeds convoluted latex topper is made from a medium (28 ILD) Talalay latex, but because every-other-inch is sculpted out of the surface, it feels like a super-soft. We only do a two inch topper, because we know that too much soft on top of the mattress can lead to improper spinal alignment. We use the cores beneath to get that right.

  3. vZone- No one has anything approaching the comfort and versatility of our vZone design. Add the ability to get any zone in any firmness at no extra charge (no shipping, nothing to return) and you get the mattress you know will be “Just Right” for you.

  4. We cut our own latex- First we split the 6" Talalay core in half into two 3" FloBed cores. This is an 80" Horizontal Band Saw that costs almost $100,000. We then cut the FloBed 3" core to size with a smaller Vertical Foam Band Saw. I am certain no one in the industry is more exacting than we are when it comes to sizing. Our latex must be precise in the thickness cut, because when 3 are stacked next to 3 others, a 3/16ths inch difference could add up to over 1/2 inch height difference side-to-side. We vertical cuts to make King, Cal King, Queen, Double or Twin must be precise. Our invention works because we have designed the overall latex dimensions to be 1/2 inch larger than the cover. The latex must fit slightly compressed. Cover and Latex are cut precisely.

  5. Quality- Whether the materials we use to make the bed or the packaging. We have never cut corners, and we never will.

  6. Customer Service- Perhaps our biggest advantage. We make a great mattress. And we are even better at listening to you (and your body) after the purchase to make the mattress “Just Right”… for 100 days… 365 days… for 20 years. We take care of our customers, they become our family. Even that 5% of customers who find that our mattress is not for them continually give us great reviews because of our customer service.

  7. Price- We used to do like traditional stores where prices are regularly marked down to “encourage” people to buy. And since we offer a 100 night money back guarantee it only went to reason we should offer a price guarantee. We did, and folks could watch the web to see if the bed they purchased went on sale within 100 days. It usually did, so we would refund the difference. Our customers were working hard, we were working hard… just to deliver the price we wanted to sell our products at to start with. So a few years back we went to everyday best price and included two of our twice fluffed pillows for free. Orders went up immediately and we have had our best years ever.

Dave Turner
[email protected]

I know that they are a top-rated company; that’s why I wanted deal with them. Anyhow thanks again.


Hi jzister,

It’s certainly possible that they sent you a reply that was meant to be a reply to a different email (from someone named Samantha) but at least the information they sent you is good information.

They also could have just replied with a “No” to your question about having sales and with a “we don’t negotiate our prices” to your question about “working out a deal” but I still would make a point of calling and talking with them (which I would consider to be an essential part of any online mattress purchase).

In any case I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding and with the information here and in the online list of the members here in the tutorial (including several that sell component latex mattresses) you certainly have many good options available to you.

Outside of online options there may also be some local options that are worth considering and if you let me know your city or zip code I’d be happy to let you know about the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area.


My zip is 54981. Thanks for the effort in helping me and others that I’ve seen so far. This is such a great site.

Hi jzfister,

The better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around the larger Green Bay, WI area (subject to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines I linked in my first reply) are listed in post #2 here.

There are some latex or latex hybrid mattresses but I don’t know of any component latex mattresses available in the area.


Whatever you do, don’t buy the Astrabed latex mattress. I bought one in the summer of this year, 2015 and I have regretted it every night since. I am in constant pain from sleeping on it. It provides no support. I ordered a medium-firm and it’s like sleeping on a worn-out sofa. My hips and lower back hurt so bad in the morning, I can barely roll over without sharp pain. It is ridiculous and to give you an idea of how much support I need: I am 5’1" and weigh 107 lbs. It’s not like my frame should be sinking into a mattress!

Hi HoustonPerson,

I’m sorry to hear that your mattress choice didn’t work out well for you but I would keep in mind that a mattress that causes you pain or discomfort may be a “perfect” mattress for someone else (and vice versa) so your experience would have very little to do with whether the same mattress would be a good choice for anyone else. Each of us is unique in terms of the mattress that is the best “match” for us in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences).

While other people’s comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful … I would always be very cautious about about using other people’s experiences or reviews on a mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you and in many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because any mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range) and reviews in general certainly won’t tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or “value” of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here).

“Support” is also often misunderstood because the goal of a “supportive” mattress is to keep the spine and joints in good alignment and this requires the type of contouring support that allows some parts of the body to sink in more and some parts of the body to sink in less and this will vary on an individual basis. There is more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support/alignment” and “comfort/pressure relief” and “feel” and how they interact together.

There are some comments about Astrabeds and some of their sister companies in post #2 here and in post #3 here and a forum search on Astrabeds (you can just click this) will bring up more information about them as well. They have recently introduced a new latex lineup that uses organic Dunlop latex and you can see some comments about them in posts #6 and #7 here).

While they may not be the best “value” choice compared to some of the other latex options that are available … they certainly do use high quality and durable materials (organic Dunlop latex and an organic cotton cover quilted with natural wool) and there are no lower quality materials or “weak links” in their mattresses.

They also have a good 90 day exchange/return policy so if you made the wrong firmness choice you can either rearrange the layers, exchange a layer for a softer or firmer one, or you can donate your mattress and receive a refund so at least you had the foresight to choose a mattress that has a good exchange/return policy so there was little risk in trying it.


I appreciate your thoughts on how each person’s pressure points differ and mattresses may fulfill some folks’ needs but not others, etc. Somewhat true. But, therein lies the problem with buying an Astrabed. You have to buy it online and so you don’t try it, to see if your pressure points line up with the mattress you’ve chosen, in advance of purchase. And while the 90-day to return policy sounds altruistic in writing, the fact is that I didn’t actually realize that the lower back pain that grew into hip pain was being caused by the mattress, until I had to take a business trip and slept on a hotel mattress (which was probably a quarter of the cost of my Astrabed) and then went camping and slept on a skinny air mattress and felt much better all 4 mornings of camping also. And then there is the problem of how you get the Astrabed back - even if I had realized my pain was from the mattress in time.

The Astrabed is mashed so tightly into a smaller-than-mattress box, that when it’s delivered, the box is already coming apart. It is extremely heavy too, and as we began to carry it down the hall, the box popped open from the pressure, and the mattress wedged us against the wall in our hallway. With great effort, we got it into the bedroom and onto the flat platform. The box, of course, was toast. At that time, of course, we weren’t considering returning it, and by the time we realized it was the source of my nightly pain, 90 days had passed.

But you’re right. People should still consider buying this mattress. It is their own decision.

In terms of donating it, I am first struck with resentment that I would pay $1500 for something I donated 6 months later - and of course, most charities don’t take used mattresses even if they are expensive, and you can only write off a fair market value, which for used mattress far less than what you paid. But beyond that, how ethical do I personally feel I would be to donate something that is causing me physical pain to a resale where a family with limited means would think they’ve found a deal, only to suffer the same nightly pain.?

By the way, I am not against latex mattresses - I had a latex mattress just prior to this one that I slept on with great comfort for far longer than they said that mattress would last - I bought it in 1996 or 97 and didn’t feel it was losing its touch until late 2014, which is why I bought the Astrabed in mid 2015.

But, I guess your point is well-taken, and other people should order the Astrabed and see how they like it.

Hi HoustonPerson,

I was referring to a donation that was inside their trial period (I didn’t notice that you were past your trial period). Some manufacturers allow their customers to donate their mattress in lieu of returning the mattress which would save the manufacturer the cost of return shipping. Manufacturers that allow this will usually be able to provide you with options where it can be donated. It would be perfectly ethical IMO since your mattress may be a perfect mattress for someone else (and possibly much better than what the person that ends up using it is currently sleeping on). In this case the write off would go to the manufacturer not to you since you would receive a refund. Of course if you are past the return period then this wouldn’t be a realistic option (unless you were feeling particularly charitable) and you may be better off trying to do some “fine tuning” so that you can sleep better on your mattress.

Of course you also sell it on a site like Craigslist but you would probably only receive a relatively small percentage of what you paid for it so it would normally be worthwhile trying to “fix it” first.


Thanks for the clarification. I’ll read through more of your postings to see what you have about how I can fix it, if that is at all possible. I just wish I had known six months ago what I know now - that buying a mattress online is a risk that for me, was an expensive disaster. I thought that for $1500, I would have a nice mattress with years of lovely slumber. I am now going to have to figure out how to fix it, if possible, and pay what additional for that?

But, by the way, I do very much appreciate the information on this site.and only wish I had found it BEFORE I made my mistake.

Thank you.

Hi HoustonPerson,

If you can provide more information about the specific mattress you purchased and some more detailed information about the “symptoms” you are experiencing and whether you believe that it’s too firm or too soft (or whether it’s firmer or softer than your previous latex mattress) then I may be able to make some suggestions.


I purchased the Astrabed style called SerenityBed in a Queen size, with both sides being Medium-Firm and the purchase was made online in early May 2015.

The mattress is way less supportive than “Medium-Firm” - and does not provide enough support to my lower back and hips. I weigh 107 and have not had trouble with any other mattress hurting my lower back. I can sleep on hotel mattresses and an air mattress without pain.

The Astrabed is noticeably firmer if I move over to the very far edge, with part of my buttock and hip just over the side of the bed, but not enough to throw me off balance. I would describe the center of the mattress (on my side and on his) as “sagging.” I actually checked the tag Astrabeds puts at the foot of the bed to see whether it was marked as used - since they take back the mattresses, I don’t know if they re-issue them or at least the latex guts of the mattress to new purchasers, but the tag did not indicate that anything was re-used or re-purposed.

My physical “symptoms” are: pain in my lower back when laying on the mattress which is particularly sharp in the early morning when I’ve been on the mattress a long time and especially upon rising; pain in the hips as I try to roll over, such that I use my arms and hands to roll myself by grabbing the side of the mattress or the arm of my husb. When I wake up, I have to first try to stretch out some of the pain. Sleeping on my side is better than my back, but I have to continually during the night move from one side to the other to reduce the pain of the sag on that side. I am naturally a flat on my back sleeper, so not being able to sleep on my back for 6 months has caused me sleep deprivation, which makes me want to sleep longer, which would result in increased pain in the back/hips if I gave into it. (I’ve started falling asleep on my sofa after dinner and catching a couple of solid, comfortable hours there, before moving to the bedroom.) In my natural state, I prefer sleeping most of the night on my back, with some portion of the night on my stomach. On the Astrabed, I cannot sleep or lie on my stomach at all, because the mattress lacks so much support.

In order to put into perspective why I had trouble identifying the cause of the pain, and that the mattress certainly is the cause, I am a person of appropriate weight and substantial physical conditioning. I weigh 107 and have never been overweight. I have never had a back injury or hip injury. I feel better as the day goes onward, because I’m not laying in the bed. I am a cyclist, runner, and active in other outdoor activities. I don’t experience pain during activities, just when I am trying to sleep on the bed.

I will worship the ground you walk on and this website completely if you can provide me with any guidance that will help me eliminate or even reduce the pain I have on this bed. I know I should have gotten rid of it, but that is so hard to do you’ve paid that much, and you think about trying to haul it back down the hallway, and out the door. I would love an opportunity to fix it, although I realize that will cost money too!

Hi HoustonPerson,

First some of the basics that I link for anyone that is experiencing “symptoms” on their mattress so we are on the same page …

There are no “standard” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.

“Support” is often misunderstood because the goal of a “supportive” mattress is to keep the spine and joints in good alignment and this requires the type of contouring support that allows some parts of the body to sink in more (softer) and some parts of the body to sink in less (firmer) and this will vary on an individual basis and the overall firmness of a mattress isn’t necessarily an indication of how well it will keep your spine and joints in good alignment because it depends on which layers are softer and which layers are firmer. A mattress that is too firm won’t support the more recessed parts of your body (such as the waist or small of the back/lumbar) and a mattress that is too soft won’t support the heavier parts of your body (such as the hips/pelvis).

There are some suggestions in post #4 here that may be helpful for a mattress that is too soft or is sagging but it’s very possible that this could be related to the support system under the mattress (your bedframe and foundation). An all latex mattress will generally do best with a firm, flat, and evenly supportive support surface underneath it that has minimal to no flex under the mattress and for larger sizes with at least one center support beam that has good support to the floor to prevent any sagging in the middle of the mattress. The components need to be strong and durable enough to support the weight of the mattress and the people sleeping on it without some of the parts bending, sagging, or breaking over time. The support surface under the mattress should have enough surface area to prevent the mattress from sagging through any gaps or spaces in the support surface over time but still allow some airflow under the mattress. I would suggest that in a slatted support system that any gaps between the slats are no more than 3" (with 1 x 3 slats) although less than that would be better yet.

You could confirm whether this is an issue by putting your mattress on the floor for a few nights to see if it makes any difference.

Just for reference … returned or exchanged layers or mattresses aren’t resold or reused as new (at least it would be against the law to do so and a reputable manufacturer wouldn’t take the risk of doing so).

While I can’t know for certain … based on your description (and assuming that your support system is suitable for you and the mattress and isn’t the cause of the problem) … the most common cause for lower back pain is a mattress that is too soft and either has comfort layers that are too thick/soft or a support core that is too soft and I would guess that this is what may be happening.

Your mattress is a component mattress which has the advantage of having layers inside it that can be rearranged (or exchanged) to change the level of support or the level of “comfort” and pressure relief.

It would be helpful (if you know) if you could let me know the firmness of each of the three layers in your mattress and the current order of the layers that you are using (I believe the “default” is a softer 2" layer on the bottom, a firmer 3" layer in the middle, and a softer 2" layer on top). If you aren’t sure you can call Astrabeds and ask them about the firmness of the layers in your order. You may also be able to check the relative firmness of each of the layers yourself based on “feel”.

Assuming that both of the 2" layers are the same and are softer (which may or may not be the case) … the first thing I would try is to remove the bottom 2" layer and sleep on the remaining two layers for a few days (the 3" firmer layer on the bottom and the 2" softer layer on the top) and see how it affects your sleeping experience. The two layers will be loose inside the cover but for now the goal is to see how the firmer configuration changes your experience and your back pain when you sleep on your back.